Not globalization is the problem. Automation is. That is what is destroying the job market

Not globalization is the problem. Automation is. That is what is destroying the job market.

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theverge.com/2016/12/30/14128870/foxconn-robots-automation-apple-iphone-china-manufacturing
tomshardware.com/news/research-china-sperm-extractor,17922.html
youtube.com/watch?v=SUCmHH6grsI
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>b-b-but automation actually CREATES JOBS you guys!

If you really want manufacturing jobs back, menial office jobs back, look no further than the computer you are looking at.

Destroy it right now. Then, do the same for all the computers in your town. That is how you bring back thousands of jobs in an eye blink.

But will it make society more prosperous to work with pen and paper again, to assemble everything by hand again? Of course not. So we need another solution.

someone has to build all those nice robots. just dont import millions of illiterates with an iq of sub 90. oh wait.

>implying that's the only problem with globalization

>someone has to build all those nice robots.

other robots will do that

the biggest and literally only problem with automation is the fact that there are too many people who are not smart enough to fit into a knowledge economy, and those people reproduce at higher rates than the people who can participate.

Automation is a threat to all jobs, even the people who are contributing to it. If we don't reduce the amount of people we bring into this world to compensate then the results are not going to be good.

An extra focus on interplanetary mining and resource exploitation could help us break this "hard limit" by enabling colonization. If we destroy our planet by letting brown people continue to reproduce at the rates they are we will never get there and will have some kind of Elysium setup, which is not good for anyone.

...

idle hands are the devils workshop.

GET OUT (((YOU))) SHILL.

Working class must be eliminated. Basic income/paid neethood is the future.

you first Yusuf

Colonization of space, reducing pensions/social security, and allowing birth rates to fall slowly. In the very long term space will provide us with lebensraum. Short term, easily exploitable resources (like the asteroid with $17 trillion of platinum or helium-3 on the moon's surface) will reduce but not eliminate scarcity and allow people to consume more without changing how much they work. Reducing birth rates will help us adjust to the lessening need for human engagement in the economy. The key for the last one is to reduce it across the board. White people in developed countries going down won't matter if 3rd worlders are breeding like rabbits. Also the new jobs meme isn't untrue. The trouble is it creates high skilled jobs and destroys low skilled jobs. It creates an imbalance that forces people out of the economy, at least temporarily. The obvious shift will be what's already happened, a move towards a service based economy. It's incredibly inefficient but what are you to do with all these people and no long term goal to dedicate resources to?

Yeah, I'm going to build a 3 million dollar robot to do my gardening and house cleaning rather than hiring someone to do it.

>implying robots cost that much
You can get a good robotic arm for 10k

Only if you expect to maintain the same population from 40 years ago. People points to Japan's population as a problem, then point to their automation as a problem retardedly ignoring that both (((problems))) are each other's solution naturally occurring without any intervention of a government child policies.

How long till my jerking off is automated?

and how much for the dude who codes it to do all the work? (as if this is possible kek)

You do not, since you do not have the resources, neither material nor intellectual, to automatize such trivial tasks.

Companies do. The costs of replacing a menial office job with business intelligence software like SAP are very well calculatable.

right wing retard rural freaks btfo

If we had domestic automation there would be jobs in that even when the manual jobs disappear. However China is losing their manufacturing jobs to automation.
theverge.com/2016/12/30/14128870/foxconn-robots-automation-apple-iphone-china-manufacturing

Believe me, with a world population of 7 billion souls that is going to DOUBLE in 20 years, a human life is, for the time being, far cheaper than a robot.

But where is that population doubling? Certainly not in wealthy Western countries. The population of Europe is going to drop.

The population is doubling in places like Syria, Somalia or Sudan, fuelling the waves of refugees. But that has little effect on the job markets in high-tech economies.

The soultuion is a Socialist Technocratic Utopia.
>Invest heavily into Automation and AI
>Build gigantic automated factories lowering the costs of everything
>Be ultra capitalist in that sense. Don't hire people at all if a computer can do it better and for less money.
>You now have huge gains which are going to be taxed for social policies such as free college,healthcare,welfare etc baisicly things that make simple people happy
>Give special privilages to geniuses that can improve your factories and AI hence a technocracy
>Tfw most people don't have to work and their soul perpose is to breed and make more geniuses.

tomshardware.com/news/research-china-sperm-extractor,17922.html

>If we don't reduce the amount of people we bring into this world

We need to increase the size of the world. That is to say, we need to expand to other worlds, space stations, and so on.

