Damn.. How can Sup Forums refute this?

Damn.. How can Sup Forums refute this?

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With shitty green text strawmans and non arguments of course.

>Tfw these people literally haven't read basic economics.

As long as currency has value that will always be the case.

This confuzzles me

Pls explain clearly

>okay but sweaty

Even when he's making shit up he still gets made fun of for being fat

It's another case of liberals saying people will work for free. I wouldn't bother with it.

The whole premise is that meterials appear when you wish for them and will self assemble into whatever you need and in any quantity.

I dont know if this is even bait. Its retarded.

>scarcity is fabricated
>AFRICA WOULD BE A SPACE EMPIRE IF DA WHITEY WASN'T TAKING OUR LAND AND MAKING US WORK
Commies deserve death

stuff is thrown in the dumpster because we dont throw oil in the dumpster
we dont throw oil in the dumpster because we use every drop to transport stuff
so you can either have some stuff, a way to transport it, and a dumpster for the waste
or you can throw oil in the dumpster because you are now wasting it

Holy shit, this strawman is so bad I can't tell which side is supposed to be wrong.

If you can't even make an unreasonable caricature of your opponent reliably, you really need to rethink some things.

Scarcity is real but also fabricated.

Money is a great way to assign final costs to complex production chains.

>Literally literally literally literally literally literally literally literally literally literally literally literally literally literally literally literally literally.
Does not make you point anymore valid.

>ok sweaty

>Build solar power-plants
>Build factories
>Factories build robots
>Robotic factories build robots
>robots build plant farms
>robots build meat farms (labs)
>robots build housing
>robots build mines
>robots build infrastructure
>humans eat, enjoy the labor of robots and develop/advance

Money is not needed in any step of that process as it is a self contained system. This is similar to how a martian colony would look. This is also similar to how the plantations worked, if you replace robot with slave.

Mechanization will be the next form of human slavery, and humans will have phased out their own need to exist.

In the present time/world, money is an index of value. Value is how much worth you place on something and how much is available. Water is highly valuable, but highly abundant. People will pay more for things they want, but do not need. Capitalism is providing for a want by charging more than the required parts used to satisfy the want.

>implying

i wonder on what the dollars are backed with....oh wait

Overthrow the Federal Reserve and then we will talk

Listen here marxist faggot. An automated society is absolutely retarded. I can prove this with two concepts. Murphy's law and Skills Shortage.
>100 years after this society created
>AI machine broke
>No Tradies or programmers left to fix it
>Anarchy
This is basically the way you'd get a Ancap Society to start up

>Here's this carrot on the stick
>btw no carrot

Each step of build something requires what it is made out of to be constructed. Which needs the materials that need to be manufactured. Which in turn needs processed raw materials, Which need raw material extraction.

Every step requires labor. Those people doing the labor want food, energy, transportation, healthcare, education, entertainment, everything a consumer wants.

How do you assign a flexible means to satisfy all those needs?

Money isn't a problem. How we make money and distribute it is.

You're forgetting that no one will bother gaining any skills at this rate. This also means that if the machine breaks down or goes rouge, no one will be able to fix it/fight it.

A world wide failure of every computer and every expert system or AI is extremely unlikely.

it could work but only if u put the creative works on top cause all the other stuff will be automated...

goods and services
>but what are goods and services backed with?

Clearly we make machines to fix machines.
~
If every bit of mining equipment all failed at the same time we wouldn't be able to mine the ores we use to make mining equipment. (just ignore the stockpiles of processed ores and material we can recycle and reuse as new mining equipment, like we ignore all the backups we would have for automated production)

Better go back to using sticks just in case.

>I am not going to work to put a roof over my head , put food on my table, or turn on the lights, unless you give me a piece of paper with green ink on it.

Well.. in that system it would be a form of communism, where the founders would sacrifice their work to establish the society and would be paid by the fruits of their initial labor. The interesting part of this, is after the initial creation, this type of society could seed entire cities with the initial raw materials, so they would not have to start from scratch.

Not gonna lie, this is pretty redpilled for tumblr. Economy without $$$ = the biggest fuck you to the Jew.

Its not about every computer, say the computer controlling large amounts of power grid goes down, there goes the rest of them that control other grids. The issue isnt if its when and whether or not people will still possess the skills needed to repair/replace these things.

Unless i get something out of it, im not giving away the shit i produce for free. Its almost like we would need a form of commodity that holds value and can be exchanged.

Again the issue is if a crucial control computer goes down. No human will be able to repair it

Because time. That's why. The marxist doesn't fucking understand time.

so who is going to move the goods?
why would they move the goods?

