Hi pol. When does life start? When egg is fertilized by sperm? Abortion discussion please

Hi pol. When does life start? When egg is fertilized by sperm? Abortion discussion please.

Picture for attention only.

Other urls found in this thread:

youtube.com/watch?v=pc0jJa5dKqU
twitter.com/SFWRedditImages

When you turn off the computer.

As always, fpbp

It's a human life at conception, but it isn't conscious. I think abortion should be allowed if it is the choice of the mother, but it is among the most moral abhorrent acts on earth. That said, the government has no business restricting it.

Life does, in fact, start at conception. The argument comes from what time a fetus is considered a human with rights.

Well considering insects are alive and how life is generally defined then it's conception. Sentience or importance to where it matters not to destroy it is another matter, however.

Bad question. Apply reductionism to the definition of "life" and eventually come to the conclusion that even the idea of an individual with distinct boundaries between one and the environment is just an idea we hold and not a physical thing acknowledged by the reality of atoms and motion.

We need to instead ask ourselves honestly about our feelings on the subject, with full understanding that science has nothing to offer on this care other than physical truths of how biology works.

...

>When egg is fertilized by sperm?
I read an interesting article recently about how scientists witness a "flash of light" the moment the egg is fertilized.

The sperm is alive. The ovum is alive. The fertilized egg is alive. It's a continuous biological process where life does not begin or end at any point.

...

neat

The second a sperm fertilizes an egg life begins objectively. If you do nothing to interfere at that point a baby will develop over 9 months time. Any other argument is arguing the right to murder your own children to make your life easier.

Crucially though sperm and egg cells cannot self replicate sooo factually life DOES begin at conception

this 2 B honestly
I've alway found the "when does life begin" debate to be an asinine one.
life began some billions of years ago

>The bright flash occurs because when sperm enters an egg it leads to a surge of calcium which triggers the release of zinc from the egg.
Wow! Now I believe in God!
>"We discovered the zinc spark just five years ago in the mouse"
Wow! Mice have a soul after all! Now I believe in Mouse God and Mouse Paradise!

Life started at the big bang (or the beginning of the universe). We are an extension of that.

>When you turn off the computer.
sauce?

Because liberals don't understand the concept of the cell being alive, I just say it's when the heart starts beating

Life starts at conception
Human rights start at the fetus reacting to light and sound stimuli imo.

Self-replication is not a necessary definition of life. People who are sterile are not dead.

Stop posting Ukie woman

That isn't true, don't be obtuse. They understand that cells, bacteria, etc. are alive, they just don't consider it worthy to give them moral consideration as one would a human.
Plants and animals we eat react to stimuli too, and yet we don't extend them human rights.

sauce on that pic, my man?

but are they not granted animal rights and enviromental protection?
Obviously we aren't giving human rights to a cat my dude :/

Life begins at conception, but personhood (and thus the threshold of murder) begins when consiousness does.

>but are they not granted animal rights and enviromental protection?
...no

brb having an existential crisis

>pedro's face
fuck me these get better and better

You'd think that, but you'd be wrong.

In regards to abortion this is completely irrelevant. It should be a matter of choice for the parents, or simply for the woman, if she wants to keep it or butcher it. If this triggers you, maybe you should petition lawmakers to change the term abortion to fetus murder. Because the action is in fact the killing of a living being. And I still wholly defend and support the right to kill unborn children. Even born children in some circumstances. And although I may not support it past a certain time period, I still don't give a shit because it has nothing to do with me, and it has nothing to do with you either, so fuck off.

I have never understood how any other argument is plausible, there are two seperate things that on their own will become nothing, once connected they begin to form a human. nothing to something. I know it dosent look like one yet but babies dont look like full grown adults either.

when else could anyone possibly point to as life starting? I'm not even religious or anti abortion (for minorities) it just seems absurd to say that the first two months are just bullshit but the first day after that then its a people. the pro choice have no ground to stand on.

A baby can stop developing in that 9 months on its own, or due during birth, and without external care after birth will perish, or perish at a young age anyway, our being incapable of reproduction ask of which disqualifies it from the definition of "life: the condition that distinguishes animals and plants from inorganic matter, including the capacity for growth, reproduction, functional activity, and continual change preceding death.", and so on which makes your "OBJECTIVELY" really fucking wrong.

It's useless to answer the question.
The OP wants a discussion on abortion, and that is totally a discussion reliant on the feelings of people.
You say "I imagine this unborn child growing to age and I feel that abortion would be murder and bad." NOT "life begins at this point and thus ending life by abortion is thus murder and therefore wrong "

Isn't his name Pablo?

An egg and a sperm are already living things. Not a reason not to murder the baby tho.

Life starts when you die.

conception is a loose term
Even when sperm enters the egg, it might not successfully merge
There are still several steps before it becomes a cell that can form an embryo
And even then there are many more steps before implantation into the womb

If you consider conception or life to begin as soon as the sperm starts to enter the egg, then most pregnancies occur after many many miscarriages.

shit i just remember p***o
he probably got fired for becoming a meme of will of his own

This picture shows purity and that ridicules it with bare breasts. Fuck this shit.

