Daily Reminder: True Communism Hasn't Been Tried

I'll just respond preemptively, since I know you're going to throw the same old arguments at me everyone does:

Communism has never been established. It's a classless, stateless, and moneyless society, and something like that has never come about.

Because communism is classless, stateless, and moneyless, the USSR, China, etc. were only communist in name. More accurately, they were state capitalist.

If you're going to use the "human nature" point, please put some reasoning behind it.

No, my labeling of the USSR, Maoist China, North Korea, etc. as non-communist - is not a no true Scotsman fallacy because that fallacy depends on the existence of an objective rule of what the "Scotsman" - in this case communism - is. Given that said definition does exist (as provided by Marx and the hundreds of communist theorists), the fallacy does not apply.

Other urls found in this thread:

youtube.com/watch?v=f-woaDniFQc
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_true_Scotsman
twitter.com/NSFWRedditGif

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>It's a classless, stateless, and moneyless society, and something like that can never come about.

Fixed.

>Communism has never been established
Because it's impossible to establish.

Not an argument, fascists.

>no true scotsman: the thread

literally didnt read more than the title of the thread bc i didnt have to. remember to sage

>tfw we are one genocide and famine away from real communism

>communism is stateless

u wot?

>can't even get off the runway
>numerous attempts over an entire century
>since we never even left the ground, this airplane design is still completely viable and probably superior to the working planes that we have now

heh crapitalists btfo amirite??!

fpbp

It is unless you can tell me how it can exist.

True capitalism hasn't been tried,but that didn't stop it from benefiting mankind as a whole even if this crony capitalism is flawed.Capitalism is a closer reflection to human nature then communism will ever be.
DUDE LETS WRECK THE CURRENT SYSTEM AND RISK IT FOR ONE THAT COULDNT IMPLEMENTED ANYWHERE AND RESORTED TO MILLIONS OF DEAD PEOPLE DUE TO FAMINE

living like a bunch of primitives

>le no true scotsman meme

milions of people already live under famine under the capitalist, liberal world order. besides, its not like there's a bunch of people here who don't mind millions of dead people from certain groups.

if, after all those tries, it was never really done then logically it cannot be done, period. abandon the stupid fantasy and embrace reality.

Not if we become ants

(((their))) next experiment on gentile society.

Except attempts at capitalism benefits at least some people. Attempts at communism benefit nobody except the elite.

Like commies? They don't seem to mind killing each other much.

it's logically impossible to falsify certain aspects of marxism, including marx's own predictions of communism. popper wrote about this

communism is based on the obsolete idea of the nation-state. decentralize and survive

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>youtube.com/watch?v=f-woaDniFQc
>private property abolished
>people work on making a useless piece of steel ingot while parts of the country starve to death

Abolishing money and private property sure looks good.

Maybe people in third world countries shouldn't have so many kids, I dunno

>nobody except the elite.
well, they are some people too.

>>Like commies? They don't seem to mind killing each other much.
capitalists like engaging in power politics against each other. there seems to be a set of double standards don't you think?

Humans aren't ants.

>well, they are some people too.
Attempts at Capitalism benefits the poor and middle class. Attempts at Communism doesn't.

/thread

>Classless, stateless
Oxymoron. That'd explain why Communism hasn't been tried, it's a contradiction in terms.

>It's a classless, stateless, and moneyless society, and something like that has never come about.
Ooooooo sounds like Heaven! Wanna get a quick one-way ticket there, retard?

Most people get out of the red phase when they mature

I guess that means Capitalism has never been tried either.

saged

Poverty has been slashed by 50% of the the last twenty years as a direct result of Capitalism. Almost every instance of mass starvation today is either the result of niggers killing all the white farmers in their countries,outpacing their own food supply, or the legacy of Communist-Capitalist proxy wars from decades ago. The lattermost we may simply declare everyone's fault, but if the former two are going to be resolved at all, it will be by Capitalism. Capitalist countries have a lot of problems but millions of people starving to death isn't one of them.

>>Maybe people in third world countries shouldn't have so many kids, I dunno

it's a surprising fact but it pays off well to have many children in a shithole country. there's very little opportunity, high infant mortality rates, and no social safety nets in those places. all of this creates pressure and incentives to pump out little workers that can take care of the family and hopefully some of them will survive long enough to care for you when you are older, then they get to have their own large family and now you have your own familial security net.

And I feel that time's a wasted go
So where ya going to tomorrow?
And I see that these are lies to come
Would you even care?
And I feel it
And I feel it
Where ya going to tomorrow?
Where ya going with that mask I found?
And I feel, and I feel
When the dogs begin to smell her
Will she smell alone?
And I feel, so much depends on the weather
So is it raining in your bedroom?
And I see, that these are the eyes of disarray
Would you even care?
And I feel it
And she feels it
Where ya going to tomorrow?
Where ya going with that mask I found?
And I feel, and I feel
When the dogs begin to smell her
Will she smell alone?
When the dogs do find her
Got time, time, to wait for tomorrow

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Yeah, it's somehow ok when the commies do it.

>nobody except the elite.
>well, they are some people too.
So you only hate the 1% when they're capitalists? At least try to be consistent, comrade.

