Why are Russian planes such shit?

Why are Russian planes such shit?

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en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Rimon_20
youtube.com/watch?v=JA1mZF3FQhc
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>American planes are meant to be used by American pilots and their NATO allies

>Russian planes are meant to be used by soviet pilots and shitty 3rd world niggers

The entire purpose of the soviet fleet was to overwhelm in numbers, not quality and precision

because Russians actually use theirs in conflicts, not for shooting sand nigger blimps.

in short, they fight actually well matched enemies, whereas you want me to be impressed that you can kill 200 kids in one shot.


>Vietnam, why are american infantry so shit?

Lockheed having no competition and not being regulated charges upwards of 80 million for any of their new units. The most expensive Russian units currently costs no more than 25 million.

Lockheed planes aren't actually that much better, because that simply isn't the point of them, the point is running a business and selling expensive shit.

Lockheed (and boeing) sells planes to Japan, Japan buys them, why does Japan buy them? Because lockheed pays Abe big $$$, so in turn tax ¥¥¥ are used to buy planes. Also if Japan says no, then America says "increase Okinawa base size", so Japan doesn't say no.

Basically every country currently buying from Lockheed doesn't really need or want the lockheed products, it is simply that Lockheed and the US has so much leverage in other countries' political systems that they can more or less extort them to buy up "or else".

When you are talking about Lockheed and Boeing it has very little to do with the military viability of their aircraft and everything to do with their huge lobby.

Educate yourself user.

How about you compare their performance in similar environments, like Korean or Vietnam war, instead of displaying statistic like destroying 200 terrorist hovels and loosing one plane?

At least they arent Airpus planes.

Now those are a giant pile of shit.

>American planes are meant to be used by American pilots and their NATO allies
>*Sweeps airstrip with a toothbrush*

>Vietnam, why are american infantry so shit?

We raped and burned the Vietcong all the way back to the Cambodian border and forced them to sign a surrender agreement in Paris.

>When you are talking about Lockheed and Boeing it has very little to do with the military viability of their aircraft and everything to do with their huge lobby

On a high up CEO and corrupt government level I would tend to agree.

However, on the lower end engineering and manufacturing side, that is not the case at all. I know several engineers and manufacturing and they take pride in what they do and their mindset is to supply the best product for US military personnel.

Oh btw, the same is true for the MiGs, their main purpose is to be sold to CIS and it's sphere of influence first, combat viability second. I was merely focusing on Lockheed because you are American.

>OP
>1 post by this ID
figures, go neck yourself cunt.

...

Because every time when Russian jets are piloted by Russian (1992) or just proper (India, 2005) crew, American pilots begin to eat dirt.

what did he mean by this

Send a squad of F-15 to bomb a bunch of afgans with stones. kills them, OMG we are awesome!
UNDEFEATED!

It's called maintenance, Ivan. Try it sometime.

lol, your fat soldiers were fleeing like pussies.

The only people you killed were unarmed civilians and children. As soon as one of your soldiers saw an armed Vietcong, he was shitting himself and was running away.

You even named your pathetic escape "Operation Frequent Wind".
You had to push choppers into the see, so that you have enough room for all the incomming fleeing US-"soldiers".

>implying that's what those numbers are

It's air-to-air kills. Most of said F-15 kills were from Israeli Air Force fighting Egyptians and whatnot. And before you try saying "HURRRRR STUPID EGYPTIAN PILOTS":

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Rimon_20

Soviet planes really just are complete shit.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Rimon_20

No, Russians have never made American pilots eat dirt, or any nation's pilots for that matter. I don't give a shit if in one exercise a Russian pilot won. Take a look at your abysmal combat records and let it speak for itself. Your aircraft are complete dog shit.

It's all over priced shit.

>As soon as one of your soldiers saw an armed Vietcong, he was shitting himself and was running away.

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. It must be so pathetic being a non-American and having to deal with the fact that we have the most professional, well-trained and well-equipped military in the world. Estimated 500,000-1,000,000 North Vietnamese MILITARY dead.

