Islamic reform general /irg/

We need to meme islamic reform into existence

it would help advance western society and would make shitskins less irritating

Other urls found in this thread:

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muʿtazila
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mevlevi_Order
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yunus_Emre
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sufism
foreignpolicy.com/2016/11/02/meet-chinas-state-approved-muslims-hui-linxia-beijing-compromise/
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I agree
Islam needs to reform itself

Do you believe reigious reform is even possible in 2017?

checked

check'd, and if we meme hard enough it might be possible

cha cha cha is what they will say user cha cha cha

Islam is a religion of anti feminism
Somehow we are not down with this

its worth a shot desu

>islam
>not religion of peace
WHAT?!!! HAS Sup Forums LIED TO MEEE??? FUCKING AGAIN???? REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

feminism supports it fampai

Part of me just wants to sit back and laugh my ass off as the feminazis subject themselves to the ultra-patriarchal Muslim goat fucking terrorists. But another part of me realizes that then there would be race mixing and everyone knows race mixing is evil.

I think we have to seduce muslims with an alternative and hopeful vision of the future. A future of technology and science and futuristic sci fi coolness.

Islam is not cool. It offers nothing but sadness and death. Any muslim with an ounce of brain cells should see this and reject islam if we give them a better alternative.

i know youre just memeing, but please show me how they are peaceful

or possibly the chance to return to when they were scientific pioneers

But user, infidels aren't human. IS DEGENERATE!

Islam is a shit religion and I fully support this meme war

fucking sandniggers rape women and fuck goats

...

>or possibly the chance to return to when they were scientific pioneers
le scientist muzzie meme

never happened. muslims are goat brained animals.

...

...

granted it was only really discoveries on how light works, but it might help

...

WE NEED TO DO THIS FOR KEKISTAN REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

we could raid the islam discord and try to push reform

This

check'd

No.

>CTR

>reform
Sounds incredibly fucking Jewish. You white fear Islam because it destroys everything you falsely praise. Sluts, fags, jews and trannies deserve nothing but death, and cucks have lost this idea due to jewish influence and their "reforms" of your once great religion. The west is a rotting, decadent, jewed, pozzed, godless, hellhole who will burn thanks to your "Reforms" and Islam will never fall for it.

but muhammed, muslims may actually be useful in society after reform

...

If reformation isn't possible on 2017 then neither is peaceful integration of Islam into modern society. It needs to reform or die and there is no room for anything else. Disgusting that it couldn't be contained in the sand with all the inbred retards where it belongs

So how do we do it gents?
By promoting Mu'tazila or Anatolian Sufiism?
Or by combining them both?
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muʿtazila
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mevlevi_Order
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yunus_Emre
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sufism

I honestly don't know what those are, but probably yes

Quick rundown?

Basically borderline buddhism

you know a good bit more than i do about this, which do you think would be the most beneficial to society as a whole

> advance western society

and what makes you think islam whats to be reformed?

here is real red pill.

ISLAM DOESN'T WANT TO REFORM

think about it for just one minute, it would be like asking a tiger to remove its claws, or cancer to "pls stop spreading!"

any part we would want reformed is because it is a threat to us.
so what advantage does islam have in removing its "strength"...?

multi wife policy leads to surplus of beta males
beta males are brainwashed with "72 virgins" to spread islam by force.
its a VERY effective system for them.
its the ideological version of cancer.

the next stop for islam and the west is either:
- peaceful submission (ironic!), this is what MP's are leading us to
or:
- all out war :/

there are no other options.
with 28% of births in the nhs in 2015 going to muslim mothers.
if we shut border today 100%, 0 migration.
then it is only 18 years until "the muslim youth" are the biggest voting block in our democracy.
they could legally vote in sharia.
legally vote our democracy
legally vote to destroy our culture.

WE ARE FUCKED
if were not standing up to it now.
whats going to change in 18 years?

your optimistic post just highlights how little you have thought this through and how much you underestimate how horrific the future is going to be.

for reference: Lebanon

checked

Sufiism
İt is universal which haves members from Sunii, Shia, and Alawite sects
They are also kinda mystic and incorporated many elements from pagans (such as Tengri and zoroastrian traditions) to Islam
While Mu'tazila rejects Quran being an eternal thing and Humans can get closer to Allah with rational thoughts

read this

>tl;dr bong tells us how we're fucked

if reform can turn catholics into nearly harmless christcucks, what do you think it can do to islam?

