Hello Comrades. This general is for the discussion of Marxism-Leninism, the ideology of revolutionary socialism and communism.
Communism is the next stage of humanity following the capitalist stage.
What exactly is communism according to Marxist-Leninists:
>Communism is a stage of society in which the productive infrastructure is socially owned, and goods are produced not in order to sell for profit, but in order to meet a social need. >Communism in it's full form is a stateless, classless society that follows the maxim "From each according to their ability, to each according to their need." >To achieve such a society Marxism-Leninism teaches us that we must replace the capitalist state, which is controlled by the capitalist class, by a socialist state, which is controlled by the working class. Then, a period of class struggle follows in which the capitalist class is liquidated by the working class. When the capitalist class has been completely vanquished, there will be only one class, the working class, and eventually the functions of the state will become indistinguishable from the functions of the society as a whole, and the state as such will 'wither away' as Marx said. marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1847/11/prin-com.htm marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1848/communist-manifesto/
The only communism can exist at this point is global and I don't see that happening any time soon. So few countries produce even the basic needs of their people. You can't really extrapolate industrial era concepts to modernity.
Ethan Turner
Take the Juche pill
Though in the case of North Korea there would be no pill except thin air but you get it point
Adam Reyes
Global socialist states come first.
Cameron Cooper
Has been tried. Never worked. Never will work. Never would have worked due to the fact that humans do not work that way. Funny how I keep saying work in a commie thread, the irony.
Connor Watson
Hello gomrades! XDDDD Dis general is for disgussion of margsism-lebonnism, da ideology of revolutionary socialism and gommunism.
Gommunism is da next stage of guckery following real society.
Wat exagtly is gommunism according to gommies:
>Gommunism is a stage of guckery in which the produgtive infrustrugture runs away from gommie country, and no goods are produced and beeple starve. XDDDD >Gommunism in full form is obressive, statist society dat follows maxim "gib gib gib!" :DDDD >To achieve gommunism we must replace broduction with murderous obressive rulers liek me, fug working glass beeple. XDDDD Struggle while I liquidate you all lol. When capitalists run away we win and I kill you all. Eventually the functions of state cease and state becomes murderous and indistinguishable from other gommies. Da state withers away liek da people. gommies.gom/fug/ gommies.gom/starve/
National Bolshevism make so much more sense though
Kevin Young
Reminder: Commies are delusional utopianists that can't even explain their economic system.
Robert Hill
I'll read your Death Cult links if you can answer me one question:
By what moral right can you lay claim to anything that is mine?
Josiah Wilson
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Caleb Lewis
Fuck off, it never works retard.
Hunter Walker
What makes things yours, in other words, what's the nature of property?
A nature of property is violence.
A state monopolizes violence and regulates proprietary relations.
Thus it's a natural societal right to alter proprietary relations as the consensus sees best or just.
Zachary White
Geert will lose.
Hunter Flores
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Asher Garcia
You didn't answer the question.
You started off by asking a question in reply.
You are parroting the same lunacy as Robespierre (All property is theft).
I'm not partial to having lunatics tell me they have claim on my shit because of an alleged state monopoly on violence (and, since we are well beyond the Peace of Westphalia, the State is quickly realizing their alleged monopoly on sanctioned violence went out the fucking window... 4G Warfare.)
The French realized the only way to rid themselves of the lunatics in charge... is to kill the lunatics.
I don't have a problem with that.
Leo Green
It doesn't. Why do you want people to be equal? It's boring as fuck.
Kayden Hill
Does anyone else find it kind of odd that the main communism general is a Marxist-Leninist general, the type of communism that 90% of communists insists isn't "real" communism?
Bentley Johnson
Found some of your comrades. Hammer and sicko tattoo on one of the degenerates.
Luke Edwards
The consensus defends private property and always will because we are territorial animals. Also, violence sparks up when we can't move out of our families home, we can't even divide property with our own father and live peacefully at least not at the same rate with a separated property.