Look at those burgers throwing helicopters into the see, just because they aren't even able to evacuate properly.

They had to do this because Vietcong kicked them out of their country and all US-soldiers suddenly had to flee to their ships.

Those are air to air kills friendo

I mean that your military hardware is realy great (no sarcam), until that moment when you need to use it with fucked up infrastructure on your homeland.
>inb4 nobody is gonna get to us
Times are changing, newer say newer. Still want to cooperate with you, though.

What "lowly" engineers think or do is highly irrelevant when talking about buying and selling military hardware on a national scale.

A country like Holland doesn't buy F16's because it needs them, it buys them because they are pressured into doing so. You want to be part of the family? You better contribute, cough up the cash. Which wouldn't really be that bad if these demands were being made from one government to another, but more realistically the demands are being made by big corporations. The influence Lockheed and Boeing have is mindblowing. Every NATO country has Lockheed products, and not because they need them. Lockheed and their products are disgustingly overpriced, but without a competitor who's going to stop them. Their golden era was the coldwar, high demand without competition, a CEO's wet dream. And now with all the tension around the globe we are entering a similar scenario again, enough justification to buy Lockheed products and again no real competition.

It is all a big joke.

...

Take a look at the position and design of the canopy.

>500,000-1,000,000 North Vietnamese MILITARY dead
Are you serious? You believe this propaganda?
Of course, 10 year old children are suddenly all "enemy soldiers".

Just remember that the people who told you that are the same who said that and is a "planned evacuation", this totally was intentionally and your army planned to do that.

This triggers the slav

>en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Rimon_20

Kek, you mean that time when 16 IAF jets ambushed 6 Migs and left the scene before Soviet reinforcements even arrived at the scene? Following this logic, the Israelis still have better KD ratio over Americans than over Russians.

American planes tend to be slightly better than Russian planes of the same generation, and American pilots have lot more flight hours, but the kill counts in OP's meme are mostly due to american jets fighting lower generation opponents, usually while enjoying numerical superiority. It's like pitting an Abrams against a T-62.

>American planes tend to be slightly better than Russian planes of the same generation

youtube.com/watch?v=JA1mZF3FQhc

It's hard to fly a plane in a squatting position

Russian beaten by newest manpad tech designed and produced by USA.

American beaten by scrawny 50lbs rice eyes armed with punji sticks.

really makes you, like, think

Well, do understand with the costing of aviation parts. The government dictates a LOT of the costing. With government testing requirement, fucking paperwork upon mounds of governmental paperwork, each country requiring it's own regulations. Governments forced the cost of the part to skyrocket.

For each government regulation that is an entire support staff that has to ensure that those regs are met. For instance on a washer or a screw or a fastener that is considered "flight" equipment has to go through special government approved testing.

There is talk of a new push right now as well of changing verbage in planes to pictures due to France, Spain, and Belgium. Since the wording is in English and foreign entities buying the planes, the pilots not knowing English these governments are trying to require all wording changed to universally understood pictured illustrations. Well, there is a major cost to do that.

For the most part when dealing with costs, it's the government regulations that get in the way and drive costs.

Honestly, if this sort of pressure is actually going on, then it's a good thing because at least you are having to pay someone for the goddam freeloading. The only reasons those countries don't really need the planes is because someone else is already footing their defense bill!

>Boo hoo, instead of getting our military protection totally free, American corps. are bullying Europeans to buy their planes.

Good.

Why only MiGs and no Sukhoi?

>slavshit
lol

>talking shit about the fox batfui
NATO shill

>complete dog shit
sounds like final designation for f35

doing that minimizes the times you have to overhaul the engines of your plane
not allways easy to do but it pays off in the long run

This guy has a point

Fuck you USA for making millions bleed for your greed

and yet none of that has anything to do with the decision to design or produce these planes, no countries' government has been able to say "no we don't need your planes, making them meet our regulations is too expensive". If regulations get in the way of a contract along comes Lockheed and gets those regulations loosened or circumvented. Costs involved in getting these regulations loosened will be more than made up for in sales afterwards. Besides that more often than not it isn't even lockheed paying for that stuff, it is Lockheed and the US government leveraging other countries into paying for it themselves.

