Afterlife

Is there a heaven Sup Forums?

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en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Bounce
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loop_quantum_cosmology
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bell's_theorem
youtube.com/watch?v=dzKWfw68M5U
youtube.com/watch?v=xHNFYgPPRLY
youtube.com/watch?v=PpJoM1Yvm-Y
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Is there "life"?

Also, sauce?

www.teamfortress.com you nitwit.

Yes and no those who believe usually see it those who don't see the abyss that's how are universe works.

No, and you also don't have free will. Get over it. The best you can hope for is that the universe goes Big Bounce and that Bell's Theorem is correct because then you will live the same life over and over ad infinitum.

Explain

Haha, he thinks there is no escape

There is, it's just harder than you can imagine

Yup, and you're already in it.

>implying it's not an endless loop of rebirthing
>implying the period between death and when you're reborn isn't spent spectating the world
>implying the light is good

not like you imagine

I don't know NDE are unreliable as its Non-believers and Believers claim what they saw to be true

Well first of all to respond to your post, what do the people who die in nuclear bombs see? If you pulled the pin on a grenade and put it in your mouth would you "see" something when there isn't time for you to "be dying" before you are splattered on the wall?

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Bounce
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loop_quantum_cosmology
>The universe might collapse.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bell's_theorem
>If true, then the "random quantum fluctuations" that physicists go on about are not random at all, but simply rely on variables that we cannot know and never will (because we'd have to know the initial conditions of the universe). It's a bit 'childish' to say "Since we cannot predict it, it must be random". Unfortunately, there is only so far that empiricism can take us (for cosmology) before we must apply logical deduction and philosophy.
If both of these assumptions (and yes, they must remain assumptions) are true, and the universe is a closed system (law of conservation of energy), then the universe following the Big Bounce would be exactly the same as this one down to this thread. People talk about the universe being "infinite", but in reality it is not. They also talk about the Big Bang and ignore the fact that there is a distinct amount of energy there that is not infinite.

>Is there a heaven Sup Forums?
yes

No? Explain is Heaven not a cloud city

redpill me on tom jones

no. you die, then you shit your pants

Yes. There is an afterlife. There is a reason why you were born. Read the Bible my friend, it's the ultimate redpill.

Its called isreal

checked

>implying that light isn't falsified by the moon to trick you into another birth rather than achieving moksha

Infinite complexity

Fuck heaven, I'm going to San Junipero.

>Is there a heaven Sup Forums?
Yes. It's called USA.

>tfw Zyzz will never descend from the heavens and tell you we're all gonna make it brah

why live

This.

Face the truth pussies.

Australians don't believe in heaven

There is always space for an extra-universal being (only word for it is God) that is not tied to our universe and can effect it beyond what is its natural outcome (assuming no randomness, bell's theorem, big bounce, that no energy is created or destroyed between singularity and collapse). There could also be extra-universal forces (perhaps dark matter is the web in which our universe sits). Probably not.
Infinity exists in theory (how many numbers are between 1.1 and 2?) but not in nature.

heaven is a half pipe

I had a dream of heaven

>2016
>msm shilling in full force
>lefty celebrities teaming up and trying to influence their fans
>colleges indoctrinating 10x harder
>foreign govts and (((them))) using shekels against Trump
Trump winning was a miracle and divine intervention so yeah

Yes but only 144,000 selected humans will be able to get into it when His Day comes.

The rest of us will stay here on Earth though at that time, conditions will be as they were before Eve sinned.

The Devil, his demons, and anyone who doesn't repent will be locked in "the abyss".

The REAL question is:

Will you repent?

In metaphysical sense? It's up to you to decide.
In a sense of being at peace in your last moments in life, which will becone your "eternity"? Yes.
As a real physical place? Probably no.

Fractals

>you will live the same life over and over ad infinitum
I hope not

N O S T A L G I C

That's cause we live in it.

I believe so

No, there is just more of this.

And if you try to end it early, it just gets worse.

Over the course of a few cycles you may unlock the potential to cease existing, but most of us are locked here due to our desires.

The world is in the hands of the wicked.

For some reason we were given free-will and the ability to reflect infinitely inward. That fact that humans can imagine a world without free-will, relatively easily with no real creative premise shows the passing of inherent genes from parent to offspring. Similar to a doe knowing how to walk straight out the womb we're able to perceive exactly what a world can be without free-will, its ancillary evidence supporting quantum mechanics.

If free-will is the 3d dimension we experience, its safe to assume a 2d dimension is one devoid of choice, organisms are given one objective unable to question their existence, they're controlled by a higher power.

If this is true there must be a dimension higher than our own that we cant perceive due to lack of knowledge or consciousness.

If 2d is an objective answer and 3d is a subjective question, whats past that?

...

