Can a Leftist argument be made against importing migrants?

In Europe and in the United States, foreign national labor is obviously compelling to the upper classes. Cheap, workers won't complain for fear of being deported. Can we spread perhaps a leftists message that these systems, Arabs and Africans being imported to Europe (even if voluntary) and Central Americans and Mexicans to the United States is a system of exploitation? Nobody ever questions how these workers are being treated or seeks to improve conditions in their countries of origin, rather the focus is simply on letting in as many as possible, without regard to the welfare of the new workers. Perhaps leftypol and natsocpol could achieve common ground with regards to this issue?

washingtonpost.com/world/europe/the-latest-norwegian-ship-rescues-503-refugees-from-med-sea/2017/03/05/7625383e-01c2-11e7-9d14-9724d48f5666_story.html

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youtube.com/watch?v=LPjzfGChGlE
youtube.com/watch?v=LPjzfGChGlE#t=212
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You're exposing them to white oppression

I'm bumping.

this interests me for subversive purposes.

The left is fundamentally a collectivist (socialist / communist) position. There is currently no space remaining on the left for individualists.

There might be a cultural marxist angle to be had.
Collectivists have a severe problem with independence, migrants that attempt to come to the US and refuse to assimilate and become american.

it wouldnt be a straightforward way to argue. But you could do it with some metaphors and meme it.

really, I think the core issue is probably that all of these countries are countries where islam is involved in a civil war.

all of the secular leaders in the middle east and north aftrica are dead and gone.

The civil wars are what is causing the refugees. The core issue is that we are funding terrorism and regime change for better or worse.

Getting lefty/pol/ to see this requires a redpill not a simple policy agreement.

It floods the working class with competition keeping their wages low, and the rich richer.

Taking the working class of another country because your own is shrinking due to societal negligence is exploitation. There you go.

>Collectivists have a severe problem with independence, migrants that attempt to come to the US and refuse to assimilate and become american.
they're infinitely OK with non-whites not assimilating, they would rather themselves assimilate in to the new invader culture

yes, this idea that we're enabling war and terror by taking these refugees and welfare kangz is a good angle to start from.

Those poor males, aged 20-29

frame it in the context of brain drain.

"it isnt fair for us to make those countries less diverse, they need those people"

if you add national in front of socialism, you could make a strong argument against importing immigrants

>they're infinitely OK with non-whites not assimilating,
if you took a fundamentalist position, and pushed it it could be effective, but its not the natural argument for the left, granted.

>"it isnt fair for us to make those countries less diverse, they need those people"
Do you think the discoveries of immigrants Marie Curie and Nikola Tesla helped the people in their respective home countries? I think so.

>helped the people in their respective home countries? I think so.
a disproportionately small amount compared to how much they helped america.

this is actually a very good angle.
I actually hear this quite a bit.
I remember having a discussion with a best korea poster about this. He was very accusatory about how america steals smart people.

>a disproportionately small amount compared to how much they helped america.
>other people's success hurts me

I dont think you read what this thread is about.
these arnt the droids youre looking for

>I dont think you read what this thread is about.
>these arnt the droids youre looking for
Well my point still stands as a rebuttal to a "leftist" who would say what you said.

Yes, just call the migrant crisis for what it is: competitive deflation of salaries.

does that mean you are pro migrant?

I'm surprised the left even supports third world immigration, not only does it exist primarily to perpetuate the fiat dollar and keep the elite in power, the people they are importing are almost always ultra conservative and for the most part incompatible with their fantasy land world views.

A band-aid for the collapse of working class birth rates that ignores the root of the problem.

Yes, mass influx of third worlders threatens almost every social initiative they've ever held dear up until now. Nationalized healthcare, protecting the environment, improving education, conserving resources, lessening pollution, all of it threatened and undone by larger and larger populations.

Absolutely we need to stop regime change in MENA but I think electing Trump mostly accomplished that piece of it. He ran on an isolationist platform and I appreciate that he talks tough to other countries without necessarily imposing on them in any real way, just words.

The piece of this that will be harder is to suggest an illegal route for immigrants needs to be shut down via border protections so we can account for the welfare of those already here, which we have trouble doing, and help Mexico to aid conditions in its own country. I think a socialist argument can be made that unfettered capitalism is not a good thing when it results in an influx of people who exist to be treated poorly and do mostly manual labour for the wealthy with of course a few examples of those who have aspired to the bourgeoisie trotted out on social media and by the mainstream media as somehow examplar of the living conditions for most migrants.

