Vaccine red-pill

I want to know everything.

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Vaccinate your children.

Idiot.

And why?

They're overhyped garbarge.
Our improving quality of life has been the single greatest factor in preventing the damage of diseases.

Jews are brought up to think of themselves as "just another person", however this facade is quickly crushed when it is revealed to them that have had their religion taken from them, that do to the nature of Christianity, they are all sent to hell unconditionaly. In order to restore their religion they must break Chrisitianity and then their Messiah will come reclaiming their souls. It is why they are so exclusive, so prone to untrustfulness and deceitfulness. To them their life has already been decided and who they once saw as friends they see as mortal enemies. Thank God, that he has a sense of humor and picked Goebbels instead of the Jew rats.

They work, you should get them and make sure your children get them to make sure they don't die from easily preventable diseases.

Or don't and let them die, just makes more room for me and mine

Sorry, I try to be objective but I see only strawman here. Don't you have proof of their efficiency?

Last thread got deleted instead of archived

archive.4plebs.org/pol/thread/117388627/

>There are certainly people who believe that unicorns exist too, doesn't mean that we don't consider them nutters as well.

The issue is what leads you to consider them nutters.

There has never been medical evidence to suggest the existence of unicorns. There has been medical evidence to suggest the possibility of a vaccine/autism link. Exploration of that possibility should be treated like any other, with unstigmatised and comprehensive study.

If you're using "Science!" as a semantic stop sign or belief in vaccination as a tool to signal your membership to a tribe kys and then go introspect.

If you have never read a paper on vaccination in your life and have any kind of opinion on the issue kys and then go read."

Thanks for the link

BECAUSE OF THIS YOU RETARD

youtube.com/watch?v=HhDmVgi453U

Data, not emotion pls.

Germanbro from last thread basically covered the corruption angle.

There are a bunch of different arguments on each side.

Questionable things:
Efficacy and safety of vaccination in general
Efficacy and safety of specific vaccines
The corrupting nature of incentives on people and the institutions they work within
The complete shill blowout whenever someone discusses a non status quo topic outside the controlled opposition box
The label of anti-vaxx to anyone who questions the current status quo or progression to mandatory medical procedures

>archive.4plebs.org/pol/thread/117388627/

yeah somebody doesn't like the slavery element in this retarded argument

I will repost the basic concept the Tavistock institute came up with in why they should push forced vaccinations

this is the crux of the argument here, people who don't want to use vaccines or at least want to be able to decide which vaccines they will use if any asset that their body is their own property and not the property of the state

pharma shills assert that goyim are slaves and they cannot make such decisions for themselves as their bodies are state property

the entire vaccine argument is about slavery and the status of the citizen or individual resident or member of the public however you would like to state that

>There has been medical evidence to suggest the possibility of a vaccine/autism link.

well beyond the medical link there is a financial link, there is a state funded vaccine protection fund that people who have been harmed by vaccines withdraw settlements from regularly in exchange for signing a gag order

why would they pay millions if these products are safe?

It's one of the very few topics that gets shilled the most.

They're obviously up to some nefarious shit with these vaccines, but the fact that the topic gets shilled SO hard, probably means that they're doing something way worse than what most people think (it's not just autism).

Perhaps those who say that vaccines is a program that injects viruses into humans on a mass scale are right? We know they engineer their own viruses and they can lie dormant to be activated given certain stimuli, and whose payloads could be everything from mind control to death.

youtube.com/watch?v=ZmOuV-6NRWQ

Why are the shills so all-in on vaccines?

The National Vaccine Injury Compensation Program ("Vaccine Program") comprises Part 2 of the National Childhood Vaccine Injury Act of 1986 ("Vaccine Act"). See Pub. L. No. 99-660, 100 Stat. 3755 (1986) (codified as amended at 42 U.S.C. §§ 300aa-1 to -34). The Vaccine Act became effective October 1, 1988. It establishes the Vaccine Program as a no-fault compensation program whereby petitions for monetary compensation may be brought by or on behalf of persons allegedly suffering injury or death as a result of the administration of certain compulsory childhood vaccines. Congress intended that the Vaccine Program provide individuals a swift, flexible, and less adversarial alternative to the often costly and lengthy civil arena of traditional tort litigation.

