I don't understand you niggers

I don't understand you niggers.

>Immigrants are taking our jobs!
>YEAH!
>BUILD A WALL!
>PUT TARIFFS ON CHINA
>BRING INDUSTRY BACK TO AMERICA!
>MAGA!

but then you turn around and say

>Get rid of the department of education!
But the problem is that the DoE is the backer for financial aid for college. While the current financial aid system is shit and puts people into debt, at least it gives people from poor families a CHANCE at social mobility You take away that, and they still won't be able to afford to work their way through school (the problem that got the DoE started to begin with), so just less Americans will be able to go to college, meaning:

>Less qualified American workers
>Employers still need people with college degrees and certifications and licenses for professional positions
>Hire more H1B Visas

So yeah okay you want to get factory jobs back, while having poo in loos and Filipinos take good paying technical jobs and jobs that require degrees?

Lemme guess
>Ban H1B Visas!

Now we just have a shortage of qualified professional workers. So how the fuck do you fill all those vacancies with qualified people, when fewer and fewer people can afford to GET those qualifications necessary for the job?

Other urls found in this thread:

businessinsider.com/we-now-know-more-about-how-newark-schools-partially-squandered-mark-zuckerburgs-100-million-donation-2015-10
nytimes.com/2015/04/05/opinion/sunday/the-real-reason-college-tuition-costs-so-much.html
youtube.com/watch?v=geSWUhomSWU
twitter.com/SFWRedditGifs

Sup Forums has NEVER been for true stability. They just want to watch the world burn.

>public schools give people a chance at social mobility
wow, it's like you've never been to a public school in your life.

>he supports publics schools
Sorry dequan, not paying for that shit

Fpbp

This

We're talking about Financial Aid for College, which is what the Federal Department of Education does. Subsidized student loans? Pell Grants? That's Department of Education. If that's gone, so are those and low income families can't qualify for regular educational loans through banks (ones your parents have to cosign, and if you default your parents end up paying it back)

>the current system is awful but we shouldn't make changes to it, instead we should just let it continue to be awful
Annnnnnd there you have in a nutshell why America is a god damn mess.

Make changes but just wiping it completely off the slate isn't making it a change or making anything better.

American workers aren't going to be able to compete with people from foreign countries that offer college education for free, and your fucking suggestion is to have White Americans be blue collar workers while our white collar jobs are staffed by Immigrants.

Fantastic.

How else are you going to get qualified people? Lower the qualifications? So that we have the shittiest doctors and techs in the world because none of them actually went to medical school?

Public schools are bullshit.

They didn't try to teach the poor kids math or science. Worked at a public school.

They just imported Jewish and Asian kids to a school in the ghetto to improve test scores in the area.

Put school in minority area. Offer AP and honors classes to the Asian and White/Jewish kids bused in from the other side of town.

Everything about big city public schools is a sham.

Teachers and admin game the system to protect their job.

This, the DoE is corrupt as fuck and this is at the expense of America's students.

There is no reason it should exist.

Even European and Japanese approaches to education are too radical for the academic bureaucracies in charge of educating kids.

Cutting off high school at grade 10 and making grades 11 and 12 the equivalent of 2 years at a JC is too radical.

Jesus fuck do any of you retards read? You're not making the best case for private schools considering none of you seemed to read that this thread is about college financial aid.

STATE governments do K-12. The Federal Department of Eduation has VERY LITTLE to do with K-12 education, just the standardized testing and the bastardization that is common core and some regulations to ensure accomodations are made for students with disabilities.

I think we ALL agree common core needs to go.

What I want to talk about is:

How the fuck do we get people qualified to fill job vacancies with high education/certification requirements if we make it so that less people are able to go to college by eliminating the DoE and its guaranteed student loans program?

I haven't heard a single relevant suggestion yet.

Explain why and how they are corrupt, BS and a sham?

>Stem shortage
>existing

lol

H1Bs only exist to lower the wages of domestic american workers

Honestly if there was any justice in the world anyone shilling for mass immigration, in any country, would be shot on sight.

All the money is wasted on bullshit administration with no results

Zuckercuck once gave them 100 bazillion dollars and they blew it all on crack and hookers.

businessinsider.com/we-now-know-more-about-how-newark-schools-partially-squandered-mark-zuckerburgs-100-million-donation-2015-10

But I forgive you for your unyielding ignorance, leaf, after all you've probably never even met a real black person before.

>Now we just have a shortage of qualified professional workers.
No, we don't. That is an incredible lie and I don't understand how anyone falls for it.

The United States has a population of 320 million, our Labor Participation rate has been dropping since 2009, and we have an intense focus on higher education.

