What is the point of the story of Abraham being asked by God to kill and sacrifice his son Isaac?
First of all if God is all knowing and all powerful why would he need to test Abraham if he would already know the outcome?
Also why subject an innocent son to the wrath of his father seeing and hearing visions? And is murder not a sin? Is God not requesting sin in this story?
Story never made sense to me, that story and the story of Job where god and the devil make a bet over the life of Job?
What moral is there to gleen from any of that? I'm a Christian but it makes God look like a psychopath... What's the point of putting people through shit, if not to torment them, if you already know the answer?
u-u-uhhh you just d-d-don't get it!!!!! true believers get it!!! f-f-filthy mudslime!!!! you have to go back ahmed!!!! deus v-v-v-vult
Adrian Fisher
pay attention to the story itself, not god, the literal plot device
Luis Brown
These posts are made to destroy the abundant #pizzagate evidence.
Do not fall for them.
Isaac Watson
I'm white and Christian and don't believe Moe to be a prophet. I find much meaning and truth in the New Testament, portions of the old just seem downright unecessarry or cruel.
Owen Wood
Honestly even if pizzagate was true, which logistically it could not be, I wouldn't give a fuck. Plus Crooked Hillary lost, why rehash shit that's only useful during elections?
Joshua Rogers
Pretty sure humans have free will so god didnt know the outcome.
Also I take it as a precursor to Jesus. If Abraham was willing to kill his son then god would sacrifice his.
David Ramirez
never use that image again you faggot
book of Job isn't meant to be in the Bible. it didn't happen. biblical historians found out that the story of Job was being told by Hebrews long before the old testament was written
it's a folk tale that has nothing to do with God's character
as for asking Abraham to sacrifice his son I don't really have an answer to that other than he wanted to teach him something
God's "test" had nothing to do with God finding out anything
Michael Perry
I think it's to show Abraham that he actually would go through with it. It's easy for someone to think "I would totally do this if I were in the position". Putting Abraham through this showed him that he actually would do anything God asked of him. Therefore, in the future Abraham wouldn't have any doubt? I don't know. I'm not a Bible scholar, but that's just my two cents.
Gabriel Martinez
>all Christians use the same books in the bible >being this retarded
William Brooks
>and don't believe Moe to be a prophet
blasphemer
James Wright
Sin is defined as being rebellion against God and being against God. To ask someone to commit murder is to ask someone to commit sin. For God to ask someone to commit sin even in jest or as a test just seems so contradictory to the principles God lays out.
Christopher Morgan
It was just a picture of God's only son. Ram in the brush being killed in the place of the marked man. And the "test" was to prove to Abraham and those that read his stories about his sacrifices (if you believe the whole Christian thing that is)
Jordan Ward
>What is the point of the story of Abraham being asked by God to kill and sacrifice his son Isaac?
The point was to show Abraham and everyone after him that the one true God wasn't like all the false gods who expected you to sacrifice your firstborn.
The point was to show Abraham and all those after him that God would provide the atonement sacrifice, human effort was insufficient.
Caleb Torres
The point is to instill blind faith. The moral is there is nothing that God could ever tell you to do to make you question him. It's the concept of The Absolute.
Sebastian Sanchez
Hang yourself shill.
Evan Long
Stop reading psychotic Jewish fairy tales.
Asher Gomez
-God made Lucifer to test mankind -Thus ultimately God is testing mankind -In order to have a proper test, you have to give mankind free will
Sebastian Scott
None of which was mentioned.
Ryan Turner
The moral of the story: Jews are fucking paranoid about trust
Austin Rodriguez
There's many examples where God "tests" people in the Bible, but the story of Abraham sacrificing Isaac is one of the rare situations where loyalty is tested by offering two contradicting commands. My guess is that Abraham's personal revelation he received > the law for not killing, since the command was addressed specifically for him. Since God does know the outcome of every situation, one could argue that all commandments are pointless, but perhaps being tested is just an essential part of a religious lifestyle.
William Hughes
Also, since you are a "Christian," you should know about the scripture about humanity being created in "God's image" which can be interpreted as allowing humanity to develop a moral compass, thus sin is able to exist.