uscfc.uscourts.gov/vaccine-programoffice-special-masters

>It's one of the very few topics that gets shilled the most.

vaccines chemtrails and pizzagate

Their efficacy rate is overblown, herd immunity is a meme, and they legitimately can fuck you up, thanks to the stem cells they have in them to alter your DNA, and the mercury in them
the autism thing is largely just a meme though, it's almost guaranteed to be caused by our lack of natural selection, allowing shit genes to pass on and continuously be propagated

You have to start slowly with people. Any more than one step from status quo, especially a step which could implicate multiple institutions which people rely on for safety and identity, will make them cramp up and then you've lost them.

we've lost them already, I'm just having fun, all these people are already dead

but the celebrities will die first,

youtube.com/watch?v=4MpTJ4ykgCw

and this wouldn't be too difficult to understand if anyone had read Plato

Vaccines and soyou in everything that feminizes men. All are apart of some fucked up plan.

what did Kek mean by this?

I've made pretty good progress getting people to realise the errors in their beliefs. It's slow and gruelling, but entirely possible.
Don't underestimate the power of individuals

soyou?

Satan is telling you to pay attention

people can change but it's too late for that, Wigner effect shows that the entire population of the globe is about to die off, we'll be lucky to have another 100 years of human life

>soyou in everything that feminizes men.

petrochemicals do most of that part but they all contribute to the whole

youtube.com/watch?v=od3NE0y3LkQ

Giving up means it's definitely too late. Trying leaves a chance regardless of its size.

I just do it because I find meaning in accepting responsibility and it makes the suffering of life worthwhile.

>Giving up means it's definitely too late.

I will never give up, but it's only a matter of time before human females are unable to carry a baby to term

this is already happening to celebrities, it will spread if we continue to do nothing

meanwhile cunts here want to sell shots

But CRISPR has the potential to repair and write DNA in living people.

Soya beans. They contain plant version of estrogen.

My interest is peaked.

sure they do, whatever top end health tech they have it hasn't prevented jessica alba from having three miscarriages

Are you going to try it? Crispr scares me

Oh it's not necessarily something we understand how to do yet, but it's on the table as a possibility in the next 5-10 years.

CRISPR is fucking crazy powerful technology, we just need to know what individual genes do to work it.

Look at gene drives, that stuff can wipe out entire species by accident.

I'm going to avoid it like the plague until it's much older. Even when convention touts it as "safe", but eventually, sure. Mental performance increases would be amazing.

Watch for the preservatives in them, they contain heavy metals

I just did a scholarly search on "link between vaccines and autism" and came up with at least 5 papers that confirm 0 causational link between the two, as well as a paper confirming and proving that a partcular paper that claimed there was a link, was fraudulent.

I'm trying hard to find any evidence and it just doesn't exist. Would you like to kindly direct me to the articles you are speaking of? What magical right wing echo chamber website did you find these unicorn-esque publications?

soya beans contain estrogen, no wonder vegan males are basically women with dicks.
wait why doesn't Sup Forums like vegans again?

You should vaccinate.
If you refuse to, you should at least vaccinate your pets. Do not skimp on anything, give them every vaccine they need, as much as they need.

I'm avoiding it too, I think it's going to create all kinds of genetic diversity problems by homogenising the genes of the target organism. Then we'll call these new sub species of humans some cutsie name.

For example; I personally think GMO/Monsanto Rapeseed (canola) is actually a new species closely related to the original rape plant. The introduced genes from mustard and other plants will eventually mutate around and make a visually similar but highly toxic cousin to the original organism in x years. Long after everyone who created the mess is too dead to sue.

Crispr and vaccines are voluntary eugenics, imagine if the vaccines only cause your great great grandkids to be born sterile? It's perfect and crispr will do the same thing differently.

I'm opting out, we humans never get ANYTHING right the first time ever. Our potential for hyper intelligence comes from co-operation, not super individuals imo.

Yes they work, surprisingly no Polo for me. They help build up immunity to diseases user.

Piqued - illiterate leaf

Fuck (((vaccines))). Haven't had any for years and I haven't been sick aside from allergies.

