Thread for the discussion of gun rights, gun control, legislation, ethics...
If you don't see a /grg/ thread in the catalog, feel free to create one.
KEEP IT POLITICAL! This is not a thread for the discussion of guns, it's a thread for the discussion of gun rights, everything else goes to /k/.
You are encouraged to post additional ressources.
IMPORTANT: You'll notice that some of the ressources here are in French. Why is that? Because in France, when the Declaration of the Rights of Man and of the Citizen was written, they almost included an article that said:
>Tout citoyen a le droit d'avoir chez lui des armes, et de s'en servir, soit pour la défense commune, soit pour sa propre défense, contre toute agression illégale qui mettrait en péril la vie, les membres, ou la liberté d'un ou plusieurs citoyens.
>Every citizen has the right to keep arms and use them, be it for the defense of others or his personal defense against any illegal agression that would put in danger the life, the members or the liberty of one or multiple citizens.
In the end, it wasn't included because the other writers judged that:
>Le droit déclaré dans l'article X était évident de sa nature, et l'un des principaux garants de la liberté politique et civile que nulle autre institution ne peut le suppléer.
>The right declared in the article X was obvious by its nature, and one of the primary keepers of civil and political liberty that no other institution can replace.
This is why some of the ressources will be in French or in other European languages, so that Europeans can spread this everywhere, in the hopes of recovering this natural right.
Thread-specific note: Since this general is fairly new, you are highly encouraged to post new resources.
Pastebin: pastebin.com
/grg/ - Gun Rights General
Other urls found in this thread:
home.nra.org
arpac.eu
tiretdefense.com
daaa-avwl.go1.cc
assemblee-nationale.fr
freedomsphoenix.com
en.m.wikipedia.org
youtube.com
ag.gov.au
twitter.com
WEBSITES
home.nra.org
arpac.eu
tiretdefense.com
daaa-avwl.go1.cc
BOOKS
The War on Guns: Arming Yourself Against Gun Control Lies, John R. Lott Jr.
More Guns, Less Crime: Understanding Crime and Gun Control Laws, John R. Lott Jr.
The Second Amendment: A Biography, Michael Waldman
Gunfight: The Battle over the Right to Bear Arms in America, Adam Winkler
OTHER READING MATERIAL
assemblee-nationale.fr
I'm really hoping that Trump moves on gun rights as soon as Gorsuch is confirmed. I can only hope that other countries will follow the example of the US once we go back to following the letter and spirit of the 2nd Amendment. If the NFA gets abolished, I'm going to have a huge fucking party.
March 20th is too far away though, it hurts.
There's not a single solitary statistic supporting gun control that stands up to scrutiny
...
What's with the NFA and what does it have to do with fun rights?
National Firearms Act put full auto weapons and other things under severe regulation.
Better not be any cucks in here who think there should be regulations on explosives and military hardware too.
The right to arms means all arms, not just guns.
We're slowly regaining our rights too.
The socialists here did a referendum to ban the commerce of weapons, and the people voted with a resounding NO.
So the politicians circumvented this by making the acquisition almost impossible, and since the local police chief was the one who handed out the documents, every officer in the country was instructed to NOT give the citizens the approval they need. Not only that but the process takes years and costs thousands of dollars, before you can even buy the guns.
They did that while still keeping our 'Second Amendment' legal.
So let this be a lesson to americans saying the liberals couldn't infringe the Second Amendment. They don't need to, they just need gun control enacted, and suddenly clog up the jurisdiction and handling of licenses.
There's a bit he could be doing now with EOs that he's not doing and doesn't have to wait for Gorsuch to be confirmed to implement.
The NFA is never geting abolished. Adopt some more realistic goals, like repealing the Hughes Amendment or weakening import restrictions and the NFA, and push them while Trump still has political capital in the bank.
Alaska laughs at your "gun control". Why don't you call it "people control". And this is an American site,type American you fag. Nobody reads your goofy foreign gibberish.
I want an M4A1 with an M203.
