Thread for the discussion of the philosophical system of Objectivism and its founder, Ayn Rand.
>WHAT IS OBJECTIVISM? Objectivism is a full system of philosophy advocating reason and egoism, created and defined by Ayn Rand and further presented in books such as Atlas Shrugged, The Virtue of Selfishness, and An Introduction to Objectivist Epistemology, among various others. Further reading can be found at: theobjectivestandard.com/what-is-objectivism/ and aynrand.org/ideas/philosophy and
>WHAT ARE THE ESSENTIAL TENETS OF OBJECTIVISM? Metaphysics: Objective Reality - “Nature, to be commanded, must be obeyed”/“Wishing won’t make it so.” Epistemology: Reason - “You can’t eat your cake and have it, too.” Ethics: Self-interest - “Man is an end in himself.” Politics: Capitalism - “Give me liberty or give me death.” Further reading: aynrandlexicon.com/ayn-rand-ideas/introducing-objectivism.html youtube.com/watch?v=_0R8APgeSfI
>COMMON MISCONCEPTIONS REGARDING OBJECTIVISM/AYN RAND >Ayn Rand was a Jew/Objectivism is a Jewish ideology Leonard Peikoff, Ayn Rand's designated intellectual heir, has been explicit about Jewish tribalism and how nasty it is peikoff.com/2013/12/30/are-jewish-people-racist/. Similarly, Jews hated Rand with a passion for things like opposing desegregation and calling Israel a fascist state.
>Aren’t people already too selfish? Just do whatever you feel like, be a thoughtless jerk, and exploit people to get ahead Ayn Rand argued that acting thoughtlessly and victimizing others is not in your self-interest.
>Isn't Objectivism Libertarian/AnCap? No. Ayn Rand disliked Libertarianism and considered Libertarians to be the "hippies of the right". She likewise considered anarchism irrational. Further info: campus.aynrand.org/lexicon/libertarians
I am profoundly opposed to the philosophy of hedonism. Hedonism is the doctrine which holds that the good is whatever gives you pleasure and, therefore, pleasure is the standard of morality. Objectivism holds that the good must be defined by a rational standard of value, that pleasure is not a first cause, but only a consequence, that only the pleasure which proceeds from a rational value judgment can be regarded as moral, that pleasure, as such, is not a guide to action nor a standard of morality. To say that pleasure should be the standard of morality simply means that whichever values you happen to have chosen, consciously or subconsciously, rationally or irrationally, are right and moral. This means that you are to be guided by chance feelings, emotions and whims, not by your mind. My philosophy is the opposite of hedonism. I hold that one cannot achieve happiness by random, arbitrary or subjective means. One can achieve happiness only on the basis of rational values. By rational values, I do not mean anything that a man may arbitrarily or blindly declare to be rational. It is the province of morality, of the science of ethics, to define for men what is a rational standard and what are the rational values to pursue.
>Ayn Rand was a Jew/Objectivism is a Jewish ideology Leonard Peikoff, Ayn Rand's designated intellectual heir, has been explicit about Jewish tribalism and how nasty it is peikoff.com/2013/12/30/are-jewish-people-racist/. Similarly, Jews hated Rand with a passion for things like opposing desegregation and calling Israel a fascist state.
Cameron Cook
In what grounds does she reject Idealism, specially the german current i.e. Kant, Hegel, Schopenhauer etc? Im quite oblivious about her philosophy despite having knowledge of other systems of thought
Jordan Clark
A
Nathaniel Morris
lol look at this nerd trying to start an intellectual discussion with pseudo-intellectuals
Gavin Robinson
She considered it the complete opposite of Objectivism, and considered Kant to be the person who closed the door of philosophy to reason. Leonard Peikoff likewise rejected Idealism and considered it an opposite to Objectivism.
I could go more in-depth but it would be better to simply link you these:
The worst (for americans) in her is that she wrote everything according to Chernyshevsky teachings. And he was marxist agent of anglo intelligence, that was creating ideology to undermine Russian Empire.
Chernyshevsky was a Russian.
Jordan Phillips
Her books are not the ideology. She also never explained anything aurally. She just wrote a fanfic on Chernyshevsky works.
Bentley Ross
Chernyshevsky was a socialist, the complete opposite of Ayn Rand. Her works have nothing to do with Chernyshevsky.
Carter Jenkins
What's your favourite of the Peikoff lecture series?
I think mine is The History of Philosophy, Volume 1.
I remember when these courses were several hundred dollars each. Now they're free on the campus website.
Lincoln Perry
That'd probably have to be mine too.
Alexander Miller
Moral Virtue or Introduction to Logic desu
Juan Reed
He was revolutionary democrat(1) and materialist(2). As socialist he was utopian socialist(3), as in: > imaginary or futuristic ideal society, with positive ideals being the main reason for society moves in a desired direction
All 3 points are presented and perfectly intact in Alice`s fanfic.
