Religious people should be despised

Most atheists might say "there is no evidence for God, people who believe in him are dumb", but this is not my issue, people are born more or less intelligent than others anyway. My issue is that worshipping God is not just stupid, but IMMORAL.
Think about all the children who die in terrible agony around the world, maybe because of an illness or a natural disaster, even at the very moment you're reading this thread. Their parents are praying for them to be saved, but those children are going to die regardless. God won't save them. Why? There are only 3 possible explainations for this: God is impotent, God doesn't care, or it's all part of God's plan.
If God is impotent, it means he's not a god by definition, and therefore worshipping him is immoral.
If God doesn't care about people's suffering while having the means to easily help them, it means he is evil, and therefore worshipping him is also immoral.

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Other urls found in this thread:

clashdaily.com/2013/06/hypocrisy-warning-the-failure-of-atheism-and-the-modern-god-haters/
gotquestions.org/fear-and-trembling.html
asciisillyquestion.blogspot.com/2015/01/your-friendly-neighborhood-nihilist.html

If it's all part of God's plan, that means God is completely responsible for all the suffering in the world and for whether people are sent to Heaven or to Hell after their death; as if that wasn't enough, God sends people to Hell for simply not believing in him, which means that moral people will be sent to Hell just because of the circumstances they were born in and that God created (e.g. being born in a country where everyone around you happens to believe in the "wrong" religion), while even the most immoral people (e.g. a serial killer who raped, tortured and slaughtered countless children throughout his life) can go to Heaven as long as they believe in God and "redeem" before dying: this makes God even more evil than in the case where he just doesn't care, therefore worshipping him regardless of it is immoral as well.
In conclusion, religious people should be despised because they choose to worship a God that doesn't deserve to worshipped in the least, which causes them to become psychopaths who would commit the worst atrocities against fellow human beings just because their God told them to (slavery, rape, child abuse, witch burning, genocide, suicide bombing... the list is endless).

P.S. No amount of "le fedora memes xD" will make what I said any less true.

You really did slurped on that Enlightenment cock, didn't you? This is meme tier, m8.

slurp*

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Here's the problem with this argument, you're view of "that is evil," is competently based on your, fallible feelings. You are attempting to tell you're creator what is good or bad when he, and only he, determines that.

Jeremiah 18:5-11 says "5 Then the word of the Lord came to me: 6 “O house of Israel, can I not do with you as this potter has done? declares the Lord. Behold, like the clay in the potter's hand, so are you in my hand, O house of Israel. 7 If at any time I declare concerning a nation or a kingdom, that I will pluck up and break down and destroy it, 8 and if that nation, concerning which I have spoken, turns from its evil, I will relent of the disaster that I intended to do to it. 9 And if at any time I declare concerning a nation or a kingdom that I will build and plant it, 10 and if it does evil in my sight, not listening to my voice, then I will relent of the good that I had intended to do to it. 11 Now, therefore, say to the men of Judah and the inhabitants of Jerusalem: ‘Thus says the Lord, Behold, I am shaping disaster against you and devising a plan against you. Return, every one from his evil way, and amend your ways and your deeds."

That wasn't my point. Did you? What have you been reading? Do you know that to learn about a subject you actually have to read the arguments of the other side?

Take it to

Damn it, *your creator.* Should have spell checked it.

I need some background on this pic. I have not interneted enough it seems. What the fuck is going on on the upper right?

>God is impotent, God doesn't care, or it's all part of God's plan.
If God acted we wouldn't have a moral dichotomy. Tell me, do you plead with The Good ask it to save you from sickness or do you go and seek a doctor and proclaim sufficient health good?
Do you hold Good to a moral standard because it provides a light by which you can see Evil?
>P.S. No amount of "le fedora memes xD" will make what I said any less true.
You're just stupid.

>le God is the same as a person meme and I know everything about him
Please kill yourself immediately, not only are you immoral, you're stupid.

>God may throw newborn babies into Hell to be tortured for ETERNITY, but in the Bible he stopped slaughtering people at random for a second and said that he's good, so he can't be evil!