Never, I repeat, never, people wanted to actually change proletarian norms. In cases like the red terror, or a civil war, they just wanted to literally steal other property and make it theirs. It was a looting hellhole, not a sharing paradise. The collectivist ideals stay in the realm of ideas, and human beings, despite claiming to care on an ideological level, were never really willing to apply it to the real world.
Kayden Moore
This is what scumbag commiefags do to people who own property.
A Kulak's life expectancy was measured in seconds. Then shot dead in a ditch somewhere for being arrogant enough to think they actually "owned' something...
Fuck you and fuck your poisonous Death Cult ideology. Come get some, Vladimir...
John Davis
*proprietary norms fucking brain fart
Wyatt Adams
In political/economic theory, notably socialist, Marxist, and most anarchist philosophies, the distinction between private and personal property is extremely important. Which items of property constitute which is open to debate. In some philosophies, such as capitalism, private and personal property are considered to be exactly equivalent.
Personal property includes "items intended for personal use" (e.g., clothes, homes, and vehicles, and sometimes money). It must be gained in a socially fair manner, and the owner has a distributive right to exclude others.
Private property is a social relationship between the owner and persons deprived (not a relationship between person and thing), e.g., artifacts, factories, mines, dams, infrastructure, natural vegetation, mountains, deserts, seas, etc. Marxism holds that a process of class conflict and revolutionary struggle could result in victory for the proletariat and the establishment of a communist society in which private property and ownership is abolished over time and the means of production and subsistence belong to the community. (Private property and ownership, in this context, means ownership of the means of production, not personal possessions).
To many socialists, the term private property refers to capital or the means of production, while personal property refers to consumer and non-capital goods and services.
Carter Bailey
Oh? Well who gets to decide what is "fair"? What gives them the authority to do so?
If you have 51% of my neighbors "vote" to shoot me dead in a ditch, steal my shit and burn my house down, it's still depraved murder, robbery and arson no matter what niceties or euphemisms you attach to it or if it's "sanctioned" State violence...
Justin Nguyen
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Nathaniel Jackson
Can you niggers leave pol yet
Gtfo back to red dit, goddamn
Oliver Hall
>You didn't answer the question.
Ok. Anyone who has enough strength to take your property away has a natural right to lay claim on anything that you arbitrarily consider yours. Moral right is situational, he'll probably have morals that justify it if he chose to do that.
>The consensus defends private property and always will because we are territorial animals.
The consensus shifts and changes, which proves my point exactly. Ever heard about things like taxes, imminent domain and confiscation?
Jayden Edwards
Not Ideology but Welfare is what feed people. Stop being obsessed with muh politic and give what people want.
Ryan Ramirez
Hello comrade, revolution when?
Carter Lopez
Reported. Commies are not welcome here, try leddit
Is a computer a personal property or a private property, comrade? Is a truck a personal property or a private property? Is a hammer a personal property or private property?
If you want a society that prohibits one but not the other, being able to differentiate both sure seems important, except it seems like you think capital and consumer goods have some sort of magical difference when they actually don't. Companies don't use some magical machines that can only be acquired with capitalist magic, they buy it from a consumer market. They buy cars and vehicles, they buy computers, they buy desks, tables, chairs, they buy printers, they buy telephones. Will all of those be prohibited to your proletariat, comrade? Because if so, that sounds really shitty.
I'm sure you'll reply to me, and won't ignore me like the previous 300 threads, comrade.
Luke Lee
Either A) Fuck off back to leftypol or plebbit or B) Fuck off back to leftypol or plebbit It's never worked, it never will work- no matter how may people starve, no many how many times you explain Lenin,Stalin, Mao away with "not real communism"-they were influenced by the idea, no? Who would you base your infallible version of Marxist thery off of? Marx? Yeah, well so did every fucking pinko bastard that ever fucking existed.
Isaiah Morgan
Loled. Censorfags have no power here, try cripplechan.
