I'm trying my best to find historical proof that the intentions of the Holy Crusades were intended to retaliate against the Muslim invasion of Europe and to free the oppressed Christians from the holy land. I'm usually really good at finding evidence for statistics and scientific stuff but history is just really my weakness.
Basically i need information, some kind of historical documentation that the intentions of the crusades were in defense of Christians and European culture not just violence for the sake of violence.
I have used this video as evidence in a debate but It lacks concrete sources and I'm having a bit of a hard time getting that HARD evidence. Help?
Really though, I'm not sure what proof is needed. Pretty much all of the Christian land outside of Europe + the Iberian peninsula and Sicily had been conquered by Arabs and it's not like spontaneously decided to stop before the Crusades. I mean, if the people you argue against want to play semantic games, at worst it can only be called a war of reclamation of lost Christian land.
Hunter Richardson
nice pic
John Sullivan
Papist faggots
Evan Anderson
>justifications for the Crusades Just read up on the history of Byzantium and the conquest of Persia to know what kind of fuckery the Muslims pulled off.
Then note the denial of pilgrimage rights by Muslims which further complicated matters.
Then note Muslims having no respect for borders whatsoever.
Note the Battle of Tours and the Arab Sieges of Constantinople.
In sum of Christian Crusades were unjustified the Muslim Jihad is a lie propagated to disguise Muslim Aggression.
If the argument turns atheist point out how the legally speaking those lands were Roman and as de jure owner of the Levant Muslims had no legal basis for taking lands from the Eastern Roman Empire in the first place.
Ryder Sullivan
They were killing sand nigger mud shits. No further justification needed.
Jason Cruz
Thanks a lot everyone really appreciate the help.
Noah Allen
God's Battalions: The Case for the Crusades
A good read.
Bentley Parker
The crusades were just a bunch of poorfags fighting over the same shitty desert cities no one gives a shit about.
Evan Lewis
Here's one. >The Muslims didn't worship Christ the Redeemer Whoops, looks like the Crusades were justified.
Eli Thomas
This was the last straw that forced the Byzantines to ask for help.
"The Concise History Of The Crusades" Thomas F. Madden
Samuel Diaz
They kind of were and kind of weren't. Who cares though, fuck muslims
Joshua Edwards
What's the best (least biased) book you've read on the crusades? Everyone is encouraged to reply.
Austin Martinez
>reading
Nicholas Stewart
Because the land was ours before the Muslims came
Jonathan Perez
There is non.
In the pursuit of the historical discipline you will never find the smoking gun.
You must argue with the evidence available and use the strength of your argument to convince others.
Henry Scott
the crusades were justified but they mostly killed other christians and pagans instead of muslims, the mongolians destroyed the muslims, not the crusaders
Zachary Brown
looking at modern history, i can believe the crusades were 100% justifiable.
Jeremiah Gutierrez
Wut? The siege of byzantium was a one time thing, and there were no nestorians left to kill in the holy land,what the fuck are you even on about, ahmed.
Carson Barnes
They were justified in fighting Islam as Islam had invaded Christian lands long before. The parts of the crusades that were wrong were where they killed other Christians, essentially helping the muslims take control of the entire middle eastern region. Islam spread through war. You Either converted, suffered as a lower class citizen, or you were killed.
Aristotle was rediscovered during the siege of Toledo in the reconquista. The Muslims didn't share the knowledge they stole, they just hoarded it. We wouldn't have the kind of science and philosophy we have today without the crusades.
Luis Rogers
The crusades were "justified" but overall were a failure, Thousands of Christians were killed as a result of the crusades and the Fourth Crusade inflicted irreparable damage onto Constantinople in which the Ottomans took advantage of. Only 'DEUS VULT' LARPers think the crusades helped Christianity
Samuel Cruz
Which crusades?
Brandon Cook
I have Iberian root from before that. Now they are all weird Portuguese people.
Ian Harris
Literally reading this right now. Got it from the Sup Forums recommended reader list. Its really good
Easton King
Also, Does anyone know any good books on the subject?
Additionally, the albigensian crusade had less people be killed in the crusade than the fucking first and biggest one, you bloody stupid cunt.
Isaac Taylor
The crusades push back the muslims, cut off the mediterranian caliphates allowing for their destruction, and in general stopped the raiding of western, central, and large swaths of eastern europe.
What fuck show are they teaching kids in school nowadays?