By far you win the most retarded comment award

Good job faggot

I have a masters in microbiology

I think I should state upfront that I'm undecided on the issue of the vaccine/autism link, I just don't think it's a definitive no.

Just getting a list of resources together, gimmie a sec.

>What magical right wing echo chamber website did you find these unicorn-esque publications?

Nice assumptions fampai

If you link individual studies we can go over them together

Just the fact that a skilled highscool student with a basic lab could create a gene drive is worrying enough.

>Our potential for hyper intelligence comes from co-operation, not super individuals imo.
But cooperation of super individuals!

Got any good resources on GMO?

Notice how the flavour of shilling is different this thread?
Also did your captcha get worse?

I think the proof that they work is the fact that the diseases that they prevent (polio, measles, etc) used to be fucking everywhere, and now no one gets them at all.

I'm open to discussion about whether they have adverse affects but let's not go full retard and try to claim they don't actually do anything

This is a graph made by a blog that says you can prevent deadly childhood diseases through organic diets.

There is no vaccine redpill, you fucking autists. There is ZERO credible evidence that vaccinations cause autism, the rise of children on the autistic spectrum is a combination of 1) The parameters for diagnosing a child with autism has risen from a few factors to hundreds and
2)Women giving birth later in life, now it is not at all uncommon for them to give birth in their mid or late thirties, every year after 35 there is a really good chance your child will develop autism or other abnormalities, it is not an ideal biological age to have offspring, finally we get to:
3) All of the industrial chemicals that are in our food, water, air, and living spaces. There has been almost no research done on the long term effects of many chemicals that are put into the daily items we consume.

That's it, case closed, read a book you fucking faggots and fuck off with this vaccines cause autism nonsense, how many more news stories do you need of retarded parents not vaccinating their children and then causing a measles outbreak?

>Allergies
To the gas chamber with you, inferior genetic scum

From last thread.

>now no one gets them at all

Trends in each vaccine preventable disease have been rapid decline before the introduction of the vaccine.

Many of the reactions from vaccines are symptoms of the conditions they aim to prevent, paralysis from the polio vaccine etc. Hyperimmunization is a bitch. It's unclear as to whether or not these reactions are simply being sick from the disease present in the vaccine.

>not go full retard and try to claim they don't actually do anything
I think some probably do something, but I wouldn't claim to be certain about every vaccine ever released to the public.

Dietary health does prevent a large amount of disease. Being healthy makes you healthy lol.
Search for alternatives, you'll find the same data again and again.

Fuck off nigger, it's just to cats and citrus.

Why would I link you individual studies when the burden of proof here is on you? If you can show me piece of primary literature that confirms a link between autism and vaccines, I will read it and prepare with a counter argument.

Especially considering the majority of articles that disprove the link were written in response to one author's fraudulent article, specifically because he was so obviously wrong and they needed to calm the shitstorm, there's no reason to investigate those articles without any initial evidence to your claim being true.

Basically, as arguments go, you've made the first claim and therefore if you cannot provide evidence of your side, there literally is no argument. I don't have to prove that I'm right and you're wrong if you can't even prove that you're right to begin with.

>weak to cat hair and lemons
don't sully the gene pool weakling

Are you fucking done yet?

It's just something to do while I get my shit together. I have explanations for each of the studies too if need be.

I have ~30 or so studies linking Thimerosal to autism.

Rose et al. 2015 J Toxicol “Increased Susceptibility to Ethylmercury-Induced Mitochondrial Dysfunction in a Subset of Autism Lymphoblastoid Cell Lines” PMID 25688267

Geier et al. 2015 Clin Chim Acta “Thimerosal: Clinical, Epidemiologic and Biochemical Studies,” PMID

Yassa 2014 Environ Toxicol Pharmacol “Autism: A Form of Mercury and Lead Toxicity,”

Geier et al. 2014 J Biochem Pharmacol Res “The risk of neurodevelopmental disorders following a Thimerosal-preserved DTaP formulation in comparison to its Thimerosal-reduced formulation in the vaccine adverse event reporting system (VAERS)” 2:64

Koh et al. 2014 Mol Brain, “Abnormalities in the zinc-metalloprotease-BDNF axis may contribute to megalencephaly and cortical hyperconnectivity in young autism spectrum disorder patients” PMID

