What is the point of abolishing kids labor in countries like malasyia and china for a minimal pay if it means that they...

what is the point of abolishing kids labor in countries like malasyia and china for a minimal pay if it means that they will end up in the street with no pay at all?

Do you really need to ask this question?
Rich liberals in the western world want to virtue signal so they can show all their friends how they care about impoverished strangers they've never met.

The argument generally is that child labour does not end up being a transition stage and that if you allow child labour to do so it will just persist indefinitely.

Thins answers understands very little of the developing world and is symptomatic of rich reactionaries in the Western world wanting to virtue signal so they can show all their friends how little they care about impoverished strangers they've never met.

i have this obligatory forced labor presentation that i got to attend, and need to ask some questions about this.

i dont see why they want to remove any form of work for the unemployed for the sake of they are getting paid dirt compared to the west.

can you give me some more gems that i can drop on them during the Q/A period?

>i dont see why they want to remove any form of work for the unemployed for the sake of they are getting paid dirt compared to the west.
Again, it's because the only way to morally justify it that sits with the liberal cosmopolitan values that our countries ostensibly stand for is that these frankly exploitative working conditions are merely a "transition" stage, that these economies are "developing," that things are shit now but they will get better if we let the exploitation continue long enough.

Unfortunately, this doesn't always happen in the real world and where it has happened it has tended to happen despite - not because of - the exploitation. Take for example many African countries whose economies are practically run by the IMF and World Bank on this logic of free trade and development whose economic prosperity is backsliding instead of increasing.

The great, lauded example of a bad situation getting better is, of course, China, but there's a big difference between how China developed its economy and how neoliberal international organisations like the World Bank are trying to develop African economies.

>you can't compare the economy of the west and malaysia
>child labor is a transation stage to a more sprut growing economy

this is what i salvaged from this thread.

The first part is correct.

The second part is extremely debatable. To stop child labour you have to have adults whose work is valuable enough that they can afford to have children who aren't working, but to do that you need to educate your adults and develop your industry. How are you going to educate your adults if they're all busy working in factories instead of learning at school? How are you going to develop your industry when the only thing people are qualified for is operating machinery imported from overseas? Far from aiding in developing an economy, child labour could very well contribute to trapping economies in poverty.

>but banning child labour just means that families lose a source of income!
Correct as well. Ideally you'd be able to subsidise those families from the public purse but virtually no country that is so poor that child labour is a problem has the coffers to fund that, and no Western country wants to be on the hook for that kind of expenditure.

There is no easy answer to this problem. People have been trying to fix Africa and other poor countries around the world for decades. It's not as simple as banning or allowing child labour.

>then what should we do?
Nothing.

Western decadence is predicated on an exploitable underclass.

But I'm a realist at heart and that's not going to sit well with your forced labour presenters or any cuties in the audience if you tell them to shove their humanitarian garbage back up the asshole it originated from like the shit it is.

If you want to fix poor countries it's going to take a LOT of money, and a LONG time.

is there anywhere we can chat?

like a chatroom or such, i would love to hear more from you man, are you up to it mate?

gaaaayyyyyyy

No don't leave I'm interested!

I actually have a doctor's appointment in half an hour (though it'll get pushed back because the surgeon is always running late) so not really unfortunately. If you've got any questions I can answer them in the thread though.

I'm not an expert on this by any means, but I've done a couple courses on it as part of my degree.

They need to fix their fucking country???

alright nigger

might go in more in-depth in the solution?

>in the street with no pay at all?
Population control

and/or (before you go) explain the banks roll in all of that

Child labour happens when adults don't make enough to maintain a family. This happens either because there's not enough work, because work doesn't pay enough, or because the adult can't work. Child labour is (obviously) a fundamentally economic problem. If you fix poor economies child labour will naturally wither away because no parent would send their child to the factory instead of the school if they had any possible choice.

So worrying about child labour at all is really missing the big picture. You cannot fix child labour in isolation because of the lose-lose situation I described earlier.

The question really is: why are poor countries poor (and how can we make them not poor)? There are a whole bunch of answers and all of them are somewhat correct. They range from the obvious (it's a tiny country in a shithole desert with nothing of value therein) to the less obvious, for example what we call the "resource curse". Imagine you're an African country with billions of billions of dollars of oil, diamonds, rare minerals, whatever. Great, right? You'll be rich, and the economy will boom! Except that doesn't happen - instead Western multinationals buy exclusive rights from corrupt governments and build fortified compounds while funding organised crime protection rackets and exporting your wealth to the first world while contributing exactly zero to the standard of living of the average African - your resources become a "curse" that only serves to destabilise your nation. A lot of the worst-off countries are landlocked too and surrounded by unstable neighbours. Basically, shit's fucked on every conceivable level. At every point in the economy there are problems.

How to fix?

More to follow in my next post.

>factories go out of business.
>children working there either starve to death and die or find a new way of life.
>they never reproduce to make more factory workers the economy cant support.
??? what seems to be the problem

How to fix?