In Miller, the Supreme Court inexplicably ruled that the NFA was constitutional because short barreled shotguns were not suitable for militia and military use. Even ignoring that idiotic falsehood (literally everything covered by the NFA was used in combat at some point or other), it implied at the very least that any arms the military actually used would be those same weapons protected by the 2nd Amendment. So all automatic weapons, grenades, bombs, suppressors, etc. Which, of course, are heavily regulated.
How anyone can consider the SC's ruling as having any legal merit is beyond me.
Gun "rights".
I believe you mean privileges.
Owning a gun is a privilege.
>Its better to be judged by 12 than to be carried by 6
Top laf. Go buy a machine gun or a suppressor without giving the ATF their danegeld and see what happens.
Yea, it's funny how I have to go through all this extra trouble to make a 14.5" AR15 which is exactly what the military uses.
Driving a car is a privilege.
Jerking it to your mom is a privilege.
Owning firearms (and as such, the ability to defend you and yours) is an inalienable right.
If it's made on Alaska and stays in Alaska Feds can't do shit. Look up Alaska HB69 and read it for yourself. Huffington post called it a national disgrace.
The best part is a later court ruling (don't remember which one, if it was the Supreme Court or a lower court) just arbitrarily declared that the 2nd Amendment is good and all, but "obviously" the right to bear arms cannot be unlimited (no explanation why) so the NFA is still a-ok.
That's not true though.
If you can get in trouble with the law, you can kiss that "right" goodbye.
Since when can a "right" be taken away from a person forever?
You guys don't understand what a "right" is. Fuckin' morons.
The only right you really have is to fight.
Everything is fantasy.
Felons can lose the right to vote, despite the 14th and 15th amendments and the Voting Rights Act, so it's absolutely possible for your rights to be taken away.
Question for Euros or Bongs...Do you own firearms in your country? What permissions do you have to go through to purchase them? For instance licenses and permits. How do you purchase ammunition's and how much access to international ammo markets do you have?
I've noticed that the courts are very inconsistent with these rulings. Very sad!
Has anyone actually done anything with this? Why isn't there a company making full guns for Alaskan citizens?
Is that a G43? I've been considering one of those very hard, but I just accidentally bought a CZ P09.
Wow what an utter trashheap of words. Since everything is fantasy why don't you just type that into the wall and get back to us
Fuck the NRA. They sell out gun rights. Switch that to the 2nd amendment foundation.
>Why isn't there a company making full guns for Alaskan citizens?
Alaska isn't the only state that does this. We also have legal weed. We tell the Feds to fuck off on a weekly basis.
All you rights are taken away when you break the law.
It's not a right if it can be taken away due to bad behavior, shithead.
It's a privilege then. Just like your license to drive being suspended.
Nope it's 19 Master race
Here let me finish the thread for you OP as there is no discussion tobe had.
SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED
You can all go home now.
>Just like your license to drive being suspended.
On public roads. You can drive all you want on your own property shillblue
Reformed felon here. its been about sixteen years since my single non violent non drug felony. I think the illinois state police want 20 before I get an foid card.
What are the odds that is a little flexible that waiting time is insane. I had that shit sealed for any non gov checks some time ago.
You also lose your right to liberty when you are convicted of a felony.
Protip: Don't be a felon.
>Lives in Alaska
>Carries snub nose
Why? Snub nose you lose considerable velocity/energy/penetration
I should say I am Dupage county not cook. I heard cook gives no fucks and will screw you anyway they can.
Right, I forgot about that bill you guys did a few years back. Has it actually been tested in court yet? The Feds still sporadically crack down on pot growers in legal states, so they're not completely deterred from butting heads with states who contravene their laws. It would be horrible if they tried another Waco or Ruby Ridge, though maybe the Bundy Ranch incident set them straight for a while.
Now you guys need to get on deregulating ordnance as well.
Where did you go Pierre get back in here
You should get all your rights back when you're released. If you're safe enough to walk around in public where you can get illegal guns at the drop of a hat, and other weapons easier still, you're safe enough to be trusted with gun rights. If not, why the fuck were you let out?
any spanish previously ruled by spain , no fun land please explain to me the no mil calibers law history to me and the the evolution on limited "joules" guns that makes you amigo only able to buy .380 pistols? always found that strange. whats with the contempt for .380 that the elites graciously allow peasants to own them?
