Thread for the discussion of gun rights, gun control, legislation, ethics...
If you don't see a /grg/ thread in the catalog, feel free to create one.
KEEP IT POLITICAL! This is not a thread for the discussion of guns, it's a thread for the discussion of gun rights, everything else goes to /k/.
You are highly encouraged to post new resources and propaganda material.
IMPORTANT: You'll notice that some of the ressources here are in French. Why is that? Because in France, when the Declaration of the Rights of Man and of the Citizen was written, they almost included an article that said:
>Tout citoyen a le droit d'avoir chez lui des armes, et de s'en servir, soit pour la défense commune, soit pour sa propre défense, contre toute agression illégale qui mettrait en péril la vie, les membres, ou la liberté d'un ou plusieurs citoyens.
>Every citizen has the right to keep arms and use them, be it for the defense of others or his personal defense against any illegal agression that would put in danger the life, the members or the liberty of one or multiple citizens.
In the end, it wasn't included because the other writers judged that:
>Le droit déclaré dans l'article X était évident de sa nature, et l'un des principaux garants de la liberté politique et civile que nulle autre institution ne peut le suppléer.
>The right declared in the article X was obvious by its nature, and one of the primary keepers of civil and political liberty that no other institution can replace.
This is why some of the ressources will be in French or in other European languages, so that Europeans can spread this everywhere, in the hopes of recovering this natural right.
Pastebin: pastebin.com
Previous thread:
/grg/ - Gun Rights General: FREEDOM Edition
Other urls found in this thread:
home.nra.org
arpac.eu
tiretdefense.com
daaa-avwl.go1.cc
saf.org
assemblee-nationale.fr
freedomsphoenix.com
ag.gov.au
m.europarl.europa.eu
unpact.net
lecomiteguillaumetell.fr
armes-ufa.com
petitions.whitehouse.gov
firearms-united.com
youtube.com
twitter.com
WEBSITES
home.nra.org
arpac.eu
tiretdefense.com
daaa-avwl.go1.cc
saf.org
BOOKS
The War on Guns: Arming Yourself Against Gun Control Lies, John R. Lott Jr.
More Guns, Less Crime: Understanding Crime and Gun Control Laws, John R. Lott Jr.
The Second Amendment: A Biography, Michael Waldman
Gunfight: The Battle over the Right to Bear Arms in America, Adam Winkler
Aux armes citoyens! Plaidoyer pour l'autodéfense, Paul Lycurgues
Tir & Défense, Philippe Perotti
OTHER READING MATERIAL
assemblee-nationale.fr
freedomsphoenix.com
ag.gov.au
m.europarl.europa.eu
Agreed
Global second amendment when?
Not soon enough
Thanks for the resources!
DON'T FORGET TO EXPECT A WHITEHOUSE STATEMENT ON REPEALING THE NFA
petitions.whitehouse.gov
We're in a 60 day window in which the Whitehouse is supposed to address this petition. It earned a quarter million signatures with a 100,000 goal. Call your Congressmen if you have to. We can't let this slide.
and next, the world
The only problem is that Macron will strip French of their weapons. until March there is plenty of time to implement the EU law on semi auto already. This doesn't look good at all...
UN is absolutely against civilians having weapons, we will have to fight hard for it. First step will be to get rid of the EU and NATO. So called "elites" don't want armed angry citizens.
I don't agree with OP when he said the X amendment was thought so natural it wasn't included in the declaration, it was deleted by elites, for elites. The people were never consulted on these laws.
What about this EU law? When I make a Google search I find that it's a law that's supposed to ban the sale of semi-automatic firearms and restrict the sales of others, but I can't find any info on when it's supposed to be voted or enacted.
>Inb4 ShareBlue
I think a large hurdle of the 2A is restructuring the 9th circuit.
This desu. I always go to mexico to get shit faced and fuck bitches, and I've always thought guns could help the place out a lot.
I love the bogus arguments leftists make for gun control. They argue against the ar-15, because of 30 round mags. As if reducing the bullets makes each bullet less deadly. It's so arbitrary. If properly motivated, mag changes ain't shit. State law doesn't matter if your car isn't torn apart at the state line in a search.
A slam fire zip gun firing a 12 gauge shell can be made with stuff from a friggin hardware store. Access to a modest machine shop will give you the ability to make everything except match grade rifling if you have an understanding of machinery and some time.
Poles in Warsaw made flamethrowers and open bolt, automatic subguns UNDER German occupation.
It's a Pandoras box, and the left needs to realize it can't be closed.
Exactly, the only problems linked to guns come from the fact that not everyone's armed.
I think you can get some info there : firearms-united.com
I don't understand exactly how a law is made official in the EU
I will never be able to understand the mindset of a anti gunner, why would you willfully disarm yourself and give all the power to the state and the elites
"Only the police should have weapons!"
>okay
*cops shoot black kid*
"OMG the police is raycis and 2 powerful!"
COME THE FUCK ON WHAT DO YOU WANT.
I dated a girl who was raped by a security guard at her job. She doesn't like cops for that reason. I suggested we go shooting as a date activity once (yeah I know, sperg).
She said "guns kinda freak me out"
Bitch, it's a piece of metal.
It seems like things are going to get better in the US.
I hope Eurobros start getting lucky soon, too.
>I don't understand exactly how a law is made official in the EU
I think that's the point, they're trying to keep citizens confused
No idea man, the only answer they're capable of giving me is: "people will just start killing each other for no raisin!!!1!"
