Does anyone have any good red pills on Evolution? Is religion correct or is science on this?

Does anyone have any good red pills on Evolution? Is religion correct or is science on this?

My opinion is it might be a mix of both but dunno.

Other urls found in this thread:

evolutionatbyu.com/Other/20130607Sanford,-Genetic-Entropy.pdf
youtube.com/watch?v=aEsotWAAUFw
youtube.com/watch?v=gZpsVSVRsZk
twitter.com/NSFWRedditGif

evolutionatbyu.com/Other/20130607Sanford,-Genetic-Entropy.pdf

gimmie a quick rundown on what this is? Taking forever to load.

we are bacteria that was allowed to grow for billions of years. Now we have the internet

Evolution is genetically impossible. Dr Sanford's thesis is basically that information can only be deleted as mutations occur, complexity can't be added, thus the human genome is actually degenerating from a higher state rather than evolving from a lower state. It's an interesting read, he uses analogies and simple language for people who don't have PhDs

Thank you for link then. I actually have never heard of this before. What did you think about evolution before reading this?

Sounds deep.

Self bump for more opinions out there.

Many devout Christians accept evolution. There is no conflict between belief in God and science. In fact I feel pretty sure science will one day confirm the existence of God.

Why do you believe that?

I was sceptical of evolution and it made me more sceptical. I'm still on the fence technically but I'm leaning towards creationism. To be honest I've only read some of it but I've watched a few of his lectures on Youtube and since then I haven't thought about evolution the same way, I highly recommend looking him up

Think about this. God Pops up the universe creating everything essential to life. Life evolves according to the very laws god created. Thus creationists BTFO by this and the huge amount of proofs that support evolution and none that supports creationism unless a 4000yo book written by some random sandnigger.

Because I know God is real, and many highly intelligent people today and throughout history have come to the same conclusion. It's an inherent truth of the universe and one way or another science will get there, sooner or later.

This. The theory of evolution is the official theory of the Catholic Church since the 50s i guess.

Exactly, God is what has led to everything. God is the divine force for life and love and order in the universe. Without God the universe either wouldn't exist or would be in a state of pure chaos.

So one could say science works because of god? I am surprised to know religious people still believe in science. It has been pushed in my head for years they didn't at all.

Quantum physics denotes that evolution is a lie.

the first drink from the glass of Science makes you an athiest, but god is waiting for you at the bottom.

I personally think "creationists" and a lot of these people with fundamentalist views have not read the bible or do not understand it. Or even at the extreme are just a bit weird and being propped up by the media to push people away from actually reading he bible. Read Genesis and you will see the story of the creation of the universe and the evolution of man and language in nature. There is only conflict with science if you are trying to create conflict.

Did you come up with that on the spot? Sounded so good.

Dude, most of the worlds best scientists believe in God. Einstein frequently talked about God.

Call me paranoid but I do believe there are people who are purposefully trying to push people away from God. People overcome with fear and hatred. Call them demons if you like.

It's a famous quote

nope, it's the "father" of Quantum Physics.

Hmmm I would more so say liberals are pushing it so they can justify themselves doing shitty things. My only question I have had in faith is god seems to help people but not colored nations like Africa. I always wondered why as a kid.

Well I learned something interesting today.

In what way does quantum physics "denote" that evolution is a lie? Please tell me you aren't going to shit out a post about increasing complexity in systems

Evolution can be and has been demonstrated, tested and proven and has absolutely nothing to do with religion.

it might be a mix of both? do tell where religion comes in, cant wait.

God helps people only in so far as they want to be helped.

God isn't a person with an agenda, whatever God is, it's more of a guiding light. People can do whatever the hell they want but the guiding light will always be there.

Have you ever had the feeling of "revelation" when you learn the truth about something or learn something new about the world or yourself. God is the truth. It's as simple as that. A lie is powerful until it is shown the light. Show a lie the truth and it withers away and dies.

It comes in when religious authority feels threatened by science and scientific method.

That is a pretty good way to put it.

That's not what your (Protestant) church teaches. Protestants claim that God dispenses salvation how he sees fit.
Your thinking is more in line with Orthodox Christianity.

The problem with this is people can never seem to detach the Bible from god. Yes the book is the main guiding factor but it's not like god would have talked about the process of genetics to some people who fuck and kill each other in the desert.

God imparted the necessary information and tailored it to his audience.