Well yes, that is a great point that I think needs to be spread. I think civic nationalism is a great tool here for intro-ing people on how you can only provide governmental benefits to a sink that isn't overflowing with water, and certainly a marxist case can be made for it. I am not too familiar with Strasserism but perhaps that line of thinking falls in line with what I am looking to send forth as a larger message.

The middle class is shrinking but do you have any data that the working class is decreasing? Perhaps of native European descent Americans and especially African Americans could prove powerful here, but the former group is troubled in that calls for advocacy are regarded as taboo. Still, if you could somehow show the working class of African Americans is being decimated by importation I think that would be a valuable tool.

Well they don't care about assimilation since they only use these people for labour. Do you really care if the person cleaning your house speaks much English?

I feel like that has already been done, but to little avail because it is hard to get leftists thinking about genuine global solutions that don't just amount to throwing money via charity or aid at a particular problem.

I think a better way to frame it is in terms of U.S. aid to rebuild Mexican infrastructure so they have a net of jobs for their own people (and of course this argument can be reframed for MENA and Central America).

Well but you have to be a bit subtle about it. I think suggesting the limitations of government to provide for people who are forming a rapid influx is easier than to make a case for deportations or restrictions of civil liberties for those groups.

I think the left has now become an uneasy coalition of religious, sexual, and racial minorities primarily led by wealthy Jews and to a lesser extent by wealthy individuals of those minority groups (Mexicans, Blacks, Muslims, gays) and the minority groups are concerned more with their civil liberties and welfare handouts than with long term migration's potential economic issues for them since the right, they feel, is no friend for them and would take away those things instantly and STILL keep importing people in. Lettings leftists know that there are anti-internationalist conservative who are socially rather moderate (like Trump) will be an important model for the future success of the conservative movement. In reality the left is now the party of wealthy Jews and their accouterments and the right is run by the traditional old guard WASPS and is seen as protecting those interests only. I think pivoting to say you will protect the interests of those here, as long as they support you not importing more new people is important. There may have to be some concessions made for keeping welfare and civil liberties intact, even as a conservative, but rather focusing on borders. It is narrow, but it has come to this.

bump

Read Adios America by Anne Coulter

It drives down worker wages and only helps the elites. That used to be a leftist position, but I dunno if any of them can even pretend to give a shit about working class people anymore.

>You're exposing them to white oppression
This is hilarious. I wonder what a leftist would do if you said that to them.

This one makes a couple of good points. Most particularly that immigration and migration are taking the best talent out of the nations that need that native talent to make their nations stable.

youtube.com/watch?v=LPjzfGChGlE

Conservatives really need to get some charismatic younger people on board. Everything is easier to take when a cute young person like Milo or Lauren Southern is telling you. Pity they aren't the most educated but they do have presence.

You make the mistake of assuming that leftists actually care about anything other than destroying the white race. They would be willing to sacrificie 99% of nonwhites, if that were the only way to kill 100% of the white race.

extracts the quality that could possibly alleviate the shittyness of their shitholes

Without Whites their breadline would collapse and I'm sure at least some are aware of that.

Fpbp

This. Mexico is robbed of the labor it needs to grow as the USA is robbed of its currency and jobs.

Immigration only helps kulaks

You're under the assumption that leftists actually care about the well-being of these people.
They don't. They know full well that most of them are rapists and murderers with no intention of ever working. They know that they offer no value to their host country. And that's precisely why they advocate for their importation. Their ultimate goal is to destroy Western civilization. They're merely masking their intentions behind the facade of humanitarianism. They believe that after the West falls they'll be able to rebuild communism out of the ashes.

The core issue is that at the moment they are comming to Europe as refugees. It's the only way they can sell it to the public and make people keep paying the tax/voting for people that support it. In reality not many are true refugees and many are males.

Africa is set to explode in population. This is a never ending supply. Look at your picture. These are to the white man a less obvious version of what a monkey scracthing it's ass is to a homo sapiens. An embarrassing reminder of the past that we have surpassed. Africa has the potential to drag down the rest of the world and delay our development for thousands of years, but only if we allow it.
We would still be sitting in africa fighting with a rock over a rotten carcass if the ideas of the left had their way with welfare and equality. In just the same way, in thousands of years we will likely either have colonated planets or at least achieved true harmoney with earths enviroment if we can allow for economic liberty and natural selection in this day and age. On the other hand following leftist ideas we will be fighting over what bits and pieces is left of the earth as we did not develop in time, but at least some kids back in time didn't starve in africa because their parents were too stupid to understand so they can go on to make the same mistakes. Harmony with the planet won't happen with the billions of people that africa alone will make if fed.

I don't think they want it to fall I just think they want cheap servants.

Importing nigge- blacks, just to work for us? I think that's been tried once already, and was called "the slave trade".