You got my attention with that pic for sure.

There's no hard line for when life "starts" because it's a continuous development process. Our definition of life is a construct that we use to determine whether something has any claim to ethical consideration.

Extreme pro-choicers who claim that life begins only once a baby is born is a bit ridiculous because fetuses beyond 26 weeks can potentially live independently if you simply induced birth rather than aborted. Even extreme pro-choice advocates don't argue that infants don't have claim to ethical consideration.

Pro-life arguments that life begins at conception is problematic as well because it's unclear why a fertilized egg cell should receive ethical consideration when far more complex life forms capable of conscious suffering are not. The typical reasoning is that it is based on the human potential, but most fertilized eggs do not implant and even if they do, many will miscarry. It is often recommended for pregnant women to wait until after the 12 week mark before declaring that they're pregnant because so many pregnancies will miscarry before this point.

Some try to draw the line somewhere during in utero development, whether that's the development of a brain, whether the fetus is recognizably human, or whether there's a heartbeat present, or what have you. The reality is that the earlier the abortion, the less ethically "problematic", while the later the abortion, the more you approach the moral dubiousness of infanticide. Late term abortions (typically only performed in the case of life threatening illness) are basically baby murder to save the mother's life. You kill the baby in utero, cut the baby into smaller pieces, and then the mother gives birth to her dead baby's body parts.

In the end, abortion should not be considered free of moral qualms and should always be a serious decision. Whether an abortion is appropriate depends on both the reasons and the timing.

WEN DEM TITTYS IS ON MUH DIK

Semantics my dear canadian, semantics

I guess sperms are 'alive' but a zygote has complete (and it's own unique) DNA. You have Life which is clearly and objectively no longer 'her body' which is pretty devastating when I think about how much abortion has been pushed in the UK even onto underage girls :(

These are mad times, who'd have thought 5 years ago that murican bible thumpers and MARY FUCKING WHITEHOUSE were right all along?? I can't wait for the lest of the de-programming

When you start paying taxes.

idk my life didn't start yet

As soon as the sperm fertilizes the egg.

Once it has it's own form of DNA, it is technically considered life.

it was always too late
youtube.com/watch?v=pc0jJa5dKqU

Having your own unique DNA is not a necessary definition element to be an individual being. There are plenty of biological components with their own DNA which are not excluded from someone's body, like a person with a transplanted organ or with chimera DNA. The one arguing semantics is you. You can't make a single sentence without using a definition you made up on the spot to support whatever belief you desperately want to be true.

how do we interracially inseminate those two wymns

Objectively get sterilized or kill your self its people who think liie you who find justifications for all forms of murder sexual perversion and evil.

David Dubnitskiy

When Heart starts beating
that means 18-24 days after conception.

was the CP on tor really worth it?

That's an odd way to define life. Every cell on your body besides your germ cell has a complete set of DNA. If you take a shot of gin and kill a bunch of epithelial cells in your esophagus, have you committed some sort of crime?

If you mean a cell that has the potential to become a human but also has a complete set of DNA, that seems an arbitrary combination to make. Do you support bans on stem cell research? A Japanese team has been able to demonstrate that they can transform a human skin cell into a human embryonic stem cell. As soon as they've made that transformation, is the cell then "alive"? Must it morally be implanted in a fertile woman so that it can be carried to its full human potential?

Yeah but why? The heart is just an organ that pumps blood to distribute resources such as oxygen and ATP and remove waste such as carbon dioxide. It doesn't allow the embryo to feel or suffer, that would be more as the brain develops in complexity. Why should a heartbeat mark the point at which moral consideration begins?

damn it's so sexy how dumb and inbred she looks

not even joking I want to pound the shit out of her in that field

Stop being an idiot. I don't like abortion either. I'm just trying to get you to understand that feeling that abortion is abhorrent is more important than any semantic trickery or "objective" claim of right or wrong.

Thanks for the laugh. I really needed it today.

> Inbred
How does she look inbred? Or even dumb for that matter?

I came into this thread expecting more aryan women in wheat fields

the shape of her face
the look in her eyes
her expression a little bit
the fact that she's dressed as a colonial era farmgirl

> Slavs
> Hohols even
> Aryans

because the heart is biological center of all complex life. so when u have functioning heart u have biological being. It is not widely known that the heart cells are the first ones that develop, it's actually amazing to look at how the entire body sprouts around heart. It's amazing to look at.

>heart is biological center of all complex life
ho boy

Moral consideration is 100% relative.

Relative is not the same as arbitrary. If moral consideration is 100% relative, then that is all the more reason one should not be arbitrary because it is more difficult to persuade everyone to agree on an ethical standard if it is seen as arbitrary.

>It is not widely known that the heart cells are the first ones that develop

That's simply false. There are multiple lines of differentiated germ cells that are in the process of developing different organs simultaneously. Cells begin to differentiate into these lines within the first few hours of fertilization. Where did you read that heart cells develop first?

fuck off moral relativist

Thanks for quality discussion, please do go on.

from the first division of cells, those first cells become part of the heart, every other organ is distributed around that first cluster.