Also, humanity has the ability to chose between many options, which some would argue is another characteristic about how we were created in God's image.
Remember that sin was a by-product of humanity, therefore any suffering could be pointed towards our own existence, since we have the ability to chose and differentiate what we consider right from wrong.
The Christian God is different from others deities, as it allows for humans to have what we consider, freedom, although we do not have free will (as you cannot teleport, fly, etc. if you wanted to).
You are also making implications that God wouldn't want a human to experience anything to build up their character, although God would know the outcome, at our end of the spectrum, we have to experience problems to build ourselves up.
Without any problems, you will not have any solutions, and everything would be irrelevant (including our existence).
Jaxson Morales
Some bullshit about free will or something. Christianity is a load of crap, but god damn is it necessary to prevent degeneracy in the majority of human populace.
William Diaz
>First of all if God is all knowing and all powerful why would he need to test Abraham if he would already know the outcome?
Free Will.
>Also why subject an innocent son to the wrath of his father seeing and hearing visions? And is murder not a sin? Is God not requesting sin in this story?
It was a test of faith in Gods original promise that Abrahams defendants would be great in number. (obviously can't happen if he kills his only son) People often assume that it must have been scary etc for Abraham and Isaac but they had faith that God would fulfill his original promise which meant the God wouldn't allow Isaac to be killed.
Jack Moore
It was mentioned later in the bible. The bible was written for future generations.
Jack Bell
>Book of Job >Not meant to be in the bible. Absolutely Heretical.
Juan Collins
His faith was strengthened through the test.
Daniel Cook
HOLY SHIT THAT PIC
Benjamin Diaz
Abraham demonstrates his devotion to the spiritual (God) over the material (his son). His hesitance represents the lure of the material, and of believing that it's either the only world or the superior world.
Abraham's ultimate decision to make the sacrifice represents the unique ability of man to override his instincts and act according to a higher law that he can sense (through the fruit of the tree). The favor he receives for a true willingness to carry through is symbolic of the reward that people who elevate the spiritual above the material receive.
Nathan Hughes
>I'm a Christian >makes God look like a psychopath
God is Jewish
Jacob James
Nowhere does it say god is all knowing or all powerful you're just displaying your ignorance of theology.
Blake Howard
it contradicts every other verse in the bible
there isn't a single other time God does anything like what happens in Jon
God is never described talking to Satan in any book in the bible except Job
it's also the oldest book in the Bible by a lot
it's completely disconnected from the rest of the Bible time line and there's no reference to it ever again
its message is completely worthless (in fact It's counterproductive) and there's no reason to believe it ever happened
Connor Baker
in Job*
Josiah Davis
>First of all if God is all knowing and all powerful why would he need to test Abraham if he would already know the outcome?
Perhaps Abraham and Isaac needed to see the outcome.
David Myers
It was originally a VW Beetle.
Owen Parker
i liked the part where god told the jews to go to canaan and kill every man, woman, and child. wish he would do that again
Julian Thomas
does his son not have a spirit?
Mason Howard
That's not true at all. In the New Testament Paul says we need to acknowledge our sins to Christ and ask for forgiveness for our Adversary goes before the throne of God to accuse us before Him.
Jaxson Gonzalez
Why are you questioning God? I want you to do me a favour. Find me ONE man whom would question his lights turning on. Or whom would question that his computer could definitely shitpost for him before it does it. You won't find any. Guys like you on the other hand? Dime a dozen. >t. faggot
John Perez
This post is made to distract you from the fact that the Bible is just mythology.
Don't fall for it.
Easton Johnson
Because you moronic retard. Man is given free will. So god cannot predict what you will do.
Asher Harris
doesn't matter what Paul says that isn't what happens
Satan is not able to go back to heaven and that is only one (inaccurate) translation
Lincoln Harris
To always listen
Kevin Torres
uh, it's to prove he isn't a false god. Moloch for example WOULD have you sacrifice your children, God would not
Parker Ward
moloch sounds pretty cool where can i learn more about him?