Religions in cultures all over the world is but evidence of being conquered and claimed by Aliens.

We've already lost to technologically superior lifeform, but soon we can remove Xeno.

I have no idea what my church teaches. I believe in God and Jesus and study all religious texts. Would agree with you my beliefs are probably more orthodox.

This.

The bible is divinely inspired. It only makes sense so far as people 2000 years ago could understand it, because they wrote it. God is within not without.

You seem to know a lot. How would you recommend someone trying to have faith and believe in god again go about it?

Okay then. Are you familiar with Catharism and Bogumilism? What's your opinion on them?

Creationists should be purged.

I would say start looking at people and yourself and learn about how people function in the world. Try to truly understand the concept of good and evil. The binary between chaos and control. Understand why things have meaning and why people aspire to truth.

Ask yourself questions and look for the answers within yourself. Accept that the universe is beyond your comprehension and beyond your control. The only thing in life we can ever truly know is ourselves.

...

The only question on evolution that I've heard that has assblasted so many pro evolution IFLScience supporters is

If Dinosaurs existed for thousands of years, how come the bones from let's say Dinosaur A that existed for 100,000 years be nearly identical 100,000 years later without any changes at all? Wouldn't that Dinosaur have evolved during 100,000 years or at least shown signs of evolving? If Dinosaur B evolved from Dinosaur A, shouldn't there be some telltale signs of evolution instead of bones of Dinosaur B just magically appearing out of the blue during that time period, as opposed to evolving over time?

go look up strawman fallacy, thats not even close to what atheism is.

What if we say God did the Big Bang 14 billion years ago

So how do people answer that then?

Thank you that is some good advice.

There is no meaning beyond what we create for ourselves, yes.

Science is correct.

then the question is "where did god come from?"
its moving the goal post, you havent really answered the question.

I'm afraid I don't know about those religions, I'm not a scholar of religion by any means. I will look up these schools though. Do you have anything to say about them?

this is the most retarded thing I have ever read
thanks alot

The question you should be asking is, is evolution science?

I think he already knows it is science. Thats a stupid question.

>I am surprised to know religious people still believe in science

They invented it.
Pic related, It's Georges Lemaître, a Belgian priest. He proposed the theory of the expansion of the universe, widely misattributed to Edwin Hubble

Science and religion are two different things. Religion is meant to provide an answer to why we are here, what our purpose is and how to deal with the fact that we are self-aware.
Science will never solve that for you because that is not it's purpose.

Would you say a hateful and self-isolating person lives a life of equal "meaning" to somebody who lives a life full of love and appreciation? What is meaningful and why?

No, evolution is a process.
Evolutionary biology is a science.

Infinity can't be explained intellectually, so as long as you're thinking in terms of beginnings and endings, you can never explain existence. There's always room for another beginning.

I don't get the question. Evolution happens spontaneously. Bacteria have remained largely the same for millions of years. Evolution is something that CAN happen to all species, but it does not mean is WILL. Besides, the phenotype of the mutation could be in some other organ or bodily structure, not neccessarily the bones.

The way the universe works and how things came to be is completely incomprehensible. The only thing we know for sure is that we are here and our existence is meaningful. Attempting to understand it is fine, thinking we have the definite answers is vainity.

I repeat. The only thing we know is that we are here and that a life can be lived well and with meaning. Whatever meaning it is that we give it. A life lived in love is a life generally considered a life better lived. Why? Because we function better as individuals and as a society? Why? Because evolution dictates that working together is better. Why? Because the peace and order trump chaos and evil. Why? Because it is clear the entire universe, despite being in a state of constant decay, aspires to order. That is life. That is God.

He more is famous because of the Big Bang theory

>He is more famous
Fixed

by that vague definition everyone believes in god

>My life and existence is totally meaningless and full of suffering and decay. I try not to remember this fact too much by losing myself in senseless hedonism.

I've tried that, doesn't work for me.

thats all fine and dandy, i just dont see why you have to insert a word like "god" in there, it carries immense baggage and in your text could have been left out completely.

The science is settled on evolution such that we understand the development of germs and their cure based on it. Only flat Earth caliber trolls do not understand natural selection

there is something here when there doesn't have to be something here. The universe could very easily be pure random energy in complete chaos. For some reason physics works and things *are*. Whatever it is that dictates that there can be something here is God.

