I've watched this and only this about Obamacare. Please tell me the other side of the story and explain how the replacement is going to be better.
Especially refundable tax credits, it's literally government paying for insurance as a tax cut instead of subsidy. How are Republicans okay with this but not Obamacare? How much strain did Obamacare put on government budget?
Also which companies support repealing the Obamacare? I thought companies were really into it.
Other urls found in this thread:
gop.com
prisonlegalnews.org
npr.org
youtube.com
twitter.com
>watching the almighty cuck king unironically
you must be new here, get the fuck out.
>Only learning one sides of the arguments while claiming to be the redpill dispenser
No, you get out.
>implying he says anything worth debating
yeah im not gunna waste my time having political discourse with someone who thinks trump is a racist.
>I assume I'm right therefore there is no reason to debate
The ACA is one of the most Republican things ever.
I watched one episode of this faggot's show on gun control, and it literally took me two minutes of research to find out that his statistics were NOT EVEN CLOSE to the truth.
He's one of the worst hacks in the media.
>but he's le funny xD
Only retards let paid comedians spoonfeed them propaganda.
But he's not the topic of discussion, what is the point of repealing Obamacare?
I confess I used the image to gain attention but you guys are too easily triggered.
>a comedy satire show is now a argument
You're not wanted here, nor do we have any obligation to "redpill" you.
That's what I don't understand. It's pro business, it does not put a lot of strain on the budget and it's quite beneficial. What is Republican side of the story?
Yet here I am. Maybe "you" aren't all that powerful.
A. get a job
B. buy health insurance
That's how you get health insurance.
But that's exactly what Obamacare does, except you get subsidized insurance when you are unemployed which is acceptable.
Proposed replacement is literally "We'll give you tax cuts, do whatever" this would do nothing to reduce the cost of insurance while if the risk is shared among all insurance costs are lowered.
Stop LARPING faggot. I live in a socialized medicine Country. Good for a common cold, but anything more serious and they'll either fork over the cash for American specialized treatment, or take the gamble that what they have won't kill them till the incredibly slow cogs of bureaucracy kick in.
Not to mention your basically hooking up a generation to life support. Maybe if people still had community, and had to work for a living, there wouldn't be the need for the life strangling equalization payments.
Just watch the Bernie Sanders vs Ted Cruz debate. Read about 29ers and 49ers.
>You're not wanted here
Who started larping first I wonder?
I didn't do those but I already read this:
gop.com
And it makes no sense. How is larger customer base driving the insurance prices up? There is no explanation. Are there explanations rather than baseless claims in that discussion?
I don't ever watch him, so I don't know what the other side would be.
I do know that no plans have been finalized. Trump was meeting last night on it, so I doubt Mr current year had correct info at the time of his show.
Why are Republicans against it then? Why is it a "disaster"?
Infighting. Partisan politicizing.? Your guess is as good as mine.
It's basically you are forced to buy insurance, with no caps or control, for the insurer. It was supposed to make healthcare affordable, but the price before (Obama care) was cheaper, and it's constantly risen in monthly price with a bigger deductible since inception.
It's more a tax on breathing, imo. Prisons are using it to subsidize their healthcare.
But forcing everyone to buy insurance is the only way to get insurance companies to agree to cover regardless of pre-existing conditions. Otherwise they would defend themselves by saying "This guy didn't join our risk group and now he wants insurance, even if he pays twice the premium for the remaining days he'll not make us money".
Insurance prices rose definitely, but the risk companies had to take is also increased, it's not because everyone is forced to buy insurance. Larger group that shares the risk is good for reducing insurance premiums.
So you don't mind subsiding prison healthcare with your payments?
prisonlegalnews.org
They pay zero into it, yet receive the benefits.
So do you mind paying taxes for prisons? It's the same thing and not a very good argument. But I agree I don't want to pay for insurance for prisoners. However we have to deal with it some way, Obamacare is not perfect but solves problems for a lot of people.
