Whats your opinion on Russian Civil War?

Would world be a better place if whites won?

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Russia would anyway.

I saw the Russian movie Admiral. Seemed like a good guy. Realistically the Whites never had a chance of winning short of the international coalition getting way more involved.

>Would world be a better place if whites won?

yes

The Original Absolute Madman

>russian civil war lost
>american civil war lost
is this the worst timeline?

Would it? The Reds industrialized Russia in decades. Would the other side have done it, or just refuse to modernize?

anyone ever see The Chekist?

looks pretty dark, im not sure I really want to watch.

My great grandmother was a white russian emigré.
Do I really need to say any more?

How can one be so extremely retarted to believe that all natural processes of country's evolving wouldnt happened if bolsheviks didnt came to power? No fucking surprise it comes from american, you guys are truly the garbage can of humanity.

>industrialization
>natural process

no surprise that I ask geniune questions, and drunk Ivanov can't help, but sperg out.

Modernization is never natural. It always must be forced. I don't even know what you mean by "natural processes" because the white army did everything in their power to pretend that it is 1747 eternallly.

Whites had some sick SS looking uniforms.

Would probably be the same situation with a different dictator. We'll never know.

Yes. There'd be desperate poverty for the next decade or so, but right now Russia would be a better, more democratic, more civil place.
Commies industrialized the country fairly fast, but the price in incomparable.
t. descendant of white refugees.

Maybe, but non commie Russia might have been steamrolled by the Nazis so in that case no.

>another uniform fetishist
you have to be 18 and older to post here

this is my controversial opinion, but I don't think the Russians are capable of democracy. Or they are about as much as the Chinese were and are. They've never even known it their entire lives, and historically they've always been behind with catching up with the times.

White niggers are pathetic as fuck.
Bunch of cucks lost to jews just cause they were too concerned about who had biggest dick in order to proclaim himself next ruler.

Nothing wrong with liking uniforms you nigger

The Soviet army was crippled under Stalin, becasue he killed majority of generals and even about 10% lieutenants. A lot of regular soldiers died unnecessary death because Stalin was an incompetent war leader. He was only good with political intrigues, not running the country or waging wars.

As opposed to Stalin, the White guard leaders were actual soldiers and very competent at that. So no, Russia wouldn't have been steamrolled.

>triggered by the mention of clothing
~t. South African

If Whites had won the war, there would be no Hitler and probably no 2nd war. The only reason why Hitler won, while being a literal meme and nobody before, was, because German normies were afraid of a communist coup and then getting conquered after the experiences with the Spartakist uprising, but that was only realistic with the Soviet Union to the east.

The only question left would be the Eternal Anglo in GB and USA, if he'd try to steer up some war anyway to crush a democratic Germany regardles.

explain each side and what they represent pls

He took the Bogd Khan pill

Reds might have industrialised Russia and China, but at what cost compared to the countries which managed to industrialise without a shred of communism? Communism isn't a necessary pre-requisite to industrialization, that's a non-argument.

Yeah I've seen it. It's not that pleasant to see people effectively on a conveyor belt of being shot en masse.

It's actually more complicated than I first thought.
We're still assuming that the Jews backstabbed Germany in the first war by petitioning Britain to stay in under the promise of US involvement, and channeling funds to the Bolsheviks in order to gain a political stranglehold over Russia.
So we're still working under the premise that Germany lost the first war, and had the punitive measures of Versailles placed on it, which eventually led to the Nazis rise to power.
If the Jews didn't have Soviet Russia, they would have probably tried harder to maintain control over Germany. Likely by puppeting the Weimar Republic and offering reprieve from the punitive measures of Versailles as incentive to drag Germany into another war with Russia, but this time round with the backing of the Western hemisphere.
Russia, who already had decades of "muh 6 million" behind it, would be the ones being vilified in our textbooks, not Germany.

In short, I think the Jews would have found a way to Jew us all over regardless.

Could the whites have gone fascist, but their own Russian version of it? Then they ally with Germany/Italy/Spain/Japan and create this unholy super alliance?

Red army - communists (jews)
White guard - loose alliance of many anti-communist factions initially supported by the West, but later abandoned because they were fervent antisemites

The White guard emerged after the communist coup in 1917 (the royal family was killed) and tried to save Russia from communist tyranny. Needless to say, they lost.

I don't think so. More likely that Russia would have transitioned into what it is today: an authoritarian presidential republic. An alliance could have been possible between Germany and Russia then. - Best outcome.

But given that it was the long-term strategy for over 100 years of the Eternal Anglo to prevent an alliance between Russia and Germany, that could have provoked another war. It could have been Russia and Germany against the USA and the British Empire then. For whatever arbitrary reason they could find.

The whites hated Jews probably even more than Hitler did, so in this sense yes. But they weren't fascist in the true meaning of the word. They were right wing reactionaries, traditionalists, most of them monarchists who wanted to preserve pre-1917 status quo. Strictly by the political compass - they weren't anything like Hitler or Mussolini.

Let me try to explain. Pre-WWI Russia was on a good way to become an industrial behemoth, like China today. They had massive cheap workforce and pretty much infinite resources.

