Free will is an illusion

Most people deny it because once your realize that you are living off a script that you have no "real" control of your life pretty much means nothing. There is no difference between existing and not existing. People are afraid of that.
Everything you decide to do (including this post) is completely determined by everything that has lead to that point. It's pretty simple really. Many people can't see through this illusion and hence think that it is them deciding. Let's a very powerful being could froze time now and could analyze ever nanosecond of your life, your body - every little chemical every little atom, the universe you live in that being can calculate your next sentence, next thought. That my friends is the proof that you are an automaton and have no such thing called "free will" in your system. Nothing in this universe is truly random, so why would your mind be?

Why ask that question if the answer doesn't matter?

It couldn't be correct in a determinist universe anyway it would just, be.

You're right. Determinism is the final redpill... in a system with perfect information and enough processing power you can predict everything.

Determinism is a misleading word, but yes, free will is an illusion.

If free will were NOT an illusion, artificial intelligence would not be possible. But it is, so free will does not. The only difference between a human and a robot is the complexity of its programming.

We're sort of trick by our observations of the present. We see the ordered sequence of events in the past. They are cannot be altered.

The future is an eventual ordered sequence of that becomes static, it literally becomes the past. We mistake ignorance of the future as the capacity to make choices and thus meaningfully affect the future, but this is an illusion.

free will exists you just have to learn how to control yourself to use it. not an easy task for you spastic fucks i'm sure

Was this post meant to be, from the beginning of time?

There was literally never the possibility that it wasn't--because, guess what? It has come to pass!

>Free will isn't real so I made a post on the internet to convince people they have no free will.

Right, and he made the choice to post it.

Nothing to do with politics, might as well sage and post porn

You're refusing to acknowledge the unbroken and utterly inflexible sequence of past events that lead up to the post's creation; a sequence that is absolutely dependent upon ever other event in the series to produce the post itself.

You're forgetting about the pico-war being waged between the giggakike quarks and the aryan strings.

You just said, in another thread, that your shit hypothesis was non-deterministic. How then, do all things leading up to point x in plane determine shit

You're failing to acknowledge that by engaging in debate with me about free will you acknowledge it's existence.

If my opinion is determined than debate is useless.

The past has nothing to do with free will it's the choices you make now. They just happen to be affected by previous life experiences.

thats proof enough for me.

He believes that consciousness can projected over other dimensions. But it is just another function of the slopes that timelines make on a plane

Based Nihilism

The only difference between anything can be interpreted as a difference of complexities. Disgusting shill.

>You're failing to acknowledge that by engaging in debate with me about free will you acknowledge it's existence.

Literally untrue. I never had a choice in the matter. The past is the future and individuals are incapable of deviating from that inexorable linear order.

If you don't know what's going to happen, what is the actual difference?

You aren't getting it. I can feel, comprehend that I fucking exist. I, exist. I exist, or do I? No, we do not exist, we are simply a lot of packing peanuts glued together that managed to fool ourselves into thinking we exist. How many brain cells precisely, how many atoms can you exactly 100% definitively say make up me. How many? How many could you remove, alter before I became someone else? If my mind is constantly changing cells rewriting neural pathways, adding new memories, is it perhaps possible that every last waking second, the current version of me dies and is replaced by another me? Fear of death meaningless purely because I have already died a billion deaths and continue to die as even while I type this out, atoms and cells in my brain making up be rearrange beyond my control, potentially changing me without my authority or consent. If you create a perfect exact copy of someone down to the last molecule, who is the actual one? Is it the first one? They both have the same memories? Are they in a shared concious existance, or seperate?

And really, how do you define being, being alive. Being concious. How do you describe it, put it into words.

No. Quantum mechanics

How many proxies do you use.

What is chaos theory

Your in the same house why don't you come down here and fucking stop me? I just heard you swear from down stairs, you don't want these people to have a chance? You been on here for years as well, come up the fucking steps and stop me.

>Literally untrue

So some unseen force took control of your body to make that specific post at that specific time to satisfy the universe?

I fail to see how you can honestly believe in determinism.

Alcoholics have no choice in the matter? Fat people?

Or they are just robots fulfilling a certain extremely specific checklist of actions before ceasing to exist?

Explain it to me like I'm retarded, because maybe I am.

Nothing wrong with the illusion of freedom, faggot.
The illusion of hunger makes me want food, so i eat and then im full and happy.

Determinism is disproven by quantum mechanics, so no

If you can fool yourself into thinking you exist then you exist.