Heaven? Likely not. An afterlife? In at least some form, there would is, I'm sure.
Now, while I'm not a religious person by any means, science does state that energy cannot truly be destroyed, only change between states, so after death the makeup of your being will invariably somehow make it back into the material fold, even it's an abstract existence that we can't comprehend. It's not as comforting a thought as ascending to a higher plane of existence with all your achievements intact, but rebirth in some form may exist. There's simply nowhere for us to go after we die but to change states.

I dont know.

Why don't you read The Bible and make your own decisions?

Honest leaf. That's unusual.
Good answer though.

Borde-Guth-Vilenkin theorem lad. Such a cycle would have to have a beginning and an end.

Satire.

youtube.com/watch?v=dzKWfw68M5U

tldr
If there'are infinite alternative reality
you are just randomly choosing a path
you are not making a "decision"

Alright lets see if anyone agrees with me when I write this:

Before you are born, you are nothing, you cease to exist
After being born, you live your life, you have conscious
Once you die, thats it, you are now "nothing"
But how does one know that you are nothing?
If you cease to have consciousness you obviously cant know that you are dead
So in order to have consciousness, you must be alive
If you were nothing before birth, then become something, then go back to being nothing, then shouldnt you be something again?

Our minds are purely energy. When we die, we return to the infinite potentiality of the energy pool of the universe - better known as Kek.

But to answer your question using non-question/answer terminology: Paradox is how you would "see" 4th dimension.

You see examples of it in toroids, quantum applications, etc.

It's a murky thing, because it contains falsehoods and truths in the same dimension.

I unironically believe something like this, Once we die we all kind of just merge into a celestial hive-mind, Losing our individuality but technically still alive

your life is either heaven or hell to some degree.
afterlife? nope.

Do we keep our consciousness? I wouldn't give a shit unless I am aware of it.

Not in nature, though? the broccoli thing isn't an infinite fractal.
It presents the ultimate Pascal's wager. Will you make your existence the best it can possibly be? It means that our larger-scale goal should be more life on more planets and also in the sense of longer life.
Of course it does. Doesn't change anything. If a being made our universe, and gave us "eternal life", this could be the first or last iteration, doesn't change the physics. If God wanted to end the universe, reform it into a new one, then so be it. We cannot ever test for that.

Possibly. we will never know till we know and by then it will be too late.

I guess that would coincide with double slit theory and young's interference.

Its a mind freezing paradox that cant be explained given the information presented. Theres no tool to measure the breaking of particle physics.

If a neutrino can pass through anything with no objective path guided only by earths gravitational pull, why does it abide by the rules of gravity in the first place.

A 4th dimension wouldn't answer the question but simply get rid of it entirely.

youtube.com/watch?v=xHNFYgPPRLY

Our consciousness is a product of the energy state produced within our brains.

Being dead is the same experience as not being born yet; ie, consciousness as we know it does not exist.

It does reveal some odd properties of energy though - namely, that when put into input processing and storage frameworks made of physical matter, energy can become an observer of the universe with direct control over matter it can physically reach using its own 'puppet' of matter (your body), rather than simply the driving force behind everything in the universe. Like it's a fundamental property of energy, even if it seems weird - if you put it in the right physical framework, energy becomes sentient.

>consciousness as we know it does not exist.
THIS.
"We are not more conscious than an ant, just more complex" -me, right now

So that would mean that there is a transcript of every position (relative to another, and another, and yet another) of every quark throughout all of space/time? If the Universe is infinite, then that would mean that the transcript is, itself, infinite (doesn't have to be corporeal, but the mere existence of that knowledge is enough to constitute "destiny", undoing free will). That would also mean that there are infinite versions of me doing the same thing, something different, etc.
Afterlife, I'm not so sure. I think it is useful to set objective morals and punishment for those who deviate, but I'm not sure because I can't prove it. I can't prove the existence of that transcript that undoes free will, I'm not sure how mortal man can wrap his mind around these concepts. Can it be proven that the knowledge of the Universe and its future is dynamic or pre-determined?

Dunno. Either way though this faggot is going to miss out.

Still, the thought of not being conscious terrifies me, I know it is illogical because I won't be conscious to care, but I still get a very deep fear.

>why does it abide by the rules of gravity in the
first place.

Who says it does?

Just because it conforms to rules for a time, does not mean it must always be so.

>he's still stuck on the kindergarten-tier question about the "afterlife"

yes, when you die you get teleported to another dimension where you live with all your friends in family forever

i cant believe adults believe this shit

>theorotical physics

jewish tier bullshit that im fucking sick off. people can wax fantastic about shit all day long that has little more going for it than religion. where is the practical benefit to this? thats the white mans question

>transcript
What did you mean by this? Like somebody is doing the math of the universe? No, it just happens. Math is a human invention. You are speaking leaf. There are not infinite versions of you. There is just one, and it will always be a leaf.
To be clear: To access the positions of quantum energy, you'd have to run a simulation of the universe. This would require the impossible knowledge of initial conditions. It would also require a computer that could simulate every atom and thus the computer must be LARGER THAN THE UNIVERSE.