Firstly, stable government is a fucking must. Literally nothing can be fixed without stable government coming first. Sadly, this is also the thing that is virtually impossible to fix. International organisations don't have the power to fix this and states like the USA, the UK, France, etc. have no interest in fixing it. It would cost a shitton of money. It would cost lives - and not black ones. White lives. And it would be illegal. In international relations the concept of sovereignty is king, and whoever is the government (whether they are Hitler or a philosopher king) is the vessel of that sovereignty. If you're Nwabudike "eats the hearts of babies in his gold plated palace while the people starve" Morgan, do you want the US in your country civilising it and explicitly attacking your power? Of course not, so you tell them to get fucked and short of a chapter 7 intervention under the UN charter there's pretty much nothing they can do. And, even if the stars aligned and there was a state big enough to be able to help, an African government that wanted help, and a well-managed and executed plan for help, why would the helper help? At the end of all that effort what do you get out of it? Nothing. It's no benefit to the helper because if they're big enough to help they're big enough to just do the Western imperialist thing and build fortified corporate compounds around whatever they want to buy and just buy it off the corrupt government.

The good news is that progress is being made in the form of training African armies to new standards of professionalism through the UN (Africans love sending their Armies to the UN because the UN will foot the bill of soldiers and those soldiers actually get good training and experience out of it) while supporting democratic reformers inside Africa. But this has equal odds of sparking a military coup or a civil war between democrats and loyalists. It's a bloody route.

And this is just step one.

>Thins answers understands very little of the developing world and is symptomatic of rich reactionaries in the Western world wanting to virtue signal so they can show all their friends how little they care about impoverished strangers they've never met.
Negative.
We're independent countries, foremost, our priorities are our own countries first.
While ethically, it would seem, that children working is unsound, it fits their culture.
You're attacking their culture, not the notion of them being "developing nations".
Spout your radical neo-liberal garbage elsewhere.

After stable government is achieved it's just a case of following sensible economic policy - government investment in infrastructure and education, narrowing the gap between rich and poor, attracting foreign investment, blah blah blah. But the lack of all of these things puts even stable government on the precipice of sliding back into instability. If I have a stable government in a country that is wildly unequal then it's only a few months away from becoming a kleptocracy again.

As far as banks go, they're the ultimate cunts in this situation. I'm talking of course about our good friends at the IMF and the World Bank. These neoliberal "charitable organisations" have exported neoliberal economics since the 1970s. What does neoliberalism say? Trickle-down economics and free trade, of course. Leaving aside whether it works in developed countries, it definitely doesn't work in Africa. These countries have fucking nothing. No schools, no roads, no running water. Somebody needs to build that shit and private investment doesn't cut it - and I can say that for a fact because it's been tried and it HASN'T cut it. Nobody wants to invest in a shithole. People point to what China's doing and that's a step in the right direction, but China is the one doing it! Not the IMF. Not the World Bank.

Basically the IMF and World Bank have told poor countries for 40 years to sit tight and permit the rape of their natural resources and the steady inflow of cheap imports that destroys any chance of home-grown industry, and then things will magically get better.

Imagine you are Moses the shoe-maker. You make shoes and sell them in the village. You take a loan and buy tools to make better shoes and make even more money, enough to send you kid to school instead of work.

What's that? Can you hear it?

BEEP BEEP. IT'S THE NIKE IMPORT TRUCK WITH A CONTAINER FULL OF SHOES MADE IN BANGLADESH FOR FRACTIONS OF A CENT. Or worse, the UN giving them out for fucking free.

Anyway, that's about all I know off the top of my head about the situation.

Still taking questions for a bit longer.

Oh yeah and obviously child labour goes down if you have things like functioning healthcare that keeps adults in work instead of forcing them to drop out of the workforce due to preventable illnesses, and so on.

so when they spew out their comparisons and feelings, I can say about that they are so many missing variables that you don't take into account to fit your narrative, and recite your and my words into the argument.

unless I missed something I think I have more than enough to have a basis in this.

Thanks, my fellow emu!

How can we have fair trade with a country that can beat us on prices because they don't have a minimum wage and use child labor? They have an unfair advantage.

thx for the read, good posts

Question: Can't we just let the Chinese colonize them and civilize the resulting 2nd world afro-asian empire?

Yes and no. You can't fix Africa's problems without fixing Africa, but at the same time you can mitigate the harm caused by these problems. For example, if child labour is caused by a parent being unable to work then a charity that sets up a support network for the sick and hurt to enable children to be able to continue to go to school while the household is on no income is helpful. Even if just a bit.

International organisations have no real ability to fix Africa anyway. It's not like they could be doing anything else. All they can really aspire to is dampening the suffering while the world waits for big Western nations to (once again) shoulder the white man's burden.

But be very careful because the history of Africa is one of Western countries rolling and and fucking shit up and then bailing without fixing it. If you look at African countries you find a lot of borders that are straight lines. That's a give-away indicator that some fat Western cartographer was just parcelling out land with no rhyme or reason and no consideration given to the people who lived there. Suddenly tribes and nations that had been enemies for as far back as verbal history goes in Africa were expected to co-operate in a parliamentary democracy set up in 6 months during the Colonial Office's full retreat from colonialism in the post-war period? Doomed from the start. If you try and characterise it as "Africa's fault" you will get slapped down, and at least partially rightly so. The Western world has been fucking up that continent for over a century, and although people on Sup Forums will laud all the hospitals and schools the West built there it's a shame that nowhere near as much attention was paid by Western powers to building stable, responsible government.

Question is, can the West be blamed for not achieving the impossible?

We could, but that would pave the way for Chinese hegemony. Unless you want to live under a Chinese World Order you better stop them.

Okay, I'm heading off to the doctor's now.

Remember kids: university is not jewish brainwashing and you actually do learn things there.

Pic related is more cool Africa info from some other user.