David Harris
So, Hobbe's Bellum omnium contra omnes?
Heh... "arbitrarily" consider mine... hilarious. Moral right is situational - just more "there is no truth, just competing agendas" anus leakage applied to morality...
Gramsci would be proud of you.
You can lay claim to my stuff... in fact, I'll actually help you. See, I have way too many bullets... care for some?
Bentley Cruz
>The consensus shifts and changes, which proves my point exactly. Ever heard about things like taxes, imminent domain and confiscation? No, you idiot, I pointed out to you the exact opposite. The consensus hasn't changed for centuries. Because the "consensus" is nothing more than our hardwired instinct of protecting our personal territory, and its unlikely to change meaningfully in millions of years.
Taxes are not real consensus. Confiscation is not real consensus. The tools of government control are not a real sign of consensus of the people. Their actual actions are a proof of consensus. The way they loot and steal for themselves in a scenario of chaos is a sign of consensus, the way they don't actually enjoy to share even in the most extreme communist revolutions is a sign of consensus. People call Mao a brutal dictator precisely because he had to FORCE collectivization. People didn't fucking want to share everything.
Carter Campbell
The glorious "workers revolution" never fucking happened - it fizzled and was stillborn after WWI. Why? Because people like the nice things capitalism affords them.
So, after the Frankfurt School was booted out of Germany and relocated to the US, they switched from economic to social Marxism and applied it to US culture.
That the Frankfurt School was located at Colombia University - right next door to the School of Journalism - has nothing to do with anything, I'm sure...
The only time taking something from anyone is justified morally is if that person voluntarily gives it up free from coercion or threat.
Anything else is morally indefensible.
Easton Moore
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Noah Perez
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Ian Lee
>Moral right is situational - just more "there is no truth, just competing agendas" anus leakage applied to morality
Morality is, by definition feelings. Truth is, by definition, facts.
>You can lay claim to my stuff... in fact, I'll actually help you. See, I have way too many bullets... care for some?
I have no interest in your property at all.
You may keep whatever you think your property is, provided that the United States government also register that as your property, and you comply with the rules and restrictions that it imposes on you using it. If it stops considering you the lawful owner, well, good luck grazing one of the agents of law enforcement with all of your funny little bullets.
Colton Williams
did it just get really faggoty in here?
Luis Parker
You need a free helicopter ride
James Reyes
Yeah, I know...
But these commiefag piles of dog shit want to inflict their Death Cult ideology on me and mine. And for that to happen, people like me and mine have to be gone... extincted off the face of the Earth.
Which is not going to fucking happen without me having a say in the matter.
They want to play by Big Boy Rules? Fine with me. I just need to know what the ROE are and we can go from there...
Daniel White
Morality is not feelings you retard. Only a commie thinks that. Morality is what we each define as righteous, and a good righteous person, is capable of defining his morals with objective ideas, and is capable of discerning right and wrong despite the fluctuation of his or her feelings.
Not a surprise that commies think morals are feelings though.
Also, gun ownership makes states respect private property far more. Turns out the state agents are just people, and they really don't like those "little bullets" coming their way. In places like Brazil where few people own guns and self defense is illegal, the police can just burst into your house to remove mosquito infestations. There's almost zero legal respect for private property. If you want to protect what's yours, you should own guns, you faggot.
Also, see pic, you uneducated Slavic nigger.
Kevin Bennett
Again with this primitive ideology. Not even Brazil supports this shit anymore, man the fuck up kek
Dylan Lopez
Morality is not what you say it is, simply because you say it. YOU are not a fucking authority on morality and have exactly zero credibility and therefore your "definition" is rejected wholesale.
Oh, I MAY keep my property? That's mighty fucking white of you, Gramsci... giving me permission to keep my own shit.
The fucking arrogance of these commiefags... I've scraped better off my boot.
Eli Clark
Daily reminder Jason Unruhe knows nothing about actual Maoism.
Propose a solution to Mises' Economic Calculation Problem or gtfo my board.