Geier et al. 2013 Translational Neurodegeneration, “A two-phase study evaluating the relationship between Thimerosal-containing vaccine administration and the risk for an autism spectrum disorder diagnosis in the United States” PMID 24354891

Gorrindo et al. 2013 PLOS One “Enrichment of Elevated Plasma F2t-Isoprostane Levels in Individuals with Autism Who Are Stratified by Presence of Gastrointestinal Dysfunction” DOI: 10.1371

Gronborg et al. 2013 JAMA Pediatrics, “Recurrence of Autism Spectrum Disorders in Full and Half-Siblings and Trends over Time A Population-Based Cohort Study” d1001jamapediatrics.2013.2259

Sharpe et al. 2013 J Toxicol “B-lymphocytes from a population of children with autism spectrum disorder and their unaffected siblings exhibit hypersensitivity to thimerosal” PMID 23843785

COMMENT TOO LONG

hmmm...

Sharpe et al. 2012 J Toxicol “Thimerosal-Derived Ethylmercury Is a Mitochondrial Toxin in Human Astrocytes: Possible Role of Fenton Chemistry in the Oxidation and Breakage of mtDNA” PMID 22811707

Sulkowski et al. 2012 Cerebellum “Maternal thimerosal exposure results in aberrant cerebellar oxidative stress, thyroid hormone metabolism, and motor behavior in rat pups; sex- and strain-dependent effects” PMID 22015705

Kern et al. 2011 Toxicol Environ Chem “Toxicity biomarkers among US children compared to a similar cohort in France: a blinded study measuring urinary porphyrins” PMID 24482554

Gallagher et al. 2010 J Toxicol Env Health A “Hepatitis B vaccination of male neonates and autism diagnosis, NHIS 1997-2002” PMID 21058170

Minami et al. 2010 Cell Biol Toxicol “Induction of metallothionein in mouse cerebellum and cerebrum with low-dose thimerosal injection” PMID 19357975

Geier et al. 2009 J Neurol Sci “Biomarkers of environmental toxicity and susceptibility in autism PMID 18817931

Young et al. 2008 J Neurol Sci “Thimerosal exposure in infants and neurodevelopmental disorders: an assessment of computerized medical records in the Vaccine Safety Datalink” PMID 18482737

Geier et al. 2008 Neuro Endocrinol Lett “Neurodevelopmental disorders, maternal Rh-negativity, and Rho(D) immune globulins: a multi-center assessment” PMID 18404135

Adams et al. 2007 J Tox Environ Health A “Mercury, lead, and zinc in baby teeth of children with autism versus controls” PMID 17497416

Geier et al. 2007 J Matern Fetal Neonatal Med “A prospective study of thimerosal-containing Rho(D)-immune globulin administration as a risk factor for autistic disorders” PMID

Geier et al. 2007 J Toxicol Env Health A “A case series of children with apparent mercury toxic encephalopathies manifesting with clinical symptoms of regressive autistic disorders” PMID 17454560

...

Desoto et al. 2007 J Child Neurol “Blood Levels of Mercury Are Related to Diagnosis of Autism: A Reanalysis of an Important Data Set” 22:1308

eier et al. 2006 J Toxicol Env Health A “An evaluation of the effects of thimerosal on neurodevelopmental disorders reported following DTP and Hib vaccines in comparison to DTPH vaccine in the United States” PMID 16766480

Nataf et al. 2006 Toxicol Appl Pharmacol “Porphyrinuria in childhood autistic disorder: implications for environmental toxicity” PMID 16782144

Herbert 2005 Neuroscientist “Large brains in autism: the challenge of pervasive abnormality” PMID 16151044

Burbacher et al. 2005 Environ Health Perspect “Comparison of blood and brain mercury levels in infant monkeys exposed to methylmercury or vaccines containing thimerosal” PMID 16079072

Yel et al. 2005 Int J Mol Med “Thimerosal induces neuronal cell apoptosis by causing cytochrome c and apoptosis-inducing factor release from mitochondria” PMID 16273274

James et al. 2005 Neurotoxicol “Thimerosal neurotoxicity is associated with glutathione depletion: protection with glutathione precursors” PMID 15527868