Not to mention an obvious fact that standard of living didnt improve with that industrialization, poeople would remind the times of a Tzar as a symbol of better times. We Poles got a good comparison, cause until the bolshevik revolution we were a part of the Russian Empire, then we got 20 years of independence, and the difference those 20 years made is quite astounding.

>when you try to revive the Golden Horde and get the blessing of the Dalai Lama for it
PRAISE BEGTSE!

They wouldn't have been Nazis, as world Jewry without Soviet Russia would have economically manipulated Germany into staying in line with them. It would have been Weimar Germany going to war with Russia.

>So no, Russia wouldn't have been steamrolled.
Except if it were Weimar Germany vs White Russia, instead of Nazi Germany vs Soviet Russia, the Jews in the US and Britain would have manufactured support for Germany, so Germany would have received the military aid that the Soviets received in OTL, so yes, Russia would have been steamrolled.

This is the sticking point. How would Germany have gone to the Nazis in a world without Soviet Russia? World Jewry wouldn't have allowed it. They would have eased on the punitive measures of Versailles in order to incentivise and puppet Germany into a war with Russia.

But yes, the only really ideal timeline for us would have been a world in which Russia went white and Germany went Nazi.
The NAP would have held true then, as the Nazis wouldn't pre-empt the Soviet ambitions to expand their sphere of influence over as much of the continent as possible, and we'd likely have seen a return to the pre world war 1 borders that Germany and Russia shared.

>long-term strategy for over 100 years of the Eternal Anglo to prevent an alliance between Russia and Germany
This ruins Russia and Germany for much more than 100 years already.

Let's see, there probably wouldn't have been a second world war, communism wouldn't have spread so quickly and devastated Europe, so yes.

The baron approves of this post.

>implyin hes not german

Burger pls.

I have only 4 words for that:
Better dead than red.

Yes.

Everything would've turned out better if communism didn't exist/win

>there probably wouldn't have been a second world war,
No there'd still be a war alright.

I think, it is the primary reason why (((Wall Street))) funded both the rise of Hitler and the Bolshevik revolution.

>Except if it were Weimar Germany vs White Russia, instead of Nazi Germany vs Soviet Russia, the Jews in the US and Britain would have manufactured support for Germany
That's wildly speculative. Jews attempted a communist coup in Germany, but failed. This later became the catalyst for antisemitism in Germany and Hitler's rise to power (although nearly every German politician at the time hated Jews). They couldn't use Germany against Russia. Would they lost the Russian civil war, they likely wouldn't have enough power to trigger WW2.

That's half-truth. Communism was a reaction to something.
Of course not all communists were criminal scum of Bolshevik type.

...

Commies probably looked as good guys for general people. Also whites were very disjoint.

Shame, but I guess jewry will find a way.

Bolshevik's made peace with Germany on the first day after Revolution. Stalin made a pact.

How UK industrialised then?

Well it was definitely not the elite or intelligent people because those were considered bourgeoisie

Reason why (part of) Wall Street did it was:
A) profit
B) anti-Semitic policies of Whites/Tsarist Russia
You know that Ford helped Soviets develop automotive industry?
"Capitalists will sell us the rope we'll use to hang them."
Stop thinking world is a childish conspiracy. Your (maybe) idol wrote love letters to Stalin when it suited his goals. People aren't as principled as you think.

>Commies probably looked as good guys for general people.
They seized their food and forcibly recruited them to their army. Ordinary people hated them and there were even anti-communist peasant militias.

Too bad the whites didn't win. They woulda got steamrolled so hard by Hitler and your ancestors would've been rightly exterminated to make living room for good Germans.

I think whites did the same, but commies at least promised changes.

Dude we're discussing alternative history here, it's speculative whichever way you go.
Antisemitic sentiment still existed in Soviet Russia, that didn't stop them from keeping control.
If they didn't have control over a White Russia, they would have maintained control over Germany.
Even with the Spartakists failing, they still had a fairly good hold on German politics within Weimar Germany.
It was economic hardship which made it so easy for the Nazis to provide a solution with their strongman leadership.
If Russia could be framed as the new enemy as early as the 20's, with a White Russian success (and world Jewry would still very much be up to that task), the US and Britain could have supported Germany enough to keep them politically stagnant and stop the rise of the Nazis.

Elite, no, intelligent people yes. Being intelligent doesn't make you immune to being deluded.
My point was communism spawned in reaction to early capitalism, which was quite brutal for working class.
When faced with threat of communism capitalist class compromised. Thus we got social democracy as a more sustainable and sane option, between two extremes.

Modernization is always natural.
There are evolutional forces pushing it.

Today's forcing to go backward into retarded neofeodal globalist world order is against evolutionall forces and such "progress" needs to be forcefully pushed.

Commies fucked Ruissa's gene pool with their killing spree. Russia is still coming out of this damage that was done.

Yeah, yeah, you are in every thread when it comes to Marxists/Communists.

>le childish conspiracy strawman
reformed-theology.org/html/books/bolshevik_revolution/index.html

reformed-theology.org/html/books/wall_street/index.html
Maybe you should stop viewing history through the lense of marxist dialectics?