You see, genuine commies never tell they`d rob everyone and kill a lot of people. At least they dont do it, before they have their grasp on power. That`s even painted on their patroning organisation logo.
Sebastian Davis
>All 3 points are presented and perfectly intact in Alice`s fanfic.
>Atlas Shrugged has 1100 pages yikes when am i supposed to read all of that.
Jace Green
> i have a lot of irrelevant links and no thoughts on me own Ok, whatever.
Daniel Sanchez
hype marketing > oy vey aryans, dont like socialism? > read utopic Socialism fanfic, that`s not socialism at all! > or nationalistic Socialism - that`s even more not socialism! then > muh gorillion books sold > muh best seller of all times
Brody Hall
The size may seem intimidating but it isn't actually that difficult of a read or too time consuming. If you don't have the time to read it or are new to her books, read some of her others. The Fountainhead, Anthem, Capitalism: The Unknown Ideal, etc.
Carter Moore
Funny how capitalism is only defined by marx in philosophy. And so only leftie shills and useful idiots use the word.
Owen Nelson
>the links prove that what i am saying is false so i am going to claim they're irrelevant (when they clearly are not) and then provide no evidence to back up my half-baked conspiracy theory
You are boring
Jason Long
>Atlas Shrugged received largely negative reviews after its 1957 publication, but achieved enduring popularity and consistent sales in the following decades. sounds more like a case of >oy vey don't read this book it's very bad for you! having a literal wolf in sheeps skin as logo seems pretty edgy though, i'll give you that.
After reading Seneca's Letters from a Stoic, I can see her point about idealism vs reason. That alone may warrant some further study, but I'm a little bogged down in other reading already.
Andrew Powell
>oy vey don't read this book it's very bad for you! That's it. Most people that hate on Ayn Rand, her books and Objectivism do not properly understand it. They hear that it's pro-capitalism, vaguely right wing and is against altruism, and then assume that its all bad without investigating Objectivism. Being against altruism sounds bad, but when you understand why Rand was against it then it makes sense.
The wolf in sheep skin was the first logo of the Fabian Society, a British socialist society. think they changed it so their intentions were not as obvious
Luke Brown
It's worth it
Carter Brooks
A is A
Nathaniel Garcia
ITT: >Muh 50 Shades of Grey tier masturbatory fantasy wrapped up in stolen philosophy and sociopath worship
Kek. So why do Randtards talk about Objectivism the way North Koreans talk about Juche?
Kevin Rogers
ITP: Ad Hominem
Jack Scott
>Reality exists as an objective absolute—facts are facts, independent of man’s feelings, wishes, hopes or fears.
Are there really such things as facts or just things many people agree on? I mean how can you take something as fact when your perception of everything is subjective and not objective?
Brody Perry
Why do you need to insult him?
Parker Price
That seems more of a jab at Randtards.
Also impressive 2 get combo.
Nathan Cooper
Read the brave new world and stop reading things written by a jew, women /nu male /thread
Eli Lee
Existence exists and consciousness is self-evident.
Why does her sex matter? It does not take away from her worth. The Jew point was explained in the original post
Tyler Garcia
...
Zachary Powell
The people who don't like Atlas Shrugged are usually those who have defined certain words to mean what they want them to mean.
I redpilled my jp gf with Atlas Shrugged, she doesn't talk about objectivism as such, but she knows who is a good guy and who is a bad guy.
Existence exists—and the act of grasping that statement implies two corollary axioms: that something exists which one perceives and that one exists possessing consciousness, consciousness being the faculty of perceiving that which exists.
If nothing exists, there can be no consciousness: a consciousness with nothing to be conscious of is a contradiction in terms. A consciousness conscious of nothing but itself is a contradiction in terms: before it could identify itself as consciousness, it had to be conscious of something. If that which you claim to perceive does not exist, what you possess is not consciousness.
Whatever the degree of your knowledge, these two—existence and consciousness—are axioms you cannot escape, these two are the irreducible primaries implied in any action you undertake, in any part of your knowledge and in its sum, from the first ray of light you perceive at the start of your life to the widest erudition you might acquire at its end. Whether you know the shape of a pebble or the structure of a solar system, the axioms remain the same: that it exists and that you know it.
To exist is to be something, as distinguished from the nothing of nonexistence, it is to be an entity of a specific nature made of specific attributes. Centuries ago, the man who was—no matter what his errors—the greatest of your philosophers, has stated the formula defining the concept of existence and the rule of all knowledge: A is A. A thing is itself. You have never grasped the meaning of his statement. I am here to complete it: Existence is Identity, Consciousness is Identification.
Josiah Reyes
>Objectivism is a full system of philosophy nah
Nathan Stewart
How come?
Dominic Roberts
Why can't a contradiction be true?
Ian Gomez
can you have your cake and eat it too?
Christopher Fisher
Sure.
