Why does nobody realize that if Trump isolates the US and shows the international community that we don't have their backs, it'll allow China to take the Pacific with their own exclusive multilateral trade deals that lock us out of new markets. You do all know that China already has an extremely strong presence in the Middle East, Africa, and especially Asia, right? If we don't stop their advance, those markets will be unavailable permanently.
You do realize this is all setting us up to get fucked in a way that we'll never be able to fix, right? Once China has these markets and Russia has pushed in, we won't be able to recuperate the trade dominance that gets us that $16 trillion GDP.
American trade is based on domination of other countries through trade and military dependence that's been built over the past century. If we let go of all these things there's no getting that back.
Even if you support Trump you should acknowledge we're in the process of getting locked out, hard, and there won't be any getting back in unless we change course immediately.
>American trade is based on domination of other countries through trade and military dependence that's been built over the past century.
Then perhaps its morally good we isolate ourselves and figure our shit out.
John Price
china isn't ready to soak up all this trade, they don't have the robust consumer economy we have (they have it but only for a small elite class). Russias GDP is too small for them to engage meaningfully in any trade that isn't oil.
So i would agree it would be bad for the US to burn all these bridges, but because the other economies like mexico have nowhere else to go, they are basically forced to deal with the US. Canada is concering in regards to trade with mexico, but we still have a good relationship with mexico and NAFTA so we will see.
Luis Sanders
Don't worry President Trump will be fine.
Isaiah Moore
>it'll allow China to take the Pacific with their own exclusive multilateral trade deals that lock us out of new markets.
“It is possible that US policy could change over time on this, as it has done on other trade deals,” Mr Turnbull told reporters in Canberra, adding that the nominee for US secretary of state Rex Tillerson and Republicans supported the TPP. “There is also the opportunity for the TPP to proceed without the United States. Certainly there is the potential for China to join the TPP.”
“There is also the opportunity for the TPP to proceed without the United States. Certainly there is the potential for China to join the TPP.”
>TPP to proceed without the United States. >there is the potential for China to join the TPP.”
Aiden Torres
This is the part that your not getting. >China has no oil
We're the ones who have boots on the ground in the middle east.
Isaac Wood
You won't think it's morally good when you're jobless and starving. You know what happened last time we pursued isolation? We got our backside handed to us by an aggressive Japan and found ourselves having to fight two wars as our allies got their asses handed to them by the Nazi's.
Do you REALLY want to play that again with the Chinese?
Ian Robinson
>You know what happened last time we pursued isolation?
You were the industrial superpower of the fucking planet and when Japan attacked you, you proceeded to throughly rape their navy in the ass and then turned two of their cities into radioactive wasteland?
GDPs (1938)
Reconstructing World National Products in 1938
The Nominal National Products of the major powers in 1938, in current dollars:
Except WWII worked out really for the US and it worked out really poorly for China. We only got attacked twice on our homeland during the entire war, and they were both relatively minor battles. Meanwhile, entire cities were being razed in China.
We only border two countries, we're very well-positioned to be isolationist if we want to.
Also,
>as our allies got their asses handed to them by the Nazi's
There are a lot of people on Sup Forums who want that to happen again, so you're actually making a really good case for American isolationism.
Elijah Smith
We can't sustain the Middle East. That's a lost cause. Oil is a lost cause. It's time for actual energy independence by promoting renewables.
The thing that people don't get is that most of the problem countries (Saudi Arabia funded ISIS, China, etc.) are problems because we are so oil starved. The most aggressive kind of economic warfare is the one where you can cut off the only way they sustain themselves.
If China takes the TPP, it's gonna be a bad time. The TPP is a pretty huge deal that locks several countries into exclusivity, the terms were decided with the explicit idea of locking China OUT. The idea is that whoever is not in the TPP gets locked out, you do NOT want to be locked out of what's quickly becoming the biggest market.
Yea, but you forget the fact that all those advantages we used to have, we don't have. We don't have more troops, more hardware, all of our best tech is getting stolen and copied daily, the chinese have already the designs for our stealth copters and jets, and both the Russians and Chinese who would likely ally in case of a war, have the ability to hack into our shit and likely shut us down hard.
The ONLY way to win this is economically. You do NOT want to confront these guys in a physical war.
Juan Bailey
>The ONLY way to win this is economically. You do NOT want to confront these guys in a physical war. Wow, sounds scary. Thing is, everyone who actually knows what they're talking about disagrees with you. The American military is leagues ahead of any other nation in the world. China and Russia have crippling strategic disadvatages and Trump is not withdrawing into isolationism militarily. He's actually more aggressive and is trying to undo the gains made by China and Iran under Obama. Doesn't look like those sanctions are getting lifted on Russia either.
