Is Fascism inherently nationalistic? And can there be a Fascist communist state...

Is Fascism inherently nationalistic? And can there be a Fascist communist state? Economically how do Fascism and Communism compare? Jewpedia seems to say that Fascism is always totalitarian, but that Communism isn't. But some sources say that Totalitarianism must have a planned economy, which is a type of a socialism.

My point is how much do Communism and Fascism overlap and can they coincide together?

Other urls found in this thread:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_fascism
youtube.com/watch?v=9oofI0AKrJs
youtube.com/watch?v=aBNKkLTYk6g
youtube.com/watch?v=RmtuCzKy83U
youtu.be/3NqG2lAojNQ
brilliantmaps.com/europe-fight-war/
twitter.com/SFWRedditGifs

Fascism is a reaction to communism so no they cannot be the same. Communism is fully authoritarian so the practices seem the same with government control but Fascist nations have always been way friendlier

sorry that image wasnt meant to be posted

Do you know the procedure of fully draining a person's body of blood? Please

Fascism is always totalitarian socialism isn't always. The economic differences are pretty large with Stalinist's advocating complete nationalization of all company's and fascism of only a couple and mostly just capitalism. Libertarian Marxism does exist while libertarian Fascism would be a contradiction.

the soviets are defined by many scholars as red fascists en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_fascism

I'm thoroughly disturbed.

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>mostly just capitalism
there is no capitalism.
there is peoples rights and such but not the Capital"ism" power over the people, there is the worker, the farmer and they have the power and work under equal treatment of power of their will and not being ruled by the owners of capital.

Fascism means the unification of all classes.

Who owns the means of production?
Workers? Capitalists? The state?

>is fascism inherently nationalistic?
stop right there bud go read the doctrine of fascism first.

>Who owns the means of production?
The nation, the workers, the people.

Unification of the classes is perpendicular to the fascist ideal of class cooperation

Your mistaking fascism with national socialism (nazism). National socialism is basically communism for Aryans. Facism is rooted in going back to the good old days and clubbing socialists to death.

first post weirdest post.

>fascist nations have always been way friendlier
what a cryin' shame waste of dubbadubbs.

Explain. Is everything nationalized? Are private companies allowed?

The state leads the workers, the farmers, the industry, monetary policy and such, those who are the best join the party and lead the party into the future, competition and work, work and we work for you, the nation works for itself.

The Nazis were socialist, not fascist. "fascist" is just a buzzword jewish professors use to protect their precious authoritarian leftist ideology from the bad name Hitler gave it.

Il Duce's father was a vocal socialist and this is quite prominent in his works

Communism is worse than Facism

How do you explain all that privatization?

Yeah, I understand how National Socialism actually seems quite different from what Fascism would typically entail, but then everything I read seems to equate National Socialism as the golden standard of Fascism.

Honestly, National Socialism being right-winged is starting to feel like a made up lie.

They can be if they prove to serve the nation, small private businesses are good for the development of the nation and people.

So sort or authoritarian social democracy?

Fascists nations , what do you think of when you hear the word?

Hitler and his proud german nation. Screaming fans as the Nazi flags fly, powerful army
You think of Italy/Rome, same thing

Then you think of communist nations: you can only see Rust and Famine, and a brainwashed people

>Is Fascism inherently nationalistic
No.
>Can there be a facist communist state
No. In the communist state the state serves the workers. In the Facist statet the workers serve the state.

>Implying nationalism is bad.
> youtube.com/watch?v=9oofI0AKrJs

National Socialism is a war between who leads, Workers, or Capital.

Hitler made his state on 1 base, the Workers, not Capital, not Gold, not beaurocrats, he said the only thing of value is the WORKERS.

The workers build Germany and Germany builds the workers.

youtube.com/watch?v=aBNKkLTYk6g

>state the state serves the workers
I didn't know the workers loved so many famines.

This.

Communism is a bluepilled ideology who thinks every poor people around the world are equal and they will fight toguether against bourgeoisie, fascism understands that that's half true and also countries and races fight each other.

Wallstreet does not lead, washington does not lead, the workers lead and build the nation, ONLY the workers and workers currency not washingtons capital to control the workers.

Not understanding the true basis of the notion that the workers and the state are not autonomous but a single social organism

>the communist state serves the workers

Yeah Stalin and his crew were really working for everyone in Ukraine

The WORKERS organization, leaves the capital of the thieves with what they work themselves, nothing.