And no it's not impossible, it's not thousands of years off, we could start really doing it TODAY if we wanted to.
But there's no Communists trying to colonize space anymore, so governments don't give a fuck, and businessmen would rather make what "money" they can here on earth, not realizing that incredible wealth in our own solar backyard.

Oh well, honestly we're an all devouring cancer of a species and if we ever left the prison of this rock, we would just hasten the heat death of the universe.

I don't care about the "job market". I care about national sovereignty and safety of minority ethnic peoples.

>You now have huge gains

That is where your idea is flawed.
You do not make huge gains off an unemployed population.

And this is a problem how?

Yeah suuuure because there will be a future society with aitomatizatuon at the helm when Achmed takes over.....

You ought to know, with an unemployment rate of around 10%.

>inb4 unsourced charts and graphs
>MUH BABY BOOMERS LEAVING THE WORK FORCE
>BEST OBAMA HURRRRRRR

>>Tfw most people don't have to work and their soul perpose is to breed and make more geniuses.
Shlomo, be real with us.

The plan does not involve keeping people with IQs under a certain threshold around. They aren't going to make any geniuses, they'll regress to the mean.

If this weren't a fact then you wouldn't have sterilized all of those Ethiopian Niggerkikes (I'd do the same desu senpai)

can't wait for keks brought to you by neoluddite antics

Well if my country doesn't imports cars from automated company then it can't hurt me, so obviously globalization is still the problem.

>You do not make huge gains off an unemployed population.

Did you even read the other half of his post?

He proposes a paradigm shift, whereby the things that make people stupid are drastically reduced.

People don't innovate because of work, they innovate despite having to work.

youtube.com/watch?v=SUCmHH6grsI

a country doesn't import shit, it's the companies and dealers who do the importing

Country makes the laws if they allow imports or not. Globalism allows imports from all countries, which is why we call it globalism. China doesn't allows all imports, but they allow all exports.

>discussing why importing millions of illiterate brown people might not be a great idea in class
>"they do all the jobs we wont do" gets brought up
>explain that autiomation is going to wipe out most retail, office & transport jobs even eventually warehousing and contruction & that the working class will be obsolete inside 30 years
>"yeah but we'll need people to fix all those machines, so that's where all the jobs will be"
>explain again that the ratio of mechanics to cars, electricians to fuse boxes & plumbers to toilets is nowhere near 1:1
>"ugh you're just a racist"

>Did you even read the other half of his post?

I did.

>He proposes a paradigm shift, whereby the things that make people stupid are drastically reduced.

Afaik not. Afaik he proposes a Socialist Technocratic Utopia, wherein only a friction of the population is needed to do all the jobs.

At the same time, he assumes, you can have huge wealth gains. But you actually cannot, since you have a huge unemployed population, which is unable to participate in this Utopian vision.

Adapt or get left behind, you want to halt progress so people can still work as a shelf stacker and a cashier?

People are having to get smarter and more specialised in order to stay a float, and that is a GOOD thing

Just look at elephent graph that shows you how the rich people in the west made a shitload of money since the 1970 while most people didn't have their salaries increased.

Point is that the economy keeps growing every year but the people who enjoy most of the money are the corporate owners who pay very little in salary or no salaries at all due to automation. Gains can be made.

Maybe it will create a kind of anti people agenda since most of them are useless and just leach money but I don't belive the elite will try to enforce this kind of thing too aggressivly. Maybe some 2 child policy to prevent population from growing but no more then that otherwise riots..
Y

The question is only why would you as a country or individual allow progress you have no control over? The is a reason why Trump wants to ban factories to be build in Mexico. It never was about progress, it's about control over industry. We had progress to do without oil with many things and we don't for decades.

>Just look at elephent graph that shows you how the rich people in the west made a shitload of money since the 1970 while most people didn't have their salaries increased.

Indeed!
But I believe this is due to financialization of the economy, not necessecarily automation.

>necessecarily

What the.
Necessarily, I meant.

You guys really have no idea what's coming down the pipeline. I'm not even sure the best 1℅ will be able to find work in 20 years. Machine learning is just starting to to hit the job market.