Hunter Brown
These sanctions literally just got lifted, and more will be coming. You do realize Trump has a personal interest in Russia succeeding, right? He has a huge stake there, they helped him win the election, he just got a 19% stake for cutting the last bit of sanctions.
In addition, the Iran sanctions were to, again, build economic dependence. If Iran trades with us, we quickly become a massive market, we start becoming their MAIN market, and then they're pacified. It's a much less dangerous and more sucessful plan than whatever war Bannon wants to trigger.
Daniel Gomez
I Know, it's idea was to contain China, but I'm agreeing with your point, that if Trump withdraws and isolates himself he could potentially hand the world to the US's rivals.
For instance I think TPP 2.0 (a deal that our own PM wants! and would be happy to make without the US.) would not be one based on US interests.
“There is also the opportunity for the TPP to proceed without the United States. Certainly there is the potential for China to join the TPP.”
This a quote from our own PM which is amazing that he'd be willing to further distance Australia from the US.
Saying all this however the Trump Iran thing is very smart, I don't like it, but we know that Saudi Arabia and Israel both hate Iran and we both know that Obama really ignored the US Saudi and Israel relationship.
Trump hating on Iran will delight the Saudis and Israel who feel Obama did not pay them enough attention.
Samuel Morgan
chinese are even more consumer oriented than burgers....
the only thing holding them back is they don't have unlimited credit facility from being the world reserve currency. that can change overnight and trump is trying to make it happen for them
Caleb Cooper
>These sanctions literally just got lifted, and more will be coming. You do realize Trump has a personal interest in Russia succeeding, right? He has a huge stake there, they helped him win the election, he just got a 19% stake for cutting the last bit of sanctions. That's incorrect. They have not been lifted.
>In addition, the Iran sanctions were to, again, build economic dependence. If Iran trades with us, we quickly become a massive market, we start becoming their MAIN market, and then they're pacified. It's a much less dangerous and more sucessful plan than whatever war Bannon wants to trigger. Iran's sanctions were lifted when Obama cut a deal. I'm beginning to wonder if you actually have any idea what you're talking about.
Josiah Sanders
China will kill their economy. Trump isnt concerned because it'll happen them what happened to US. And while this process goes on, he'll build his army in preparation because the world will ask to be rescued. He's 10 moves ahead.
James Flores
> muh Russian hacking > M-maybe if we give Iran free things they'll turn peaceful and kawaii like Japan! > Bannon is the real President of the United States
Hello, CTR. Did you enjoy your Christmas break?
Zachary Torres
Wut?
Matthew Brown
The TPP was a bad deal and no revamp of it is going to lock us out of any bilateral trade deals. China is incredibly unpopular on their own continent. There may be some posturing going on from people that he's pressuring, but it's not particularly likely that China will actually successfully fill any void we may or may not leave behind.
Aaron Brown
>concern trolling
Fuck off CTR
Elijah Williams
The "International Community" is a farce. Decadent, self-serving Western values only represent the degenerate Liberals that crowd our cities. Whatever "diversity" they see in it is either from heavily Westernized foreigners or through deception.
>Iran's sanctions were lifted when Obama cut a deal. I'm beginning to wonder if you actually have any idea what you're talking about.
Yes, the sanctions on Iran were lifted to create economic dependence. By warming up relations with a nuclear deal and economic trade, then they become dependent.
I don't know who CTR is but it wasn't to give Iran free things, it was to make Iran trade with us, which we personally don't need but it's the fastest way to pacify a country. Only reason we haven't had it out with China yet is because we're eachother's biggest trade partners.
China is unpopular and so is the US (which is only going to get worse with Trump which most world leaders seem to despise, hence Aussie user from before.)
Considering I didn't know what CTR is until you wrote that, I'm not CTR. Does that organization even exist anymore now that Hillary got her ass handed to her after cheating Bernie?
Jordan Davis
>Oy vey I have no idea what this CTR that gives sheckles for shitposts is!
Shill harder please.
Nicholas Davis
>There may be some posturing going on from people that he's pressuring, but it's not particularly likely that China will actually successfully fill any void we may or may not leave behind.
I don't know if I agree, they are people in the Australian government I think that favour China over the US, look into the China free trade agrement, and look into the port of Darwin sale.
Also who leaked this phone call that embarrassed trump .
I think something else is going on.
Remember that a third! of Australia exports go to china whilst only 5% go to the US.
Tyler Lopez
I actually think Trump would be smart to lift the sanctions and ease up on Russia.
China settled it's territorial disputes with Russia after the fall of the USSR because one it realised it couldn't fight Russia and the US and two the dissolution of the USSR solved some border disputes.