Easton Cox
How?
Easton Clark
Dunno, but it might be possible. I don't really care about intellectual rigor.
Owen Scott
Ok, I think I get what you are trying to explain. Things exist no matter our image of them. But things are only relevant insofar as we can grasp them (e.g. looking at a pebble or doing calculations that predict observations of our solar system through a telescope).
Then again everybody perceives things differently. We share our perception of reality with other beings and come to a consensus, whether it be by logic or anecdotal. So we start from our flawed perceptions of things and come to a consensus which has to be inherently wrong because the premise already was wrong.
My point being: There is reality but it is irrelevant to us because it is always dependent of our feelings, wishes, hopes, fears and other things that come into play when we perceive it. Thus there is no objective reality, because everything there is only is because it can be felt or thought.
I think this contradicts the statement of OP: >Reality exists as an objective absolute—facts are facts, independent of man’s feelings, wishes, hopes or fears.
Jordan King
It's not
Nolan Walker
FIrst I have it then I eat it :D
Jose Hernandez
>reason
Philosophy has been around for 2500 years and yet it still can't lay claim to truth. There is no such thing as philosophical truth. Philosophy is just unconstrained reason. In fact, the Sophists were the only philosophers who got it right. They recognized reason in philosophy does not play the same role as reason in science. Reason in philosophy is all about convincing your listeners to believe some end, regardless of truth and the validity of the presuppositions, whereas reason in science is the elaboration of method.
Reason is the devil's whore. A wanton slut who sells "truth" to anyone who will pay for it. And philosophy is Pistis Sophia's ten-dollar blowjob.
I don't want anymore "truthiness". I am tired of philosophies, politics, reasonings, proofs, ideals, systems, because there is no end to the labyrinth of reason.
Instead of truth, I would rather have lies, because it takes discipline to believe in lies.
Instead of reasons, I would rather have delusions, because it takes courage to delude oneself.
Carson Foster
Strength and honor, not self & ego okay. Praise Wotan.
Carson James
Prove it.
Logan Moore
>created by a woman
Dropped
Asher Anderson
Step aside Objectivists Henry George is here
Ayn Rand comes sooo close!
Ayn Rand made arguments against perpetual intellectual property that are remarkably similar to arguments against perpetual landed property. She also saw the distinction between land and capital in terms of common vs. private property, but fell back into confusion at other times. She rightly chastised the Encyclopaedia Brittanica's definition of capitalism for confusing land and capital, which she quoted as follows: Fundamental to any system called capitalist are the relations between private owners of nonpersonal means of production (land, mines, industrial plants, etc., collectively known as capital) [emphasis Rand's]
Then she quoted a John Galt speech in Atlas Shrugged in which Galt stated sarcastically, "A factory is a `natural resource', like a tree, a rock or a mud puddle."
By Jove, I think she's...
But are the heroes of Atlas Shrugged real capitalists? The inventor John Galt is, and perhaps Hank Rearden of Rearden Metals is, too, although one wonders where he got his ore and fuel. But Taggart Railways enjoys extremely valuable right-of-way privileges from the state. (Once land is parceled out, it is virtually impossible to build a railroad without either land value tax or eminent domain.)
Then there is Francisco D'Anconia, who owned the world's richest copper deposits, and who took delight in blowing up his mines and driving the price of copper through the roof_something that would not work nearly as well for a capitalist as for a resource monopolist, as there is no way competitors can make copper ore that doesn't already exist, and, buried or not, D'Anconia's copper ore still belonged to him.
Benjamin Taylor
Why?
Trump is admirer of her
Henry Long
The economics of Galt's Gulch
Most revealing of all is the Randian utopia, Galt's Gulch, which was financed entirely from, yes, land rents. Midas Mulligan owned the whole place, and was, in essence, the government. All the common services, from Galt's magic energy machine to Hank Rearden's village railroad, to their defense system (some sort of jammer that made the valley invisible to passing planes) were financed from ground rents collected by Mulligan from the landholders. Although politically Galt's Gulch was a monarchy, economically it was a Georgist Single-Tax community, with all community services paid for from the rent of land.
Nicholas Rivera
I'm an objectivist but the only novel I enjoyed was The Fountainhead. Atlas was very enlightening but not nearly as enjoyable, so id recommend reading Fountainhead first to anyone looking into this philosophy.
Jace Gomez
Henry George was so based. We had a Georgist party here who actually managed to win a few seats a couple of decades ago, but people didn't understand what their purpose was.
Logan Kelly
Did you read her other novels ?
Adam Hall
I've been spamming Georgist shit on here for a month now and finally ive found someone who understand the genius of the LVT. Yeah its a hard to explain concept though; capitalists call you a commy and socialists call you a dirty capitalist
Henry Hernandez
Because if i eat my cake it is no longer present. To keep it present i must not eat it. So I can't eat my cake and have it too