>Automation is. That is what is destroying the job market.
>Implying robots working for us is a bad thing.

>automation took away all of our jobs
>time to open up the border!

Because we are in a competitive global market. I think you have to or you are slowing growth. Obviously you have to control some things for your own safety. But the whole world has to regulate some things for it to work. If the entire world signed a deal to stop making cars going less than 50mpg then it would be controllable

Are robots working for you or are they working for rich people? Hmmm. Will Matrix work for you? We could have most advanced medical equipment everywhere, for some reason we don't, because obviously they want to use what they have if they make money. If solar energy was very cheap we would all have it, since why pay for electricity? Obviously it costs less.

>People don't innovate because of work, they innovate despite having to work.

I'd argue the exact opposite actually.

People innovate because they don't want to work. There's literally nothing wrong with this as long as the work they do produces something that actually reduces the amount of work they have to do in the future.

I totally agree with you about the innovation coming from despite having to work though, the irony is that intelligent people seem to have an inability to avoid optimization.

I worked in IT for 6 years. Want to know why I was fired?

I managed to automate 90% of my work and literally ran out of work. I babysat my systems and every few months oversaw software upgrades and a small amount of capacity planning in the form of buying new hard drives and RAM.

They got rid of me because they sold the company and migrated all of it to their datacenter and cloud platform. An automation engineer and I went through the infrastructure and literally the entire business is now automated.

I had the option to go into their information security department but the whole experience depressed me so much that I just left. Watching a lot of my friends get fired and then the company picking out the best employees like a vulture was fucking soul-crushing.

Now I'm building a small automated mowing company, I've got a big batch of pic related on the way and will be installed into an entire neighborhood.

>paco can't even compete

Competition is not progress, never was, but when you are at top of competition you can force your progress upon others. You think embracing all American GMO into UK will benefit you or the GMO companies in USA? It's progress, but not for you.

I think it's mainly due to globalization but in a sense globalization is very similar to automation. You find a cheaper alternative for your labor. Instead of paying 15$/h you now pay 1$/h or less. My point is that the gains that you add by doing that(14+) should be taxed. Maybe it will hurt their competitivness but eventually every country will have to do it or it'll seize to be a country.

Also what to you mean by finanacialization of the market?

Then we would abolish currency and live in a communist like utopia.

I hate communism but if work wasn't a factor in our lives then it only makes sense. Need to control migrants though, don't wanna see everyone being mixed

>Y
I just explained why, chaim.

you're on an anonymous imageboard, nobody here's going to judge you for being honest

Would you do the shitty monoton jobs these robots do, 40 hours/week?Also unemployment rate in Germany is 4%

The problem never was who would build the robots to automate a task.

The question one should ask is "Who would buy the goods that I produce with my automated factory?"

If there is no market for the goods you produce, then your company would not in invest the time and resources necessary to automate. While machines can sit idle and wait for better market conditions better than humans, if no one will ever buy your goods you will lose money.

This is partially true. While corporations make the investments, There here is a huge market for automating trivial tasks of the masses. Small gains in productivity for a large number of people makes a large gain in overall productivity, free time and QoL. We are about to automate "Driving", selling it as a way that commuters can fiddle on their phones for an extra 20 minutes a day (along with other benefits, mind you).

I don't think big companies are going to be happy paying a 99% tax rate for the future of neetdom. Universial basic income is a socialist meme

All food is already GMO, farms are completely man made, just because it has soil it looks natural.

Competition leads to progress, or you just have a monopoly doing the same thing for hundreds of years. Our trains are ran by like 5 companies and our energy is ran by like 3. We have one of the worst rail networks and trains in Europe. Not enough competition. However the general public want to re nationalise it. That would be better than what we have now, but I do think it would be better to have a competition between many companies in the long run.

As a rule of thumb, private is better than public

That sounds like an awesome idea. I hope you're really successful.

>soon all factories will be automated

>better let china have them all

You guys are fucking retarded, Automation is marginal, globalisation is the problem.