It is relative, in arguments around abortion. everyone is spamming different merits. "Is it life?" (without anyone even being able to define life). "Is it a person?" (without anyone even being able to pinpoint to what does define personhood), and so on and on

>Hi pol. When does life start? When egg is fertilized by sperm? Abortion discussion please.
Honestly? It starts on your body and that of your mate before fecundation even begins.

By definition, for fertilization to occur both the egg and sperm needs to be alive and working as intended for the process to occur.

The moment fertilization occurs a new individual has been created.

Morning after pills are therefore murder.

The fact is that the question that needs to be answered is not "at what moment does life start", the question we need to be asking is:"At what point is it no longer culturally acceptable to commit infanticide?"

swedistan with the bants PUT ME IN THE SCREENCAP

Well, he's not wrong

If you deny the validity of ethics, why should I believe you?

>Hi pol. When does life start? When egg is fertilized by sperm? Abortion discussion please.

Life never starts. We are just chemical reactions with no free will of our own. We eat, breath, shit, get horny.

Only real almost-lifeforms are psychopaths.

We'll only achieve true Life status when we develop Mind Upload and get free of our disgusting primitive physical bodies enslaved by hormones.

What about the father? You kill my son I kill your family.

point's him to

You mean because the heart is derived from the mesoderm? The mesoderm gives rise to numerous other important tissues including your blood vessels, your kidney, your adrenals, your muscles, your blood cells, your bones, etc. And you pick the heart as primary because what, it's centrally located? It's an organ whose purpose is to pump blood to the disparate extremities of the body. It just makes sense that it would be relatively centrally located and that consequently, it would have a relatively central location during embryonic development. That doesn't make it special. If it's just about the central location, then why isn't the pre-gastrulation mesoderm itself not an indication of life. Why do you have to wait for the heart to beat? It's thoroughly arbitrary.

A far more sensible delineation would be based on neurological development, to the point where the embryo can feel pain in a subjective manner and suffer. Or perhaps at the level of neurological development at which consciousness may arise. Of course, the problem with this is that there's not really a hard line here either, just a flatter gradient.

Now I am not going edge lord or anything but a thing that needs to be discussed is that the idea of the sanctity of human life is already individually arbitrary. The very idea that children need special protection is kinda bipolar to the fact that up until birth they are not considered people with rights by many of the same people who go crazy over protecting kids. I guess one could argue they don't have a consciousness but then we already treat conscious humans differently on a case by case basis right? After all many people seem to suddenly not care if someone lives or dies if they've done something morally reprehensible at best if not actively wish or seek their death. I mean how fucked up can it be that up until their birth its perfectly fine to end them, but if someone kills the baby a day later its murder?

At the very least pro-lifers are morally consistent. Considering the fetus a protected life all the way thought childhood at least makes sense.

Life started about 3.8 billion years ago, and it has continued in an unening chain till the current day. The real question is, that organism that is growing in the mothers womb, does it have value and require protection like a human being? If so, at what point is the line drawn in its development.
The question is not about life. We destroy life all the time with not a care in the world.

>When does life start?

Who cares.
If when you choose to raise a new human into a thinking person.

Babies don't think, they exists solely because you want them to as a parent.

>sexy dumb
>hotard
Fuck off, Alefantis, you paedo cunt. The noose is approaching...

more pale titties in fields please

okay without going into details into subject im not even educated enough. Let us ask this question; When does the life end?

OHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

...

>Babies don't think
You are either a stupid child, or mentally ill. Money's on the former. I was almost as stupid myself, in my teens, but now as a father I know this juvenile attitude for what it is.

A human being begins when the genes of the parents combine in the new unique individual recipe. Obviously, aborting a clump of cells isn't SO bad, but anything with a proper set of limbs and face is a baby, rendering abortion a far more serious matter. When the baby actually starts moving, killing the poor little bastard is murder pure and simple. In some cases, it might be justified, but it's a very serious matter.

top kek

Orchards are the patrician's choice.

Technically, as a physician, life ends when I say it does. Most people view death as when your heart stops beating and your monitor flatlines and makes that beeping noise, but sometimes when I perform CPR, circulation resumes and the person remains alive. Whether or not you believe that they died and came back to life, or you believe that death implies irreversibility, so they can't have truly been "dead" matters less. More relevant to our discussion is brain death, which is when someone has no detectable brain stem function, but through the support of advanced life support, continues to breathe and have a heartbeat. As a result, their tissues are perfused and they remain warm and pink, but in reality, they are well and truly dead. And dead in the irreversible sense. The fact that they appear "alive" is an illusion made possible by advanced medical technology.

I...I'm not ready...

egg is alive, sperm is alive.
there is no moment they are not alive.

Why the fuck would it matter when life starts.

Semen demon

Snap

>for every one black baby born one is aborted
>people want to get rid of abortion

>1223 abortions per 1000 live births
I am retarded can someone explain how this works?

since you are knowledgeable (i was not imposing my views as educated btw), I wanna ask you. If u look at the body as an energy system what role does heart have in such "machine"?

edgy

nevermind I have it in my brain now

because it's about FEELINGS

that doesn't make it right to murder babies period.