You can get out as sort of a release but still serving situation. Things like probation or parole.
Also certain things like domestic abuse mean you never get it back. They can be touchy about that also. One of those no gray area things. The state police handle giving it back at least in Illinois and they have probably seen so much bullshit they dont want to give it to anyone.
You can get your rights back, as absurd as that is. Once you complete your incarnation, and maintain a period of crime free stability, you can petition to have your charges expunged and rights restored. Obviously this could take years, but there are routes
They are going to vote on the EU Firearms Directve, in EU-parliament, lads. Buy 10+mags for your rifles and pistols asap. Don't tell anyone you have them. Hide them if your state refuses to issue permits. Prepare to bury your guns in two years. (PVC Pipe or Pelican Case, well oiled firearms, loads of drypacks, bury below frostline [different depth depening where you are])
...
Then stand in front of my Ruger Alaskan in .454 casull. It only has a 2 1/2 inch barrel.
>Buys .454
>Short barrel
Why? I imagine it's for large game/bears, not people. You lose crazy amounts of performance with a snub nose. I don't live in Alaska, but I just don't understand your reasoning especially getting a large bore snub nose. Of course it's gonna kill me, a .22 can easily kill a human
When the fuck is the whitehouse going to reply to the "Repeal the NFA" petition? Are they going to report it?
Also, will the right-national movements in Europe going to do good for the old world in this regard
...
>report it
*support it
Any Euros lurking can you please respond to my post?
This is just a /k/ fest at this point, I want some overseas insight
Every law abiding citizen should have the right to keep and bear arms. Anything less is compromise. It sucks that we have too many fudds that agree to registration in my country. We'll never get to be as free as the United States.
I'm glad the general is working well, but there's a little bit of gun discussion that would rather belong on /k/. It's not personally bothering me but I'm pretty sure some asshat mod would be glad to delete the thread if the discussion isn't political. Thanks to the people who posted some reading material!
best way to get a gun in the uk?
Austria
current firearm legislation: permissive
Cat. D firearms (e.g. double barrel shotgun): 18+, no weapon ban, 3 day cooling phase
Cat. C firearms (e.g. repeating rifles): 18+, no weapon ban, 3 day cooling phase
Cat. B firearms (semiauto rifles, pistols, revolvers): firearm possession permit (Waffenbesitzkarte, WBK)
Cat. A firearms (full-auto, burst, some semi-auto, grenades etc): forbidden for civilians, exceptions for certain collectors and special forces
Firearm possession permit (Waffenbesitzkarte, WBK) requirements:
21
No criminal record
Psychological evaluation (150 + 300 questions tests + talking session of 15-30 minutes)
Firearm handling license (Waffenführerschein)
To keeo it:
Store Cat. B firearms in safe or other secure container (depends on how your living situation is)
Storage of firearms controlled every 5 years by police
renew firearm handling license every 5 years, or show proof of regular shooting
Not committing any crimes (e.g. drunk driving, bodily harm, etc)
I'm 20 right now and was worried to death hillary would win in case she put up gun control laws on full auto ARs, with Trump in office I know I'll be able to buy everything I need on my next birthday.
Oh yeah and 3 day cooling phase becomes obsolete when you hold a firearm possession permit (WBK).
Reason to get that permit is defined by law "self defense on ones property" (Waffg §22).
please keep having shitty gun laws, it's all we have
To get a gun in France you have to sign up to a shooting range, get a license for which you need to prove that you go to the range on a regular basis (I think you need to give them proof you went there three times, with a period of at least 2 months in between each) and then when you buy the gun, you have to show proof that you've bought a safe to store it in. Although I'm pretty sure that ammo needs to be stored in a separate safe. Also, when you go to the range, you have to carry a bag for the gun, and another bag for the ammo.
As for access to international ammo, I really don't know.
I buy ammo at the weapon trader. I order everything at a weapon trader.
I believe that gun rights is the more popular side to gun control. The left side is merely more invigorated in their perceived moral superiority. On an average basis, I have observed and perceived support for the current gun culture
>tfw you will never own a tactical thumbnuke
While you focus on semantics, the rest of us will quietly continue to protect our own homes and families, regardless.