Same, man.

I've seen a few priests about it. The most calming thing I got out of it:
>I explain the gist of determinism
>Padre: "If you're really uhh... you know, the robot thing, then why do you care?"
>Me: "Maybe that's just the wiring; fear of death is a motivator gone haywire in this case."

Then he chuckled. The smile on his face seemed to imply all the things I'm looking for could be found. Talk to a priest, user.

I thought you live in Hell

>Land Down Under
>Everything tries to kill you
>Even the weather
>Emus take your wimminz
>Magpies take your eyes and/or scalps
>Spiders big enough for HP bars and to cause car accidents
>Abbos
>other Aussies

me irl :(

I am no physicist, but I know that theoretical physics is nothing like religion and does not need to replace it. There is no need (and should be no want) to replace or supercede the teachings of Jesus. What I am postulating ITT (read my posts) is that there is a great spiritual conclusion to our understanding of physics and that it 100% compliments Christianity.

>What did you mean by this?
The existence, in any fashion, of pre-determined knowledge that undoes the concept of free will.
>Like somebody is doing the math of the universe?
What? No.
>No, it just happens
Well, if it's just a double-pendulum chaos thing from top-down, then there is no pre-determined knowledge of where everything will be at point x with respect to point y at time z. So atom x^y is not known to be at some specific point. Therefore, free will, to some degree, exists, at least for the menial. Stars will always follow some path to decay, be it a supernova, neutron star, or a black hole. But if there is not pre-determined knowledge that dictates the atoms of a red shirt I own will meet with the atoms of my body (i.e. I wear a red shirt tomorrow), then the non-existence of that knowledge means that I can choose to wear a blue shirt and not deviate from the pre-determined knowledge, as that information would always reign supreme, be it known or unknown to me (i.e. I'd wear a red shirt and think I did it myself or whatever, but that is what was known).

The laws of the universe might imply eternal life in the form of a recurring universe that is always the same. If you do have an afterlife, what happens at the end of the universe? Maybe god pulls a quantum copy of you out of the universe into a place where time does not exist.

...

>The existence, in any fashion, of pre-determined knowledge that undoes the concept of free will.
Except if you read my response, you would know that no human or alien could ever possibly acquire this knowledge. How can the theoretical existence of a physical pre-destination somehow undo determinism?
> if there is not pre-determined knowledge that dictates the atoms of a red shirt I own will meet with the atoms of my body
there IS A PRE-DETERMITNTED KNOWLEDGE, you'd jsut need a computer larger than the universe to access that knowledge. You move through life like a rock through the void. You are not more conscious than an ant, just more complex.

>Math is a human invention
Well, math is the language of the Universe. It is observed all around us. We use it to describe the Universe around us. The notation might be arbitrary (might as well use some other symbol for addition or whatever), but the purpose is not arbitrary.
>You are speaking leaf. There are not infinite versions of you. There is just one, and it will always be a leaf.
If the Universe is finite. If it isn't, then there are infinite copies of the Earth, infinite conversations you and I are having, infinite everything. Never-ending, without beginning or end.
>This would require the impossible knowledge of initial conditions. It would also require a computer that could simulate every atom and thus the computer must be LARGER THAN THE UNIVERSE.
Precisely my point, there are just a few (to say the least) limiting factors when it comes to accessing this information. That's why we can make educated (sorta) guesses and inferences based on logical deduction, not much more with proofs. For example, I can say that we exist in some form. If we exist, then we do not stand non-existent. If there is to be a definitional and principled difference between existence and non-existence, then there must be necessary consequences of those two concepts existing outside of one another. There must be a line separating these two concepts. By definition, creation (to bring (something) into existence) is the line drawn in the sand. Things that exist must have first been set into motion.

>you would know that no human or alien could ever possibly acquire this knowledge.
I know, my man. My response was too long to fit in and I make that clear in the second half.
>there IS A PRE-DETERMITNTED KNOWLEDGE, you'd jsut need a computer larger than the universe to access that knowledge.
The absence of evidence is not the presence of evidence. There may very well be what you say, but unless you can show absolute evidence or present a framework of axioms logical enough to be taken as truth, then you can't say that. The proofs are out the window because of natural limitations, though.
>You move through life like a rock through the void. You are not more conscious than an ant, just more complex.
Where are the ant Bachs, or Rembrandts? We aren't rocks. We have a central nervous system, and ours is much more complex than that of an ant.