Maybe God is the universe itself, who knows. My theory is that there are infinite universes and each has their own divine "frequency". That frequency dictates both how things move and the speed that things are able to move. Our divine frequency has created the life and the universe. Our divine frequency is the guide that aspires to order in something that could very easily be complete chaos.

Holographic universe combined with sacred geometry shows evolution is indeed a natural process but intelligent design is also started said process.

youtube.com/watch?v=aEsotWAAUFw

youtube.com/watch?v=gZpsVSVRsZk

if the universe is god why not just say universe? God can be undestood as Allah, Yahweh, Zeus, Odyn and a shitload of other godsm just drop the word, its unnecessary.

I believe that God is within us all, yes. It's just down to whether we want to live a life in harmony with the universe and God or not.

God is infinitely eternal, uncreated, undying. Whether you choose to call it God or not is up to each person. It stands to reason that infinity would express itself in an infinite number of ways.

You must have talked to some pretty dumb people if that has never been answered.
Evolution is the keeping of new and successful mutations, for example, why there are variants of mammals with white fur found in areas that get a lot of snow.
It's not like one day every single new baby for an entire species becomes a completely different one.
Species that have had no need for keeping new mutations have remained mostly unchanged for millions of years. The Ceolocanth for example is much the same as it was when the dinosaurs roamed the earth.
And specifically on dinosaurs; there are many species we'll never know about because fossilisation happens under very specific circumstances, so what we see today of their remains is only the tiniest fraction of what existed.

For me God is not the universe. God is the literal light, truth and order of the universe and that which the human spirit aspires to.

Of course I don't know, God *might* just be the universe. But it seems clear to me there are multiple things at play.

Biggest load of crap I've read in a while.

I like that a lot.

you seem fixed on the word god, you want to put it everywhere and you refuse to let go of it. I dont see why it should be used to explain anything, we know the reason for most things and the ones we dont know we should just say we dont know untill we have a good idea of what is actually happening.

other ingredients for your word salad are divine frequency, literal light, order of the universe and human spirit. You cant just use words you've invented if you want to have a conversation with other people. Explain to me what all these actually mean or wake up and let go of your bias.

Do you follow any organized religion, like Christianity?
Do you believe Jesus is the son of god and all that stuff?

It should be illegal for any woman to be this hot

Since when was redpilling a euphemism for evangelical science denial? No fucking wonder the public at large thinks alt-righters are a god damn joke.

Also I feel like I should point out that even the Vatican has accepted evolution for more than half a century now, and that anti-science, anti-education America evangelicals are the only ones who question or deny it.

I agree, it should be illegal for women to surgically alter their appearance for purely cosmetic reasons.

Humans have always tried to explain what they couldn't understand, for the Mayas, the sun was God, for the Greeks, many gods took the form of natural phenomena, when science advanced and all those thing we're explained there was no need for those religions, so now they're mythology, even if the people at that time believed on it as strongly as we do now.
Modern religions are created under the most irrational instinctive fear humans have, fear of death, we'll never know what's in the afterlife before we actually die, the thought of being alive just to die hurts our brain, so we need a painkiller, then someone tells you that if you behave properly and follow a God you'll go to heaven and won't die, so you fall for it, you adapt your reality to this new view and play pretend with other thousands of people, but ultimately I'd just a self-made lie to be happy and be able to cope.

Appreciate religion for what it is, a useful tool to manipulate the weak willed into doing good for society, if you actually believe in God or some other higher entity enjoy your 2 digits IQ

I don't follow any organised religion. I follow my own heart and my own study. I believe that Jesus was real and he was the son of God in so far as we are all the sons of God. I believe he was divinely inspired but that it is very possible a lot of what he said and did has been mangled along the way.

Of course I understand that gives me the freedom to "decide" what I think is "true" or not, but I don't think that's a big problem. The most important thing is that you constantly scrutinise everything you think you know and know that the truth is unafraid of being scrutinised.

inb4 images of a fedoras

Nah I'd rather be surrounded by Christians than fedora atheists, hating religion is as dumb as believing on it, you're hating on a fundamental part of human development.
I go to church, I like the organization of the Christian society, but I know I'll never be able to believe in something that logic doesn't back up, you gotta understand religion for what it really is, a very useful and powerful tool to ease the minds of the weak-willed

If you think living beings are subject to entropy, you have literally failed to understand what biological life is.