We have a surplus of EVERY type of worker. They need the job opportunities and proper pay.

increase employer-subsidized education
lower college overhead
force colleges to match inflation rate tuition hikes.


college education is suffering for the same reason healthcare is - too much demand, too little reward. they pricehike to match unreasonable demand

nytimes.com/2015/04/05/opinion/sunday/the-real-reason-college-tuition-costs-so-much.html

even the jew york times agrees with me.

the college bubble needs to burst and to do that we need to start weaning colleges off the government and mobilize professors to eat the salaries of the administrators who continue to grow in both number and size.

I"m not shilling for H1B's, I'd like to get rid of H1B's and find a way to get more American workers qualified to work professional job vacancies. If we had a system where Employers agreed to pay the cost for a potential employees education with a contract that the employee works for them for 5-10 years or something like that, great.

But right now employers don't even want to train people at all they want people who already have years of experience under their belt on top of the educational requirements.

Sorry friendo but work hard and get lucky or fail. It's a dog eat dog world out there and either you survive by your own labor or you die by your own failure. Now fuck off shillfag

It's mighty late for a banker to be posting on Sup Forums.

okay but that doesn't fill job vacancies. While currently we might have a glut of qualified people next generation we won't if fewer and fewer people can afford to go to college because no financial aid.

Thank you!

>But right now employers don't even want to train people at all

No shit

It's easier to hire a poo in loo fresh off the boat to work for $10 an hour than it is to hire people

Maybe you should stop supporting mass immigration, faggoisie.

It's not exactly a mystery why mass immigration causes higher cost of living and lower wages, it's basic supply and demand.

>muh job vacancies

i.e. I don't want to pay workers so please let in the dregs of the 3rd world.

Yes thank you I've heard this exact arm from the Republicans like JEB! and Rubio and the chamber of commerce for years

I don't need you repeating the same shit over and over.

Just today Kristol said that since white people aren't willing to work for 10 cents an our they should be replaced.

You're an idiot. Allow me to explain.

You think that the DoE backing colleges is going to matter when most colleges these days are poorly run marketing schemes designed to charge students the maximum and only teach them easy fluff like gender studies that they can shake a tree and have leftists rolling out of it like coconuts to teach.

Meanwhile the lagging STEM fields are neglected because:

They are hard
Leftists don't like to work for their own money.

This shit is simple and yet you shitlibs come with pages and pages of mental backflipping to try to poke holes in everything.

DoE is a propaganda machine, shut it the fuck down and let the free market rise to fill the void.

People want work, people want to educate their kids, industry needs experts.

The industry will come in and subsidize the education that is needed, such as when DOW chemical subsidizes classes such as instrumentation at local colleges. Industries that you never heard of because you're a shitlib that thinks all blue collar people are stupid while you jerk off to anime porn and pin an I'm with her button on your harry potter backpack.

You think poos and flips aren't taking all the jobs already not by virtue of degrees but because H1B visas are already cheap as fuck which is why all the tech companies are banding together against Trump.

"Diversity" is just code to them for "Who can I find to work for free"

Less Americans will go to WORTHLESS colleges to be replaced by meaningful degrees again when the dust settles and the market chooses the survives and kills off all the -ist and X studies social fluff classes and the ensuing expense and debt burden on students.

Industry won't want to subsidize genital studies when it isn't politically favorable anymore because it's all a giant waste of everyone's time.

I just said I don't WANT H1B's. I'm saying that killing off American's ability to afford college will CAUSE more H1B's to come in here. Which would be FUCKING AWFUL. I don't want poos to be taking all our professional jobs while Americans are stuck with blue collar manual labor jobs. For fuck's sake, READ.

What you have is an unsustainable growth of educational costs fueled by loans that you can't discharge, so universities can pile on administrative overhead for both originators and universities, prop up publisher revenues, and perpetuate debt collector/relief. This results in degree inflation where coffee slingers are expected to have university degrees that they cannot pay for.

States have completely balked on their obligation to ensure that their public universities are efficiently run. Even the national plan to mitigate student loan debt was just a scheme to transfer the increasing costs to the Feds' balance sheet, hidden by a "programming error."

DoE isn't even a miniboss in your problem.

STEM isn't lagging

there is no STEM shortage of workers, in reality there is a STEM workers glut.

It just looks like a shortage in comparison to the far larger glut of worthless liberal arts majors.

What's the solution? I think it's obvious

1.End the college debt scam

It serves no real purpose, it's a hold over from the old days when college was only for the sons of rich men.