Levi Mitchell
WTF? I love Brazil now!
Aiden Jones
It's about power, bro. If one commiefag got one thing right (ever), it was that political power grows from the barrel of a rifle.
Which is true. Which is also why they try so hard to disarm us. By which I mean people anywhere on Earth. Get enough armed people together, maybe they decide they don't want to take shit from you anymore and will DO something about it...
These fucking maggots still push their failed Death Cult ideology because they are mentally ill... it's failed everywhere it's been tried - a complete and total repressive failure - but their justification is that it hasn't really been tried HERE yet...
See, our politicians are sooo much nicer and "fairer" than those nasty old Russians or Chinese or... if we only give them a chance, they are sure it will work THIS time...
Assholes...
Christopher Smith
Commies are subhuman and should be shot on sight
Jeremiah Evans
They'll never do that. They are delusional little shit stains that train themselves to only support their cult, they mentally train themselves like a dogs to ignore any evidence or even mild possibility that they are horribly wrong and misguided. Even socialist professors bail the fuck out when this issue comes up.
Juan Jenkins
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Julian Adams
reminder that this is an r/socialism plot to try and swing Sup Forums to the left
Logan James
>try to subvert Sup Forums >eventually get showered with arguments and evidence that your movement is wrong >afraid to engage in their own threads they made out of cognitive dissonance OP hasn't tried making an argument for a week. He's literally trying to not look inside his own thread. The reality is that these threads are actually redpilling people against communists.
Joshua Barnes
Has been tried. Never worked. Never will work. Fuck commies.
John Johnson
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Josiah Taylor
Pls tell us more about your failed Jewish ideology
Jordan Lopez
ITT: poor and stupid people from bad families want to steal things from better
Jason Rodriguez
Fucking this. If you cant defend your arguments its better to not present them at all.
Thomas Cox
> "innocents"
Traitors, reactionary scum and random assorted degenerates deserve no better. Can't make an omlet without breaking eggs and so on. Also, most were killed by work, not bullets. And a whole lot more by famine.
Andrew Bennett
The delusion is strong with you people. The dago is clearly making these threads to get a rise out of you idiots, and is succeeding splendidly.
Austin Fisher
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Connor Jenkins
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Robert Russell
Reply to thread - we're taking the bait and we're idiots.
Don't reply - they spew anus leakage unopposed and we're idiots.
*shrug*
Rather beat the shit out of them and discredit them, than let them run their dick holsters like all is coolness...
Connor Harris
>unironically follows Marxist Leninist philosophy How does such a dogmatically historical materialism produce a group of anachronistic zeaolots
Asher Roberts
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Brody Howard
perfect :3
Jeremiah Peterson
Making communism work is like solving n-player prisoners dilemma, where n is the whole population of your country. Nothing gonna work because as long as humans are the part of equation. Don't trust humans.
Brandon Reed
What gives capitalists the authority to monopolize the means of production and exploit workers? And, to answer your question In the anarchist's case it's popular consensus of the community.
> If you have 51% of my neighbors "vote" to shoot me dead in a ditch, steal my shit and burn my house down, it's still depraved murder, robbery and arson
If 51 or more % votes to kill your ass and burn your shit you're probably a huge dick that deserves to die.
> it's "sanctioned" State violence...
How can there be state violence when there's no state?
Jaxson Gomez
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Nolan Martin
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Joseph Wood
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Isaiah Perez
>Anarcho commies
Andrew Gray
"Liquidate the Capitalist Class" (with muh non binary friends)
Does the pegging come before or after the revolution, tovarich?
Jacob Perez
As the name PC would sugest, it's personal property. So is a truck, a hammer, a hunting rifle, a chair, clothes and so on and so forth.
Real estate, on the other hand, is private property and it is BAAAD. A group or person can have stewardship of the land, but "owning" it is a bit too much.
A good (though apocryphal) rule of thumb is, if you can move it by yourself, it's personal property.
