Are Greeks victims of the euro zone or are they the bad guys?

Are Greeks victims of the euro zone or are they the bad guys?

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They fell for the "Democratic" Socialism and "community of nations" meme

Cutting back their public servant pay to 12 months a year would help.

Obviously, the good guys are the predatory Jewish banks you stupid goyim

The fall of the military junta fucked them up, along with us too

The Greek politicians overspent from at least 1990 to 2009. And they continue to overspend.

The Greek people voted for those politicians and are record holders in tax fraud.

I am not saying ALL Greek people are to blame, but it is not like anyone else was destroying their country. And if they had fucked off out of the Eurozone years ago, as suggested by Germany for a long time, their economy would long have recovered.

Yes people don't need money

They should be paid in immigrants

Yes it was all the Greek people's fault for making bad loans to themselves

Obviously debt should never be forgiven. Like that time Germany had all its debt forgiven. Oh wait we aren't supposed to mention that

Bit of both. People who like free shit and powerhungry assholes who wanted more countries to their club even by fudging the numbers got us to where we are today.

is that a joke?
those greeks are hustling their own tax-money like niggers... they barely accomplish anything with real work.

Also notice how Germany has hundreds of billions of dollars to pay for Muslim invaders

But they won't forgive a cent of Greece's debt to Jewish banks


They were a good friend

That junta was fucking retarded and lead to the invasion of Cyprus

It's almost as if a bunch of loansharks gave money to a drug addict

It's a mix of both.

Greeks were retarded with their money, but if it weren't for EU intervention the problem would have solved itself by now.

If Greece had its own currency it could pay for its own public services

Instead it is now a slave to Germany and international banks

They're ok. They just believed socialism could work. It never does.

Both

Victims

&
also lazy wops that don't pay taxes, & really don't have shit 100% going anymore just like a nigger country

this, plus the fact that they have carried bad habits from Ottoman dominance period - tax avoiding, lack of trust for state etc

>get loans
>get angry when asked to pay them back
>jooooos!1! joos sto my moneys!1!!

Damn thats true italo bro. Witnessing it everyday.we as a gamily try to avoid taxes if possible .When i go out for coffee with friends shops bring out already used recites and i tend to destroy them so they cant use them again and here comes the funny thing... My buddys tell me not to cause blabla the state has fallen blabla its good to fraud it and everything goes to germany and shit.
We are doomed its in our dna to steal from the state.

Both.

Didn't Greece basically lie and use accounting bullshit/magic to meet the requirements for the EU anyway? IIRC they never fulfilled a lot of the fiscal requirements necessary for membership status.

100/12
vs
100/14

is still 100.

Just because the system is different doesn't mean they get payed more.

Do you blame the crack smoker or the crack supplier? Both are to blame for the addict's predicament, however, one's definitely a lot more dangerous than the other

>Obviously debt should never be forgiven.
You do understand the point of Germany suggesting they exit the Eurozone WAS that they default on their debt and get a debt restructuring?

Greek politicians refused because the transition from the euro to the New Drachma would have been a fucked up 2 years.

Greece under the junta experienced the fastest growth economic growth in the world right behind Japan, so calling it completely retarded would be too much of a stretch. Also, the coup in Cyprus happened under Ioannides who was a complete moron and a traitor

Is their economy still fucked to hell? No one really talks about them.

Both

Yes, they've been completely fucked since 2009 or so. It doesn't help that they elected literal communists who said they were going to work with the EU to help things go over smoothly and the EU is being weirdly autistic in their approach to things and making cooperation difficult. But at the same time SYRIZA isn't exactly the best or most reasonable or compliant negotiating partner.

Doesn't Germany still owe Greece billions of dollars from that loan they took out during WWII?

>Doesn't Germany still owe Greece billions of dollars from that loan they took out during WWII?
No, that 150 million loan was settled in the 1960s.

That's like asking people who shoot themselves if they are victims of guns.