Well in this case they are coming voluntarily to be exploited.

Hahaha.

I fucking love it, I really do. I've been active in various leftist organisations from the 90s onwards til I fully dropped that and focused on career instead.

We've been warning you. All across Europe, NGOs have been talking about the 'Fortress Europe', speculating about various scenarios when the shit's finally hitting the fan.

The typical response from the right was to ignore the issue or just go 'blablabla .. we'll never have to deal with these magnitudes of migration, our borders are secure .. blahblahblah'


HAHAHAHAHA.
I hope some Arab fucks ever right-winger in the ass. I don't even care anymore. I'm wealthy enough that this shit doesn't bother me.

This is the typical leftist attitude. Fuck you, I've got mine, be it welfare or control of assets through manipulation of human trafficking.

Easy. Where are all of the smart Africans, the right side of the bell curve? In the west. Your doctor from india, Should be helping indians. Say stuff like there is more Nigerian doctors outside Nigeria than inside. You can frame repriations(sending them back) as a scheme to improve there homelands.Uncontollreld immigration creates tension wich creates race wars wich is good for no one. Other lines you could take especially towards Marxists is that immigrants are brought in so they have more proles too exploit.

>I'm wealthy enough that this shit doesn't bother me.
Civil war won't bother you? Alrighty then. I hope that the inevitable Yugoslavia-style ethnic cleansing, you traitors included, is delayed a bit so that you can start a family first.

Sorry, mate. No one gave a shit when we pointed out the inevitable. Now take it up the ass like a champ and smile.

Don't expect me to feel any pity.

I think they would double down and say that people immigrating here are facing war or corruption or something awful back in their home and why should we force them to live in poor conditions.

>In the west. Your doctor from india, Should be helping indians. Say stuff like there is more Nigerian doctors outside Nigeria than inside.
see:
Their immigrating to the US can give them better opportunities to help their homelands than if they were to not immigrate.

So basically everyone should burn at the altar for the sins of conservative globalists?

your never gonna win a argument without trying. Also you average leftist isn't a extreme tumblrista there just someone with a sense of empathy.
>facing war or corruption
tell them the flight of smart people is one of the things that cuased the wars hurting there homelands
Say its easier to help them within there own culture than a different.

The "Diversity of Nations" arguments stormfags use would work better if you used examples of European AND AFRICAN cultures getting blended into a "boring" world culture.

A doctor isn't really comparable to a realitvly rare inventor. Doctors only help people around there vinicty.

>conservative globalists
You make it sound like everyone else was nodding in the meantime and in agreement with our research went on to protest the actions of the various governments.

Nope. Noone cared until now.

So if you think I should hang as a traitor, it's even fairer to say you all deserve to be sodomised for not giving a shit when it mattered. Maybe next time, don't wait to get all uppity about Syrians, but rather step in when your administrations sell weapons to the Saudis for several billion.

>No one gave a shit when we pointed out the inevitable.
It'd be helpful if you explained how you traitors "explained the inevitable", when "the inevitable" is you leftist fucks making unlimited immigration possible. Fortress europe meant that it was hard for poor dindus to get into europe, not because it was unfair but because they had no actual reason to get here - leftists like you opposed this, and wanted the massive unhindered immigration.

Now you've succeeded with part of your leftist goal to destroy western civiliziation, but are apparently horrified when a response is starting to form to the results of your cancerous ideology. If we can't deport them peacefully, ethnic wars will ensue. In those wars, well documented official traitors such as yourself will be hunted down and killed. I'd say that I would delight in your death, but unfortunately the nature and scale of this future civil war will be such that you will simply be taken out back and shot through the head with the rest of the nearby traitors, for mass-identification and documentation of the corpses as part of the larger cleanup effort.

There were a ton of people protesting globalism before to the point that it spread from a conservative viewpoint to a liberal one to be immune from attack. All you have done is accelerated that shift.

>Fortress europe meant that it was hard for poor dindus to get into europe

You might wanna read that up, as well as read between the lines, if you can find the time when you're not assembling furniture made of balsa wood.

>is you leftist fucks making unlimited immigration possible

Ah how easy the world can be if you merely believe in what you choose to be the simplest configuration is in your head.

Again, not my problem anymore. Enjoy your Somalis.

>A doctor isn't really comparable to a realitvly rare inventor. Doctors only help people around there vinicty.
It doesn't have to apply only to inventions and discoveries. A Nigerian doctor can help Americans, and those Americans can, in turn, become more productive and able to manufacture more things that can help people in Nigeria to a greater extent than if the doctor were to stay in Nigeria. I'm not saying this necessarily happens all the time, but it can.