>If God acted we wouldn't have a moral dichotomy. Tell me, do you plead with The Good ask it to save you from sickness or do you go and seek a doctor and proclaim sufficient health good?

If your god was truly all he was cracked up to be he could have everyone understand a good/evil dichotomy without rubbing his creation's faces into the dirt and watching them suffer.

Preachin' to the choir man - religious people seem to have a problem with diferrentiating what's right from what's mandated by their religion. - As fas as they're concerned this is the same thing, and those books have some crazy shit therein. You can never really be sure a god-wad is fully on-side. The golden rule is self evident, helping others IS in your self interest, and that's not bad, and you shouldn't need to be leaned on by some omnipresent phantasm.

I suggest you reread my post, if you won't or not capable, TL:DR God can do what he want to you because He created you, not the other way around. I don't like it in any facet but I believe it to be truth. TL:DR Why would a potter fret for destroying his work?

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>background

>Left
Nietzschean atheist's argument against the modern atheist.

They kept the slave morality, anti-rationalism, egalitarianism, and worship of a higher power of Christianity under a different name.

clashdaily.com/2013/06/hypocrisy-warning-the-failure-of-atheism-and-the-modern-god-haters/

>Upper Right
Edgy Nihilists.
Antinatalists - immoral to have children and bring them to suffering existence.

Voluntary Human Extinction Movement- be it in the name of the Environment, the lulz, or some philosophical justification, ending all breeding

Nihilism - the philosophy of Nothingness and Eternity

>Upper Left
DiaMats- Marxists, Muties, AnSyns, and more

Atheism Plus - Atheism, now with manshaming and whiteshaming! Learn those Privilege Stacks, goy.

Secular Humanism - because denying that the stats used by gun control advocates are methodologically sound makes one a Christcuck apparently.

>Bottom Left
Not even wanting to take a peek at Chesterton, Spinoza, or Aquinas, nor even anti-religious arguments from Feuerbach and Nietzsche to Harris and Dawkins, these are lazy ass atheists and agnostics that shiftlessly absorb Reddit memes without actually engaging in metaphysical discussion.

>Bottom
God no real right?
But behavioral and cognitive traits definitely have no heritable component.

>Bottom Right
Conventions, speches, book sales, oh my!
The "God no real" industry is a'boomin.

I didn't quite understand the doctor part, but you seem to have the presupposition that it doesn't matter how many atrocities God may commit against humans, as long as he's God he can't be anything but good, because he decides what's good and evil and not the humans who actually have to suffer endlessly through his actions.

Face it, you're worshipping a being that is worse than any devil. I wouldn't be surprised if you already turned into a psychopath.

So you can't judge your parents either just because they created you? Even if, say, they tortured and abused you throughout your life? "They're my parents, they must be good"... Looks like a case of Stockholm syndrome.

So when judgement comes, I hope self-righteous cunts like you are BTFO like insects without argument.
>God may throw newborn babies-
>WOOSH

>Children, obey your parents in the Lord, for this is right. 2 “Honor your father and mother”—which is the first commandment with a promise— 3 “so that it may go well with you and that you may enjoy long life on the earth.”
Ephesians 6:1–2

White Baptist churches is the south are a thing of beauty.

Just saying.

That's an elaborate strawman, I have to say. Even though it might work for a good percentage of atheists, I'm none of those 5 things.

kudos, m8

I was not expecting such a detailed post. I will definitely check some of these to not be caught unprepared.

The Upper-right are definitely the worst ones, though.

m8, don't debate him. He's obviously unprepared.

Just point fingers and laugh.

Well, I sure hope you got the right God out of the thousands of them and followed all the precise rules, or you're gonna end up keeping me company.

Yeah, definetely Stockholm syndrome.

*sigh* No, though your parents birthed you, they ultimately did not create you. God put His image in you before your parent did. It's said that He knew you even before the Earth was created. All were created by Him, so everyone must live by His rules.

Thing is, not only is it nonsensical, but morally repugnant. Luckily one need only look around you to behold God's impotence; and what is more impotent than a figment?

Gracias, doctor

I cannot, we are called to to bring others to Him, by just laughing at him, we are dishonoring God. Also, it makes us look like assholes.