Consciousness is self recognition.

A cow cannot recognize itself in a mirror because it is not self aware.

0, why would I use any proxies?

Artificial intelligence as you are likely imagining it is not yet (publicly) implemented, and if it were, it would be indistinguishable from free will as humans have it. Read up on chaos theory and feedback loops

>but hunger is just a series of unbroken events from the past that can't be broken so you'll always be hungry no matter what you do, and you can't do anything because you don't have free will anyway

Read this, fag-faces

If you were teleported into the middle of Africa right now you would stop wasting your time on this retarded philosophy and start looking for essential survival items immediately.

All of determinism is degenerate trash that can only form under the most extreme conditions of hedonism and minimal connection to the consequences of the physical world. It's braindead nothingness used to justify said hedonism that quickly dissolves when the biological reality of an organism is revealed once more.

Because people slip in Freudian fashion sometimes

Unless you can create a program able to predict scripted events then it doesn't really matter considering I certainly can't in my everyday life assuming predestiniation is how life works.

>the autism intensifies.

>The final redpill is that you have no freewill

So you're telling me that the final redpill is that you're a robot?

Get real.

>Sup Forums - nihilism and quantum mechanics

That has been proven to be untrue, such program is not material

>69 posts by this ID

Hehehhee. I heart you, user

He lies to himself.

He functions like he has free will and believes it in his heart but his conscious brain tells him he's smarter if he believes in determinism.

I'd get it if he were arguing for a centrist point of view or even just against free will, but to argue FOR determinism is retarded, especially on a board that pushes individualism and self fulfillment so hard.

This goes through my head every day. I just try to ignore it and play along.

I could stand at a fork in the road for hours deciding left or right. Whatever I picked though is predetermined anyways.

>live in indetermistic universe
>shit just happens randomly
>whether or not that ol' neuron fires to make you ask the qt you're in love with out on a date is just a matter of random quantum shit, your decisions may as well be decided by dice roll
>this is called "free will" by OP

Is it?

If it is predetermined why waste time on the debate of which way to go?

I want to believe.
Also check 'em.

That's probably pretty accurate but we'll never know.

You fail to grasp the bigger picture. Every chemical reaction in your body, though and feeling you've had until now and will have in the future was predetermined at the universes conception. Just as an apple will fall to the ground your existance will forfill its destiny inevitably. Only we cant predict what your destiny is given the complexity of the cosmos.

Determinism is an illusion, friend.

Literally nothing proves it right or wrong. It's self contained and paradoxical, identical to free will in every way.

Why then do you question whether it is true or not?

Listen to your heart's heart. The answer lies there.

Do you believe in a soul?

>unseen force

That's partially true, we are limited observers and can't grasp the entire spectrum of preceding events that determine the vast array of outcomes in the world around us.

Heredity is a really good example. We understand that organisms express the traits they've inherited from their ancestors. Can we account for every variation? Every gap in the fossil record? Every event that lead to the existence of matter and energy in the first place? Of course not! In that way, we are shaped by unseen forces by virtue of our limits as observers.

We see the future as a mutable series of events because our capacity for forethought is anchored in the present. If we could remove ourselves from the present, we would see the entire spectrum of events through time as a kind of film strip. Each frame of film depicts event in a linear order, but that doesn't depend at all upon the perspective of the observer.

There is a kind of retroactive continuity at work. If the future could be changed, we would have no concept of the past whatsoever. It would be in flux! I think we can agree that the past is immutable, barring the invocation of time travel.

What does this mean? It means that at no point do you have a choice. If you did, the whole of history would be eligible for alteration. Things happen the way the do because there was literally never the possibility that they could be different, the possibility of divergence breaks the entire sequence of history.

No, fuck off.

wb radioactive decay

So my coworker getting a DUI and then quitting liquor was determined at the Big Bang?

Before biology even existed our lives were determined?

lel faggot
i am not this human meat bag
i am an entity outside the confines of this dimension who observes the meat bag , get it minge bag?

also once of you faggots from amerca bought netflix nd pizza on my cc not amused boys ( cali )

Do you believe in Truth? The notion that underlying any knowledge there is a perfect but immaterial/intangible essence to it?

>tfw too intelligent to believe in free will

That's all very nice in the way I think religion is nice. I wish I could have faith like that.
But I believe in my heart of hearts that this is all some simulation playing over and over. Nothing changes and I can't change it.

It is a bit chicken and the egg though

Well if this life is really scripted, I would give three keks to the faggot who decided that I would fap 3x daily to gang bang BBC and shame myself for my 5.5" standard whiteboy issue.