STEM degrees should be free as long as you can get the grades w/o affirmative action

Liberal arts degrees on the other hand should still cost a ton of money AND force you to get a classical humanities education which means learning Latin and Greek. This would filter out all the Marxists and feminists that make art projects out of drinking their menstrual blood.

>American's can't afford college

College is unaffordable because it is designed to be a scam, not because there is anything innately unaffordable about college.

Hundreds Millions of dollars are squander on worthless bullshit like diversity, football, administration, campus vanity projects, etc

STEM itself only ever makes up a tiny portion of a university's budget.

>CAUSE more H1B's to come in here

You can't bring in more H1Bs if you ban H1Bs

>I don't want poos to be taking all our professional jobs

That is only a possibility if you allow H1B visas at all

and I agree, ban H1B's, but we still need good access to college so that American workers can get the needed qualifications for good STEM jobs.

We CURRENTLY have a glut of STEM workers because we have financial aid. When that is cut off by destroying the DoE, in a generation we WON'T have a glut of stem workers we'll have a shortage. I'm thinking in the future.

Financial aid from the government is the reason why colleges or so expensive. Once the government hands out $5k to everyone they can increase the tuition price because the government's paying for it.

Take away financial aid totally and you'll see tuition plummet lest they have 0 applicants.

are*

Student loan, nigger

I already said STEM degrees

There is tremendous overhead in the college system, because it is designed to be a scam

there is no reason for education to cost this much.

Another option is to make it legal for companies to use IQ tests or other cognitive tests to hire workers again. Tests for employment were banned in the 70s because they were "racist"

As long as cheap credit (student loans) exists prices will increase

just look at housing, education, healtcare, transport, etc

the cost of all these things continues to increase because of the endless debt bubbles created by the banking system. We never learned anything from 2008.

without the DoE subsidizing them, people from low income families won't qualify for those.

Is this no child left behind shit

> most college majors are actually worth anything

When the US education system actually worked, it was when the fed was out of education. States managed themselves, and we had education systems that worked.

If you think the Department of Education has always been around, you might be 14 and mentally retarded. The idea that the federal government mandates what is taught and how it is taught for the entire nation is a travesty and downright communistic.

No, this is college financial aid shit.

I'm not talking about government subsidized loans. Private loans. Or literally get a part time job because tuition for a community college is like 2 grand a semester.

This, go bitch at T_D or something.

>implying you can afford college on a part time minimum wage job

Shit you can't even afford rent with that.

Well now that the subsidies have inflated the market prices it's difficult, the market would need to adapt to lower budgets or keep their alumni happy.

If working isn't your thing there are also scholarships and private grants that provide funds based on merit.

How fucking retarded can you get? American education has been declining for decades. The costs are going up. Higher education is becoming vastly more expensive, and vastly less useful. Education is shit in this country and getting worse.

The Department of Education was formed around 1980. Before that, it didn't exist. Up until 1972 there was an "Office of education" which basically just gathered data and made reports.

How long do we have to try the current Department of Education model before realizing it is awful. Bad outcomes for students. Incredibly expensive compared to countries that have much better educated children. Expensive and useless higher education.

Let's not keep ramming our heads into the wall. Let's do something different. Free market principles applied to the education market. Give people vouchers and let them choose the schools they want to attend. This will create competition. Give control over curriculum back to the state and local level.

This isn't a radical idea. This is similar to how the country used to be run, back when our education was improving every generation.

This. Plus OP can go fuck himself. Don't come in here thinking you know shit. You're a dumbfuck.

>scholarships

Here's the thing about scholarships. Schools have limited resources to give out scholarships, and since they operate as a business they like to get return on their investment.

A full ride athletic scholarship to a promising football player can get them that return, because if their team is doing good the ticket sales will make them a profit, worth the investment.

Giving a small $1500-$2500 a semester scholarship to a student who's family makes 6 figure incomes is also a good investment, as the family will pay the rest of tuition and boarding and all the other fees and the school makes profit off of it.

Meanwhile giving a full ride academic scholarship to a low income family student is just throwing money into a furnace and watching it burn. That academic student is not getting you money back from any ticket sales nor is their family paying for the rest of tuition or making donations to the school. The school is not making money off that student at all, they're investing money for..... for what? It's an academic undergrad student, they're not going to bring anything to the school that makes it money.

Very rarely do poor kids get full academic scholarships.

Until you force price constraints on public schools, and develop publicly-funded textbooks to sidestep the publishing industry's "lol reorder problems new $200 edition," you aren't going to "afford shit" in the following decades.

>we should finance people to get degrees that are fucking useless who then proceed to turn down jobs because they feel too good for them

fuck off, public education is trash

The textbooks is a real fucking scam, 100% agreed. It's fucking retarded when you can't even sell back your book at the end of the semester because they're using a new edition of the same book next semester.