>says the guy who still hasn't made one argument or explained what I should have read

Nonsensical? How so? Also morally regnant is a subjective statement.

>the right God out of the thousands of them and followed all the precise rules

That's not how Christianity works, and Christians get a break in Islam if that post-Christ heresy happens to turn out to be true. Then there are the eastern religions, where I'll be reincarnated as a bug or whatever no matter what.

You're a shithead more interested in feeling smug and le euphoric than humbling yourself and accepting free salvation, because you think you would run the universe better than God Himself. Fuck off.

Oh right. Well, if He knew me even before the Earth was created and all were created by Him, why is it still so apparent to me that He must be either impotent or evil? Couldn't he give me the knowledge necessary to believe otherwise? I'm supposedly here only to worship him anyway, my life, suffering and eternal destiny in Hell don't seem to matter.

I think it more likely that God was made in the image of man. The Bible, and your tentes of faith are riddled with the fingerprints of mortal hubris and pre-scientific ignorance. What say you in the light of day? Do you believe The Bible is the word of God? Do you believe Jesus is The Son Of God, who is God incarnate who had to sacrifice himself in order for himself to forgive original sin? Do you understand that your faith is fundamentally no different than some pagan sacrifice cult? That it is highly derivative from previous unrelated practices? How do you justify yourself? "Faith" I suppose.

Pearls before swine, brother

Simple.
When you've done things right, no one will be sure you've done anything at all.
Helping one person means someone else is getting stepped on in some way, big or small.

>why won't you just stop me from torturing you for eternity! all I need is a little compensation, like worshipping me for the rest of your life
I know enough about the mafia to consider this kind of behaviour repugnant.

you probably are also an statist
>If the ruler of the country is so smart why doesn't he control my every move so i don't have to thin and just be happy?

freedom of choice comes with the responsibility of choosing. If humans chose wrong it's their fault.

>Fuck you and everything about you
>Now let me in your house forever
That's you.

God himself violates the golden rule; treat others as you would be treated. Any leader who violates their own code on principal is a despicable one, God is obviously a fiction, hence my reference to nonsense - if he were not he would be self-evident, if he indeed existed as sescribed in The Bible - where he appears as a burning bush, and sends down dreams and angels - or are you forced to re-paint this as mere allegory disguising some nebulous mystical truth? - This would be a perversion of the original literal intent, you know, and compromises the faith's worldview with innate inconsistency. I am afraid I suspect one cannot be religious and truly sane, which is fine, but keep it under your hat, and don't expect others to live by your rules.

>*sigh*
Youre a fucking faggot lmao

>all of these entry-level arguments
it's like watching kindergarteners try to discuss microbiology

Worship = uncritical love.

Not unconditional love, uncritical love.

This removes your moral agency and can only ever be as moral as the object of your worship.

But because you are worshipping you are uncritical and therefore deserve no credit for worshipping.

But if your object of worship is anything less than perfect the blame for all their imperfections accrues to you since you declined to exercise your moral agency and be critical.

So it's a case of you get all the blame but none of the credit.

Therefore worship is immoral.

False dilemma fallacy, just because you see one or another does not mean there isn't a third option. I understand your though process, heavens know I've gone though it too, this isn't a subject easy to grasp. The point to life and these questions are as a test, we choose to believe Him or not. There by we are lead into heaven or hell.

Truly, a world intentionally designed to be so, would only be made be a devil. Better to be the product of random infinitesimal possibiity than such a malevolent depraved godhead.

The concept of rebuilding yourself, from the inside out, making yourself a better person, is not a human construct. To illustrate my point, the Islamist put their women in covering clothing so they don't lust after them. God says to fix yourself instead.

I'm supposed to be his child, yet he kicked me out of his house and thrown into the mud. Not only is he now laughing at my suffering from his window, but if I don't beg him to take me back by worshipping him for everything he does he will also set me on fire and keep laughing at me from his window. How can you have no dignity in front of such evil?

I sighed because I did literally sigh, I though that was an already understood concept. In hindsight, that was a poor call on my part.

>you probably are also an statist
Not at all, but I'm no anarchist either. Anyway, you can't really have freedom of choice when your whole life was already decided by God when he created you.