Your shows are not made by a robot, neither are your clothes, they're just made in China

Globalisation created unfair competition, factories had to be closed because of this, way before computers, people lost their jobs

All the easy jobs that do not require being done on the territory are now being done offshore, automation is going to be a problem in the future, but right now, the whole problem is the global economy, and the companies that relocate to save a few bucks

Computers actually generate a shitton of jobs, because computer scientists require a degree and a good education, things that offshore poor countries do not have

you're literally fighting one of the only thing that globalisation has not been able to steal from the west

ratio of (insert product/item) to people (number of people making product/item)?

I am a CAD design engineer and they are desperate to find more designers. You are right there

Americans have 3 times as much GMO and related chemicals spraying needed to sustain that corporate owned plant than we in EU do. Why do you think China is bad for USA in Africa? Because Africa is a market where USA and all those other organizations can sell old equipment, old medicine and old guns. If China makes progress in Africa, who's going to buy outdated shit from USA there? Computer industry too doesn't releases everything at once, we first need to use some things, then they on purpose make thin wires inside equipment so it breaks in time, if they made them thick it would last too long or forever. Even in Hitler time those cars didn't break that easily as they do these days with those advanced cars. Corporations don't want a catch-all solution, they want complication in laws, complication in your life, so you need more than you would even need.

>If there is no market for the goods you produce, then your company would not in invest the time and resources necessary to automate. While machines can sit idle and wait for better market conditions better than humans, if no one will ever buy your goods you will lose money.

We already have this in the form of welfare.

The entire black underclass in America is subsidized by automation in farms.

You certainly can't be saying that humans won't want to consume, are you? UBI is inevitable, the problem is that we can't deploy that as an economic mechanism without also reducing the birth rate (especially of lower IQ peoples) and managing our resources.

Moving to a social currency model that gives people a way to express inherently capitalistic notions of wanting to "climb the ladder" is probably the only way to transition people away from the current economic model of currency being tied to physical objects.

The biggest problem I have with this entire timeline is that the people who work the most and are most innovative are subsidizing the worst of our species. Why should I work so hard if the people at the bottom of the barrel benefit MORE from my work than I do in the long run, simply because they didn't have to work at all and still get to exist and have children.

>CAD design engineer

How long does this take to learn?

>jews promoting socialism

im not falling for that one again

what you wrote implies that the most advanced i.e. most outsourced and offshored economies are the fittest for the switch to completely automated production
it's the chinks, injuns and other shitholes of the world who will lose the most

You will be good enough after 3 months.
People want certificates though. You are gonna need to do a bulshit course for a year or whatever. Have been doing CAD since school when I was 14 got a degree in computer aided engineering. Not many people have that degree, it's mostly civil engineer degrees at my work

>Have been doing CAD since school when I was 14 got a degree in computer aided engineering.

That's fucking cool...I'm definitely going to look into this. I think I can handle a year or so.

Our actual unemployment rate is around 7%.
And that is, despite the artificial stimulus we receive due to our weak currency. You see how dire the situation is in countries like Italy or France.

Yeah there is a lot of work for it, and it's basically 'paint' with dimensions

>globalisation is good
>german flag

What a surprise

Because globalization group the market demand as one, which makes investing in automation more profitable

>Germany, Italy, France
Those are suppose to be the stars of EU. Lets look at Portugal or Greece or Slovenia for bad times.

This.
Automation makes capitalism obsolete.

The current social-political model is not optimized for productivity, fairness, or human happiness.

The current model is intended to create a permanent, desperate underclass willing to do anything to anyone for a pittance; while eliminating competition for power from upstarts and rabble-rousers in the upper or middle classes. Power is being consolidated among those in charge to prevent their vision from being contested. Uneducated people are easier to control and "deal with" as necessary.

Globalism creates only one thing: permanent winner and eliminates all further competition. The company that gets investment first is to rule forever. It's true with computer industry, it's true with pharmacy, is true with agriculture, is true with film industry, is true with media, is true with internet, is true with everything. Creating extra big global companies is the worst thing you can do for humanity and competition. That forces everybody to work for big companies, since they literally buy politicians and write laws to their liking.

>robots taking our jobs
>need more migrants for the fewer jobs left

Logic?

>People are having to get smarter and more specialised in order to stay a float, and that is a GOOD thing
The human race is for the most part nowhere near smart or specialized enough to stay afloat in this dystopian nightmare future you're describing. Most of us will be ground up and turned into fucking robot fuel, most likely including yourself.

