Invade in preprepared a surprise attack

>invade in preprepared a surprise attack
>have a highly mobile and experienced army
>capture nearly all of the populous/industrial areas before the Soviets manage to rally together
>still lose

How the fuck did the Nazis lose to the Soviets on the Eastern Front? it makes no sense to me. How did the Soviets manage to rally together and take the fight to the Germans ending up in Berlin before the Allies?

Don't give me the human wave tactic bullshit. It's a fact that most of the Soviets who died died in German captivity. Somehow though the Soviets managed to plug the gaps in their lines with Japan in their far East, and Germany controlling many of their population centres.

Other urls found in this thread:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Battle_of_Kharkov
youtube.com/watch?v=BTMlT7yafg4
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_Army_(Wehrmacht)
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_encirclements_of_Soviet_forces_during_Operation_Barbarossa
twitter.com/NSFWRedditGif

Pic is fake

explain

>How the fuck did the Nazis lose to the Soviets on the Eastern Front?

Their entire, 6th army got cut off during winter. 250,000 soldiers, GONE.

Endless untermensch thrown at the enemy= win

>what is winter?

They weren't blessed with resource cheat codes (lend lease) like the Russians were.

>On 27 June, the 2nd and 3rd Panzer Groups met near Minsk and captured the city the next day, completing the encirclement of almost all of the Western Front in two pockets: one around Białystok and another west of Minsk. The Germans destroyed the Soviet 3rd and 10th Armies while inflicting serious losses on the 4th, 11th and 13th Armies, and reported to have captured 324,000 Soviet troops, 3,300 tanks, 1,800 artillery pieces.

The Soviets lost an entire front in the opening days. 250000 men is nothing.

Except they were. Lend Lease had absolutely nothing to do with them winning the Eastern Front, neither did the Soviets themselves, they ONLY lost because of winter attrition and damage to communication/supply lines.

Hitler over-extended his soldiers without properly maintaining their supply routes, allowing the Russians to swoop in from behind, taking out the lesser trained conscripts covering their flanks, encircling them, and then destroying the 6th army, which had no means of being reinforced or resupplied, during a very harsh winter.

The German Reich had a superior population to the Soviet union in winter 1941.

France and Poland, as well as the important regions of the Soviet union were under their control.

Was Stalingrad really such a big deal to the Germans?

Why didn't they manage to replace their losses like the Soviets did?

You can argue about it all you want, but the reason they lost is due to that. Battle of Stalingrad was more than just the 6th army though, they also had hundreds of thousands of other men with them, and the battle is the reason why the Eastern Front fell.

Once again, much like Napoleon, winter was the cause for the Russia's survival, not their military.

but the reason they lost the Eastern Front*

Gee I guess hitler shouldn't have forbidden the army to prepare winter uniforms

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Battle_of_Kharkov

The USSR lost 277000 troops in this one rather irrelevant battle. Why was it that the Soviets could replace their losses while the Germans failed?

Because Stalin didn't care about his people.

He literally thought of them as cannon fodder.

>How the fuck did the Nazis lose to the Soviets on the Eastern Front?
Look up the amount of supplies the USA gave the commies.

It is absolutely mind-blowing. By the end of it, the Russians had more motorization and a modern equipment than the Germans. (Though by 1945, the German tech was on the cutting edge, the most advanced in the war, they didn't have the factories to produce everything they needed).

If the USA supported Germany, then communism would have been wiped out forever. But the USA is controlled by the same people who financed Lenin, so that woukd never have happened.

How did he get them fight then? Surely if that was the case the Soviet soldiers would have threw down their arms like they did in WW1.

The Soviets started and ended the war with more tanks than the rest of the world combined. Really makes you think. The USA definitely did contribute.

Soviet industrial evacuation was an important factor. Thousands of industrial enterprises were moved east.
The concept of Geman blitzkrieg is about penetrating quickly into enemy territory, destroy infrastructure and knock out the enemy, so he can't get up.
In case of Soviets, they moved industry east (oftenly at the expense of evacuating population), which along with lend-lease allowed Stavka equip reserve armies.
Then blitzkrieg turned into the war of attrition, where axis would have smaller gdp and longer supply lines.

Unlike the rest of the autists keepers in here I actually cared to read history books. Stalingrad was the nail in the coffin for the Germans. They pretty much lost the war after the first winter which costed them most of their experienced troops which had to be replaced by green men.

The soviets baited the Germans into Stalingrad by trickling divisions in tricking the Germans to think they were almost defeated. But they had been building reserves behind site to be used in operation Uranus which knocked out the rear troops guarding to flanks and supply lines of the 6th army stuck in Stalingrad.