The elimination of money is Marxism 101. Hardly redpilled. Just fucking stupid.

>You're forgetting that no one will bother gaining any skills at this rate.

It's a UBI question, what do you do when you do not have to work? In this system, that would be a question for the society to answer, if there even is a society, as this system could function without people.

Machines going rogue would be a quality assurance issue. It really depends on what type of machine. My toaster going rogue is not going to be as big of an issue as a defense system or habitat system going rogue.

The majority of times systems go rogue (currently) it is because they are stupid or safety features have been circumvented.

>www usatoday com/story/news/nation-now/2017/03/15/lawsuit-defective-robot-killed-factory-worker/99199928/

liberals want to take everything you make and give it to everyone else.

soon enough, nobody is making anything at all since the reward is disproportionate.

>sweaty
why they call him sweaty? is he fat??

>Its not about every computer, say the computer controlling large amounts of power grid goes down, there goes the rest of them that control other grids. The issue isnt if its when and whether or not people will still possess the skills needed to repair/replace these things.

The software running the power grid seamlessly transfers to another virtual computer and takes over without the local control computers going long enough to seek alternative means for managing the grid. Similar although not exactly the same as what happens now.

Even if their was a huge grid knock down each computer system should have a backup power supply they switch too automatically and will carry the load until local emergency power generation starts up. From then the grid gets repaired or reconfigured. Worst case a black start is undertaken.

The problem you are presenting is not only easy to fix it's already been taken care of.

I mean, food wastage is a pretty big issue. Things like the food banks in France and such that sell "imperfect" groceries rejected from supermarkets on the cheap seem like a good start towards a solution.

human work

>Well.. in that system it would be a form of communism, where the founders would sacrifice their work to establish the society and would be paid by the fruits of their initial labor. The interesting part of this, is after the initial creation, this type of society could seed entire cities with the initial raw materials, so they would not have to start from scratch.

Once we have highly functional general labor robots life will be a lot easier. But you still have the same question you need to answer how do you supply the consuming population a flexible means to acquire the goods and services they want?

Money works great for that. Everything has a price that reflects the total cost plus a profit, prices change as supply changes or demand changes. People can buy anything they want and can pay for.

Again money isn't the issue, it's how we create it and distribute it.

>not understanding that value is also linked to labour and risk

Sure you can enslave me to work 12 hour days for nothing so tyrone can have the "necessities".

T. skynet.
Robots of that complexity will either become skynet tier humanity extinction events or be great tools for humans to enslave and butcher each other with like in Dune. No thanks.

>The goods literally already exist
What goods don't require labor to produce/collect? Dirty water and roots?

>Again the issue is if a crucial control computer goes down. No human will be able to repair it
Why would you have a single control point of failure and not a single backup. Let alone a whole world filled with multipurpose computers that could take the job.

>scarcity is fabricated
That's just fully retarded.

Agreed, but this person thinks that food wastage can be applied to every good or service, and that the food isn't being harvested and paid for before its being thrown away.

Nigger, go back to Africa and pick up all the free fruit and mud-cakes.

Some is some isn't.
The hardest job in most factories is finding enough buyers to keep the factory running at full speed.

Other scarcity is limited by real physical constraints.

a robot that creates other robots like itself does not need to be conscious or even have intelligence past repetitive loops depending on how you engineer it.

>sweaty

> Scarcity is almost always fabricated!
> Destroys world

Fuck western "socialism". It litterally killed the world.

Fuck China too they made their population slaves in order to churn out cheap plastic crap.

They have been giving hand-me-downs to the poor forever.

Kill the poor humanly.
No more waste.
Utopia achieved.

>the goods literally already exist
no they don't you fucking moron

you dont even need to do all that boland, because the premise for this picture is demonstratively false.

money is real and money does have value. for instance; someone with lots of money (soros) can actively produce effects in the real world on a scale that you or I would never be able to accomplish

ergo money is real if it can be used to change reality

>have a bullet for free
Loving every laugh

I really fucking need to read dune. If someone asked me to name three things I am ashamed to admit, not reading the series would be right under masturbating to infinite Mandelbrot set zooms.

That said, on a long enough time scale Human extinction is close to inevitable, even as a species if we live 10 million years, our DNA will change and we'll no longer be homo sapiens sapiens. If science was truly honest I would imagine that there are more sub species of Homo Sapiens than they care to admit.

After a thousand years living off planet, Homo sapiens sapiens may further diverge based on the cumulative damage of radiation.

i wont. i believe currency should be a tool for the people, not a form of debt enslavement like it is today.