>people still questioning the "Greek" problem

Don't you cunts realise? Greeks are SPENDERS, not SAVERS. Greeks do everything over the top. Greeks spend money they don't have, because Greek culture is about having excess of everything.

Do you people not know any Greeks in real life? They're all like this. Every single one of them.

No matter where you go, Greeks in Australia, America, Canada, anywhere, they're all retarded with money, and don't give a shit.

It's literally a cultural thing.

I think greeks are pretty cool and redpilled
They were betrayed by the elite, like all other people in the west
Destribution of wealth to the rich and immigration (cheap labor)

NOT~
PAYING~!

bay the tept

NO~!

It started to show signs of recovery but in the latest data they have a decline again.

And the IMF is losing confidence.
And if they pull out many EU members also want to end Greek bailouts since no IMF means nobody to enforce the deals.
So they might very well still go bankrupt.

Greeks are not redpilled,they are retarded communists cucks

Yeah, that's why they elected SYRIZA, literal socially left Communists, because they're so fucking redpilled, right?

Yes, goy, of course they are the bad guys!

Stick gyro into mouth, out of ass comes euro

>we hate the jews too but still have the lowest debt-to-GDP ratio in the EU
Really makes you think, hohol.

Nobody says Greece can't default.

What they can't get is an easy debt write-off.
Because that would mean retarding them for their bad behavior.

Just like Germany before, they will have to go through total economic collapse and years or even decades of agony if they want to default....but they can if they want.

>2009
>denbt is 120% of GDP
>Eu and IMF move in to 'save' us
>2017
>denbt is 180% of GDP
>GDP is down 30%
>unemployment is at 30%
>youth unemployment is at 70%
>tax evasion shifted from happening for profit/greed to happening for survival

NOT
PAYING
(they don't want us to pay anyway)

ec.europa.eu/eurostat/tgm/table.do?tab=table&init=1&language=en&pcode=teina225&plugin=1

;)

>boohoohoo why didn't we get an even bigger bailout?

> Being anti-Semitic somehow means they shouldn't be held accountable for being absolutely retarded and financially irresponsible
Is this a new method of default then? Just check off that you hate Jews and the bank just forgets about denbts?

Bravo, mongolman. Out-fucking-jewed

Shit, even our Muslims are blue pilled.

Greeks hate Jews from birth. I cant explain it. Its like every Greek is born with the knowledge that Jews are evil scum somehow.

Greece is the perfect place for the next Reich

>enforce hard austerity and cuts
>whatever money is saved from the cuts, is lost because people lose their jobs from the austerity
>ask for more austerity because the numbers don't change

Eventually, there won't be enough people able to pay taxes anymore to support this.

The Dutch were pretty much the first to adopt capitalism in Europe. They're basically the progenitors of the modern Jew. No wonder they view them so nicely, they're like brothers.

Southern Europe got raped by the Eurozone because they sided with the Nazis during WW2.

Germany is making sure they suffer due to their guilt complex.

Stop pretending you're not the greatest ally's greatest ally, friendo.

You think baby boomers are bad? Well, greek baby boomers are pure cancer. Worse than jews in terms of greed and entitlement. We call it the "occupation syndrome" here, the german occupation left us with a huge hunger for food and possessions. Everyone wanted to be rich in the 80s and they kinda succeded but it was all a fuckin illusion. We're paying the price now, bad thing is that we're paying for our parents' sins.

But we sided with the allies...

Oh yes, but he's a much newer friend of ours than yours, even if the sentiments and ownership run deeper.
> Southern Europe got raped by the Eurozone because they sided with the Nazis during WW2.
What? That doesn't make any sense, that's not the reason Southern Europe is getting raped at all, they're just generally less economically productive so Germany has more power and uses it.

Of course austerity hurts the economy.
But it is necessary to get your deficit under control.

Don;t like it?
Then just leave the Eurozone and see how well you survive on your own. - I would have greatly preferred this.

They are a victim in the sense that a country as economically dead as they are usually has a piss poor currency. This lowers the barrier for investments, since investments come cheap.