If anything your claim that communism has never been tried makes people even less apt to try
You forfeit even the shitty arguments like "well it least it industrialized x nation" or whatever
You're just left with "well there's like 100 million murdered and systematically starved and we haven't even gotten to the communism trust me it'll be all worth it"
kill yourself you dumb faggot

>>Poverty has been slashed by 50% of the the last twenty years as a direct result of Capitalism. Almost every instance of mass starvation today is either the result of niggers killing all the white farmers in their countries,outpacing their own food supply, or the legacy of Communist-Capitalist proxy wars from decades ago. The lattermost we may simply declare everyone's fault, but if the former two are going to be resolved at all, it will be by Capitalism. Capitalist countries have a lot of problems but millions of people starving to death isn't one of them.

There's no doubt that capitalism has lifted the masses out of subsistence living. Marx even conceded that to capitalismt, but solving poverty and constant starvation will soon to start to feel like a low bar, if we ever to solve it. Even so, you'll get a socialist who'll claim that capitalism is wasteful, with the first world having obesity problems while the other countries starve. Though that could also be attributed to a distribution and political problem; its been argued that no famine in recent history was through natural forces. There's more and more to go deeper into.

HAHAHAHAHAHA

This thread again. Of course Marx's theory of communism works. I've read Capital and Manifesto. Seems like a great system and a great idea. Fuck the elites and oppressive capitalists, right?
In fact, if I was a Russian peasant circa 1915 I might just be on the front lines fighting.
But it's not 1915. The long stretch of blood-stained history lies behind us. If Communism is the classless, stateless, and moneyless utopia that it's proponents say it is, then you're going to have to address why whenever it is attempted, it devolves into totalitarianism. and more specifically, how to combat the descent from coming again.

tl;dr: you're selling a loaded gun that has a history of exploding in everyone's hand the minute they try to fire it.
>"But you're not using it right!"
Maybe... but you're not offering instructions.

Education on Communism, you morons.
Most of you advocating for it, are going to be the first to die.

>>Yeah, it's somehow ok when the commies do it.
It's not OK, but then again, OP claims that communism has never existed before.

>Communism has never been established. It's a classless, stateless, and moneyless society, and something like that has never come about.

I would take it that a communist promotes the bringing of this society, but he engages or promotes behavior that enforces hierarchy and elite classes, then he is not a true communist if we go by our understanding of communism described above and a person who would act consistently in its support

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_true_Scotsman
KYS

It is impossible to exist a world without currency, private property and capital with no state trying to do it. USSR and North Korea are how far it goes.
That is why anarcho-capitalism is the only anarchism which makes sense.
Saying that there is no real communist is the same thing as saying that there is no square ball. Communism is what has been done and it is awful.

>then you're going to have to address why whenever it is attempted, it devolves into totalitarianism. and more specifically, how to combat the descent from coming again.

Frankfurt School?

everything is a no true scottman if they tell me my handle of the idea is wrong

This is what I never got with those who successfully tried to shill/redpilled us on the franfurt school, a school that championed a form of critique which is oddly critical of progressives today.

>It's not OK, but then again, OP claims that communism has never existed before.
I guess I overestimated how many layers of irony he was on.

I think that true communism won't work until we have robots doing all of our shit for us until then lets just stick with what works.

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Equality can never happen. People desire the best for themselves and their family and friends and will fuck over anyone else to do so

When we describe the Soviet Union or China as "communist", we don't mean that they've achieved communism, but that they want to achieve communism and are taking steps to achieve it. You have a fundamental misunderstanding of the term.

The USSR, Maoist China, North Korea, etc. were communist because they wanted to achieve a classless, stateless society, not because they lived in a classless, stateless society.

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Daily Reminder: Capitalism Hasn't Been Tried

I'll just respond preemptively, since I know you're going to throw the same old arguments at me everyone does:

Capitalism has never been established. It's a classless, stateless, and liberal society, and something like that has never come about.

Because capitalism is classless, stateless, and liberal, the USA, Great Britain, etc. were only capitalist in name. More accurately, they were mixed economies or socialist.

If you're going to use the "greed is the root of all evil" point, please put some reasoning behind it.

No, my labeling of the USA, Victorian England, South Korea, etc. as non-capitalist - is not a no true Scotsman fallacy because that fallacy depends on the existence of an objective rule of what the "Scotsman" - in this case capitalism - is. Given that said definition does exist (as provided by Rand and the hundreds of capitalist theorists), the fallacy does not apply.

Communism is an outdated ideology that doesn't take automation or human psychology into account.

Communism can only work in practice if every single individual within it can create everything they need to live without the actions of any other individual within the group, such that there is no need for trade to occur.
The closest such human examples were Hunter-Gatherer societies, where most every adult within them could acquire their meals without having to rely on others.
Unfortunately, children, elderly, and injured persons are still vulnerable under these societies, requiring the aid of the rest of the group to survive. This has made for a rather low carrying capacity in the size of the group and a low tolerence in group variety, relative to later societal systems.

Even if you were to somehow remove currency entirely as a concept, If there are people within the society that cannot create everything they want, goods will inevitably be traded, effectively making any product traded a currency, rendering it "Not Actually Communism" under your definitions.

A field of flowers on a hillside is arguably a communistic society, with no state, no need for classes within the members themselves, and no currency needed, all the individual flowers can grow in peace.
Unfortunately, the Genus Homo cannot be made to eat nothing but dirt and be expected to live a long life, let alone a satisfactory one.

>A perfect, infallible version of communism that exists only in my mind has never been tried, and the fact that other attempts at it have always ended in famine and totalitarian rule means nothing.