It's time for the US to do the same thing and work on relations with Russia, they can't fight both China and Russia, also Europe/The EU is not a faithful ally, only a handful of European nations have made and reached the commitment to spend 2% of GDP on defense. with the UK soon to leave the EU, the EU could possibly fragment (wait and see elections this year) solving some border disputes with Russia.
Jonathan Rodriguez
Most white people forget how much Asians hate each other.
Even when Mao was still alive and Vietnam was true Communist, Communist Chinese and Communist Vietnamese still regularly clashed and killed each other.
I seen some liberals suggest Japan is going to start falling in love with China or something.
Jonathan Ross
Strengthening Russia would be a bad time. Remember what happened last time we strengthened Russia with trade? It was after the Cold War and Russia was desperate for money and completely broken up, we started doing business and... now we're in this mess.
The only good Russia is a weak Russia. Don't trade with them, cut them off.
Luis Carter
I just feel that Europe is a useless ally for the US to have, and they need to develop more dependable alliances.
Sebastian Long
Europe is a very useful ally. Europe altogether creates the second largest GDP, behind us by 2T. Their technology is extremely valuable and population wise they're a massive market.
Basically it's a giant massive block of disposable income that loves buying our shit.
Jace Perry
Not gonna lie, former trump voter here. This is fucking hilarious watching trump crash and burn. But in all seriousness we can't let this guy get the nuclear codes.
Gavin Gray
Yeah but they don't seem to be carrying the same weight as the US does militarily, look at how many countries have made that 2% of gdp commitment.
Leo Foster
Dude, that's insanity. It seems like you have ignored a lot of things by making those remarks.
America can afford isolationism. Globalization is something fairly new, if you didn't realize it yet. As long as the oil is backed by the dollar, nothing can fuck the U.S. long term. Every single country that doesn't go by american rules and drops the petro dollar fucks itself up, see iraq, venezuela, and now iran.
If anything, if the U.S stops immigration, de-islamize itself, and start bringing jobs back, it will actually become more competitive instead of keeping getting ripped off by china on trade.
The U.S. will become a bigger player on trade, diplomacy, and anything else.
Also, you have to realize that not everything runs around economics. The west has a huge social problem that has been the elephant in the room for a long time, and things have only got this bad because there are tons of people like you that think that everything is all about economics. It's not. There's a need for searching an equilibrium in the between. And that's what not only the united states, but also the whole west will find once trump's policies get it right and become a role model for prosperity to the countries that had been affected by globalism in a negative way.
Caleb Harris
Annex Canada, Mexico, Cuba, and other shit islands. Start Hitlerizing minus the Aryan dream. Too many nigs and spics for that paradise.
Russia takes Crimea. Why not do the same? Let Canada do a (((referendum))) to (((join))) the U.S.
Crafty Jews will work out the details.
Caleb Walker
superpower China is a result of globalization
>implying China would be colonizing the planet without the help of US and Nixon since the 70s Nixon literally created superpower China and the US continued to transfer the wealth and future of the west to China would china be what it is today solely based on china's abilities and without western transfer of wealth and technology?
US is China's greatest ally. if it was not for the US, China would still be a country based on subsistence farming. US literally created superpower China... Nixon birthed superpower China and the US continued to transfer the wealth and future of the west to China china would not be what it is today solely based on china's abilities and without western transfer of wealth and technology
China's rise was due to a transfer of wealth from the west.
>murica transfer of wealth/technology/industry to poor rural china >murica create power strong china >murica claim a strong china a problem >murica plans on fighting strong china with totalitarian TTP eroding more citizen rights >not creating a scapegoat to implement totalitarianism
the power brokers transferred: -literally all the financial funds of US workers to China, -transferred technology and jobs to China -hyperinflated the housing so that only the Chinese (recipients of western funds) could afford the housing
the transfer of funds was done involuntarily without the consent of the owners of the funds the power brokers took western funds sitting in banks and invested all of that in China.
all that wealth transfer was from your pockets. the private funds in bank accounts, the housing assets, the jobs, all transferred by corporate USA without your agreement...
Michael Diaz
Was it worth it? Kek
Daniel Diaz
Muh economy.
Muh China is so strong
Muh eggrolls.
Communism is so great isn't it. Too bad their eyes are burning, they're living in a post-apocalyptic movie with having to constantly wear face masks, they've cut 20 years off their lifespan and they're all depressed.
Jose Evans
Oh noooo. They can't breathe. Teehee
Jordan Watson
This is what happens when your country is experiencing an indutrial revolution.
Which makes me ask, is Climate change a hoax pushed by the US to stunt the economic growth of rival powers?
Ryan Baker
We know (((why))) they rose to power
Kayden Robinson
Every sane person with a little education can see that. Insano-daddy-trump-cuckaloids refuse to for whatever reason.