James et al. 2004 Am J Clinical Nutrition “Metabolic biomarkers of increased oxidative stress and impaired methylation capacity in children with autism” 80:1611

Waly et al. 2004 Mol Psychiatr “Activation of methionine synthase by insulin-like growth factor-1 and dopamine: a target for neurodevelopmental toxins and thimerosal” PMID 14745455

Hornig et al. 2004 Mol Psychiatr “Neurotoxic effects of postnatal thimerosal are mouse strain dependent” PMID 15184908

Juul-Dam et al. 2003 Pediatrics “Prenatal, perinatal and neonatal factors in autism, pervasive development disorder-not otherwise specified, and the general population” PMID

Holmes et al. 2003 Int J Toxicol “Reduced levels of mercury in first baby haircuts of autistic children” PMID 12933322

That is data. Shit like this can be prevented with vaccination. I think there's certainly a RISK for some fuckery when it comes to vaccines, but they are proven to work as a scientific concept so I get them because being sick fucking sucks.

...Have you considered that all these conspiracy theories about vaccination-and the damage it does to herd immunity-is why it gets shilled so hard?

Seriously, guys, we had measles on the ropes until this whole "vaccines are a conspiracy" thing. Then we got measles outbreaks in Disneyland because gullible parents decided they'd rather had dead kids than autistic ones. What did you THINK was going to happen?

Ive never heard in my life that unvaccinated children are dangerous for vaccinated ones

What you might be thinking of is the fact that most serious diseases weaken the immune system, thus allowing more common bacterial infections to occur, which would then go on to infect the vaccinated children

Aschner et al. 2002 Mol Psychiatr “The neuropathogenesis of mercury toxicity” PMID 12142946

Makani et al. 2002 Genes Immun “Biochemical and molecular basis of thimerosal-induced apoptosis in T cells: a major role of mitochondrial pathway” PMID 12140745

Bernard et al. 2002 Mol Psychiatr “The Role of Mercury in the Pathogenesis of Autism” PMID 12142947

Bernard et al. 2001 Med Hypotheses “Autism: A Novel Form of Mercury Poisioning” PMID 11339848

Verstraeten et al. 1999 Internal CDC Abstract for the Epidemic Intelligence Service Meeting of 2000 “Increased risk of developmental neurologic impairment after high exposure to thimerosal-containing vaccine in first month of life.”

END DUMP

Also, on top of that, vaccines arent some magical immunity pill, they just teach your body how to deal with the infection instead of having it learn on its own the hard way. People who are vaccinated can still get the disease, but the symptoms will either be gone, much milder, and/or last for a lot less time

What does this mean?

The fact that a child is crying and sick doesn't say anything about vaccination. It's just an emotionally provocative attempt to re-enforce your rhetoric. I say again, data pls.

It's the herd immunity idea. Look at serious pro vaccine sources and they'll explain it.

Vaccines are important and truly one of the miracles of medicine.

However, medical companies have no morals of their own, and very little oversight and as such shit gets out of hand.

For example, Polio Vaccine has all but eradicated polio, and is considered as the most successful vaccine. No argument about it.

But then you have the H1N1 vaccines etc. that people are scared by the media to get, afterall what wouldn't you do for your kids. Thing is.. For example, pig flu and the bird flu epidemics never really reached Finland (example) and caused only a few deaths on the elderly and terminal patients.

On the otherhand the latest vaccination caused 40 children to get narkolepsia for the rest of their miserable lives.

The medical trials are laughable. If at first you dont succeed, try again. - Is their motto as they are allowed to retry the trials as many times they want, and all they need is single successful test to put out a new medicine, or a vaccine.

So: Vaccines are fine, its the medical corporations who need more and better oversight, and having a bit of responsibility would be fine too, like revoking lisences over bigger cases.

As a virologist who studied at UQ I can tell you it's pretty damn important to get vaccinated.

Common misconception.

>mercury in vaccine is bad for you.
Technically yes but it's to make your body feel sick and trigger an immune response to ensure the probably success of vaccination.

>vaccines cause autism.
The article and supporting evidence for that claim was found to be without merit. Numerous studies have been invested into this issue. Results on complete symptoms and affects from vaccines (by type) are still pending but no known autism yet.