Let's hope so man
>More Guns, Less Crime: Understanding Crime and Gun Control Laws,
This is an example of what you aren't supposed to do with research.
To anybody in the U.S., would you join the CMP if it was some form of government initiative or tax break?
Like, in europe, they have limited conscription. The bare minimum preparations for a conflict. Outright military service in the U.S. is, in my opinion, laughable with no wars going on, unless you are highly skilled and incredibly lucky. Too many women and welfare schmucks dragging their feet for the term of their obligation to get them college gibs.
Reviving the CMP in its original role would be somewhat akin to a "well-regulated militia" that left leaning people claim is the crux of the second amendmentseason wording.
Broken down to a community level, it could build ownership and values. Leaders encourage you to do better, give advice and pointers, your fellows and you would become socialable, and I certainly believe it could help people more understanding and favorable to people being in possession of weaponry. Like a soft warrior culture.
What do you mean?
His research was extremely flawed. He often mixed up correlation and causation, used unreliable and sometimes conflicted sources, he started by trying to prove his hypothesis, not disprove it.
Anyone with a college level education can tell you that this is a textbook example of bad research.
I think he's saying you shouldn't draw a conclusion from research...
I'm a little torn on the issue, but I think he has a point. We have a problem with media telling people that x means y.
Would it be better to offer it up as a strict "here's the data draw your own conclusions?". That promotes debate at least. To deny the data would be rightly challenged.
The wording of that source could be construed as a declaration more than a suggestion.
Doge this.
Oh ok, I didn't know that since I haven't read the book myself, I just saw that he was a popular author and included this book, I'll probably take it out of the list if it sucks. Is The War on Guns shitty too?
Disarmement is the greatest crime
youtube.com
It sounds biased for sure. But I haven't read it. I'll see if I can find it.
Honestly France considering how many Muslims is in country you really should not legalise guns.
I'm sorry to break it to you, but arabs in France are already armed. The only ones that are disarmed are the lawful Frenchmen.
I downloaded the sample on kindle. It is written as near as I can tell in anticipation of Hillary getting elected. Yknow, the worst timeline.
At least that's what I see in the intro. It makes some good points and useful citations, but as a scholar I suppose he's politicized. In the same way we would deny a scholar who is adamant for globalism and extensive, welfare multiculturalism, I don't think you're going to have anybody take you seriously who isn't already for it.
Half way through, he talks about how gun control is being pushed economically, e.g., suing manufacturers if their model is used in a crime, railing against manufacturers for selling products at reasonable prices for the investment. That makes sense to me. Classes, licensing (in some states), and the cost of a gun and any additional equipment needed could rack up to be more than the lower class could afford. He also draws comparison between that and voter ID laws. Which...I *think* is valid. An ID is inexpensive.
I think it would be better to put this in an infograph. Something about how guns have been growing pricier in respect to inflation. But I have no idea how to get that data.
I mean, it's not denied that poverty and crime are like oreos and milk. That kinda boils down to education in my mind. Provide people guidance and opportunity instead of letting them twist in the wind for being poor. Which is why I was mentioning the CMP here: I'd say there's a better way to present this data, collected by somebody who isn't well known for their positive stance towards guns ownership.
/k/ probably has some good stats flying around.
9th circuit actually plays into our hands, ultimately. You need an opposing circuit to have a circuit split and you need a circuit split to have SCOTUS take an interest.
What exactly is there to discuss?
No gun regulations for native population.
>What exactly is there to discuss?
Activism?
»not an mp5
»not an m16
The economic angle is definitely the new edge of gun control, but they've basically lost the ability to sue manufacturers. At this point, the problem is taxes, fees, and requirements. I live in Chicago, we won at SCOTUS to overturn the handgun ban and in the 7th Circuit to force shall issue. If someone didn't have a gun at all and wanted to start carrying while living in Chicago, this would be the process:
>Apply for a FOID on the internet (if you don't have a computer you have apply by phone, then they mail you your application for a signature and for you to attach a photograph they won't use, then you mail it back). The fee is $10, $11 if you pay electronically.
>Wait. The statute says 30 days is the maximum, Illinois has been sued over it and lost multiple times. Current wait times are between 60 and 90 days.
>Now you can buy a gun!
>Not in Chicago, though. The city lost a court case in 2011 requiring them to allow gun ranges and stores in the city. No range or store currently exists due to zoning restrictions. They've lost a second case over that. Still no store.
>If you buy in Cook County (which you're going to do unless you want to drive over an hour) theres a $25 tax on all firearms. This is in addition to the 6.25% Illinois sales tax, the 1.75% Cook County sales tax, and any municipal sales tax which might exist. Lets say the gun you bought was $400, your total taxes will be $61.
>Take the 16 hour concealed carry class. It runs between $120-$150 here.
>Pay $150 fee for the licenses, plus $3 if you pay electronically. The license itself follows the same process as the FOID, hope you have a computer.
>Wait 90 days, 120 if you didn't shell out $60 to get printed
So, all in, fees, taxes, and requirements for a poor person in Illinois to carry a $400 gun are going to run $421, take 16 hours of their time (more if you count filling out paperwork), and still run close to six months of waiting.
The system is designed to discourage.
They dont really give a fuck about petitions like this. Nothing is ever discussed from these petitions.