Because it isnt getting a larger customer base because its incentives are fucked
>Relies on young people signing up
>Forces companies to no longer allow price discrimination or not sell so they have to bear the cost of people who are expensive to ensure with no control
>Companies have to raise prices everywhere to do this
>Prices rise so fast young people would rather pay the fine then buy overpriced healthcare that couldnt even use
>So its fundamental premise doesnt work and healthcare cost are not controlled
This is the death spiral people are talking about, young people will not sign up and should not be simply penalized at increasing rates to buy insurance they dont need. The prices will keep rising until its useless for everyone or companies just go bankrupt
Deductibles cut out the government middle man. One less layer of burocracy and therefore one less layer of corruption and inefficiency.
Maybe, but OP set the tone by using his picture. Classic blunder.
>do you mind paying taxes for prisons
i don't mind paying taxes for that. as long as the prisoners rot without any amenities.
>However we have to deal with it some way, Obamacare is not perfect but solves problems for a lot of people.
alright here's a fun solution: everyone gets separated into brackets of equal income, health, age, race, location, etc, and then the majority of obamacare payments go to people in their own bracket.
In addition, healthy people like me didn't buy in. I use the doctor once every three years, because that's all I need. Usually anti biotic for flu or sinus infection. If O care is $150 a month, I'm paying $5400 in services I don't get, for one $100 trip to the doc. Then I haven't touched my deductible, so I'm paying out of pocket for it. So if I needed penicillin once every three years I'm paying $5500 for it.
Seems wasteful, desu. I can buy them on line for $50 or from Mexico/Canada for $10.
>I've watched this and only this about Obamacare.
Kill you kike family, and then kill yourself.
>Please tell me the other side of the story and explain how the replacement is going to be better.
Stop subsidizing fat fucks, niggers, on-purpose teen single mothers, smokers, etc who are a HORRIBLE drain on the system. Literally everyone thrown off the rolls is SCUM.
>But forcing everyone to buy insurance is the only way to get insurance companies to agree to cover regardless of pre-existing conditions.
Well hey, as long as it's good for the retards with preexisting conditions who apparently have no idea how insurance works, then great, fuck the other 99.9% of people lol
>We should force casinos to let you place your bets after they've already spun the roulette wheel!
Part of what failed about obamacare is that the assumption was that when young people were forced to buy insurance, they'd be treated as if the insurance company were pricing insurance to someone who was young, healthy, and didn't need it, i.e.: not very comprehensive, but cheap. Instead, what actually happened, is young people were told they had to pay the difference of everyone else for literally no benefit to themselves. Now your not very good insurance plan that you won't use costs over $1000, and the fine is $650. Doesn't take a genius to see how this results in people leaving the system, no one picking up the difference, companies opting out.
>Relies on young people signing up
Literally any insurance company relies on this.
>Forces companies to no longer allow price discrimination or not sell so they have to bear the cost of people who are expensive to ensure with no control
This was part of the reason why there were a lot of uncovered people and why there is something like Obamacare. It's against the philosophy behind sharing the risk when they can just back out of it when they please, forcing everyone to buy insurance is a compromise to get companies to agree to this.
>Prices rise so fast young people would rather pay the fine then buy overpriced healthcare that couldnt even use
Yeah this is a downside. But still better than having coverage that is fickle.
>So its fundamental premise doesnt work and healthcare cost are not controlled
I don't think the goal was to reduce the healthcare cost. I mean through getting everyone insured they tried to make it easy for people to access affordable care but it didn't really have an objective to reduce the healthcare costs directly.
Insurance companies are getting a larger customer base that part is wrong for certain.
Cut out the middle man? Who was the middle man in Obamacare for not subsidized insurance? If anything tax refund adds IRS as the middle man or another agency to give refunds or offer tax free health savings account.
It's not the same. Ocare is federal, it was states problems before. Now if you live in New Hampshire, and have Ocare you subsidize state prisons in Nevada. Before you paid for your state, now it's the nation.
Not the same.
>Yeah this is a downside. But still better than having coverage that is fickle.
jesus fucking christ
>I don't think the goal was to reduce the healthcare cost. I mean through getting everyone insured they tried to make it easy for people to access affordable care but it didn't really have an objective to reduce the healthcare costs directly.
You're an idiot. Google what the "AFFORDABLE CARE ACT" was pledged to do. Show me the Democrat who said it will not make premiums go down.
the critical mistake you are making is arguing for obamacare from an economical standpoint. economically obamacare is a blundering fuck up.
Do you know what a compromise is?