>vaccines make you sick.
They trigger an immune response and your body feels like its sick but really isn't (if you want to count actual viral reproduction occurring)

>vaccines don't help public health
By shielding those who cannot get vaccines by making those around them immune and therefore not carriers they do.

>Vaccines contain actual viruses that can hurt you
No, the viruses are very rarely alive, we either take out their DNA/RNA inside, rendering them harmless or we simply use parts of their protein envelop the part which binds to your cells..

Am I wrong on a scientific level? It's not my field but I'm really interest in all scientific subjects, and this has lead me to believe that genetically altering something by knocking out some genes and leaving others will have untold ripple effects in future generations.

In my opinion this will lead to unpredictable mutations in the future generations. My supporting evidence is pedigree animals, even though they aren't GMO'd in the crisper sense the unique set of problems they have can be correctly blamed on their genetic state.

Also the interaction of plant RNA with our DNA seems to be huge, with active RNA from edible seaweed turning up in the cells of Japanese and Chinese people. Some Chinese uni researched this recently, I read it some where online.

If it's true that there's a relationship between our DNA and the RNA of the plants we eat, wouldn't it be a dangerous move to suddenly change the RNA of our food? It all just feels about as safe as lead additives in fuel to me.

Sadly I don't, I really haven't given this subject enough of my time in all honesty. But roundup...

There is some scary stuff coming out of southern NSW though - the parkinsons rate has gone way up and apparently it's because of round up being used on the crops.

The GMO crops are drenched in round up every 2 months or something, because the plants have been modified to be immune to round up, the spraying just clears out the non crop plants easily allowing full resources to be available to the GMO crop.

Apparently the active ingredient in round up is what's causing the parkinsons due to the extremely high levels of it in those areas. The Vietnamese had some pretty horrific experiences with agent orange which appears to be making a comeback, on our food!


the (((BBC))) bbc.com/news/science-environment-19585341

I would actually say that the most successful vaccine was smallpox, it was by far the more deadly (in terms of treatment options, especially in third world countries) and it was completely eradicated unless you count old artifacts from 1700's that keep poking up with it on them from time to time.

That is something I'd really like to see studies on. To what degree does each vaccine decrease the severity of its targetted disease.

Vaccines have definitely touted as a magic immunity pill in the past.

You are correct, Smallpox could be more important, Polio is too though,

If it's true that there's a relationship between our DNA and the RNA of the plants we eat, wouldn't it be a dangerous move to suddenly change the RNA of our food?
Is what you said.

You will find that the vast majority of cases of food changing/mutating genes is from viruses/mutagens in the food. Next to all proteins when ingest are digested into their base forms by our enzymes.

Vaccines have likely saved more lives than any other breakthrough ever made. Even more significant, they save the lives primarily of innocent children, who otherwise would get to die horribly of nasty diseases. They are an objective good.

Even if they did cause cancer or autism or whatever, it would STILL BE WORTH IT. Autists are still a tiny fraction of the population, compared with the mountains of dead children we used to have to deal with. This goes double in our highly urbanized society. Outbreaks are going to be horrific when they happen.

Persons who do not vaccinate their children should be punished for neglect, and if their child develops an ailment that could have been prevented, and communicates this ailment to another child who was relying on herd immunity to prevent them from getting sick before they were old enough to be vaccinated themselves, then the parents should be liable for manslaughter. Of a child.

Of all the many horrible and ironic features of post-modern society, the baffling backlash against fucking vaccines of all things is the one that taxes me the most. Vaccines are one of the best things that has ever happened to human beings and anyone opposed to them is criminally stupid.

One other thing to note:

The total number of children who got narkolepsia was 152, on a country with total population of 5 million, with ~1million children, out of which, maybe 500k were vaccinated with the H1N1.

But you don't get any official accurate numbers anywhere. Gee I wonder why.

It's kinda the same as the Lobbyists for the vaccine, the medical company making it or anyone involved did not get any punishment, not even a symbolic slap on the wrist.

youtube.com/watch?v=BqsvJedwUyg

The relevant part for me starts at 6:38 - how is this guy able to do this if what we know about immune response is correct? I've been dying to talk to someone qualified about this since I first discovered Wim.