Thats actually sad, how can you make such a simple mistake? and to begin with it

no we don't know "most things". In fact we hardly know anything. We have absolutely no idea what on earth reality is or how anything came to be, why anything is the way it is and why the laws of the universes work the way they do. I apologise for seeming like I have a bias and I will try to explain myself better if I can but you must also let go of your hubris.

The only thing we can know for sure is that we exist and that the universe works around us to the extent that allows us to continue to exist. The second thing we can try to figure out is ourselves and how to live a better life both for ourselves and for others. Beyond that everything else is just speculation. Scientific and rigorous speculation sure, but there's no saying we're not in a VR world or everything is just a dream or some bullshit like that. Comprehension beyond ourselves is impossible.

Everything in the universe is subject to entropy, it's the reason our body decays

You think the only reason people act "properly" is because of organised religion? That's making me a bit worried about people who think like you.

sounds like we pretty much have the same views then, and I'm an atheist
I would refrain from using the word god, for the same reasons that Finn stated

No, thinking like you do is for the weak willed. Can't you see how strong of a will it takes to believe in God? It's fucking hard! You have to look and you have to want to try really hard. Atheism is for the weak willed. Giving up and saying religion is a tool and is foundless is for the weak willed.

Start asking yourself the truly difficult questions and you will eventually find God.

Evolution actually happens, Darwinism not so much

yes but the entire point of life is to take in energy and expel entropy fuckhead

I will not refrain from using the word God. I believe in a soul and I believe in an afterlife, not claiming to know anything about that afterlife. I believe there is a force that guides the universe and the human spirit toward order and I believe that force is God.

why do you believe in an afterlife?

I agree. It takes a lot of willpower to maintain the cognitive dissonance required to remain willfully ignorant in the face of modern science and technology. The kind of conviction one must have to reject the teachings of Christ in favor of Leviticus and Exodus-- but only parts that agree with your discriminatory biases in regards to modern hot bed political issues-- all while still calling yourself a Christian, it's astounding.

There is a certain truth to what you say.

The believers are mostly happy and functional with their view of a meaningfull universe created by God.
The unbelievers are miserable, depressed and dysfunctional because they know life is just meaningless suffering without God.

But hey, at least they can feel and act smug for looking into the abyss all the time, unlike those weakminded believers.

If you had to take a guess, a shot in the dark, as to why an omniscient God creates murderers and rapists and children with cancer, plagues and famine and wars and diseases, etc., knowing full well that these things will transpire before the humans responsible ever existed due to His omniscience, what do you think His reasoning or plan would be in going through with the creation of these humans; that incorrigible fellow, always being mysterious in mortally-incomprehensible his ways.

I believe there is some part of my conscience being that is beyond the purely physical.

The absolute simplest thing the afterlife could be is that element of me that I call the soul returns to the plain of existence that it came from. I don't think anything constituting memories or knowledge needs to be retained.

My thinking at the moment is just that trying to find peace with the universe will allow you to better make peace with the universe. Maybe the closer I get to that harmony the better things will be.

Nothing I have said contradicts modern science and technology. I have complete trust in modern science and technology, so much trust in fact that I believe science will eventually find God.

Evolution is certainly the best current explanation for all the observations. However, it doesn't quite explain how some structures developed.

For example, they say that a minute change can significantly increase the individual's ability to survive, thus propagating the trait through the species. But these initial steps are negligible and cannot compound unless others with the same mutation happen to breed. Since inbreeding to spread such a trait would be detrimental and unlikely (considering populations without the trait would be higher), the chances of a negligible trait actually being able to further develop are basically nothing.

So, for that reason, I propose that evolution does actually have a "goal". Not so much a conscious effort, but rather the species has only a limited number of directions it may take as a whole from its current point.

For simplicities sake, evolution is rather like a "trait tree", in which the next traits cannot be unlocked without pre-existing ones. A species may already have the next stage ready in their genes but just need the right pressures.

Which would suggest that evolution is actually predictable.

I don't see anything in this belief that requires the need of a christian God.

What if it turns out that God was just some alien being who, with his hyperadvanced technology, created a pocket universe for shits and giggles, and had already grown bored and abandoned us millions of years ago? I feel like this is the most likely outcome of God being real or actually existing.

God is not a human. God isn't a big old hairy man in the sky. God has absolutely no control over what people think or do in the moment.

You need to accept that there are things beyond your comprehension user. You don't know everything. In fact, you don't really know anything at all. Accept it. Make peace with that which cannot be known.