The objective wasn't reducing healthcare costs though which is what I pointed out. The total sum insurance company or you paid to the healthcare provider remained the same.
How is having a larger customer base is a blundering for an insurance company?
>We should force casinos to let you place your bets after they've already spun the roulette wheel!
But this is exactly what insurance companies did before Obamacare. Are you supporting my point?
mate, i was obviously talking about the policy, not the effect of the policy on insurance companies.
Is he, dare I say it... our guy?
It's not for the company. It sucks for the consumer.
> let's mandate that everyone must purchase this commodity or be fined. Then we will put no caps on it so the insurance company can charge whatever they like. No free market exists, the way we've created it, so people have no choice but to pay.
It a disaster for the users who are given no options, not the insurance company.
>I thought companies were really into it.
Major insurance companies are backing out left and right because the Billions of tax dollars King Barry handed directly to insurance company CEOs has dried up.
Of course, I'm not arguing that insurance costs did not rise after Obamacare. You should be more clear.
then you're arguing for a policy that can be replaced by educating people who don't know how proper health insurance practices work, and dumping the people that don't want to learn until they want to learn.
But how are you going to get them to agree to cover people with existing conditions otherwise? It's a fair compromise to control the price for a product that has inelastic demand, it is one of the boundary conditions of free market.
If you have a restaurant then you're mandated by law that you have to also feed every single homeless person that walks in, what do you think is going to happen to your business?
You now have a huge "customer base!" that includes the entire population of the city, and the population of other countries too! You should be huge, right?
Your kitchen becomes unable to keep up with the demand, services go to shit, and what people are able to pay get charged more.
Literally everyone except liberals predicted exactly what was going to happen with health care. It's basic business math, but liberals have never actually run a business. They just tax businesses.
It was perfectly clear to me.
Elite democrats are the only people on the planet to have the required mental capacity to organize something as complex as health care.
Trump and his cabinet of rural and suburban retards will only succeed in crashing the economy.
Remember: when you make fun of Africans for being dumb, you need to remember that without coastal democrats, you are essentially 100% identical and indistinguishable from third world niggers.
You are subhuman waste.
Is there a single soul that wouldn't be fairly annoyed when they get rejected coverage for insurance for an existing condition they didn't even know they had?
Is there a single soul that wouldn't try to get coverage as soon as they get seriously ill and die miserable after getting rejected?
Let's solve all these issues together by making everyone buy the insurance is what Obamacare was about as far as I understand.
Fuck that fat nihilistic piece of shit.
"HURR DURR I'll embrace absurdity and be a fat fuck while being a social leech"
How this piece of human waste has enough followers to justify a shitty channel is beyond me.
I don't have pre-existing conditions, so I honestly don't care.
People with pre existing conditions don't worry about how I can pay my bills, so it's not my job to care.
le current year man is right
Jesus christ, he has not aged well over the last year.
>only .01 percent of people have a pre-existing condition
wildly inaccurate
Insurance companies do not work similar to restaurants. As you have more people chipping in the total risk is divided.
Even if your analogy is correct than there will be another restaurant opening soon because if everyone is forced to eat somewhere it'll get pretty lucrative and they can feed a few homeless people each.
>is american
>the only knowledge he has about his healthcare system is what some hook-nosed jew told him
wew
Then you don't understand how insurance works at all.
>Is there a single soul that wouldn't be fairly annoyed when they get rejected coverage for insurance for an existing condition they didn't even know they had?
if an insurance company is actually going to straight up come to you and say "No, we are not covering you at all, leave the premises and put whiteout on our entry in the phone book" over a condition you have, you are probably fucked beyond all compare and should go looking for charity.
seriously. insurance companies do not flat out deny coverage unless you are on death's doorstep. i have a mate who (IN AUSTRALIA, WHERE WE HAVE FREE PUBLIC HEALTHCARE AND PRIVATE HEALTHCARE COMPANIES ARE EVEN PICKIER THAN AMERICAN ONES) was accepted for coverage with a fucked up heart valve, partial brain damage, and occasional seizures. to be flat out denied means that you're probably a 600 pound lardass or have a history of like 3 heart attacks.
i understand that this sort of stuff is worrying to think about, but you can't solve it with governmental policy.