That's what really bothers you, isn't it?
You just know, deep down inside, that responsible gun owners are too stupid to do what you think is best for you...I mean, us.
How do I into guns
you go buy one
Better gun control improves your shot-to-shot consistency :^)
Also, this Wikipedia article sums it up:
en.m.wikipedia.org
What about ammo? Can you access international ammo markets?
That's crazy Frenchie, especially considering what happened to France in 1940. Shouldn't need to prove you go to the range to own a firearm
BUmp merci Franchie
Yup, it's pretty crazy when you take into account the fact that since 2015 (the year Islamic terrorism started getting real), police officers have the right (or rather privilege) to carry their service weapon off duty. Now that this exists, what would be wrong about a citizen receiving the same training as said police officers (which is not really difficult training) and carrying a weapon?
Derien mec
Nope. I can only order ammo from registerd firearm and ammo import companies and have the ammo shipped to my weapons trader.
I have 0 obligation to that. I live in the South and carrying a firearm here is just as common as your wallet and keys. Wish France and other Euro countries had the same benefit, especially with the migrant crisis
The Czechs have concealed carry permits for civilians. Here you get those only when you are a policeguy, or wörk in certain fields like money transporter, jewelier etc.
Because fuck you, that's why.
*0 objections sorry
Sad man. Hopefully things will start to change, glad some of Europe is becoming uncucked thx to the internet
You want to talk about privileges mate?
Proposed NFA agreement in Australia says that I would need not only a genuine reason to own a gun as I do now (hunting, target, etc), but also a "Genuine Need" to own a specific gun.
check this BS out:
ag.gov.au
I'm seriously moving to the US cos i'm so sick of this shit.
Fuckin love that channel. Ranger Ts 4 lyfe, too bad they're hard to find
They are making it even worse for us gunfags.
Well I'm happy for you guys, hold on tight to your rights and your guns, who knows what will happen tomorrow.
We have concealed carry permits in France too, but they're a fucking joke since that to get one you have to justify that your life is in danger. Apparently living in a no-go zone is not a justification or we would have dead Arabs and niggers every day.
>you have to justify that your life is in danger.
Same here. There cven were cases like following:
Woman works as late night cashier in gas station. Got robbed and beaten up 3 times in one month. Two times she lied in hospital for one day and two days. Her local firearm department and department of interior refused to issue her a permit for some fucked up reasons. Her husband needs to pick her up every night right at the entrance since she suffers from extreme anxiety of getting robbed again. She was robbed in broad daylight one month after they denied her the permit. Took some hits to the face, swollen around eye, lips and cheekbones. Still no permit.
Stalinist swine rule Austria.
Sorry to hear that mate. We've got a saying in French which goes "il vaut mieux prévenir que guérir" which translates to "preventing is better than curing"
I had to check the channel for his review of those after your post. Interesting. I didn't even know about those. Should keep an eye out next time I'm at the store.
>preventing is better than curing
What the fuck is that shit?
>be criminal rapist/robber/murderer
>want to rape French girl
>rape her
>get away because she can't defend herself
vs
>be criminal rapist/robber/murderer
>want to rape French girl
>think to self "wait a second... she could have a gun and kill me... Fuck! Well I guess I can just go jerk it instead"
Having guns everywhere DOES prevent crime. Look at America. The biggest cities where guns are illegal, niggers kill each other in droves. In non-cucked states crime is nowhere because everyone knows if they try anything they'll get shot. Well that, and smaller states tend to not be niggers. But the point stands. When everyone can protect themselves from assailants, the assailant might think twice before committing a violent crime.
To old saying we have (or had) here.
Besser haben und nicht brauchen, als brauchen und nicht haben.
(Better to have and not need than to need and not have)
&
Besser der, als ich.
(Better [the attacker] e.g. dies, instead of me)
Say, are Le Pen's chances of winning going up because of the riots? And if - would she crack down gun control?
>>preventing is better than curing
>What the fuck is that shit?
Similar to "Better safe than sorry".