I understand but he's intellectually dishonest. There's really no much good in arguing with him, as we know he's not going to change his mind.

You're making a lot of faith based claims, friend. The real salient point is; why should any of us open our minds to YOUR idea of God, as opposed to some other schmuck's? There's a Rastaman on my street, who's to say he's not right and you're just another poor idiot waving your hands around worshipping heathen spirits? Because you really can't tell, and neither can I.

it's said that everyone will be judged by the light they have. if you know what's good and bag that how God will judged you, if you think you are doing good but end up doing bad it's my believe that he will take it into account.

>I'm supposed to be his child, yet he kicked me out of his house and thrown into the mud. Not only is he now laughing at my suffering from his window, but if I don't beg him to take me back by worshipping him for everything he does he will also set me on fire and keep laughing at me from his window. How can you have no dignity in front of such evil?
God never did any of that, you might be equating something that happened to you with god action. he merely gave you the freedom to choose.

But that's just a choice driven by fear. What kind of benevolent God would reward cowardice and punish courage?

Maybe, maybe not, I'd like to think most humans as intelligent creatures, who can change through honest conversation, but maybe I'm the fool in this debate, but I'm willing to look like one even for the minute chance to bring someone to God.

Of course it's a human construct - your claim is baseless, people have always aspired to be better - better relative to other people, or their prey. You are hopelessly mired in mysticism, nothing you say has even a whiff of being based in research or reality. How do you justify believing this? - Where is the evidence? - If there is no evidence you have nothing, just hopeless empty lies.

Then you are an ideologue - and the only converts you get will be the desperate, who would take any comfort offered - the truth is, you are a predator, and leading people into foolish cultism will not help them - it will never help you.

>Having good parents who gave you Christian values growing up, and respecting them for that, is Stockholm Syndrome.
okie doke

Because historically Christianity has brought the greatest changes to humanity. When Rome fell, Christians ran into Rome to help, same with the black plague in Europe, same with a ton of hospitals in the US (e.g. Methodist, St. Jude, ect.) I believe we have brought good change to the world, helped our fellow man, more consistently than other religions.

>if you think you are doing good but end up doing bad it's my believe that he will take it into account
As I said in the OP, that's the kind of thinking that creates psychopaths like suicide bombers. You're only taking into account what's good for you and for God (or what you believe it is), not for other people, and that's immoral.

>My issue is that worshipping God is not just stupid, but IMMORAL.
Nice spook fag

What if they gave you Christian values growing up WHILE torturing and abusing you throughout your childhood, would you still consider them exempted from any criticism?

This kind of fucked moral relativity is why you atheist scum deserve nothing but nuclear holocaust.
>doesn't understand the concept of conditional election and grace
>lectures people about reality
The fact that you don't understand doesn't make God's judgment any less valid. God isn't restrained by the same things as you or I.
Most people ever have been religious, people do crazy things, ergo religious thinking is crazy. Do I have your notanargument.mollymeme down right?

And you have no evidence on the contrary. That being said, if it's reviled that God does not exist, than I will cease my faith, truth must be first. That being said, historically the greatest scientists were, at a minimum, theists. Only until recently did that change, and it's the Christians fault for burying their heads into sand.

You have a myopically shortsighted view of the human race's timeline. - The emergence of a Hebrew-Manichiean heresy is nothing compared to the discovery of agriculture, the taming of the horse, the invention of the wheel, the rise of the first kingdoms, the invention of the engine, the computer and the plane - Compared to that, what does Christianity really have over any other faith? - And don't try to pin all western scientific progress on the church, - That is arguable, but doesn't prove your religious philosophy.

I've changed my mind on many things since I discovered Sup Forums, so that's just another non-argument. You are sure not gonna change my mind if you're not even trying... But I guess you're not good enough for even doing that much.

1. They didn't abuse me so not going to spend time on that strawman.
2. Much as God does many things that man can not understand, my parents probably did many things for my own good that I was highly critical of at the time; that criticism was also invalid.