If I'm faced with death, I'll do whatever it takes to survive, and so will the rest of humanity. You can't just let most of the human race starve for not being economically useful enough you Jew rat piece of garbage. I WILL halt progress if it means I get to live, that is MY biological imperative, I don't care if everyone else has to suffer the mild inconvenience of having to tolerate my "unworthy" existence, I'm not going to roll over and die for your obnoxious vision.

You can't do shit

Better get learning robotics

They want a ruling class... Makes perfect sense. A lot more controllable

I suggest you start with your dreamy cuck pm

They talk about specialization, but then most of college graduates don't get job in their field and switch jobs. Nah, i don't think so.

Exactly

but automation is a problem that runs way deeper than this, if you know a bit about brain neurology, and CS, you'll know that the brain an a computer work on a very similar manner on the basics (ie: very simple electrical signals going through transistors/(neurones & synapses) and being processed)

The brain structure and way of working are miles away from those of a computer, but the most elementary principle is the same

That means that basically, anything that a human brain can do, will be done one day by a computer, and I mean EVERYTHING, from fine motor skills to philosophy.

it means that eventually, everyone will be outsmarted by robots, I don't believe that robots would have consciousness and fight us, but I believe that society could become completely assisted, we would all live hedonistic lives devoid of meaning, and human knowledge might even be lost

I said could, because I don't believe such a society could ever exist in reality, because, as unenjoyable as it is, frustration has a vital role in psychology, you need balance between joy and frustration, that is why you always enjoy success after struggle, but if the success is easy, it won't be so enjoyable

Work is necessary, working provides honor and dignity, it allows you to be part of the world, and to contribute to society, it provides just enough hardship and frustration for you to enjoy the good times, humans need this, and the whole robot fantasy, where no one would have to work wouldn't ever succeed on the long term in real lfie

>Work is necessary
Do you think working at the sewers, coal mines, mcdonalds is fun? Provides neither honor or dignity. People can get satisfaction from other things like art, sports, traveling etc. Automation will make everything cheaper and more abundant. The gains will go to social programs. How is this a bad life?

Everything can be good or bad, depends how we plan it out. Jew-run robots can't be a good thing, they might circumcise you in sleep, then brainwash you and put you into battery pod.

Well robots aren't raping women in sweden so I'm 100% sure that you are wrong

So why should Automation not happen in the United States? Why does it have to happen in china then?

To be fair, women are shoving dildos and machines in there without 2 party consent

We can't put the genie back in the bottle now. They're either going to provide basic income soon or it's going to be torches and pitchforks all around.

You say this because you never experienced it, people who suddenly became rich and decided to live a fully hedonistic life are depressed af

It's pretty logical why; the amygdalae is responsible for emotionnal response in the brain, and research has shown it gets desensitized if you feel the same emotion again and again

Basically, feel joy and enjoyment too much, and you won't feel shit anymore

also, as I said, joy is a reward, it is an evolutionary mechanism, when you do something difficult and really hard, you'll feel way better than if it was handed over to you, that's the whole principle behind die and retry videogames, it may sound like a horrible thing, but a lot of people actually enjoy it for that very reason.

that's also the reason why you'll enjoy vacations way more if you had to work all year to get them, it may sound stupid, but that's how humans work

What do when Chadrobo take your robowaifu?

i watched this program on tv this afternoon about chinese getting into the wine business.

they built this huge warehouse, like 200 metres wide by 100 metres long.

full of automation, bottling wine, and robots palletising etc.. and only 4 guys working on the floor.

You think people could produce these sofisicated vehicles with the precision and repeatability that robot assembling lines do? Not to mention it having to breath in welding fumes all day. Are you fucking retarded? Oh wait where am I... of course you are.

>Uneducated people are easier to control and "deal with" as necessary.

What I don't understand is that it seems like this is counter-productive to their vision. But I assume their vision is long enough term to be able to deal with waiting and slowly consolidating their power. We are dealing with multiple generations and family dynasties, and they seem to be very good at flipping any possible opposition into their own power structure.

>reducing labor needed while increasing productivity is a problem
humans truly are fucked

my job can't be automated.

Shitposting?

Bankers and money traders are the problem

Well I don't know about that but I belive people will always find challenges. This is going to happen regardless though. Jobs are disapearing whether we like it or not and it's not due to globalization this time.