The NDEA didn't fund shit degrees.

America used to have a great education system then they founded the department of education and it all went down hill from there, I wonder why is that?

Teachers unions where I am perpetually boning liberals, teachers all comprised of failed professionals, failed professionals all liberals, liberals want Greek government wages for doing a shit job. I am not versed in the education status of the US, but I'm confident it doesn't work properly given the SJW population.

2 words
aclu quotas

>doesn't realize that the current education system is complete shit

we are not obligated to give everyone in the world a first world lifestyle nor indoctrinate our citizens with muh multiculturalism

Because everything in the United States likes to receive both overt and covert subsidies, but without any kind of price controls. The same reason healthcare costs are ballooning.

America also used to not have every job require college degrees because we had less technology oriented jobs. You could hire high school graduates to work at a factory.

People blame education, but not the kids themselves. There's a reason why inner city schools don't perform well.

Throw all the money you want at education but if the kids are too dumb and or don't give a fuck, you're just flushing it.

Generally, public school teachers are twice as likely to send their children to private schools as the average parent.

Teachers in some blue states, and politicians across the board - three or four times as likely.

The more you know!

college is a waste of time and should be treated as such

t. know-nothing

>Painting all education with the gender studies brush
I found my electrical engineering degree far more informative than the poorly stumbled-over explanations from wannabe-teslas on the internet.

>Generally, public school teachers are twice as likely to send their children to private schools as the average parent.
Also, ironically, homeschool kids whose parents are teachers actually do worse than homeschool kids who don't have a parent who is a teacher.

So, I think we're agreeing there should be some sort of qualifying majors list for financial aid. No feminist dance therapy degrees funded by taxpayer dollars but shouldn't STEM degrees still have financial assistance?

What a crock of shit. Thanks to all of the retards getting student loans for worthless degrees, tuition has tripled in the last decade at my alma mater. If anything, reducing the number of student loans would help keep these retards from starting out life under massive debt and lower the demand for college degrees, which would force universities to be more price competitive. This isn't the sixties anymore. A worthless liberal arts degree no longer guarantees getting a good job.

Or you make people train their employees to do the job. And the government could give grants to do that.

Just look up Ron Paul, both him and his son Rand want to get rid of Department of Education I'm sure you'll find a great explanation from them.
We were just fine before it, we still went it the moon without it.
youtube.com/watch?v=geSWUhomSWU

this

for example I voted for two contradictory ballot propositions for the lulz

This would be way better than the current system every kid would have at least an associates degree if they go through to grade 12.

Public Schools are garbage and should be abbolished.

Only shitty parents and single mothers looking for a taxpayer funded daycare would send their kids to one of those MS13, meth infested shitskin shitholes.

I can teach my kids everything they need to know, and with the taxes I'll save not funding some degenerate 85 IQ nigger to shoot dice in the hallways and sell crack alongside the wetbacks meth dealers, I can hire a top tier private tutor.

Heck, other parents at my church could pool our money to hire a great tutor to teach our kids in groups of 12 or less.

Go fuck yourself, degenerate leftist scum. The government is garbage.

i really wanna fuck betsy devos

>at least it gives people from poor families a CHANCE at social mobility

I dropped out of school in kindergarten. I was born to two poor whites, one of which had been in the army reserves, and the other in the Navy on a submarine.

There is no social mobility. You can be a technical wizard, handsome, skinny - girls will even flirt with you. No one cares. No one will give you a job, and everyone denies your abilities because you're poor. I've had co-workers tell me that I've never punched down CAT5 cable - after they put the tools in my hand and said 'punch.' Because if they admitted that I could punch down cable, they had nothing going for them that I didn't also have.

I've had co-workers lie and say I did jobs I didn't do, because they screwed something up. And they get away with it - because they came from a rich family.

>Now we just have a shortage of qualified professional workers

I'm A+ and Network+ certified. I've run the cables the rich Asians of Seattle use in their condos to transfer their packets of CP. The DoE didn't pat for anything - I cashed in stock I got from my great grandmother to pay for my education. I also got a computer at the same time - 2011 - that I still use for work, because I haven't been able to buy a new one.

I have no idea why no one else can admit that they're where they are because of money.

>So how the fuck do you fill all those vacancies with qualified people, when fewer and fewer people can afford to GET those qualifications necessary for the job?

I taught myself. I didn't spend a cent on study materials. I didn't have a teacher, and I didn't read guides. I looked at wikipedia. When something didn't make sense, I shifted back and forth between tabs until I knew everything by heart.