Michael Gonzalez
10/10 breddy gudd XDDD zaged benis
Aiden Phillips
you retards need a new Franco
Jaxson Rodriguez
Nice comeback Noigel. Full of insightful arguments and facts, and totally not a bullshit JPEG.
Jose Cooper
When will this faggot realize that communism doesn't work?
Gavin King
ihypocrite.net/2017/02/06/92-of-antifa-live-with-parents/ >A new study, published by the German tabloid, bild.de, shows that 92% of left wing political criminals live with their parents. The study paints a further picture of the average antifa member. He is male, 21 to 24 years old, 9 our of 10 are single, and 1 out of 3 does not have a job despite being a grown adult.
Anarchocommunism is literally the ideology of gibsmedat.
Luis Barnes
>beat the shit out of them
Oh, look, it's the local internet tough guy.
Piss of, ya sad yanker.
William Wood
How can we bring Communism to America? I can think of no better economic plan, so how about we get to making it happen?
Kevin Harris
>implying popular "consensus" is not subject coercion >implying it is not a form of coercion What is a community anyway? Also without any established normalizing values, anarchism is much like being a "centrist" it is bourgeois evasion.
Luis Jenkins
>revolution when?
After capitalism solves all the world's problems.
Christopher Butler
> if you can move it by yourself it's personal property
So I can own people then? Noice
Luis Morales
In a capitalistic system, the worker may sell his labor to whom he chooses, or not at all. In a communist system, he may only sell it to the state, at one price. Communism is the exact opposite of worker liberation, it's slavery. Hence sayings in the USSR like "as long as they pretend to pay us, we will pretend to work", and its eventual collapse.
Commies are fucking retarded.
Easton Campbell
>German tabloid, bild.de
Gob save gabidalism XDDDD
Nathaniel Parker
>normalized values
are what define a community. That's why anarchism can only work on an extremely federalized model.
So people agreeing is coercion?
Joseph Wilson
"It" implies inanimate object, you poofter.
Dylan Powell
>Gets asked legit question. >Answers with another question, plus bullshit. >First legit question repeated. >Answers with another question, plus bullshit.
"Popular consensus of the community"...
I call bullshit. Could you be more vague and nebulous?
"..probably a huge dick that deserves to die"...
>Rules of civilized society and morality suspended because of personal opinion.
Fine. Now I know what the ROE are - the morality and laws of civilized society can be suspended at will.
And since I think commiefags are totalitarian assholes, going by the rules you just laid out, that's more than enough justification to shoot commiefags dead before they shoot me dead first.
Can't have "popular consensus" if there are no commiefags left to MAKE a "consensus"...
Ryder Cooper
Helicopter time.
Cameron Turner
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Wyatt Hernandez
You're imagining communism with a capitalist framework. As expected from a huemonkey.
Tyler Rogers
Based and saved.
Parker Cooper
> my board Property is theft, comrade. The board belongs to the people.
But in all seriousness, good point. AFAIK there are models of socialism that do allow for markets (like the Lange-Lerner model) or decentralized planning. Mises' criticism was aimed at centralized planned economies, not distributed models, so it wouldn't apply.
One might also argue that Mises' argument is outdated, since he wrote about the issue in the 20's, before the Great Depression and subsequent boom-bust cycles put into question the validity of capitalist efficiency. There's also the point that today's information technology is so much more advanced than anything Mises could have imagined that central planners could perhaps get all the information they need to operate rationally if there were adequate feedback systems in place. Something along these lines (project Cybersyn) was on track to being implemented in Chile before the coup happened.
All in all, I don't think the economic calculation problem raises a problem for socialism, but only a question: it's not a matter of "socialist economies can't allocate resources optimally" but rather of "how should a socialist economy allocate resources to reach an optimal outcome?",
Brody Wilson
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Andrew Clark
Eternal reminder that communism doesn't work
James Young
Communism is the future comrade. It is paradise on Earth and beyond.