Any input you have would be really appreciated :)

You do no innoculation was a thing before vaccination, for centuries in fact? That was what got the ball rolling and was driving down rates of infection, and it was precisely because of it's efficacy that vaccines were developed as a safe and more efficient form of innoculation.

I have a primary immune disorder and I have been surrounded by the best immunologists in the country all my life. Hearing about the dangers of vaccinations really squeezes my grape jelly.

Long story short. Thank you for trying to clarify to otherwise well-meaning people

I honestly don't know, that seems very odd indeed :/

a bit of perspective addition there:
the "normal" rate of narkolepsia on children is 1 out of 100,000 according to the commission investigating the vaccination caused narkolepsia. After the H1N1 pandemrix vaccination, the number was 6 out of 100,000 according again to the investigation.

but if that was true, then in Finland 2,5 million children would have been vaccinated, and while we don't even have that many, its moot anyway since its very unlikely 50% of the population took a seasonal vaccine for a disease nobody believed would even reach us, and it didn't.

The same bullshit commission said the vaccine saved 80,000 people, but thats numbers from their ass.

In any case, I come back to my point. Vaccines are good, Medical drug companies are not. More oversight and responsibilities is needed to them, but people should also get vaccinated, atleast for the basic ones. I will steer clear of any seasonal vaccines for shit like H1N1

note how only americans think vaccines are bad for you because they are dumb as dogshit and honestly think every scientist in the world could be in on a conspiracy

>Vaccines have likely saved more lives than any other breakthrough ever made.
It's important to not generalise from one successful vaccine to another. Vaccines can be good or bad depending on their effects and side effects. This equation needs to be weighed differently for each individual depending on their family history with vaccines and other factors.

Each medical procedure should be considered separately and with an informed choice.

It's also important to try and separate the effect of increases in hygiene from the effects of a vaccine. No one factor operates in a vacuum. Find a graph showing the trends of any vaccine preventable disease for 50 years+ prior to the introduction of the vaccine.

>should be punished for neglect
If you have a family history of vaccine damage it would be neglect to vaccinate.

>criminally stupid
Nice thought police meme

Do you seriously not know what antibiotics do and how they work?

fpbp

/thread

god damn cat

Yeah it's fucking crazy, it breaks what I thought I knew as an armchair observer of science. I just wish I could find the bloody article about how active seaweed RNA that he been digested by small prawns and other small animals (krill etc), then they're eaten by small fish, larger fish and then human - after all of that how is the RNA from the seaweed still able to interact with the human DNA at the top of that food chain?

If you have a reaction to a vaccine and die, your folks don't have to go through court to get the monies.

>efficiency
Do you mean efficacy..?
Interestingly enough, you may want look up those terms and learn the difference - before actively taking part in a debate/discussion on the topic..

Kekd

probably because the rna replicates in digestion.

>it's pretty damn important to get vaccinated
It really depends on the particular vaccine.

>Technically yes but it's to make your body feel sick and trigger an immune response to ensure the probably success of vaccination.
But the side effects of vaccine ingredients like mercury can outweigh the potential positive effects depending on the person. This is not a decision you can make without an understanding of an individual's context.

>The article and supporting evidence for that claim was found to be without merit.
There is a range of evidence in both directions and a heap of unscientific stigma toward researching it. There is an obvious potential for conflict of interest which is repeatedly ignored and stigmatised.

>They trigger an immune response and your body feels like its sick but really isn't (if you want to count actual viral reproduction occurring)
It really depends. Some people actually die or have other adverse reactions more severe than the condition that is trying to be prevented.
Look at medalerts.org/ for a database on vaccine reactions.

>By shielding those who cannot get vaccines by making those around them immune and therefore not carriers they do.
Are you coming from the angle that vaccines completely prevent disease or are just a way to reduce the severity? Does it vary depending on vaccine? I've heard different experts take different points of view.

If you're a 100% preventionist, explain the massive rises in vaccinated infection rates following whooping cough vaccination.

If you're a reductionist, do you have any links to resources about the degree to which vaccination is supposed to reduce the severity of a particular disease?

If you believe it differs between vaccines, what causes that difference and where is it documented?