Nothing on the tests has been useful to me in real life. Anyone could do my job. I spent $800 on two tests, and I've made $180/hr for two hours of waiting on a naval base.

Effort and skill means nothing. You're either born on top or you aren't.

Low income grants don't exists????

Well fuck my up taxes up senpai

In all seriousness we have far to many people going into higher education. If anything the numbers should be reduced.

Because everyone knows you need a 4 year degree to even turn on a computer right?

For the most part college degrees are worthless and meaningless. They are no different than a high school diploma was 20 years ago. They just show that were not a complete piece of shit. Most college kids are complete blithering idiots. They are indoctrination camps, not schools. Shut em down and maga

>less people quit purchasing product known as "college."
>college must drop tuition costs to increase demand and get back to old profits

Or

>prospective skilled workers apply to intern at job
>after interview and review process, employer deems this young man a healthy investment
>offers to pay for their education provided they work with the company for x amount of years

Seriously, it's basic economics. 2nd option is basically what the military does. The free market could apply the same system to every industry involving skilled labor.

Those grants come from the DoE you fucking mongoloid.

>Because you need a college degree to do most of the jobs that "require" a college degree.

Good one

The states give grants as well. Especially in the community colleges and trade schools which are far more important to the economy than another gender studies major from some liberal arts university.

I ask you what can the DoE do that the states cannot?

go try to work as a surgical technician without a college degree and certification.

Tell them you know what you're doing because you learned it on the internet.

They will laugh in your face and joke about you in the hospital or surgical center for years.

Yeah nice cherry picking faggot.
Too bad most people don't go to school to become a doctor. Most jobs "require" a degree because there are so many people with them without work in their field.

or how about this: if you go into surgery who do you want as your anesthesiologist, an MD or Certificed Nurse Anesthetist who went to school got a degree that shows they've studied the human body, and cerfification /license that proves they know how to do their job without killing you, or just some guy who googled "how do I put a patient under anesthesia for surgery?"

>implying a job where the average surgical technologist pay of $23 is impressive and worth wasting 4 years of your life and thousands of dollars for.

it's a job that you need people to do and requires skills and education you just won't get in high school or on the internet.

see

well I'll tell you what.

You're not going to get that with just abolishing the DoE FIRST, you're going to get an influx of H1B visas instead.

You need to abolish H1B Visas first, not the DoE. You abolish H1B Visas, THEN once it's secured that professional jobs will be going to Americans, THEN maybe you can get rid of the college bubble and then employers will panic and realize they need to invest in potential employees education if they want qualified workers.

Sure. H1B Visas are just slavery under a different name.

but see, right now there's a bill going through to abolish the DoE. There is no bill to abolish H1B visas.

So if that bill goes through, we'll just get lots of poos and flips.

Fox News isn't going to tell them that their republican lawmakers just got rid of laws limiting overdraft fees for banks or that it is now legal for coal companies to dump their mining runoff directly into streams. They don't WANT these things, they're just morons and need actual adults to step in and protect them from themselves.

>Take away financial aid totally and you'll see tuition plummet lest they have 0 applicants.

That's not how it works dumbass.

No because Trump already said he would be addressing that. He isn't trying to run a fast one by you like past presidents.

If they're anything like most businesses, first they'd HIKE tuition rates to bleed dry those who CAN afford to pay on their own, then only once the upper middle class and rich kids say fuck this I'm not paying this much for this school, THEN they'll reduce prices.

I've been in apartment complexes like that, some people moved out and they had a bunch of vacant units? They hiked everyone else's rent $25 a month, because the landlord couldn't tolerate making less money per month off the property. On the second rent hike I moved out.

How the fuck would you know? Are you there to evaluate what is going to be put in it's place? No? Then why don't you go suck a dick.

Education should be left up to state and local governments, if not privatized all together.

The idea that we need someone 2000 miles away in D.C. telling us what our kids need to learn is absurd.

The reason our curriculum turns out so many libtards is because it indoctrinates kids into the left's ideology and any dissent is forbidden.

so many people obviously home schooled or some shit because they didn't read and think this is about K-12 shit.

the idea that we need 50 (or 5000) different curriculum is the real absurdity

if you had coherent criticisms of the curriculum (and there are plenty, you are just too retarded to articulate them) you'd be talking about that instead of empty abstractions that make you feel like you've taken an intelligent point of view

Fucking THIS.

A lot of Sup Forums just want another HAPPENING.

I didn't vote for Obama (either time) but that nerd was stable as fuck. He didn't rock the boat and set a steady upward course for this country after 2008. As someone with a house, investments, career, etc. I'm okay with that even if I disagree with a lot of the silly shit he did.