Oh and Sufiism also influenced by Buddhism

Wouldnt rationality help more than mysticicm?

literally nothing.

you've got a big black bull all up in your wife and your tapping him ont he shoulder as an after thought and saying "no anal right?!"

he's going to anal rape you wife.

reform of catholics has been going on for 300 years.

read my post again.
we have less than 18 years until islam gets on of the top 5 nuclear arsenals on the planet.

also:
islam doesn't have an notion of organisational structure, no papacy, no voice of authority on earth.

so where the catcholics in time can make amendments where needed, abortion, gays, etc...
islam just can't change, the quran IS the only interpretation, unreformable.

any notion of a change needed in "the perfect book" would spell utter disaster for islam, so as expected, no reform is planned, talked about or suggested.

the west has been kindly asking for reform for the last 800 years...
none has surfaced so far.
:/ being optimistic in this case is fool worthy.

The thing is both of them have different interpretation rather than having strict one
But yeah i guess you are right

...

islam doesn't have an notion of organisational structure, no papacy, no voice of authority on earth.
We had but Atatürk abolished it
I wish he didn't

though you have a few good points, i think that if islam were to reform,it could be possible for them to help with problems the world is facing. much like how christians are instead of going on a crusade in the poor, non-beleiving areas of the world, they help and provide humanitarian aid

also reform would make it easier to target ISIS

>We need to meme islamic reform into existence
>it would help advance western society and would make shitskins less irritating

We need to expel all Muslims from the west. Reforming Islam isn't our fucking job.

pls read this, like to know your thoughts.
specifically
> multi wife policy leads to surplus of beta males
> beta males are brainwashed with "72 virgins" to spread islam by force.

and
> WE ARE FUCKED

i'm just scared china will use sufiism as a weapon against the muslim world someday
foreignpolicy.com/2016/11/02/meet-chinas-state-approved-muslims-hui-linxia-beijing-compromise/

>Oh and Sufiism also influenced by Buddhism

Really not surprised. Islam does not have the internal resources to develop something like sufism so they had to steal it from somewhere. Either the early Christian mystic or the Buddhist.

>islamic reform

Why reform when you're winning?

what motivation do they have?
honestly?

if they carry on as they are, they take over europe in 20-30 years.

if they change, what then?

do you see how absurd this is?

> barbarians are in the city
> burning, raping, pillaging
> your standing around wondering if the barbarians can be civilised

ITS A BIT LATE FOR THAT

effectively, we've been at war with the middle east ideologically since the 1973 oil price hike.
all those extra billions flowing into the middle east was just turned into exporting wahhabism.

who did we borrow the money off to pay for the expensive oil?
the fucking middle east!!!!

half of london is owned by saudi royal family already, they have more land in london than the queen ffs!

Quatar royal family is the 2nd largest land owner in the uk after tesco.

>Reform
>Islam
That would be like trying to stop OP from sucking dick
Its Impossible

while you're not entirely wrong, due to US law we cant just get rid of people due to religion

i also dont see trudeau doing anything about it either

what we CAN do is try to push for reform in western culture, so islam would be less of a threat here

exactly this

> implying Christians didn't also steal shit from the pagans

if you only want to see this as an Us V Them issue then at least acknowledge that reform could weaken them and make it easier for us to be the winning side

...

> due to religion
thought about it, could be a simple fix.

the plan would be to change the definition of "religion" to exclude islam, by framing islam as an ideology.

not too tricky todo.
all hangs on these 3 points, which separates islam from other religions.

1. death to apostasy, should be obvous but any club you can join and never leave is more like a cult than a religion.

2. they make demands of non-believers, "because i'm a muslim, you have to X, Y and Z". this makes them fundamentally incompatible with secular states.

3. their holy book makes political claims, namely world caliphate is only way to run the world, all muslims must strive for world caliphate. this means, unless the whole world submits to islam, there will NEVER be peace.

once these 3 points are CLEARLY highlighted, then it shows how islam is not like other religions, and should be classed more like nazism, or cults.

we would ask for the changes, they would refuse, we would then change classification to ideology and ban across the western world.