The red army was superior in both doctrine and firepower to the Germans but their issue was a lot of their conscripts weren't familiar with modern technology. They were freaking out at the site of attack planes and tanks etc and took a lot of time to get used to it

Totalitarian regimes are great at mobilizing population. If the regime was different it would've been WW1 all over again.

Arrogant fuckers underestimate the ability of nation to resist. Guerrilla warfare >>> nazifaggots.

blocking detachments
>go forwards and you probably die
>go backwards and you definitely die
it's inhuman but it works

Is this as opposed to hitler who conscripted hitler youth to defend Berlin

>Unlike the rest of the autists keepers in here I actually cared to read history books. Stalingrad was the nail in the coffin for the Germans.

Congrats, I read Beevor's Stalingrad too.

>How did he get them fight then

A good portion of soviet casualties were from the officers mowing their own men down with machine guns as they tried to run away.

I'd estimate at least 1 or 2% of the casualties were due to that. That's a conservative estimate.

Overrated. Basically only happened at Stalingrad. Nazis did the same thing in Berlin

The Soviets had been arming since WW1 in preparation for a conquest of all of Europe. But even then, they were on the back foot until they began receiving the fruits of the most powerful and industrialized society in the world.

For every Russian army the Germans destroyed, the Russians had another 2 up their sleeve. They had plenty of industrial capacity beyond the territories controlled by Germany. it only took a few months for Soviet Industry to start out producing Germany

In short, the failure of Barbarossa to deliver a single knockout blow turned it into a war of attrition in which Russia had vastly superior manpower and greater industrial capacity.

Maybe it is because the west shipped massive amounts of foodstuffs and raw materials to the Soviet Union.

>How the fuck did the Nazis lose to the Soviets on the Eastern Front?
By losing 25% of Stuka pilots of the Luftwaffe over England in a retarded bombing campaign

Thanks for your estimate, idiot. We actually have access to the Soviet archives and the figure is closer to 10,000

That was the case in WW1 also though, and the Russian Empire soldiers threw down their arms none the less.

I think it's more to do with the brutality of the Nazis. The Soviet soldiers know what was happening in occupied territory, and knew what was in store for them if they surrendered. Hence many fought to the death in hopeless situations. There's a quote I remember which goes something like, "any sane person would surrender but these Russians fight to the death". Some of the stories of the bravery of Soviet soldiers are amazing. It's one of the greatest comebacks in history if not the greatest.

>Soviet archives

Hah, thanks for the laugh you fucking mongrel retard.

What's next, going to tell us the Soviet estimates for how many political assassinations Stalin carried out?

Russians don't hold any value to human life, including their own. They're like chinks, except Russians just want to watch the world burn.

The history of Russia is probably the darkest of any semi-civilized country I know, and they're fanous for dying 10 to 1 in every war but still winning. They drowned their enemies in bodies and freeze them in the winter. Russia is an AI controlled nation, not a playable race.

incompetent military leadership, inferior supply lines, and weaker tanks

Completely false. The USSR had over double Germany's population in 1941

>For every Russian army the Germans destroyed, the Russians had another 2 up their sleeve

Why was this the case though? in 1941 for instance the Germans had a larger population base. Soviet citizens still largely lived in rural farms. Many of them were far in the East.

THEY ALL GOT DRUNK AND MAD. THEN THEY GRABBED THEIR AK47'S AND BRED 50 CHILDREN, THEN THEY SEND THEIR 50 CHILDRENS 100 CHILDREN INTO BATTLE, DO NOT UNDERESTIMATE BIRTHRATES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Totally bullshit. It was the nazis that spent 6 years rebuilding their army. The red army just went through a massive purge of their officer core. And only just developed their new t34 and kv1 tanks. Absolutely not prepared and certainly not been preparing since ww1

>I think it's more to do with the brutality of the Nazis.
No, it has more to do with soviet propaganda.

The regime spun ridiculous stories like the holocaust about human skin lampshades and whatnot.

The Cossacks and Ukrainians (along with many other Russians) fought alongside the Germans as SS. These brave men were literally machine-gunned alongside their entire families by the commissars after the war. The German general Von Pannwitz willingly sacrificed his life to die alongside his Russian soldiers.

>Russians don't hold any value to human life

And the Germans did? 25% of the population of Belarus lay dead after the war. 1 in 4 people died because of the German mistreatment of civilians and PoW's. it was a fight for survival. The Soviets did what they had to.

>Surely the guberment will lie to itself
Hello, retard. I'm sure you haven't read any historical document in your life.

>the regime spun ridiculous stories

Speaking of which.

moron

there are a lot of fucking russians is how

the threat of you and your family being exterminated is a pretty good reason to fight

also the propaganda machine went "we russia. russia stronk. russia history. dont let uncle adolf take it away"

Hello chink-nigger-tard, I'm sure you've never actually questioned your glorious empires disgustingly inbred-monstrous past.