Yes
> taking in x refugees only helps x people
> because we are all countries with a high cost of living, helping x refugees here means we could probably help 8 times as many by investing that same money in development of their home countries
> countries that take in migrants usually have quotas, which encourages them to cherry-pick the best and brightest. At the same time, these are the people that are necessary to create a positive change in their home country.
> every year, more people are born in 3rd world countries than migrate away from them. In other words, migration doesn't fix anything, it just postpones it
If you really want to help, build schools, hospitals, invest in sanitation and agriculture. Help them THERE

>war is the reason for the refugee crisis

There have been hundreds of regional and civil wars in the last 50 years. Where were the migrants from those wars? Is it possible that the current migrant "crisis" is a wholly fabricated phenomenon orchestrated by those hell-bent on ruining the West?

your really your own enemy. Your just going to deep into a argument a normie wont think off. Half the population voted for Hillary. Half the population aren't sjws obsessed with critical theroy

>those hell-bent on ruining the West?
i.e. the jew.

Be careful, Hans. You're getting close to hate speech.

About a quarter, half don't vote.

>Leftist parasite can't explain his own position, nor refute facts of reality
All is well in the land of delusion, I see.

>not my problem
Ahaha. You believe you can insulate yourself from the rage of the common man simply because you have a bit of money? You better have the protection the size of a small military garrison, or mark my words you will pay.

If you tell him that the current immigration is a direct result of leftist traitors opening the gates as wide as they could, he'll just respond with "lol we warned u I'm rich", even though leftists never "warned". Their goal all along, openly stated, was to tear down "fortress europe" in order to open up for unlimited immigration, yet he will deny this simple fact, even though it was a central point repeated at every leftist rally for the last few decades.

about quarter voted trump then. Even a the left quarter of normies are not sjws

>mark my words you will pay
I'm waiting. Have been for a while. This 'day of the rope' sure takes its time..

Make it quick, I ain't the youngest anymore.

503 BBCs for Norweigan women
beautiful

an economic argument discussing the unsustainability of the welfare state in the face of mass migration will not work

it's 2017 and the 'left' is a bloc concerned with identity politics and now lives wholly within the realm of economic fantasy

migration keeps the wages of unskilled work low
this hinders innovation, because migrant workers are cheaper then investing in innovation
>kind of like slavery hindered innovation and therefor got abolished

stopping immigration will bring us faster into a high tech utopia

>Your just going to deep into a argument a normie wont think off
No, I'm not, unless a normie thinks that all nations hate each other and refuse to cooperate at all times.

UN numbers admit that the most efficient and humane way of helping third worlders is in their own countries. For every dollar you spend helping one alien in the West, you could help several back in their own country. This is regarding temporary housing, aid, etc.. which is great for Syrians but not so much for the majority of aliens who come to Europe from non-warzones for a purely economic benefit. Which is the main problem, there is no moral imperative to help the vast majority of these people (especially in our own homes), so no one needs to make a moral argument to justify simply sending them back to whence they came.

tl;dr, fuck off we're full.

Yes.

Mass immigration is inherently anti-working class and exploitative of the new arrivals, as cheap labor to furl the capitalist system, and divide the working class

""""leftists"""" don't care, however, because they're not actually working class and not actually leftist. They're zealots of the status quo, and attack dogs for international corporations and monetary entities.

Solid points.

I think it's exactly this.

Depends on how old you are, it'll need to get bad enough first. Most of the heavy immigration has been halted, but then we'll run into demographical and economical problems as more time passes. With any luck we'll avoid it, if we can simply deport them. You still haven't answered anything, replying only with empty /x/-tier "get on my level kid"-remarks as if anyone give a shit about your supposed wealth (protip: everyone's a millionaire on the internet).

Tell me though: In which scenario of ethnic civil war do you expect people to not take you out back and shoot you, a likely confirmed and documented traitor, or at the worst very strong collaborator, in the head?

This is what happened in any other situation of the same sort. In some cases, whites lost after they were abandoned and cut off (south africa), in others they would've won but got stopped by outside powers (Yugoslavia). At the very best, europe turns into Brazil 2.0 but with violent arabs and shariah instead of niggers/indians, in which case you will need armed security to even go outside of your compound (forget having a farm, people will break in and steal stuff, you will need actual tall concrete walls). More likely, unless deportations happen, they will try to form their own enclaves, and we'll have to start removing the cancer. First gently, but after they start causing some real trouble felt by ordinary people, with actual force.