>Is there a single soul that wouldn't try to get coverage as soon as they get seriously ill and die miserable after getting rejected?
you should have done it previously, and if you get into serious shit there are a lot of charitable organizations that will help you out. and biomed companies if you're willing to take that risk.
>As you have more people chipping in the total risk is divided.
not if you're forced to take everyone who shows on your doorstep in.
I'm a centrist. Can someone who is a conservative on Sup Forums actually argue against a single payer system for basic care? Why wouldn't this work:
* Single payer, nation-wide coverage for basic care: broken bones, childhood fever, injury, malaria, schizophrenia, drug abuse, etc.
* Private coverage available for additional care like dental, vision, elective surgeries, plastic surgeries, etc.
* Taxes are calculated as a percentage of your income, weighted by age. Younger people pay a smaller %, older people pay more, up to a certain amount.
* Completely do away with the VA, Medicare, Medicaid, various existing programs.
Wouldn't this provide everyone with basic care, create the widest possible pool, eliminate insurance middle-men for the most likely of ailments, reduce wait times for elective surgeries and offer superior additional care?
>Implying that I didn't use him to lure responses in a board that ignores logical arguments
There is the TV debate on CNN with Soarin' Ted and Bernie Sanders.
you sound just like them when you say things like that
I want to pay for health insurance like I pay for car insurance. If I live a healthy lifestyle, I should be in a different risk pool than a sedentary dorito eater.
If you read the thread, he's shilling.
> starts with I don't understand, please explain.
> about half way through starts explaining to everyone things he didn't understand a few posts ago
> is now posting about how great Obama care is and how we should get behind it
Classic shill
I don't care about Australia so I didn't even read.
>not if you're forced to take everyone who shows on your doorstep in.
You know large percentage of people are healthy right? They're forcing everyone to buy insurance so that no one would show up at the door dying.
No it really wouldn't.
t. britbong that has exclusively used private healthcare for the past five years.
Not only would it not achieve this at all, but in your post you post "taxes" as if that's a given. There is literally no argument there why I should pa for other people's health.
>
Do you not know how insurance works? The more people they HAVE to insure the more they will be paying out in insurance claims. Since they can't say no to anyone, they now have to take on HUGE liabilities like fat fucks like that youtuber. This means they now need to charge higher premiums
Oh you caught me, hahah. Smart boy.
Watch the Ted Cruz vs Bernie Sanders CNN debate from a couple weeks ago. Cruz BTFO Sanders' old tired ass.
>insurance
"death spiral"
The CEO of Aetna even said it himself.
I don't care because I don't have it. I'm happy to pay a fine. I understand it perfectly, I won't buy it.
>But forcing everyone to buy insurance is the only way to get insurance companies to agree to cover regardless of pre-existing conditions.
This is the fundamental problem with the concept. The fact of the matter is that there is no way of doing this that isn't hideously expensive, because our country is overrun with landwhales and niggers.
I'm out of words.
Your president (well ex-president thank god) owes me about $1000 dollars, over a little more than a year or so, because I was forced to purchase Obamacare (or otherwise they wouldn't give me a visa) while working inside the US.
So, yeah Brock where's my $1000 at?
All I need to know, really. I never wanted your shitty health insurance nor do I need it, nor do I want to subsidy shitty fat fucks who benefit obamacare.
good god you're a faggot current year man presents nothing of value gtfo kys
the retarded thing about leftists is they think comedians and actors are the authority on politics.
This debate was pretty funny. Even CNN couldn't turn it into a cuckfest.
>I didn't read the thread THE POST
Wouldn't the argument be for disease prevention (care for people who have communicable disease) and general productivity (keep people in the work force instead of sick/not working)?
You are a safe driver, but if another driver runs into you, you want them to have insurance as well, regardless of their risks.
>I don't care about Australia so I didn't even read.
you should read it since the bit about australia's healthcare system was only a small part.
>You know large percentage of people are healthy right? They're forcing everyone to buy insurance so that no one would show up at the door dying.
you are dealing with VERY large numbers here.
if the average healthy person might need to take a claim out, it's probably over something like a broken bone, or the results of a light car crash, or a very nasty cut, etc. not life threatening, probably something that can be solved with a few days in the hospital and a bunch of medications. the amount of claims that this group would take out is quite low, and the amount of money needing to be paid out is quite low.
if you do what obamacare is doing and force everyone to sign up and pay into the system, you now have a bunch of people who will take a LOT more claims out costing a LOT more money than the insurance company would rather have.