Michael White
This... i got it when i was 9 years old
Lincoln Edwards
Also just because God knew the outcome Abraham didn't thus he learned something he needed to know about himself
James Hall
Both this and the story of job are about devotion. Whether you take it literally or as a parable. Taken literally it's using penis cutting as a new way to sacrifice to show devotion to god. Taken as a moral less it's about the fact that Abraham Is more than willing to do anything for god and seeing that is enough for god.
Cameron Sanders
Heretic. Satan might have watched the creation plans of woman. Satan is called the adversary. The accuser. He is constantly bitching about us and Christ must always intercede. God is in control of everything. You breathe due to His having breathed into Adam. The devil can only do that which God allows. These are basic concepts.
Charles Parker
To force submission
Liam Ramirez
He does but God has no intention of killing Isaac. Isaac's death is not a possible outcome.
Also, if Isaac were to die, he would be taken into God's kingdom - freed of the material. That is a reward, not a punishment, since the material world is false and leads us away from our higher natures.
Another way to look at this is that Isaac is the property of Abraham until he comes of age, and he has a right to sacrifice him. Though of course this represents the old way that is replaced at this very test.
Hunter Anderson
It is very simple. God foresaw Isaac making both choices because God doesn't experience our lives linearly. Ultimately Isaac made one absolute decision of his volition.
Thomas Bell
>What is the point of the story of Abraham being asked by God to kill and sacrifice his son Isaac?
This is as good an explanation of the Abraham-Isaac story as I've seen:
>moloch sounds pretty cool where can i learn more about him?
Just ask Hillary and Podesta, they will be glad to introduce you to him.
William Rivera
Says it in several different parts of the Bible.
Asher Allen
That's a part of it. Another part is that God wanted Abraham to put aside the thing he loved more than anything else and love God, the giver of the gift, more than the gift itself. And Abraham had faith in God that even if he had to go through with it God had already established a covenant through Isaac so Isaac would have to be resurrected after the sacrifice (Jesus was the new covenant). It's a really important story. I'm surprised Jordan Peterson hasn't ever spoken about it.
Bentley Cox
gives you magicks man
Jackson Mitchell
You're wrong and blind. This is not an act of domination over Abraham by God. This is Abraham wrestling with a choice in what he believes. If God is real, and exists with the properties Abraham believed him to have, then choosing to kill Isaac was correct.
Another way to say this is that God DEMANDED that Abraham question him. He demanded that Abraham make the choice. This is the complete opposite of what you imply - that God is not to be questioned.
Juan Cook
And as Abraham’s readiness to perform the sacrifice showed his faith in the future resurrection of his son, that the promises might be fulfilled, so God the Father had His Son sacrificed in virtue of the divine decree for the Resurrection of Christ that would fulfill the promises of blessing to the human race. This parallel is discussed in Hebrews 11:17–19, which mentions that Abraham believed that God was able to raise Isaac from the dead: “By faith Abraham, when he was tested, offered up Isaac, and he who had received the promises was ready to offer up his only begotten son, of whom it was said, ‘Through Isaac shall your descendants be named.’ He considered that God was able to raise men even from the dead; hence he did receive him back and this was a symbol.” The word “sym - bol” in Hebrews 11:19 is equivalent to “type.” Abraham’s faith in God’s power to raise Isaac from the dead was a type of faith in the Resurrection of Christ. Thus the fact that Isaac was not actually immolated, but was restored to Abraham, is seen by the Letter to the Hebrews as a type of the Resurrection by which Christ was restored after His real immolation.
Abraham is therefore a figure of all Christians who believe in the Resurrection of the Messiah.
>Why would he need to test Abraham He didn't. We, meanwhile, needed the lesson.
>Is God not requesting sin in this story? Sort of why he stopped Abraham.
Bentley Young
Right. You have to choose. Not choosing is not a possibility. Once you see God, as Abraham did, you can't possibly avoid the choice.
Evan Gonzalez
>What is the point of the story of Abraham being asked by God to kill and sacrifice his son Isaac?
It was meant to convey to ancient Jews that God didn't want human sacrifice and he'd be content with animal sacrifice
Like much of the old testament it has little to no relevance to modern people.