>No, the viruses are very rarely alive, we either take out their DNA/RNA inside, rendering them harmless or we simply use parts of their protein envelop the part which binds to your cells..

Very rarely, is not never. Which means that there is a risk involved which should be discussed along with potential side effects and family medical history.

Sure if you have an individual case where the contents of a vaccine can cause you adverse reactions then by all means seek an alternative vaccine (one that doesn't trigger an immune response of such scale for example) although these have a greater risk of going unnoticed by your body.

As for the possibility of a live virus that is fully functional being included into the vaccine, it is extremely slim, we go through many screening processes and sterilisations of the vaccine.

Of course it's always a possibility. But so is your chiropractor breaking your neck

The severity of how an individual reacts to a vaccine depend on many factors, it can sometimes be attributed to allergic reactions. Other times the immune response was to damaging to the body, the heart in particular (for old people). Suffers a great deal during fevers which the vaccine can bring about.

I myself to this day have had a total of 26. Vaccines, three years ago I had 4 of those within 2 weeks, I was completely bed ridden, of course my profession requires I went through that.

Nice cat. Do you like mine? pic
My father in law is a retired doctor.
He put the argument like this: which is better; suffering disease and dying or having some side effects?
I had the MMR vaccination as a kid. And my daughter has had it. There's an argument that it's toxic. But I'm not a medic.
MMR is measles rubella and mumps. Nasty diseases.

I had horrible influenza (the flu) when I was 6 years old. I'm 49 now. I remember little about it. My life was on a thread. It was in the 1970s. I think playing in dirt, exposure to the elements, being around animals gives a healthy immune system.
Of course, we all get old and die.

>Sure if you have an individual case where the contents of a vaccine can cause you adverse reactions then by all means seek an alternative vaccine

Another appropriate option would be no vaccine if the alternate vaccines share potentially harmful ingredients. One doesn't want to risk some of the potential side effects (ie death, paralysis, seizuring) if they are worse than the risk calculated effect of the condition being prevented or reduced.

>But so is your chiropractor breaking your neck.
The reversion of attenuated viri to virulence is far more common than a chiro snapping a neck. It is also a risk that should be stated clearly as any risk for a medical procedure.

>I myself to this day have had a total of 26.
An individual data point has little impact here.

If you're willing to pay the price you can get vaccines that do not contain particular materials. I don't know the price but I hear that they can be quite expensive .

I think you will find that the materials in vaccines are not as dangerous as they seem.

As for the chiropractor point, I would argue the opposite, the large majority of the 'Asian massage industry' (technically chiropractors in China) has cause many more health risks than vaccination. By deaths alone the massage industry is far more dangerous.

>If you're willing to pay the price.
This would be a serious barrier to some large families.

>you can get vaccines that do not contain particular materials.
One issue is the lack of transparency surrounding manufacturing processes meaning that all of the contained materials will not necessarily be disclosed as ingredients.
It is difficult to know what to omit and testing a full dose is unethical with the potential risks.
Another is the lack of focussed research into the severe side effects of vaccines in some people. It seems to just be an issue that is ignored and stigmatised outside of the field of research.

>As for the chiropractor point
So would you argue that one should ignore the risks posed by the 'Asian massage industry'?
Honestly, I feel this comparison is just a strawman.

There are risks in a medical procedure. These risks are not currently outlined to patients and should be. If it is a known risk of a medical procedure, it should be disclosed prior to the procedure so a patient can make informed consent.

>it should be disclosed prior to the procedure so a patient can make informed consent.

I personally don't administer vaccines but every vaccine I've had has been given to me with the information that this will cause an immune response, I can't speak for all people in that regard though. Of course I've never been told 'this might kill you'. But once again, almost every medical treatment has the potential of death.
I personally don't think the risk is big enough to be made mandatory for all vaccines to be administered with the 'death may occur' warning.

Just like how many painkillers and anesthesia also don't come with the doctors words of 'this might kill you'


As for the material list, you can get a list of what the vaccine have. If you really want you could have tests undertaken as to what material are hazardous to the individual.

Nice cat and story, user. Wish there were more people like you. Thanks for sharing.

Vaccines were responsible for the eradication of one the worst diseases mankind ever faced: Smallpox.