Look at the F35 raptor, you think Lockheed cares about going over budget? They were given all the freedom a company could wish for, no competition whatsoever, and the abused it to hell and back, but don't be mistaken, it didn't cost Lockheed a penny, that would be US and NATO tax money. This isn't caused because "the government dictated it", it was caused by Lockheed Martin having such insane presence in the US government it simply made sure it was granted this amount of freedom to abuse.

>US planes face sandniggers in russian planes
did you expect a different result?

f35 raptor
my favourite after the eurofighter swallow

And the Russians fought world powers? kek.

>operation frequent wind
There's a fart joke somewhere in there.

Well, we are waiting for you to step up and defend yourselves. Go ahead, we'll wait.......

Ruskies are decent engineers, but have trouble actually fielding weapons with the quality they have on paper.

The designs are decent, the build quality varies greatly. QA has been a problem there for a looooooong time.

Completely missing the point. Nobody needs the sort of defense we are talking about. America included, the vast majority of all these Lockheed products have never seen any proper combat, most get decommissioned and replaced before they ever see proper use, the vast majority never make back their cost, not in use nor in presence.

Lockheed doesn't sell planes because it thinks countries need to be protected, it sells planes because selling planes makes big money.

Lockheed doesn't pressure a country like Holland to buy planes because it wants Holland to "foot the defense" bill, it simply wants to sell their fucking planes.

It says air to air, bro. I have never seen a terrorist shack or cave at 30k ASL, have you?

I'm not gonna shit on ya for being a russian, since russians have potential to be great.

But the Mig-21's excuse is completely legit - russian pilots don't train for shit, cause fuel is too expensive for RuAF. They have 0 practice in air, the only time they are allowed to take off is to violate someone's airspace to show how strang we are, cause this is more important than being combat ready. Otherwise they train on a simcabin with 32bit graphics or read old yellow soviet manuals written by a WWII ace who have never flown a reactive jet.

the us planes were of better quality, better systems, but those shoot down statistics are skewed because the us pilots were massive panicky faggots on amphetamines who regularly just shot down enemy aircraft who were not posing a threat, and were even in their own airspaces at the time.

its like if you run up behind me and smash my head in with an iron bar when im out shopping. it doesnt really mean much apart from confirming that op is a faggot

30k american sign language?

Its msl bruv

>I don't know what this is

What conflicts nigger Jew?

Its called war. Get in, kill the enemy, get out, while losing the absolute minimum of your own forces.

It's not the old Soviet zerg rush, but it makes for better morale and a more motivated combat force. And there is a LOT to be said for that.

Thanks for keeping the Americans are idiots trope alive.

Context. We're discussing aircraft. What could ASL be used for as an acronym in such a discussion, I wonder?

Russian planes are some of the best in the world

Reminder that the foxbat was almost as fast as a SR-71 Blackbird

no, actually shooting down planes from countries you are not at war with is not war. but what would burgers know? you only invade places that have zero military capability.

You can use above sea level if you want, but it's improper, and people will wonder if you meant AGL. Hence MSL or mean sea level for us actual pilots

F-4 was trash.
F-5 is where its at.

Sorry your father lost the dogfight.

For the 5 seconds before its engines tore themselves apart.

who /rafale/ here

>F-16
>76-1
>that one was turkish
>we shot it down with based Mirage 2000
>mfw

A lot of it has to do with Soviet fighters having a single occupant and American fighters generally having a dedicated weapons guy.

Daily reminder that MIGs-17/19/21 together with the Soviet AA missiles blew thousands of US aircraft out of the sky in Vietnam, same goes for the Korean war
Daily reminder that all other Soviet/US jet fighters encounters took place in the Middle East where Soviet aircraft was used by Arabs and Western planes were utilized by Westerners/Jews/Iranians who were actual pilots and not fucking Arabs

>radiating
>Ever

How to die 101

your mom's didlo

>I know several engineers and manufacturing and they take pride in what they do and their mindset is to supply the best product for US military personnel.