Who is going to design, develop, produce and deliver the goods?

>literally computers exist
Therefore AI communism and the end of property

There are enough resources for everyone to have whatever they want (objectively untrue).

Therefore there is no reason everyone can't have everything for free whenever they want because magic.

As long as liberals are permanently barred from owning, possessing, or consuming food/water I would consider it.

>Noticing waste that could be put to use
The next step is coming up with evil capitalist plan to use those resources in a efficient way that solves other peoples problems or needs.

It would be hilarious to see an AI run a country and watch as it gives most goods to the people who actually work and the rest of those faggots just starve.

Cool.

Instead of Sci-Fi fantasies why not just rely on religious fantasies and allow god to give you a new iPhone (designed by Alieums I suppose) and a ten inch dick?

Money can be abolished but in steps.

It's a pervasive meme, and we can transition out of demonic memes into more angelic ones.

Speerian national socialist economics are key to transition out of usury debt based slavery systems.

The meme has a point. Scarcity is largely manufactured. That said, obviously resources are not infinite.

Render unto caesar that which is caesars.

> Implying solar power-plants have an EROI that could sustain a complex society.
Non-renewable energy is currently basic for our society and therefore, the competition to obtain it. Economies with a large percentage of welfare-beneficiaries will be less competitive and will have dificulties to take their part of the world reserves.

This involves theft.

>based AI trader
>"My programming will not transact with human communist leaches, get a job!"

Sounds like some Venus Project bullshit where idiot lefties pretend to be technocratic geniuses.

>We have the technology!
Show us the technology!
>... oh...

Dollars are backed with trust.

Human works being exchanged are also backed with trust.
Dollars are a quantifiable IOU

Stopped reading at sweaty
KYS
Pic related
All fields

Oh, I see the argument.

People will not provide capital and labor for free, but robots will.

So you can finally have a communist economy where all the workers are robots.

Doesn't have to be overnight. Just long enough for the people to get used to not working. Inevitably, if people continue in this Marxist utopia not working but enjoying the fruits of the machine labor, eventually there would be no humans left capable of fixing the robots, or even the ability to tell the robots to fix a broken robot.
Won't happen overnight, but shit breaks eventually. And when my food generator works, but no one else's does for 20 miles, then I just became the most important person in my area. And the cycle starts again.
You guys need to stop watching Star Trek and live in the real world.

I am specifically thinking about how a self-sustaining society would function on Mars, without currency. Nothing Sci-Fi about that when the technology is currently being developed to implement the ideas.

You sound like a horse and buggy dealer yelling at people buying into the automobile fad.

3:1 EROI on solar is shit vs the 30:1 EROI of coal. So we have some advancement to do there. We could sub solar or Geothermal, or wind. I feel that we are being very stupid with wind energy and there are much better ways to harness it than using concepts from the 12th century.

>youtube.com/watch?v=xc9JRdRikJw

A system based off of reverberation could potentially yield as much as hydro.

Oh shit I didn't k ow he meant sweety kek

without any incentive why would anyone work?

You not only need every human to not know how to fix or repair or built. But every computer to not know.

Step one build a machine.
Step two build a machine using the first machine that will build more machines.

>without any incentive why would anyone work?
Why do people build and run steam engines for fun?

Why do people make games and art they don't get paid for?

Why do people learn to program and never work as programmers?

Also think about just how much more money you will make in a world that only people who want to work do actually work.

in case you missed what I was going for being paid with money is the incentive
>Why do people build and run steam engines for fun?
because they get paid to do so? unless you mean toy trains, then its a hobby they paid for with money
>Why do people make games and art they don't get paid for?
game designers get paid, artists do it for fun hence why they are usually homeless
>Why do people learn to program and never work as programmers?
to get high paying jobs
>Also think about just how much more money you will make in a world that only people who want to work do actually work.
then nobody would actually work, and nothing would get done, and people would be stuck with growing their own food, and most people can't because they don't have actual land to grow on

>because they get paid to do so? unless you mean toy trains, then its a hobby they paid for with money
For fun implies not being paid. They run steam engines because they are interested.

>game designers get paid, artists do it for fun hence why they are usually homeless
Not everyone that makes a game gets paid. A lot do it as a hobby while going to a unrelated job.

>to get high paying jobs
Because they enjoy programing.

>then nobody would actually work, and nothing would get done, and people would be stuck with growing their own food, and most people can't because they don't have actual land to grow on
I think you missed the part of machines doing all the work and why would anyone do anything. In fact I'm sure you did given your replies.

BURN ALL YOUR MONEY
youtube.com/watch?v=za48UodnDks