END OF

>if they change, what then?
>do you see how absurd this is?

It's not completely absurd in so far as the people that make up Islam may not have any desire to actually live in a society that realize what Islam actually is. Most Muslims are utterly delusional on this point, somehow believing that their country of origin being Islamic has nothing to do with their wanting to be out of it.

The disconnect never the less indicate the possibility of reform, though I do not believe in it nor do I care for it. Muslims should be expelled, treated as enemies.

But Muslims do not merely care about the "victory" (what victory?) of their team.

>while you're not entirely wrong, due to US law we cant just get rid of people due to religion

And what do you believe to be more realistic: to change the law of a single country or the religion of 1.6 billion people in which we have no authority what so ever?

There's a greater probability of the west ending life on earth by detonating all of its nuclear arsenal than there is of having an Islamic reform. Not only this, we do not actually truly want an Islamic reform. What we want is for them to be gone. The "need" of an Islamic reform is a problem that is strictly and solely caused by their presence in the first place.

Foreign bodies always need to be eliminated.

Why do Muslims always think that we give a shit about Christians, or about any other crime committed by anybody else for that matter?

I don't even know why the fuck you're talking to me.

I won't be suprised if Chinese creates their own version of Sufii caliph
They could do same thing that Saudis did and open up their religious schools in Turkic, Pakistan, African, and SEA countries

>reform it
Just push hijabi cuck porn, it'll implode within 30 years

Sufism is decadent it lead to the collapse of the Muslim world

california, and other liberal majority areas wouldnt let this happen, but it be worth presenting to supreme court

>Islam
>reforming itself

The slavs tried to push this meme to the ottoman, guess what happened after that?

>implying we have yet seen Islam's final form

yes i admit, asking the barbarians to pls stop raping your wife would certainly benefit you at the cost of them.
again, i'm not sure why they would listen?

i think you need to revaluate what a "success scenario" might tangibly look like.

i'd say, a VERY best case, 5-10 years... 1-2 million dead across europe.
and thats IF we submit to islam nicely.

think if we fought ww2 again now.
but this time there are already 5-8 million possible enemies already inside the country.
and there are no allies to help, because the same thing is happening there.

paris has riots in 20 districts right now.
you can say its because of x,y or z as much as you like. the truth of the matter is civilization as we know it is imploding.

There's nuclear weapons now. WWIII means the end of the human race, which I'm perfectly fine with if it means the Muslims die.

I'd just like to remind everyone that this is happening because some desert dweller heard voices in his head.

mayor of london is a victory user.
the wont stop there.

yes many many many muslims are possibly very nice people.

but when it comes down to it, honestly when the bullets are flying, are they going to step out of their door to protect you or i over their kin?
they might even want to, but the threat of force is EVIL and will shut up even the bravest of soles.

again. what happened in Lebanon?

> The disconnect never the less indicate the possibility of reform
the general trend is NOT looking good.
maybe if this was back in the 50-60's talk of reform could have been suitable, talk of islamic universities wouldn't have been that far away.

unfortunately, since then, while we had our eye off the ball, islam, in general has gone backwards, and regressing FAST.
we can't even slow down the rate at which kids are radicalised in the uk, how are we going to force project over into saudi?

Just a example m8
Chill the fuck out

regardless, would they say anything is nazism was being taught?
it is literally NOTHING compared to islam. especially fundamental versions.

pass it at the same time as banning "muh nazis" or some thing, like "banning of groups harmful to cohesive society".

roaches survive nuclear blasts user ;__;

> There's nuclear weapons now.
it wont come to nukes until they are safely in the hands of muslims when they take control.

what are our leaders going todo nuke london? nuke paris? nukes are not useful in this case user.

if we have to nuke ourselves, its is EXACTLY the same approach as we have with cancer now.

"urm, radiation causes cancer, i know more radiation will fix it!"

if it can even close to nuking ourselves, it would be preferable if we gunned them down in the streets instead.

underrated

>the general trend is NOT looking good.

It's not. I don't consider Muslims people so I don't expect much from them. I've never seen a group of individual so deluded in my entire life. I didn't think it was possible. I'm just tired of them now.