Owen Cook
What most don't realize is that so far US has been bending over backwards for these "deals" and China is a scum who will suck your blood dry before giving any "deal".
Dominic Sanders
you have no idea how the global economy or economics or politics or anything works do you?
Ayden Foster
who cares just take me in already
Gavin Brown
>China will lock us out of the markets
WRONG
They want as much money as they can get, and therefore theyd want to include the US in the trade deals
Ryder Cook
If it was, why do most fixes involve the us and already industrialized countries crippling their own economic might?
Asher Fisher
>America is based on domination fix'd
Gabriel Walker
If you know all this why can't you get on Tucker vice 4chinz? Fuck china. we good.
Wyatt Gutierrez
>Why does nobody realize that if Trump isolates the US
Stopped right there. He is not isolationist. If he were isolationist, he wouldn't be reaching out to foreign entities and committing trade deals, and he would be shuttering the State Department.
With that said, he will be cutting down the size of the State Department, and it has been duly needed.
Nathan Taylor
We goaded Japan into attacking us because our leaders wanted nothing to do with isolationism and were hoping to heat up WW2 some more.
Jackson Miller
Yes, an industrial revolution at any cost is totally worth it.
It's like some weird sci-fi movie reality where they're living on a hostile planet and can't breathe the atmosphere.
The Chinese don't have time to think about climate change because they can't breathe. If I permanently had a face mask on and was praying for death, I wouldn't give a fuck about climate change.
But to answer your question: I don't think it's a hoax. The only thing I'm really curious about is the exact extent human involvement is increasing climate change. If we knew with 100% certainty everything. That's the last piece many deniers are hanging onto.
Levi Walker
>neocons still think the US can maintain a position of superiority solely by expending billions of dollars and thousands of lives to keep every other country down, while ignoring any sort of progress and innovation at home
Samuel Ross
Because allowing the US to foot the military bill means that these countries don't have to invest sizeable amounts of their tax dollars into a military that would get wiped out anyways in an attack. NATO allows them to invest in their people, their people invest in US products, and the US invests in NATO.
Michael Kelly
Just add amendment, that allows people to have all the rights of citizens of USA, when their contract cases are reviewed in american courts.
This will effectively kill all TPP, WTO and etc.
Now it`s a separate authority only because foreigners are not subject of local laws. And UN is there too, because nobody gives foreigners and even "basic human rights".
You wont do it, because america only has power trough force and protectionism. If there would be anything market-like, Russia would be at the top and China would be right after us.
Jordan Cooper
because they are already industrialized and developed. places like Brazil, Indonesia, India, Nigeria etc are not. wouldn't it be in the now dominant powers interest to keep this as the status quo?
Aaron Walker
It didn't need to if we'd switch to better forms of power a long time ago. Its big money being in the oil business, getting everyone to rely on the petrol dollar means you've got the world's balls in your grip. If we had switched to complete nuclear power in the 60s we would even have all this shit going on in the Middle East.
Carter Carter
wouldn't have all this shit going on*
Adrian Reyes
>lock us out of new markets. corporations are multinational dumbass, multinational (nationless) corps.
the people of the US dont benefit from trade as US is self-sufficient and can produce all the shit as it once did pre-60s (pre-globalization)
the multinational corporations do not employ Americans, they employ foreigners/immigrants so American populace will not be affected
China has only benefitted from US trade while the cheap shit being imported from China does not negate the rise in housing, oil, energy, food prices that increased as a result of China's globalization
tl;dr fuck off CREW shill
Luis Clark
>Russia would be at the top of a big american cock
Eli Cruz
> believing the isolationism meme
John Hall
>If we had switched to complete nuclear power in the 60s we wouldn't even have all this shit going on in the Middle East.
Can you imagine a middle east where there main export is regarded as useless. I actually think the Middle east would be in a much worse situation if it wasn't for oil.
Gabriel Martin
Just think about what they keep under wraps still. Thermonuclear Tokamaks are last decade's news in comparison.
Owen Perez
>Middle east would be in a much worse situation good
Jordan Thomas
They'd be in a bad situation, but not because of us. We wouldn't be sending in troops or funding militias for nothing. They can just shit all over themselves by themselves to themselves and we'd have nothing to do with it.
Gabriel Phillips
that's not good they are on your border,I imagine there would be loads of economic refugees,
David Ramirez
Australia won't be able to convince Japan to join any TPP 2.0 agreement.
A Japanese politician that would cater to China would be political suicide in his country.
Also, if you read the news, Japan is preparing to go all out with Trump by presenting a big economic draft package.
Tell me how TPP 2.0 can work without Japan, the world's third largest economy?