Xavier Anderson
see the old testament has alot of jewish schemes and trickery like jacob stealing esau inheritence, incest with lot, and abram pretending his wife was his sister to fuck with people
Kevin Edwards
for real though i've never heard someone dispute the validity of the book of job before, only the book of esther
David Flores
Read Kierkegaard
Josiah Adams
Don't question your religion unless you want to lose it.
Austin Davis
>intercession you Catholic heretics are the true enemy
Kayden Diaz
To give a proof that Jesus is the Messiah. Let's remember the conversation between Abraham and Isaac:
7 And Isaac spake unto Abraham his father, and said, My father: and he said, Here am I, my son. And he said, Behold the fire and the wood: but where is the lamb for a burnt offering?
8 And Abraham said, My son, God will provide himself a lamb for a burnt offering: so they went both of them together. ... 13 And Abraham lifted up his eyes, and looked, and behold behind him a ram caught in a thicket by his horns: and Abraham went and took the ram, and offered him up for a burnt offering in the stead of his son.
The ram caught in a thicket symbolises the crown of thorns on Jesus, the lamb of God. All foretold thousands of years earlier.
God tested Abraham, and Abraham believed God, even so much that he believed God was able to raise Isaac from the dead, as Hebrews 11 tells us:
17By faith Abraham, when he was tried, offered up Isaac: and he that had received the promises offered up his only begotten son, 18Of whom it was said, That in Isaac shall thy seed be called: 19Accounting that God was able to raise him up, even from the dead; from whence also he received him in a figure.
Adam Young
semite religions ask you to worship god over your own offspring
just say no to semite religions
Bentley Garcia
A lot of people say that everything has tits. I dont limit any of the MALE spiritual beings or The Trinity. Or my interpretations. At all. Many men in history haven't done this. That's fine. To each their own in a way. But I'll still speak. Or that we used to be trannies and God procreates the soul He doesn't create anything blah blah. An user above said free will. Ok. I kind of doubt free will. I'm all about not imposing man-stuff on God. That user said we have it so that God "cannot" predict that which we do. I on the other hand don't think in these ways.
Jason Hall
Abraham told Issac when he went up the mountain, you can read it the other way too in the hebrew but I was always taught that it meant that Isaac knew.
And Abraham said, My son, God will provide himself a lamb for a burnt offering: so they went both of them together.
Kjv
now this is minenot the fanciest or anything but you will understand why it can be taken the other way.
And Abraham said, God will see it to himself a lamb for the burnt offering (is) my son, and they went together.
(Is) because it's not in the text itself but it is implied. Anyways it sounds awkward but you can take it that way.
And Abraham said unto his young men, Abide ye here with the ass; and I and the lad will go yonder and worship, and come again to you. Straigtforward
By faith Abraham, when he was tried, offered up Isaac: and he that had received the promises offered up his only begotten son,
18 Of whom it was said, That in Isaac shall thy seed be called:
19 Accounting that God was able to raise him up, even from the dead; from whence also he received him in a figure. Saint Paul repeats
anyways both were willing and at least Abhraham understood that Isaac would come back from the dead. And Abraham has already seen some miraculous shit so I've never seen an issue with this verse
Isaiah James
Sincerity of your questions aside, this is a major problem with Christianity today. Many questions like this have been brought up and answers have been offered, or attempted, hundreds of years ago in some cases. But Christians today can't possibly wrap their head or hearts around basic and fundamental ideas of their beliefs. They'd rather the clergy do the heavy lifting like reading and understanding the Bible for them rather than working out their faith in fear and trembling.
Oliver Lewis
great minds think alike
Easton Diaz
The old ament is about as logical as egyptian mythology. Basically dont ther asking, as it is all steeped in metaphor, translated from a dead language to greek, again from latin, and again to english. The old testament is literally fairy tales at times
Wyatt Sullivan
Nice of you to finally show up my atheist brother
Connor Jones
Moses is a prophet, God spoke to him and told him of the miracles that would be performed, and so they were.
Gabriel Sanchez
Job is one of the best books in the Bible, it explores faith, human fragility, forgiveness, and devotion- pretty much everything the Bible talks about as a whole.