No they fucking didn't. Germany couldn't recruit the population of the areas they occupied, that was not 'German population' and wouldn't fight for the Germans. The efforts they did make to recruit population from occupied territories only produced a tiny number of divisions.

And by 1941 the USSR was already an industrial giant. It wasn't the impoverished backwater that Hitler, and it seems people like you still believe it was.

The archives were for their own record. They were briefly opened for our people to check out when the ussr collapsed. They are accurate and yes they kept record of everyone getting arrested etc but they didn't typically mention much more than "arrrested" which often meant gulag or executed immediately.

The thing is, we have the archives to access Soviet record keeping of their own crimes. You have absolutely nothing to replace it with other than "oh my estimate is 1-2% which I totally made up on the spot". Eat shit. Btw blocking detachments was almost exclusively at Stalingrad. Not really elsewhere

>slavs
>humans

Population of France: 35 million
Population of Poland: 35 million
Population of Germany: 71 million

Take away the population of the USSR occupied territories and you'll see that you are wrong.

>It was the nazis that spent 6 years rebuilding their army.
From a state of disarmament. The army size never recovered from Versailles, which was why Germany lost the war. They had less trained reservists than Russia.

>The red army just went through a massive purge of their officer core. And only just developed their new t34 and kv1 tanks. Absolutely not prepared and certainly not been preparing since ww1
The officer purge is due to political reasons. Communism calls for a global revolution and we saw exactly how expansionistic the SU was during WW2 and after. And, as one other poster pointed out, they had more tanks even than Germany

Most of those deaths are thanks to pow camps. The real rate in combat was closer to 1.3 Russians to every 1 German. Thank you for your pol educated input though you fucking goober

To go into more detail

The German strategy for war at this time relied on blitzkrieg. If you cannot capture supply lines quickly enough then your troops become stranded deep in enemy territory with many partisans behind them. The partisans will wage a guerilla war on you and weaken your supply lines. Add the extremely harsh winter of the Russian steppe into the equation and the German army stands no chance. Both sides took heavy losses, but the main pushing force only started happening once the Allies invaded on D-day. This relieved pressure on the eastern front and caused the German territory to collapse.

Germany didn't have reservists you faggot. They had a fully integrated army just as they did in ww1

Blitzkrieg worked well in the early parts of the war when Russia was unprepared but then they updated their doctrine to deep battle which is their own version of blitzkrieg. Pretty similar really. Germans became predictable though

Ok larpers I'm off. Naziboos btfo again

Not only are those population figures wrong, but they are also irrelevant. Do you think the Germans had a manpower pool of 70 million citizens from France and Poland, nations and people which they had just conquered as enemies and had pressed beneath their boot? Do you think that even if they could have recruited this population at gun point, it would have been wise to train and arm armies comprised of millions of Poles and French?

Ukraine alone equals to 30 million people. Take that away from the population of USSR and we are at 130 million. Add to that list the Baltic states. Belarus, Leningrad which had a population of 3.3 million alone. You will see that the USSR didn't trump the population of Germany by as much as you'd think.

>They are accurate and yes they kept record of everyone getting arrested etc but they didn't typically mention much more than "arrrested" which often meant gulag or executed immediately.

The "arrests" they made were few and far between, other-wise we would've seen wide-spread arrests for all the rapes and murders that happened at/after the battle of Berlin, of which we saw very little, and of the officers that were still alive, said they "looked the other way"

youtube.com/watch?v=BTMlT7yafg4

Pfeh, yea, "eat shit" alright.

>german staff officer cables to berlin asking about winter packs
>is told to abstain from further unneccessary inquiries

frostbite casualties out the ass, temps so cold weapons no longer work, oil literally fucking freezing in engines

nigga should've withdrawn to defensive positions for the winter to limit the impact of fucked equipment and manpower

...

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_Army_(Wehrmacht)

Size
6,550,000 (peak in 1943)

Active: 4,250,000
Reserve: 2,300,000
14,800,000 (total who served)[1]

Now fuck off.

Same thing applies to the Soviet Union. Many of the countries wanted no part in it. Take Georgie for Instance (which rebelled in 1924 I think).

Hahaha, what delusion. You were the only one who got BTFO.

I'm talking of their own troops for crimes like cowardice. They turned a blind eye to mass rapes and the archives show that too some officers even complaining to their superiors of the conduct of soviet troops but it was often ignored, sometimes not. The point is the archives are pretty good and you're a dumbass for dismissing them

So Hitler should have handed the land he taken back to the Soviets and withdraw? Also the Germans did dig in during the winter.

But Ukraine is rightful Russian clay
It's like cutting Bavaria out of Germany's total populaiton.