Unfortunately for them, they are tied to the euro, which is (at the moment) a strong currency. While investing in Greece would still be cheap, it is notably more expensive than it would be under the drachma, enough that many investors would rather take their money to other cheap ass countries in our union.

Native Dutch, sure.

But we have about 7% Muslims yet only 5% anti-semites.
So at least 30% of our Muslims fail to see what Jews really are and they have no excuse.

No user, you don't get it.
They cut pensions and wages, that's fine.
They massively increase taxes,especially for businesses, that's not fine.

Less income means people buy less shit. Combined witth the massive increase in taxes for businesses, it means alot of businesses close or move to other countries. Alot of people lose their jobs. Unemployed people can't be taxed. New businesses don't open. Unemloyment keeps increasing.
Then our denbtors ask for even more austerity, with the same results.

Basically, denbts CAN'T be repaid at this rate. The only thing that's happening is that denbts keep increasing and any chance of denbts becoming viable keeps decreasing.

nationaldebtclocks.org/debtclock/greece

thats accurate AF
there are thousands of public workers, collecting their wage without showing up for years
they are shifting pensions to familymembers over generations!
they dont produce, they dont build they dont pay taxes on immobilia... its just mis-management to protect laziness - period.

>This lowers the barrier for investments, since investments come cheap.

No it doesn't.
Because things don't magically become cheaper with a different exchange rate.

But a weak currency does make it harder for irresponsible governments to accumulate debts.
Since a) their debt will erode through inflation and b) people aren't willing to lend them much in the first place.
A weak currency also helps to keeps wages down, which is good for business.

The Greek people voted against austerity measures and they overwhelmingly voted against accepting them.

The EU said "No fuck you" and forced it upon them.

and people wonder why legitimate fascist organizations are growing in strength within Greece.

The EU has been turned into an imperialistic endeavor by far left authoritarians under German dominance which seeks to conquer through economics and not war.

They're homeless people who lie about needing money for food when there's a soup kitchen around the corner.

Cut them off and let them sort their shit out. They can beg for international aid if they actually need it.

Isn't paying taxes considered optional in your country anyway? Why does more taxes influence anything if you olive oil niggers won't pay them or your DEBTS?

>They massively increase taxes,especially for businesses, that's not fine.

Yes it is.

You need to tax at least as much as you spend, preferably a little more.
Want lower taxes? then cut more government services (no road maintenance, no public transport, no military, no hospitals) and see where that brings you.

Green companies weren't even paying their water and electricity bills because "hurrrr evil taxes! everything should be free"

NOTHING is free, you have to pay for EVERYTHING with taxes.
Learn this or just leave the Eurozone and learn it the hard way.

Because "evil Northern Europe" forced them to actually collect some of their taxes in exchange for their gibs.

Greeks are gud guise day dindu nuffing mane.

Every economy of weak EU states is in the shitter because the German economy fucks them over hard and to save them the EU Bank prints a fuckton of money to keep them alive, that is why we have the biggest inflation and money is so cheap, cheap money in foreign countries is good for germany because they will buy in germany which fucks over their economy... Etc

> When taxes are optional
Is Greece Ancap?

what the fuck is daily life even like in greece right now?

must be kinda weird being a NEET in a really nice climate in europe

I dunno, I don't go out. And it's still cold as shit.

eli5 how people buy stuff from expensive places without having money

>We call it the "occupation syndrome" here, the german occupation left us with a huge hunger for food and possessions.

Huh?

But boomers are born AFTER WW2.
They have only known the good life.

The generation that actually experienced the was very humble.

They get money from the EU via cheap loans also German prices are not very high because the euro is so weak and the economy is stronger, a realistic euro in germany would be about 30% higher

>German economy fucks them over hard

By working harder more efficiently.
HOW DARE YOU!

This is what's wrong with the EU:
- Efficiency is punished.
- Leeching is rewarded.
One day Germans will also decide to kick back and live off NEET bux, then we're all fucked.