I know it is hard to fathom that you don't have free will, but it is so. If you pull out a coin in a moment, it will be because of an extraordinarily complex thread of time says you will. The physical universe dictates your form, how you flip the coin, the air pressure in the room, how it falls, how you catch it, how you turn it, etc.

This image is blasphemy, it's a graven image! You need to charge whoeve publishsd it with fines.

Right, because empiricism has its limits if there are some things we can never test or observe. We must rely on logical deduction.
>Where are the ant Bachs, or Rembrandts? We aren't rocks. We have a central nervous system, and ours is much more complex than that of an ant.
I just stated previously that you are more complex than an ant, but not any more conscious. Consciousness isn't quantifiable but you might be able to make a good logical case for humans being "more conscious". Maybe. Being Bach or Rembrandt doesn't require being any more conscious than an ant. It requires a more complex brain.

I hope there is. I don't know and can't possibly know it

>I know it is hard to fathom that you don't have free will, but it is so.
My man, I'm completely open to proofs, I'm asking of you to provide me with your logical framework, that's all.
>If you pull out a coin in a moment, it will be because of an extraordinarily complex thread of time says you will. The physical universe dictates your form, how you flip the coin, the air pressure in the room, how it falls, how you catch it, how you turn it, etc.
You couldn't have picked a better example. Coin flips are not dependent upon my will, of course there are many factors. The makeup of the coin, the force I apply: all these things (as well as what you stated) determine the result, not my "I want this to be that" arbitrary thoughts. I'm saying that there is either knowledge (we have already established that it is unverifiable via natural limitations; pre-determined knowledge of 'x' with respect to 'y' at time 'z' undoing free will) that I will wear a red shirt tomorrow or I have the free will to deviate from the knowledge and choose to wear a blue shirt.
Or it could be that I choose to flip-flop between colours and end up with blue (thinking that I have arrived at the conclusion independently), even though that was what was determined to occur all along. Much more unsettling and may very well be the case.
>We must rely on logical deduction.
Correct.
>but not any more conscious.
Insofar as we can respond to our environment/stimuli, yes. We are conscious, the ant will recognize when I lift it up and put it down, increase/decrease pressure, light differences, etc. Just as we do. There are animals that vary between levels of consciousness, though.
>Consciousness isn't quantifiable
Well, it kind of is. I define it as: the state of being awake and aware of one's surroundings. There are many different methods of quantifying the environment around us. The electromagnetic spectrum, sound, pressure, temperature, response to pain, etc.
>last point
Yup, my bad

Of course there is, read the bible.
There is an afterlife in Heaven, or the second death in Hell

Revelation 20:6
Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

youtube.com/watch?v=PpJoM1Yvm-Y

Now you can choose whether or not to trust him.

What will it be like outside of Time if you don't have the sequence of events you find within Time?

Right....you seriously believe in it? Like for real?

Yes, the bible is the word of God
I believe every single word of the bible

Read the gnostic texts, spit in the faces of fedoras or cucktolics

Catholics aren't Christian, they're a pagan religion invented by Constantine who bastardised God's text and introduced the very first man made doctrines

k
still catholic tho bro.

Spit in the face of any bible believer

The bible is the word of God, I'm not surprised atheists reject common sense
Bow to your idols
Pray like a heathen does
Communicate with the dead
Put others ABOVE GOD!
If all these sound good to you I have bad news for you

Only for those that die in battle may enter the halls of Valhalla

You keep saying "my will" like I have accepted that yes, you indeed do have a will. You have to prove that you have will and that it is not the physical universe compelling you.
Here is some logical framework:

Skyrim is just a game

We need another El Cid.

>Bow to your idols
I don't worship any idols as God.
>Pray like a heathen does
I pray normally.
>Communicate with the dead
Christians don't die.
>Put others ABOVE GOD!
God who created us is above all.

Watch that episode of futurama where idiot, robot, and old guy go through time in a time machine and the universe repeats over and over.

Your Pope does

>I pray normally
Good, so you don't use a rosary?

Matthew 6:7
But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking.

There is the first death when you enter heaven or Hell, when you pray to saints you're communicating with those who've gone through the first death. The bible says mediums should be stoned, your Pope who probably prayed to some God of Luck I mean Saint of Luck should be stoned according to the bible!

Why is Jesus, a man considered a God? Hercules isn't a real story, why are you trying to use your Roman legend and Christianise it? Constantine introduced the trinity in the 4th century, the early church did NOT believe in the trinity!

Also why do you consider Mary the Queen of Heaven?

I'm not atheist.
Curious that in your book on cuckoldry jesus says to give to the poor and in mine jesus says that alms damage the spirit.
When are you going to do a miracle?

>
Matthew 6:7
But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking.
Why do you get your definition of the texts?
It could mean many things, context is what gives it definition.