The population of 'Germans' never topped 85 million. This is the only population Germany could feasibly restrict from. Certainly if you throw Other axis powers into the mix then it boosts their numbers but the only real contender was Germany.

The population of the USSR never dipped below 150 million even accounting for occupied territories.

It's a fact that The USSR had a very significant manpower advantage over Germany which greatly contributed to them winning the war

It was under German occupation at the time. If it's in German hands it's not part of the Soviet Union.

It's still not very much into German occupation. Majority of USSR's population preferred USSR just because at least by 1941 the repressions stopped and life was getting better.

Population size along means nothing in war.

What matters is:

Industry (advantage SU, with US support)
Weapons (advsntage SU due to Versailles treaty)
Logistics (advantage SU due to allied bombing of Germany, and more trucks, homeland advantage---rails)
Trained Soldiers (advantage SU due to Versailles)

Germany's advantage was experienced officers, better army organizational structure, better strategists and the initial initiative.

Quincentennial Kek.

So you're telling me the Germans only captured 10 million people when Ukraine alone equals to 30 million, and Leningrad equals to 3.3 million?

>Population size along means nothing in war.

Yes, and I am not arguing it is. I'm simply pointing out that the "hurr durr Soviet zerg tactics" meme is not true, and that the population difference wasn't as large as you'd think.

>The point is the archives are pretty good and you're a dumbass for dismissing them

And you're a dumbass for taking them at face value. Congrats.

I guess you also accept the civilian casualty toll by the United States during the Iraq war? Lmao, dumbest fucking dumb-fuck I've ever seen.

The zerg tactic meme comes from Stalin's strategy of literally throwing away entire armies because he knew he had larger reserves than Germany and he was in a panic.

When SU got the upper hand, they started using better tactics. But the encirclements SU suffered are historic in acope.

Show me one example of this.

Winter in russia is like -40 up to -60 degrees celsius. there are stories that say the germans had to start a fire under the tanks in order to keep the oil from not freezing. Not only that but it is also said the russians learned from the war with the fins that constant harassment and guerrilla tactics are the key succes. Kept in starvation and cold, it would be pretty obvious why they had to retreat. People that i know that lived to hear the news of those times call the russian winter as "general winter" for it`s devastating effect on the unprepared enemy.

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_encirclements_of_Soviet_forces_during_Operation_Barbarossa

> -40 up to -60 degrees Celsius

The coldest it's ever been in Russia is like, -67, but that's right near the Arctic circle.

>We actually have access to the Soviet archives
>10.000

you're not very bright are you?

look, there are 3 races in asia who are savage, cruel, soulless and heartless. chinks, mongols (they're actually turkic + chink mix so) and slavs (they're actually eastern european but later expanded into asia due to power vacuum).

these 3 races are individually savages. every state through out history committed atrocities because that's what was needed for the benefit of that state at the time BUT these 3 races are just violent and have no empathy

I'm not even memeing

This was due to early blitzkrieg and unprepared Soviet forces.

Show one example of Stalin willingly throwing armies away.

-40 then

>Show one example of Stalin willingly throwing armies away.
He obviously didn't intend for them to be encircled, but whenever an army was destroyed, he'd simply bring forward a new one and send it at the Germans, then when that was destroyed, send the next one in, repeat ad infinum. That's the zerg strategy.

So replacing losses is a zerg strategy. Good to know.

He was "replacing losses" about as well as Hitler was putting Jews into "work camps"

>Not mentioning Italy failing and Germany having to come save them.

fucking uneducated fucks need to listen to dan carlins podcast or something

>they moved their industry east
>they mobilized men AND women
>they had elder god tier generals towards the end which is a big feat considering all the previous high ranked memers were purged
>zerg tier numbers

>hitler was a dumbass
>hitler made it a war of extermination which created partizan forces in countries that would have otherwise been happy to be freed from commie rule and helped out and shit
>winter
>etc

there are so many nuances that people miss

>slavs
>asia
>turkey's opinion
I guess Erdogan doesn't rovide you guys with basic education

France also failed and the Allies had to come save them.

Russians are psychotic and evil and just give no fucks. You ever wonder why Nazi Germany hated them so much in the first place? You ever wonder why the left in America hates them so much now? Its not without reason. Your best bet is just to build a huge wall and keep them out.

That doesn't change the fact Germany had to reroute troops to Italy instead of sending them to Russia

>totalitarian
>best at mobilizing
I think you missed out the eternal anglo and burgers

is that why hitler allied them once???

The Soviets also had to maintain a garrison in the far East because of Japan you know.

Clearly the Russians fight better than Germans. Ask the French

>Russians are psychotic and evil and just give no fucks. You ever wonder why the British Empire hated them so much in the first place? You ever wonder why the world hates them so much now? Its not without reason. Your best bet is just to make them build a huge wall and don't let them out.