The Workers will lead not Wall street.

alright lads heres a quick run down of fascism
the state is not the government so much as its authority, when mussolini saw that ww1 didnt break apart the nation and saw the proletariat going off to die he realized that the nation is more powerful than class division, national socialism from germany is not socialist as in socialism nor is it really like fascism because fascism doesn't define the nation as ethnicity its more abstract than that. economically it works much like post ww2 japan, the workers dont really have unions but more like a system of organizing to voice there desires and whatever is bothering them, this system is called corporatism, different sectors of the economy are organized to focus more on things like war production, creating artificial demand to rapidly grow certain sectors of the economy or even tackle certain issues faster.

the workers serve the nation and when needed the nation and state serve the workers

Hang them upside down with a meat hook through their taint. Slit the neck horizontally, and the wrists vertically along the main arteries.

t. Hotdog vendor

What the fuck does that even mean

>implying wall street arent the jews

The rich are the mental workers. The jews are the manipulators

We're talking theory and idea here.

One cannot thrive without the other, that much is correct, but I'd rather call it symbiosis.

Well, my questions were based in actual reality. Because Communism obviously has a different supposed objective from Fascism at the most basic ideological level.

There will be no more wallstreet, there will be no more private dictatorship of capital, there will be no more private banks.

Note this does not affect the peoples rights and such, only the dictatorship of mobilization of massive capital.

it breaks down like this the workers are given a voice through the corporatist system and the state does its best to provide things like state sponsored sports leagues, paying for night school, public drinking fountains, all because the workers are the nation and fuck dude just read the doctrine of fascism its fucking short

wallstreet today
wallstreet tommorow
youtube.com/watch?v=RmtuCzKy83U

The capital distribution of great nation will be handled by our people for our peoples interests and our peoples businesses and our nations expansion, NOT for the exploitation of a few who see our people as pigs to slaughter and profit.

>Is Fascism inherently nationalistic

yes. Fascism is pretty narrowly defined and nationalism is part of it. But not every nationalism si fascism as it is only one feature of it and there are many more. But there are some common features with communism (or more precisely, socialism). Natsoc is not the samo as fascism.

>Fascist nations have always been way friendlier

depends. All county ruled by communist were named socialist as the real communism wasnt obtained yet (and probably never will, as its pure idealistic bullshit). On other hand , Soviet union in Stalins times was in that regard quite similar to Nazi Germany, exept expansionist shit witch at end destroyed it and its reason for hate toward fascism in general. Some socialist countries like Yugoslavia or some Soviet satelites were more similar to Francos Spain and were less totalitarian and both were friendlier then their more extreme counterparts.

>my questions were based in actual reality
>Communism obviously has a different supposed objective from Fascism at the most basic ideological level
>Idealogical level
Make up your mind.

Fascism is when the government, corporations and media come together to push a certain agenda on the people of a certain nation.

Doesnt have to be nationalist, it can be left-wing nonsense as well. I like to make the arguement that modern day Democrats, especially under Obama, were (and are) legitimtely very Fascist-like with their government, media and corporations force feeding and coercing the populace on issues such as open borders, feminism, gun rights and transgenderism. The only reason they didnt go full authoritarian is because they wouldnt have been to able to get away with it. Same with many of the EU member states.

Communism on the other hand is when workers control the means of production. Absolutely no private corporations, and technically no government as well in a "muh true Communist utopia" fantasy setting. So yes, technically Communism is the antithesis of Fascism. Communists often believe that a Fascist government is in the pockets of corporations, looking to force control over the common working man or proletariat. Stalin once said Fascism is "the marriage of corporations and the state", which is actually accurate IMO.

Socialism is essentially just a big ass government that sticks its hands in everything, usually on behalf of the people (or it is at least sold like so). They allow capitalist markets, unlike Communism, and are not married to the interests of corporations like Fascism (if practiced properly). Though as said earlier, I am of the belief that many modern day Left-Wing, Western, Socialist governments are actually Fascist governments in disguise (and no, Fascism!= Nationalism- it can take form under any agenda).

It's called national bolshevism.

Yes, I'm not talking about it at the ideological level and instead based on execution/history because the difference in the original ideology is obvious. That's why I'm asking you these questions.

National Socialism seeks to give power to the individual people through an authoritarian state dominating those elements which dominate the individuals.

If Fascism isn't nationalistic than why do so many people say Fascism is nationalistic?

because it is and he has no idea what fascism is about

Because theyre close minded, going by only how its historically been implemented, instead of countless other possibilities and ways it COULD be implemented.