Evan Gomez
push all threads past bump limit ......(\_/) ......( '_') ..../""""""""""""\======░ ▒▓▓█D /"""""""""""""""""""""""\ \_@_@_@_@_@_/
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thirty_Years'_War#Casualties_and_disease ohn Theibault agrees with the conclusions in >Günther Franz's Der Dreissigjährige Krieg und das Deutsche Volk (1940), that population losses were great but varied regionally (ranging as high as 50%) >50%
Juan Green
Thomas Asbridge's "The Crusades" kind of goes out of its way to make it seem both sides were equally culpable.
Nicholas Robinson
Just ordered a copy, looking forward to a good weekend read.
Ryan Jenkins
We know the australian is a stupid cunt who doesnt know what the crusades were, you don't need to beat him by not know what a crusade is, leaf.
Brody Cooper
what are the crusades then
Colton Wilson
As if the protestants didn't deserve it as they were conspiring against the crown As if they didn't massacre many catholics beforehand
Noah Roberts
The crusades were a series of campaigns sanctioned by the pope in an attempted to retake the holy land and stop islamic incursions into christian lands, with the first one called to assist the patriarch of constantinople, with the others that happened in the two hundred year period after focusing on Jerusalem and other cities. This is literally middle school history.
Jace Jones
A History of the Expedition to Jerusalem
It is a first hand account by Fulcher, so an actual primary source. It reads very well, and I'd highly recommend it.
And IIRC, I think Urban II mentions the Islamic conquest in the ME in his address. The problem is that even if you can justify crusades against Muslims, in the overall picture, a libshit is next going to position you to defend the Jews and pagans that were slaughtered/forcefully converted (although bishops explicitly said not to kill Jews many times).
Nolan Bailey
>I'm trying my best to find historical proof that the intentions of the Holy Crusades were intended to retaliate against the Muslim invasion of Europe and to free the oppressed Christians from the holy land. I'm usually really good at finding evidence for statistics and scientific stuff but history is just really my weakness.
It's just basic history that the crusades were started after Alexios I Komnenos appealed for help to the West, including to the Pope, after the Muslim Seljuk Turks started marauding in the region.
Grayson Martin
>massacre of Jews and pagans Can be countered with the Muslim enslavement of Christian orphans, the tradition of piracy in the Mediterranean that continued well into the 19th Century.
Brandon Howard
no new threads? no image posting?
>push ALL threads past bump limit ......(\_/) ......( '_') ..../""""""""""""\======░ ▒▓▓█D /"""""""""""""""""""""""\ \_@_@_@_@_@_/
stop Sup Forums censorship
Gabriel Morales
Forgot to add, An Arab-Syrian Gentleman is another good first hand account of the crusades. Well, good if you're at all interested in the Muslim perspective of the time.
Brandon Roberts
Its not even that un-PC to say that is what it is. It says so on AD 500-1500 history books.
Arguably, the other crusades beyond that were pure folly though, what I personally believe is that Muslims were better caretakers of the lands of Jerusalem so God foiled the Christians because they got too prideful and ego driven feeling as though they earned the city.
I must admit the history shows Christians were pretty lame and would have prevented both Jews and Muslims from ever going there which isn't cool as its more for everyone.
God then waited until such time was ripe for Jews to conquest Muslim lands with the help of Christian Americans and other Europeans and now they are the rightful rulers of Jerusalem.
Again, just my opinion.
Matthew Richardson
And what relevant Muslim perspective is there?
Unless it's a confession of stealing the land it would be a whitewashing of history.
Ethan Morales
>kill millions of civilians >its ok though because the other side started it
pretty sick meme but humanity could do with a new one after using it for thousands of years
Ryan Perez
>kill millions >blame the other side Clearly personal responsibility isn't a tenet of Islam.
>Crusades were bad >but violent Jihad is justifiable in the current year
Oy vey what a good goy
Hunter Ortiz
Here's your proof
Bentley Nelson
here's your proof.
Bentley Allen
Not that hard, now lets begin.
Do you like having people break into your house? No? Well congrats, its the same as the crusades
Wyatt Diaz
They conquered the Byzantines (even through the christians never gave a shit about Byzantium and in fact hated them) but that's about it as far as le evil muslim aggression goes
Leo Hall
Here, in convenient video form - Islam invaded and took half of europe. The crusades were defensive:
There were people who went because they thought it was God's will to free the holy land (the religious), there were people who went for political reasons, and for glory (nobles and knights), and there were people who went just because they had nothing better to do and wanted to chimp out and loot riches (peasants)