Are they proud of F-35?

Hence the almost, idiot.

Still an incredible engineering feat considering the insane amount of resources that went into the Blackbird to make it "untouchable"

The average Russian plane costs 34billion, whilst the American costs 74bil

Your entire army is so fucking hard to maintain and costs so much you went into crippling debt from fighting Iraq, a third world shithole

>Daily reminder that all other Soviet/US jet fighters encounters took place in the Middle East where Soviet aircraft was used by Arabs and Western planes were utilized by Westerners/Jews/Iranians who were actual pilots and not fucking Arabs


really makes u think

Yes, I am sure the F35 project was started because we needed better defense. It went 150+ billion USD over budget because that is what was required for it to be an adequate plane. Never mind it is still underperfoming compared to the F16.

Please American kun, please understand that Lockheed doesn't give a shit about a country defending themselves, if they thought they could get away with it they would sell planes to ISIS. This isn't Lockheed stepping up to the plate being a niceguy doing the job nobody wants to do equipping all of NATO with planes. Lockheed Martin is the worlds largest company in the worlds biggest business, they sell hardware, if that means twisting arms then they twist some arms. It has absolutely nothing to do with defense.

To give you another example, Huey during the Vietnam war. More than 20 helicopters were being shot down every week. Do you think Huey cared? Do you think they built those helicopters to win the war? That they were concerned with creating "the best helicopter"? The men at the top were probably jumping up and down every time another helo got shot down, they were in the "sell helicopter" business, not in the "win a war" business.

Same for Lockheed, they are in the "sell planes" business, not in the "provide defense" business. The best planes to sell are military ones, and the best buyers are nations. Ya'll severely underestimating the size and influence of Lockheed.

Considering the Vietnamese agree with those numbers too it's not propaganda. How many conflicts has Austria won recently? When you weren't bending over to submit to Germany you were barely beating back Italian offenses in Veneto

>dat strela tho

Really makes you think

You're a big bear

if russai deregulaed thier economy they would hong kong up and surpass usa and china
all u need nowadays is thorium atomic power
unregulated building
unregulated production

Name an Open Conflict the USSR has had since WW2 where it didn't have air superiority.

>Mig 21
>vs F-15 and F-16
>Anyone is surprised that the MiG's get rekt.

Yea, you could easily sum up the other half of Jewish history as:

"And then they got cocky again....."

>because Russians actually use theirs in conflicts, not for shooting sand nigger blimps.

>well matched enemies

k

It takes a surrogate of a man to praise jews for basically anything
They are lesser,just like the ones who worship them

>implying America succeded

No one said that, he's just defusing the claim that Russia somehow only battled evenly matched foes when that's obviously untrue

>Be american
>"getta fight dem vatniks!"
>give state of the art weapon systems to hadjis and train them
>sandings repel ruskies
>"Oh say can u see!"
>let sandniggers keep weapons they now know how to use
>leave
>come back 20 years later and get mad because the grandsons of the duded you armed are blowing up your humees
>"We winnin the war on tehr!"

or you can protect your engines while on the ground

All part of their plan.

It doesnt help. Lots of your turbine engines have 200hr life spans

Worth mentioning that American aircraft are on average at least 2 times more expensive.

Yeah, to have it fly more than once

>102-0

GOD DAMN SON

>At least one UAV shot down

>As of 8 January 2014, 123 USAF F-15 aircraft had been destroyed in mishaps, with 52 fatalities. This was a lifetime average of 2.93 aircraft destroyed per year, or 1.99 aircraft destroyed per 100,000 flight hours
>"american quality"

TOP KEK

You don't even have a single aircraft carrier Ahmed.

inb4 a wild Su-47 appears

we have yours you dipshit

>murrican retards go die for us in conflicts
>murrican retards spend all their cash on carriers
>we germans sit at home working cushy 80k/month office jobs and watch the war on youtube

>Number built 1

top kek

blut und ehre

A FUCKING RAMP

They couldn't even manage to produce enough Flankers and Fulcrums to keep with NATO 4th gens