What do you call a Fascist government and society that coerces open borders, feminism and identity politics upon the people? A Fascist government.

Simple as that.

>why do so many people
Because they all got it from the same propaganda source.

>What do you call a Fascist government and society that coerces open borders, feminism and identity politics upon the people? A Fascist government.
That's called an authoritarian state not a Fascist government.

>Socialism isn't always totalitarian

It is in practice

Why so many of you fags mix fascism with autocracy or totalitarianism? I know that it can be useful in propaganda against left, because they them self misuse the term, but it dont make it correct.

they call it fascism because they dont know what fascism actually is

because fascism is a totalitarian ideology it encompasses more than just politics

Theres no such thing as "Authoritarianism". Its not a political group or identity, you dolt.

A Fascist government in its most basic form is the marriage of the State and Corporations. Which is exactly what is happening today with these so-called "Socialist" and Left Wing parties in mainstream Western politics.

I know it hurts to think outside the box, but try to stop and breath for a minute.

you do realize that quote by Mussolini on fascism being a marriage between state and corporations isn't actually a Mussolini quote but was from some lady talking about fascism right? fascism uses a system of organizing the economy called corporatism which is somewhat like syndicalism.

"Totalitarianism" is nothing more than an adjective. It is not a political ideology.

And I explicitly said that even though things have not declined into such a totalitarian state, mark my words that they would surely enact such a state if they could get away with it. They already coerce people through legislation, media and back-door privacy infiltration- what more evidence do you need that they wish to have complete control over you?

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but its not the only totalitarian ideology. Totalitarianism is wider term then fascism and it includes more ideologies (like some variants of communism, potentially every ideology can become totalitarian when taken to extreme). On other hand, not every fascism is considered totalitarian, Francos Spain or partly Italy (although this one probably because Italian incompetence to implement it on full scale) are considered authoritarian.

>all these hardcore definitions
fascism is a one-party state that persecutes its commie competitors

commies use it as a swear word because fascists kill commies

Every fascist regime has been nationalistic. No, because fascism was mostly an anti-communist effort. Fascism preaches corporatism and Social Darwinism, Socialists promote socialism. Every fascist regime was highly authoritarian and the only real definition given for fascism defines it as totalitarian, Communism is not supposed to be authoritarian; however, in practice it results in a very few have almost complete control over the country. Those some sources are wrong, fascists definitely forcefully guided the economy, but it was not centrally planned. Fascism was literally defined as "everything in the state, nothing against the state, nothing outside the state" by the creator of fascism.

Fascism and Communism in practice do overlap quite a bit. For example, due to the rhetoric of Communism (Communism in One Country, Juche, Anti-Imperialism) it develops a fairly nationalistic sentiment, which every fascist regime has tried to create. But they certainly aren't the same, especially as far as economics and the Social Darwinism innate in Fascism. Probably end goals as well, Socialists want Communism, Fascists depend, but some say they eventually wanted a democracy. It is important to note that Mussolini, Hitler, and the Japs never really gave a clear set definition of fascism.

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>Is Fascism inherently nationalistic?
Yes.
>And can there be a Fascist communist state?
No.

Fascism supports class inequality and was monarchist in its original adaptation, communism is literally the opposite. Also, pure communism doesn't believe in money.

because commies threaten the nation by dividing it by class when the nation is more important than any individual class. they also like to use extreme violence so they usually need to be killed

It was actually a Stalin quote, not Mussolini.

And yes, I agree with you. Whats your point? In case you havent noticed, corporations these days fully back Leftist government and legislation, and even lobby for it, if they arent already propping it up entirely themselves. Democrats are pretty much bought and paid for by Wall Street, which is why they outed a true Left-Wing Socialist such as Bernie Sanders in favor of a corporate talking head like Hillary Clinton.

Thats about as close to contemporary Fascism as one can get.

It is a made up lie to help cover up the fact that socialism (National Socialism, Communism) is what caused WW2 and was responsible for the most deaths of any ideology in the 20th century.
That's also why the media and leftists use the term "NAZI" instead of the proper term "National Socialism" because that might make precious socialism look bad and that can't happen!

>Fascism is far right
>National Socialism is left wing
>National Socialism is Fascism

Fascism is not inherently Nationalistic. This meme needs to die.

Thats like saying Socialism is inherently Nationalistic because Hitler coined his own ideology known as National Socialism, despite there clearly being other ways to implement Socialism.

youtu.be/3NqG2lAojNQ
because they don't serve the nation they aren't fascists

They are serving the nation if they brainwash and coerce the public to believe that open borders, feminism, gun control and identity politics is for the betterment of the nation.