Children don't know anything, compared to God, we are like children.

picunrelated

You do know that the bible pushes us to find the truth, right?

gotquestions.org/fear-and-trembling.html

>You're only taking into account what's good for you and for God (or what you believe it is), not for other people, and that's immoral.
Not really, it's more about moral relativism. if you decide to ignore what's good for other while thinking that such is immoral then you are doing something wrong. But if think you are doing something right them there's a need to view thing in a different angle. if somebody is suffocating and you tring to do cpr and end up killing him with a heart attack is different than you seeing someone choking and killing him with and triyng to make it look like and accident. Intent matters and even the court system acknowledges that.

ps: if you want the passage in the bible that support my theological claims i can give it to you just give me a moment because i don't have it in my memory.

Where is the proof that your jealous desert god created OP?

So were the temples of the Olympian Pantheon.

You are providing philosophy 101 tier arguments and it's obvious you never read anything written by actual Christians on these topics. No, I won't even try.

You commit a logical fallacy by asking me to disprove something for which there is no proof - if I were looking for a man who was not there, would he leave tracks? If you are making the positive assertion that God exists, then the onus is on you to provide evidence confirming this - otherwise, your position is unsupported by any verifiable claim, and can be discarded without lengthy consideration - this is called "burden of proof" and is employed in all proper forums of debate - you don't have to disprove unsubstantiated claims, they have not fulfilled the necessary criteria to be taken more seriously than any other nonsense statement which might be taken on faith - for instance "I am a talking Gambian pouch-rat who shitposts on Sup Forums".

Another pasta user here
Le "you can't comprehend god by definition so you can't comprehend absolute morality" meme is so fucking despiteful
If it exists, I don't fucking mind what kind of a masterplan he has, he makes billions of people suffering (basically any person alive) still gives no shit and goes on with his agenda. Fuck you, fuck god, I'll never believe in the existence of such a foulish being. If there were ever going to be a god, in my perspective that being could be me and myself only

Probably for the best - writers within a movement seldom grasp it's core weaknesses, hence their being "in the movement" and not out. For instance - Don't readily believe anything a Scientologist tells you about scientology - they are indoctrinated.

So if I punch you in the face, I should expect you to say thanks and start worshipping me? People act based on their circumstances and experiences and God should know this, there is no evidence for a soul controlling a magic switch that will make you unconsciously do good or bad things on a universal scale. Also, if you act solely on the base of your personal belief on what's good for you and God (a.k.a. religious thinking), that kind of thinking IS crazy as it will make you commit all kinds of atrocities with no regard for the well-being of others. Sure, atheists have done crazy things too, but they were either nihilists or were trying to do something good for everyone in their own way; I still have to see an atheist suicide bomber.

Again, changing yourself first. Even if just followed by a non believer, it's been proven time and time again to be more beneficial to humans. For example, marrying one partner and sticking with them not only leads to happier marriage but also more financial secure. Time magazine printed a great article but I can't find it online. But look at the black community in America, they're suffering because of the spike in fatherless homes. The bible say's not to get drunk because it continually leads to bad situation (e.g. rape, car accidents that lead to death). Not sleeping with multiple people make the chance to get STD to near 0%. The homosexual community is destroying itself because of my previous sentence. Also, charity, let's not forget that we give the most to help others.

>If there were ever going to be a god, in my perspective that being could be me and myself only
This is what leads to your motivated reasoning. You want this to be true. In fact, everybody does. It was the core tenet of the Enlightenment. And that's why the West sucks now.

So no matter what they do, your parents can never be criticized, not even in your adulthood, ok. By the way that was not a strawman but a simple example, I was not referring to your parents. I could have equally mentioned a kid that was conceived and raised by a serial killer and a robber: that kid should never be able to criticize his parents in your opinion.

>why won't you just stop me from torturing you for eternity
>implying that's not just your hatred of God keeping you away
Western Christianity really warped Church teachings

And it's not alone in this regard - temperance is championed by most modern faiths, and social ills are as old as social structures themselves. - You should read up on other faiths too, particularly the Zoroastrians and Hindus, very interesting stuff, but for different reasons - the first is a faith from wich Christians borrowed much, and the second is perhaps the largest remaining faith that is truly "heathen" polytheistic, highly mutable, yet complex, and more ancient than your own faith by perhaps three times over.