The difference here will be that it won't be far away somewhere, and people won't be insulated from it. It will be right here, and they will demand (as they already have been, but á la 1933 weimar germany) change. You and the other leftist politicians + the elite and media will still pretend like you didn't cause it on purpose, but we will know. At this point, already, we know, and the internet makes keeping track of you weasels trivial.

The upside to the current situation is that you've managed to bring back european ethnic nationalism. Thank you for that.

>Most of the heavy immigration has been halted
source?

>In which scenario of ethnic civil war do you expect people to not take you out back and shoot you

In the scenario where I ally with the winner.

kek

THIS WILL BACKFIRE HARD

DO NOT DO THIS

>The upside to the current situation is that you've managed to bring back european ethnic nationalism. Thank you for that.
Imagine if these fuckers were really double agents? Merkel was a Nazi all along, playing 4D chess.

Exploitation of third worlders for cheap labor.

To an extent, yes. However, many people are in it for the social position it brings them. Essentially they enjoy having others think that they are a good person. Helps to bolster their superiority complex as they can look at others and say how awful they are for not thinking a certain way.

*blocks your path*

Fucking over the economy, importing cheap labor and lessening the conditions of the working class was never inherently a left wing position.

Its as simple as that.

The argument against open borders is purely economical, and the left, by definition is not necessarily unpatriotic (I consider myself a nationalistic, patriotic, economically rational lefty).

SOCIALISM isn't even necessarily pro immigration, as social benefits can only be distributed as long as the nation has the resources to do so, and they are, by definition finite.

Only INTERNATIONAL socialism argues for a 'greater global proletariat', and though I am NOT a supporter of their position, its not entirely false, merely ultimately potentially despotic.
INTERNATIONAL socialism needs to argue for the free mobility of labor (to undermine capitalism, to a degree, and nationalism to a greater degree) in the name of its international proletariat.

I'm not an international socialist, but devils advocate, they are theoretically an anti-war movement, on the argument that it is never in the interests of the proles to fight to defend the privileges exclusive to the elites.
If the proles on both sides of the border could agree on that, the war effort would be undermined.

She wouldn't be the one playing. She would be a sacrificial pawn.

Aren't democrats meant to be pro free-trade? From a pragmatic standpoint, immigrants are a cheap source of labor.

You can't make a leftist argument against refugees, they do so from a purely moral standpoint.

I can't speak for other nations, but after the ID checks and 2015, it really bottomed out from 160k applicants to just a few (I forgot the number).

See, the winner here is either Abdullah Ahmed the Fifth, who will require you to mutilate your penis, mutilate your wife/children and convert to Islam (stop drinking alcohol, no pork, pray all day 'erry day), or get executed.

OR

The ethnic nationalists, having learned from previous events that showing any sort of mercy will only make the problem re-manifest itself later as the cancer grows back to full strength from a single cell, being in the possession of the greatest tool of research and information sharing devised by man: the internet, with which they will know about you. Somewhere, someone has evidence of what you did, if it's not already public information easily searchable in records (which it will be, unless you're meticulous enough to remove even paper traces). Maybe you can offer them money, maybe what you did wasn't bad enough to warrant summary execution, but in either case you will never be in good standing again as no amount of coat-turning will undo the fact that you are a traitor to your own people, and this will be known to anyone who cares to find out.

For most of these individuals, I doubt that. These are people who believe they can have their cake, and eat it too, if you can imagine that there are people naive enough to believe the socialist lie of "everything to everyone out of nothing". Some of them are quite literally jewish agents, especially in germany and the rest of what you could consider the zionist occupied territories.

Sure. Illegals take all the gibs so your gibs are less. You can do that with most economy related right wing arguments by substituting 'gibs' in place of 'jobs'.

LOOK NO FURTHER

“Immigration can never be an effective or significant way to deal with the suffering people of the world. They have to be helped where they live.”

youtube.com/watch?v=LPjzfGChGlE#t=212

Open borders inevitably makes any left-wing economic policies impossible. Any welfare state will collapse if anyone can take part of it. Unlimited supply of workers shifts all power from labor to capital. Immigration is set to destroy everything the leftists value, they've simply been tricked into suppoting it because it sounds "good" and like something they should support if you don't think too much about it.

Replacing words like that is rather flawed logic. There is a different context behind both words which doesn't transfer over when substituting one for the other. You're applying a context of one word to that of a different as if they are in the exact same context. Very flawed logic but I would expect nothing less from a leaf.

I like you.

They seem to be under the impression that if you take more from the rich then it will be sustainable. You tax them more because they're assholes or something and then they prove that they're assholes when they say they don't want to be taxed more. The you can post some shit on your social media of choice about how rich people are awful and immoral for the social praise of your lefty friends to the disappointment of your parents.