Kolchak was idiot
All power to Wrangel for a democratic Russia
Western powers fucked up by not killing communism

Germans would have no reason to invade a non-Soviet Russia. No commies to kill.

I am because I know a bit more, I lile the subject, and I try to teach people reality instead of deluding them into bullshit like you do.
"Muh Joos" is a tool you use to explain the world because you lack knowledge to properly analyze historical events. It doesn't work. You're actively deluding yourself.
If some people wonder how could someone be a communist, you're of similar mentality, and many here.

>social democracy as a more sustainable and sane option
KEK

The only truly good alternative was social market economy, built in Germany in the 50s by Catholic conservatives. Social democracy has been the curse of the West and it is also one of the reasons why the Reich Bismarck built collapsed.

They are the driving force behind multi culturalism, non-western mass immigration, every "progressive" cancer and the deconstruction of the nation state
>inb4 muh capitalists and cheap labour

I think we all need to remember that Germany specifically funded communism abroad in Russia to destabilize them, and like always, bit off more than they can chew for their meme empire. Marx was German too, but so was every horrible person to ever exist.

youtube.com/watch?v=4ztOV2wrrkY&t=239s

This is the predictable answer I expected from you.

>I think

Do you have any evidence to back up your claims?

>remember that Germany specifically funded communism abroad in Russia to destabilize them


Partly right. Germany didnt "fund" them, they just send Lenin, who was in exile in Germany, to Russia, to destabilze them AND keeping him away from Germany, because Germany was so broken, that he could have mobilize the germans instead of the russians.

Not this meme again. Wrong on all accounts. 2 minutes on Wikipedia alone are enough to debunk that garbage.

Except Drang nach Osten, but sure.
Germans going east was not Hitler's idea, he just took it to a logical extreme.
Hitler didn't give a fuck about communism the way you think he did.
After all NS is just ethnic communism of sorts. Strasserite faction even argued for alliance with USSR.

>I think we all need to remember that Germany specifically funded communism abroad in Russia
(((Germany)))
You mean kike bankers who backstabbed their host country?
yeah...

the best uniform is no uniform

>(((wikipedia)))
>also believes that wallstreet financed Hitler when that's been debunked countless times

wew lad

But I agree with you. That's a form of social democracy however.

Guy on the left it's so commmunist that doesn't even has a picture, they put a drawing.

It's common fucking knowledge. Both reds and whites were horrible for simple people.

In the end reds were more competent/popular.

Fag

I also play kaiserreich
underrated

>It's common fucking knowledge

Not an argument.

nope
Social democracy is a retarded form to run a country.
You shaft strong middle class and small enterpreuners with taxes to give gibs to proles so thankful proles will elect you and work for little money to your sponsors (multinational, big companies) who you essentially support with those tax gibs (less payment needed).
Because this system is retarded it can not sustain themselves without immigration.

youtube.com/watch?v=ZbM_0hRTSiA

No, it was German Imperial Government that did sent jewish revolutionaries to Russia and provided them with money even before any jewish banker understood whats going on. It was the idea of Ludendorff and it was approved by Willhelm II and general staff, because it was the only way for Germany to get Russia out of the war and relocate its soldiers to the western front.
So, there would never have been Bolshevism without German involvement, whether you like to admit it or not. This is why im not standing on defeatist position in WW2, even though im fully redpilled on Jews, Communism and Hitler.
When you make a deal with the devil, be ready to give away everything for nothing. I even think we should've sent more mongols to Berlin.

Read a book, you 'murican know-it-all.

jourclub.ru/12/364/

Except most succesful countries today are social democracies.
It's easier to solve one problem (birth rates/immigration) than myriad of problems that appear in other systems.
Mass immigration is not really a socialist policy in any case. Fucking over your own people, how can it be socialism?

Russia is called the Motherland and Communism is an extreme Feminine ideology, Germany is called the Fatherland and Fascism is an extreme masculine ideology , one that arose in response to Communism.

It is the extreme of imbalance that is the problem- I doubt it would have played out terribly different if another communist group had won.

Alright hold on for a while WHILE I LEARN TO READ VODKA RUNES

Name those most successful countries.

You do know that motherland is used in English mostly? In Russian fatherland was always used more widely.

It is not socialism btw. It is (((social democracy))).

Scandinavian countries.
Germany.

Yes

>Obviously the whites should have won.

Russia would have been truly glorious.

All fucked.

White army was a bunch of cucks paid by the globalists Jews. So no.

Soviet Union kicked ass desu.

>Would world be a better place if whites won?
Of course.

In some ways not related to economy and quality of life, which is my point.

The problem is the Whites weren't a coherent political movement.

It was everything from crazies like Ungern to Kadets to disaffected Socialist Revolutionaries.

The civil war would have continued.

If you want to argue about such a hot topic as the russian civil war you should.

Because any half-credible source you asked me to show you is always 99% in Russian, for obvious reasons.

BASED

youtube.com/watch?v=2TBsJVecfI0

Social democracy works pretty well as long as your country is homogeneous

Russian is too hard. I tried that before.

he was a proto-esoteric fascist
insanely BASED