>how are we going to force project over into saudi?

We don't and to be quite honest we don't even try. Our goal isn't to moderate THEM but to radicalize US. Paradoxically, radicalizing them might be a better mean of accomplishing this goal than pushing for the chimera of an impossible Islamic reform. The whole reform narrative is as much for the westerners as it is for the Muslims. It's the middle path between mass deportation and civil war and complete submission. It's an attempt at cohabitation, a desire to defend the dream of "togetherness", of "panmixia", of the abolition of all substantive differences between human being so as to bring about the end of conflict.

Like other attempts at utopia, it will not produce the expected result and will probably fail catastrophically.

I want what the Muslims have but for us. I want fanaticism for our side. The liberals are all telling us that we should take inspiration from Islam and I most certainly want to do just that.

One problem.

Nazis were never close to being a world majority.

"What did you just say infidel?"

In the very least, reform in burgerland may be possible

I'm no expert on the history of Lebanon, but I'm assuming it was already majority Muslim, or Jewish

That's the difference between the United States and Lebanon, we're not majority Muslim

As for Europe, you're probably right. I see little hope for them

my point with ww2 was.
in ww2 there were front lines.
the unspeakable horrow was "over there" somewhere, remote.

ww3 (more like european civil war) there are not going to be "front lines" so to speak, every town every city will be a target.

lets just wonder for 1 second.
how much damage could the muslims in europe do in just 24 hours if they thought they could?

the only reason i can talk to you now is because the power is still on because the muslims are in no rush.

if they wanted, with NOTHING we could do, they could beat europe into submission inside a month.
i'm not even sure if then our politicians would speak out against it.
at this stage they are looking less like loony lefties and more like paid shills for saudi.

did you really have to reply to your own post
this isnt Sup Forums we can see if its the same person

I can reform them into dirt if you want

Honestly, I hate the west so much I wouldn't even give a shit if we lost.
There's nothing to preserve. Something new must be build.

Yeah, something new must be "build", fucking tard actual.

good post.

> It's the middle path between mass deportation and civil war and complete submission.
i can see at least one of those 3 happening if not all 3.

the chances are:
- more islamic attacks
- tensions rise
- poland or somewhere snaps first
- pogroms, possible muslim deaths in streets, burn down ghettos.
- muslims protected by state and police.
- carries on for a bit
- more islamic attacks because more justified now "we woz oppressed and shit!"
- more backlash
- government HAS to step it to stop all out racial war
- start rounding up muslims into "safety camps"
- more islamic attacks
- no choice but to deport
- islamic countries don't want them, call this attack on islam
- we total war now
;__;

> "Something new must be build"


fucking leaf

>how much damage could the muslims in europe do in just 24 hours if they thought they could?

A lot. Why does it matter? It wouldn't be in their advantage to do so because while Muslims pretend that they're all about Allah the real gist of the matter is that, at an individual level, they want our accumulated social and physical capital. They want to live in a place where the government is reliable, the streets are safe, they can have good jobs, they can express themselves, they can trust their neighbors and so on and so forth. They're here to profit from us.

But they're also huge narcissists, and have been taught since the day they were born that they have the perfect system in their hand. The Muslim thus find himself in a permanent state of paradox: how is it that I, a Muslim with the perfect system, want to live in the land of the infidel, the worst of creature? This is the point at which Muslims lose their humanity. But their religion provide a ready generalization. They are not, you see, lechers and abusers of the good will of other, but rather colonizer and great conqueror spreading their perfect system to a new land.

So some of them will fight, I suppose, but most of them understand that they don't need to do anything to win, as our own stupidity is doing the job for them.

Never the less, their primary goal is to have better material condition. This is why I want to burn my own country down, and the whole of the west. I want these vermin to have nothing. I don't give a shit if they start to riot on a massive scale. It will make them miserable and their misery is what I want.

no you idiot they will just pretend to be peaceful and still blow shit up and rape your kids

we need to irradiate the middle east so those fuckers die off. turn that shit into radioactive glass.they call it the holy land lets make it look the part. i think radioactive glass sounds about right

how many of "muh 1.2 billion" would freely choose to stay in the religion if they were not threatened with force?