>No. In the communist state the state serves the workers. In the Facist statet the workers serve the state
>National Socialism is a war between who leads, Workers, or Capital.
Pic related

>the workers serve the nation and when needed the nation and state serve the workers
This is close.

Fascism is the idea that organized activity is an organic outreach of a people. Workers and work itself, corporations, the military, and the state must all serve the people from which they spring.

If private ownership of an enterprise is of benefit to the people, then private ownership it is. If state ownership is better for the people, state ownership. If it is best for the culture and people to send cultural subversives to camps, that is what you do.

All and anything for the people, whether they want it or not.

>The people comes first
You sound like a socialist, and you're wrong.

>Every single regime that called itself fascist or aligned with fascists were nationalistic.
>Fascists historically used nationalist rhetoric

Also your analogy doesn't really address what you are saying. It isn't a bad thing that fascists were nationalistic, just because you are a nationalist doesn't make you a fascist. But misusing a term to the point where it loses meaning is exactly what the left does, and it is the reason they are losing.

Mussolini was king of socialism in Italy. But he broke with the internationalists when they didn't want to join WWI. So was born nationalist socialism. Still marxist abortions. Still a leftwing despicable ideology. Still sjw.

>Every single regime that called itself fascist or aligned with fascists were nationalistic
That's not true, in the homeland of facism, Italy, this was not the case. There's even some quote from Mussolini about how the Germans are strange with their obsession about ethnicity when everyone who is willing to work hard and contribute to the nation is welcome in Italy.

Plenty of literature disagree with this, for example Mises' Socialism. Long story short, fascism is a facet of socialism with nationalist undertones.

At the time of its implementation both fascists and socialists knew that totally planned economy wasn't possible.

>It is humiliating to remain with our hands folded while others write history. It matters little who wins. To make a people great it is necessary to send them to battle even if you have to kick them in the pants. That is what I shall do.
Nationalism=/=Belief in Racial Superiority. Mussolini's rhetoric usually discussed making a people great through war, struggle, etc. and shows a very clear Social Darwinist bottom line. He may not have been as racially focused as Hitler, but he was definitely nationalistic.

>You sound like a socialist, and you're wrong.
No, a socialist advocates community organization and ownership of the economy/means of production.

A fascist determines what is best for his or her people. This is why fascists nationalize some industries and leave others in private ownership. It determines what is in the best interest of the x(German, English, American, Italian, etc) people and acts according to such determinations.

Yes.

>National Socialism was Socialism
Yeah, you have no idea of what you're talking about.

Going back to Fascism, it is nationalistic both economically (they're isolationists and protectionists, businesses have to be approved by the state and deemed good for the population) and socially (one party, one ruler, one people, one country; everyone must think and act in function of all other citizens).

brilliantmaps.com/europe-fight-war/

This is the most depressing thing I have seen all day.

He was nationalistc in his desire to remake the roman empire, and facism was his means to do so, but not the reason for his desire.

>A facist determines what is best for his or her people
Wrong. A facist determines what is best for his or her state, which in almost all cases means giving the state more control. Large businesses, the media and national resources are all things which the state can control much better than the private corporations can. This is the case because the state has the power to adjust the market in it's own favor to a much higher degree than corporations can. High taxes are also a facist trait since more money in the state treasury is also for the best of the state.

>He was nationalistc in his desire to remake the roman empire, and facism was his means to do so, but not the reason for his desire.
Then Fascism is nationalistic, and every fascist regime has used nationalistic rhetoric. Besides how is literally recreating a historically great empire that your people came from not just *a little bit* nationalistic.

Only need 10% to win a world war mate.

Fascism, like nazism, is a temporary measure needed to clean up the country.

>dudeweedlmao the nation is the lowest

ur dooombbb

the nazis were National Socialists not fascists.
the answer is that communism is the highest iteration of fascism, with the government controlling everything

Your splitting hairs over everything.

Again, Fascism, as a political ideology, is nothing more than the state and the corporations uniting for a common goal, be it nationalist, globalist or anything in-between.

Your just referencing old historical implementations of Fascism. Youre not actually discussing the ideology itself.

It is nationalistic to want to recreate your empire, and Mussolini was nationalistic, as he wanted the best for his nation and for it to be great.

The thing is that nationalism means prioritizing your own citizens first, but Mussolini, and any real facist, would rather have more productive foreigners than less productive nationals, since it's about the state achieving as much as possible and not the people in it.