>fuck you, fuck god, I'll never believe in the existence of such a foulish being.
>Values and intelligence are perfectly linked
>Appealing to emotion while crying out you're intelligent.

It's his hot Latin blood, are they not a people of immense unwieldy passions, who's puissance sometimes defies all powers of speech?

My devotion is to God, my responsibility to heretics is not to ensure their well-being but to spread the word of the Lord.
I do not worship you, because you are not worthy of worship. If you committed a crime against me I would handle it as I would handle any offense by another man, God can not commit offense against his own creation.
>I still have yet to see an atheist suicide bomber
>Implying the religious beliefs of suicide bombers are sincere.
I don't have a widespread enough knowledge of the history of suicide attacks to useful comment on the substance of that argument. Welcome to look at a source if you have one, it's difficult though, no membership rolls of the church of atheism.
My parents are not infallible as God is, they deserve my respect and obedience insofar as it doesn't contradict the laws of the Father above. God can not be criticized, in my view, so I dont; I am very much in favor of the laws of man which allow you to be heretical.

Hmm. What I said doesn't entail moral relativity (though I don't believe in absolute morals, that is not material)

>*usefully
>*-welcome *+would love
>*for the church of atheism

wasn't trying hard to get formatting right but man I fucked that one up

If God is not a being, then your argument fails.
God is not a being.
Therefore, your argument fails.

P.S. For future reference, this is not what Syrian refugees look like:

You don't have the judgment to know what is good, you can't use logic to displace an absolute good.

i believe he was using an analogy hi didn't mean it in the literal sense. beside God only created us, we were the ones that fucked up , every atrocity was done by our will.

But as a LeVeyan Satanist I pretty much embody the pic you posted.

Camus was right but misguided, freedom from the kingdoms of man and freedom from Judgment are not equivalent.
>LeVeyan Satanist
Now you're just memeing, you've offended me.

I am my own God and all I have is my own judgement.

To the point, I'm offended because I may be an idiot; but I'm not insincere.

>dude you should love god he created you lol
>*bible is full of stories of god destroying entire cities just because of one persons sins, killing innocent people for breaking some autistic rule they didnt even know about and exterminating the entire human race*

dont know why satanists think they are so edgy when satan does fuck all anything in the bible, god is the real psycho

>I get my religious arguments from cartoons and Jon Stewart.
1. You have no idea what the fuck you're memeing about.
2. What is a metaphor?

I am not insincere

This was written by me:

asciisillyquestion.blogspot.com/2015/01/your-friendly-neighborhood-nihilist.html

>my responsibility to heretics is not to ensure their well-being
When you start considering heretic anyone who doesn't agree with you, that's where you become a psychopath. Any atrocity is allowed as long as you believe your god will be satisfied.
>Implying the religious beliefs of suicide bombers are sincere.
How do you know? What if they're more sincere than yours? I'm sure you too have doubts about some things.
>My parents are not infallible as God is
But what if he's infallible in his evilness? He throws infants into the pits of Hell after all. You might not criticize him while cowardly begging for his mercy and maybe not incur in his wrath, but you'd still be immoral and deserving to be despised.

did you even read the bible? he basically only punished those who he considered his people and knew who he was. The exception being Sodom and Gomorrah, but those were people who decided to rape anyone who they found pretty, they killed as if they were nothing, we fucking named immoral acts after one of their cities for goodness sake.

Sorry I didn't read the thread. Can one of you create a meme of Rockefeller dying With Buffet and Soros struggling with repentence

>asciisillyquestion.blogspot.com/2015/01/your-friendly-neighborhood-nihilist.html
Reading this now, already I feel like I'll end up agreeing I'm somewhat in this camp
>Just being a Nihilist is a insult to many who aren't.
but I don't think it's rational for me to be insulted.

It's just difficult for me to imagine how you arrived at the conclusions that you have, its utterly alien to me.

I apologize for inaccurate labeling you as insincere if those are your beliefs, misguided as I feel they are, but LaVeyan Satanism is certainly a meme in our countryor was, I doubt many GenXers could identify it,) never met one IRL who wasn't just xxFUCKgod198_xx