>Elite democrats are the only people on the planet to have the required mental capacity to organize something as complex as health care.
Then why is it that all the "intelligent" liberals I know are vegans whose skin looks like leather, who have nothing but personal problems and meltdowns with 70% of everyone they ever got close to in life, their children hate them, they hate their parents, they're deep in debt, are alcoholics, have had deep bouts of suicidal tendencies, etc.
How do these types of people know anything about "health"?
I knew the moment you started explaining things you said you didn't understand.
It's a real weak Socrates that most people with an education should be able to see. Have fun with your thread, Obama care will be torpedo'd
Another argument I forgot, the biggest problem to me, as a moral counter to your ethical argument that you shouldn't pay for someone else's health care (which I generally agree with) is that the current system is fucked for even responsible people.
You can be perfectly healthy and productive, you can save money, you can plan for retirement, but if you get cancer it can instantly bankrupt you. Not many people can come up with $500,000+ on the spot. Shouldn't you have some kind of system that allows people to live, work, and save, without the impending doom of getting cancer?
>I've watched this and only this about Obamacare.
That right there is where you went wrong.
republican health care solution: just fucking die already and take your poor kids with you.
>It's against the philosophy behind sharing the risk when they can just back out of it when they please, forcing everyone to buy insurance is a compromise to get companies to agree to this.
If this was true, actuaries wouldn't exist. Charging customers for insurance based on their likelihood of paying out is the basics of the basics.
>if you do what obamacare is doing and force everyone to sign up and pay into the system, you now have a bunch of people who will take a LOT more claims out costing a LOT more money than the insurance company would rather have.
Again, I'm out of words.
>Shouldn't you have some kind of system that allows people to live, work, and save, without the impending doom of getting cancer?
it's called charity, get your wallet out. in ye olden days you were generally required by society to pay money to churches and so on, and they would provide care for the poor. you don't need the government.
if you can't handle economics 101 that's not my problem.
I'm going to pay my insurance premiums with the responses I get from this thread, thanks for your contribution.
>if you can't handle economics 101 that's not my problem.
I thought I couldn't have been more out of words.
Lol. I'm eating a bullet if I get cancer. My wife knows this, hates it, but has to accept it. I'd rather die than watch doctors and hospitals bankrupt me.
Look into medical savings accounts (MSA)
Subsidizing unhealthy lifestyles isn't really doing any disease prevention.
Insurance companies are a thing. The basic idea is that many people come together and pay fees to get coverage against low probability, unpredictable and high cost accidents (here diseases).
The thing is, there is still no argument to force people into this association (which is spending other people's money). This is of course made much worse by the fact that healthcare spending is not at all unpredictable, to a large degree, so you end up being forced into an association with people living unhealthy lives.
Nothing stopped your from leaving.
>You can be perfectly healthy and productive, you can save money, you can plan for retirement, but if you get cancer it can instantly bankrupt you. Not many people can come up with $500,000+ on the spot.
This isn't how it works. A preexisting condition is defined as one for which you were treated before the insurance plan entered into effect, or under a more broad definition, one for which you were sufficiently symptomatic that a prudent person would have sought treatment, prior to the policy entering into effect.
If it worked like you say, almost on one would be getting cancer treatments, but oncology wards were busy places before obongo care.
It's because they think they're genuine people when they make them laugh. Colbert is my funy friend he'd never lie to me! :D It's funny because it's true! Masterful propaganda.
Nothing stops you from not being a 1 post CTR whiney little bitch. Yet, here you are.
Oliver isn't even fucking funny. A lot if not most of the jokes are just shoehorned references to random shit that can barely qualify as satire, and he always overdoes the delivery. He's honestly just annoying.
The best value for a product or services is when supply and demand are functioning normally.
Obamacare, college tuition, military contracts create distortion on finding a price because in effect you have one side a blank check and told them to fill in whatever they feel is "fair".
Np. Your smarter than the average shill we get, so I'm not even sageing. I should be paying attention to my electrical theory class, but it's fucking boring.
You aren't shariablue, they hire idiots.