See my post? You faggots looking at this shitty post? This is destiny. I didn't even choose to make a shitty post. It's just happening!

U know , nihilism ain't so bad. Now I feel important like I'm fulfilling something.

Yes. Its just so complex and vast an interraction that no man can predict it.

Ah, fatalism. Makes a lot of sense tbvqh, but it's just semantics. We have freewill, but we don't. All at the same time.

...

No.

Lol yes!

Wrong. I make decisions every day. I couldn't give two shits if the universe influence my choices. No shit it does. But I still make my choices. Fuck off with your pseudo intellectual analysis

How do you know the future already exists?

>being this uninitiated

And then you wonder why the elites think of you as cattle.....

Then how can assert anything other than your opinion?

Non-sequitur, just because time is linear and previous experiences affect your decision doesn't mean you never had a decision.

Your brain is making your fingers post these replies and it is you controlling your brain wether you like it or not.

If determinism were a thing this debate wouldn't even exist.

>NUGSFrEd
Has spoken

>not understanding the random nature of quantum mechanics

>If determinism were a thing this debate wouldn't even exist.

It was determined to happen

>Guys we should let the elites control us, after all we don't have free will!

Intelligence is not the same as consciousness

I didn't choose the conditions of my birth nor how my brain was initially structured, so that was predetermined. I didn't choose the experiences I encountered during the first moment of my life, so that and all the changes that resulted in my brain must be predetermined. So if my state then is predetermined, then why would the next not be? And the next one and one after that?

The brain is an amazingly complex structure. It is unmatched in it's ability to observe, understand and synthesize information, but it can only work with the input it's taken and the connections it's built. Even if that wasn't the case, the only alternative to a structured system is randomness, and that's hardly better.

It may sound hard to live with the idea that we aren't free, but I don't mind. It has little impact in the way I live my life; even if my path is predetermined, it's still uncertain. Physics prevents us from knowing every minute detail about the universe, so free will's existence is of little relevance looking forward. Where it does benefit me is understanding the decisions of others, or rather how I deal with the fact I can't.

I don't get where people get this idea that quantum mechanics disproves determinism.

This is why determinism is an illusion. The fact that human must go through the process of rationalizing a decision before executing it is evidence for free will. If determinism were valid, then mankind would behave as if it were on a track that changes direction fluently, without having to weigh out pros and cons of certain paths. Having the absolute control over making a decision and what happens thereof is not pre-determined as past events can not be guaranteed to have influence on that decision. We can't know, because we can't travel back in time and formulate our actions differently and see how it pans out then, and even if we could, we wouldn't be able to travel back in time without consciously knowing that we traveled back to see if events panned out differently.

Quantum mechanics is still deterministic, we just don't understand what determines certain processes yet

So basically what you're saying is that this get has been around 14 billion years in the making.

Free will let me skip reading your post after the first sentence.
What do you think about that you cheeky bastard

Thats how the world is. A solid opinion can function without a higher power proping it up.

What are you getting at?

Prove it.

Only faggots call this idea determinism. It's called fatalism by intelligent people. Bet you faggots won't even @ me though.

It was determined.

And this will happen again and again

YOU FUCKING THIEF REEEEEE

Why?

That's a nice opinion you have. Without truth you cannot argue one way or another without admitting you have no logical base. But of course that's just an opinion to you.

Clearly Kek shines upon my good nature and self control

If you think that decision making is made in some little bubble separate from your deterministic brain then I think this conversation is a little too complex for you my friend, maybe sit his one out lol.

prove it

The fuck is the difference? It's the same concept isn't it?

give me a quick rundown

Some quantum mechanical processes are genuinely random.

You understand this isn't an argument for determinism, right?

An user and you could go back and forth all day saying that they chose it and you didn't.
You haven't proven your claim yet, but these guys keep trying to disprove it.

This is just like the God arguments all over again.

This all ultimately comes down to a matter of opinion.

>decisions of others

What decisions?

They don't decide anything, it's all scripted remember?

Seriously though there is a difference between something effecting your brain and something controlling it.

Two children can grow up with an alcoholic father, one an alcoholic and one not. Both of them will use their father as the justification for this.

>My dad was a drunk I had a bad childhood I can't help it

>My dad was a drunk I had a bad childhood so I won't let that happen to my kids

I'd like to hear your opinion.

Pumping lemma you sicko

How do you have a solid opinion without truth?