No, but by having a higher tech standard and being more educated (this will not be a point in a few years)

Baby boomers' parents had the syndrome and they spoiled their kids with it, some boomers even inherited it.

As aLwais IS a little of bouth.
Wel if they had an operational central bank when the shit hit the fan they would no be so fuked Up today . the european central bank did nothing because it feared the posibility of damagin Germán economy , AMD that upped the problem over the roff.

young people either have money from parents, or working 12 hours a day or parasite with money from parents in-house (NEET), either way everyone tries to have fun without work and some people just work, that's what is going on, at least in northern Greece.

But yes the EU, especially the euro is tucked, I agree

>And if they had fucked off out of the Eurozone years ago, as suggested by Germany for a long time

they couldn't and still can't because there's no "leave" clause in the treaty.

That's a technicality.
They can write one easily, they just don't want to because they think investors are retarded enough to believe that nobody can ever leave the Eurozone.

There was also no leave clause to the EU before Brexit was announced.

>Baby boomers' parents had the syndrome

That's weird because in my country the parents of baby-boomers worked very hard to rebuild the country and never expected luxuries.
Extremely humble generation.

Boomers then "rebelled" against their modest hard working parents by becoming the most demanding and selfish generation ever.

they really are retarded considering their merchant fleet is very large, tourismbux keep steadily flowing in probably have other industries that are exporters
like our post-commie cunt they are held hostage by government employees and pensioners who can't see past their parasitism

>Boomers then "rebelled" against their modest hard working parents by becoming the most demanding and selfish generation ever.
This.

Boomers are selfish degenerate cucks, who lived a happy live off the wealth and safety inherited from the previous fascist hard-working generetion but who obviously weren't able to maintain for the next generetion.

Hard times create strong men, strong men create good times, etc..

They did work hard and I guess they were kinda humble but they were also materialistic.
You can't see it now because they're old as shit or dead but I remember my grandpa when he was young, all he talked about was land and money. He and his brother ended up hating each other over some family fortune dispute.

The problem is that with the current taxation model enforced, nothing is viable.
Businesses can't survive.
No businesses=no employment.
No employment=no taxes.

They can't understand that all the money they save from over-taxation, they eventually lose from the economy shrinking and people losing their jobs.

By grandparents were the exact opposite.

They were quite rich because they had a big shop.
But they had only a tiny car and my mother and aunts had to buy expensive items like TV's and VCR's as "gifts" from the money they gave to them because they would never buy such items for themselves.

Business is perfectly viable in the rest of the EU, with even higher taxes.
You just need to work harder for less pay.

yeah, no

>be civil engineer in Greece
>earn 550 a month for full time
>price of living as higher as Northern Europe

And this is why I fucked off. I really really tried, but when you're in danger of becoming homeless, you bet on the right horse to win.

How much money do I need as a starter pack to come over there?
soon to be bachelor software engineer with a lot of experience on the market.

socialism, high pensions with no backing,corruption bc goverment was in charge of gibsmedat. Also all of the supposed aid money immediatly went to propping up foreign banks instead of dealing with home economic issues.

>divide and conquer, goyim
t. Romaniote

You need 1800 the first few month.

400-500 for rent and this depends on the city, another 400-500 for "guarantee rent" , another 600 for a real estate agent because finding a room to rent can be a nightmare. 150 for food and 50 for the government to give you the related work visas or id card.

You can find work very fast, you can start paying for those expenses by applying to a work agency to work as a temp. I started working literally my third day here. It's usually shit jobs the Dutch don't wanna do but the past is ridiculous compared to home.

You kinda need to learn the language though so start doing it ASAP.

If it was the same, viable model, then we wouldn't have literally tens of thousands of people losing their job every month because the company they worked at closed down due to not being profitable anymore.

You don't need a degree in economics to understand this, it's common sense. When you overtax and don't invest the taxed money back into the economy, the economy collapses, people lose their jobs and you're unable to keep collecting the same amount of taxes.
But the EU and IMF demand we keep collecting the same or even a higher amount. Untill when?