> "urm,... around 0"
thanks very much ;)

to show you how bad the west is with dealing with islam.
on the topic of the burka, west says.
"but we can't tell a women what to wear!"
and we loose argument.

instead,. should go with angle.

> we will not force any women to remove her burka, however,... that being said
> we ARE putting very strict punishment on anyone who forces women to wear the burka.
> and let it be clearly known, that no girl or women can be forced to cover herself in our country, and the state will protect her right to choose what to wear.

possibly follow it up with
> "what about the 1000 women who have been killed in the uk for honour killings because they chose to take off the vail!"...?

see what i mean?

>"i think radioactive glass sounds about right"

i think you don't understand the global repercussions of detonating a nuclear bombs

if you were seriously please commit sepuku

>implying forcing women into modesty isn't based af
Meanwhile degeneracy increases and we all go down in the sinking ship

I don't think you've thought about the victory conditions, user.

it was a secular state.
one of the gems of the middle east.

civil war in jordan meant 2-3 million muslims walked over the border into lebanon.

welcomed with open arms by christians, atheists and moderate muslims.
inside 5 years they gained control of the government, voted in their men and started the downward spiral.
within a few years, those same people who invited the muslims in, were being executed in the street by the hundred of thousands.

they still find mass graves in Lebanon now, say 5,000 christians all piled up.

now not a week goes by without a car bomb this or a suicide bomber that.
gone from secular state to literal arsehole of the middle east in 20 years.

People have been trying to reform Islam for 1400 years, they have failed. Islam will dominate, we will win.

bump

Don't fucking answer to him. Muslim like to bait with.

The only proper answer is: do it.

By the way -- and this is something that is shared by almost everybody on this board -- stop operating within a framework of universal morality. There's no debate to be had, no rational agent to speak to. Muslims aren't rational people. They're not individual who believe that the same morality that apply to you should apply to them, and so there's no use in trying to devise some kind of universal moral framework according to which Muslim women should or should not wear this or that, nor is there any people to speak to when making such arguments.

They don't give a shit about your moral principles. They have their own. They'll exploit yours and strangle you with them. The Islamic morality is strictly tribalistic, of the form "us" vs "them".

So there's no point in saying "Muslims are okay provided they do this or that or don't force their women", as this will then merely be a stepping stone for them to get to their end goal, which is to increase the number of Muslims in any given area. For some reason, this is the sum total wisdom of their system.

But the only proper reaction in the face of this kind of being is to say "Go fuck yourself. We will not tolerate you in any form, since any condition we stipulate will then be used by you so as to lie and take advantage of us."

That's the proper attitude in the face of an enemy.

sounds pretty bad, can i get an article?

And that's why a nuclear holocaust is actually perfectly acceptable.

It's okay because an angel told me while I was meditating in a cave.

there have been thousands of attempts to bomb/attack the harem, each and every one of them have failed. Why do you think that is?

Because it is under the protection of Allah

See what I mean? They don't talk like people. They don't say anything substantive. They repeat some unprovable bullshit strictly and solely to anger you. They're not people. They're agents of a virus, machine like creatures with a very simply mind.

you want to cover your missus go right ahead.
even the bacon shit i could take or leave it.

the main binding point for me is:
islam isn't even that interesting as a faith.
its dull, boring, like a 50 piece jigsaw.

i just couldn't live 1 year under their system.
i would blow myself up, NOT in the name of allah just to get away from their mindlessness.

no art, no culture, no reading anything not about islam, no questioning, no science, retards version of philosophy and so forth.

i would not, could not allow my mind to rot inside islam user.
the human condition would force me to break free of that bullshit.

i very much see it like slamming a heavy lid.
once islam takes over, thats it, human race is suck forever, paralyzed, we all die on this planet, humans die on this planet.

imagine what muslims would happily destroy given 24 hours i power, not just our buildings, but our culture also....
> Shakespeare, pfft no need for that.... BURN!
> James joyce who? BURN!
> Magna carta? pfft faggot! BURN!

you could erase the west completely in one or two generations, even historians wouldn't be able to find our trace.

"who made the TV? muslims!"
"who made the internet? muslims!"
"who was first man on moon? muslims!"