Liam Cook
God gives free will to humanity, wants them to have free will consistently to test them. >he still needs to create them for it to HAPPEN despite seeing everything to the end of time. God could help you directly >Without free will God could literally get rid of evil entirely >Without free will
The Choice to be evil is a difference in being unwillfully forced to be good. That itself is the TEST.
being Willfully good, is a lot better than being forced to be. That's the particular way god wanted it.
Consciousness is being able to DIRFFERENTIATE alternative choices and deciding what to do based upon what you want to do at the current moment.
You can say is all subjective and we have no free will,
no free will actually undermines the whole
Cause and effect theory.
In order for their actually to have a direct cause that limits action to 1 linear but seemingly all over list of events there has to be a driving set of rules that never break. If I was conscious enough to know of its existence, than I was be stating a Therefore because of it fallacy. Meaning I'm saying the past was supposed to happen because the past, and I know the future because the past. We can only predict and never actually know anything, uncertain and yet conscious enough to differentiate. HMMMMMM Something not quite right here anons.
Logan Foster
Its actually a hint at the fact that Abraham may have worshipped Baal, because sacrificing the firstborn was part of Baal worship. Having an angel come and stop it from happening could have been the moment when the Lord interfered and sent in another sacrifice so save his line.
Interestingly enough, in Islam, it was Ishmael that was about to be sacrificed, and an angel saved him. In this logic, when one death could have prevented so much pain and suffering, it could even be the devil interfering...
Jaxon Wright
God is a psychopath. Doesn't make he God any less
Austin Jackson
Suuure, satan...
Nathan Cook
Hm, that's a very interesting way to put it user.
Joseph Hernandez
As heretical as this user may seem, he may be onto something. Now we know that Judaism got a lot of its early lore from the Zoroastrians. could this book have been part of that lore?
Michael Martinez
I would add the supporting information that angels are always good, but don't have free will. We were created to be different. As were Djinn (in Islam).
That bit about Baal is very interesting and I'd never thought of it quite like that. I think it's clear that this Baal worship and the sacrifice of children persists among modern Jews. Perhaps this schism goes all the way back to Abraham's time. I mean, maybe they the Moloch worshippers today didn't convert, but have an unbroken line to this time. Perhaps never joining Abraham, or perhaps continuing their traditions in secrecy.
Jonathan King
It was before he gave the 10 commandments you dope
Kevin Cruz
I honestly do not have a problem with atheists who accept the importance of the Christian faith to western civilization. I mean agnosticism is obviously less edgy and arrogant but whatever.
Fedora teir atheists are just as "blind" in their acceptance of government regulated "science".
Ayden Morris
You're forgetting that this is the Old Testament and that these are Jews.
The Old Testament God isn't the same as the New Testament God. The old God is the god of the Jews, the new God is the god of the Christians.
Not saying I believe in either.
Jack Walker
The entire history of the Hebrews was them secretly (and sometimes openly) worshipping Baal and Ishtar and getting punished for it over and over. Again, the more interesting part at this point is the fact that Islam teaches that it was Ishmael (the father of all arabs) who was about to be sacrificed.
Michael Sanchez
Angels have free will. They are on the side of God. Demons, however, are fallen angels, with the first being Lucifer, who leads the rest
Blake Bennett
The point of the Binding of Isaac is to separate and disallow human sacrifice from Judaism (and by extension, Christianity).
Zachary Turner
This. After reading both the old testament and the new one, I came to the conclusion that there were different entities being worshipped by the Hebrews at different times. One is violent and vengeful, and the other is loving and forgiving. One caused them to wage war, and the other to pacify.
Isaac Morales
God was testing Abraham's free will, as all human beings have, you might want to read the bible once in your life, senpai, it will help with understanding these sorts of things
Kevin Smith
The free will of humans is what caused the fall of lucifer. When the Angels heard that man had free will, but they didn't, some of them rebelled.
Jose Parker
How did they rebel without free will?
Robert Hughes
It's about Abraham falling for Moloch's tricks and the angel telling him to btfo and chill out