Islam general Sup Forums edition

Let's talk about the "holy quran", I just started reading it, I'm now at 2:114
did any of you read it?

I've got the feeling this is all a pro muslim remake of the bible
There's parts where I had to laugh while reading because it's so ridiculous
It says that the jews changed gods words in the torah to deceive others so that they can't read gods true words
It says abraham and his son built the kaaba in mekka
It says abraham was a muslim and his children were also muslims
It says jesus was a muslim

And yes it repeatedly says that christians and jews follow the wrong religion and go to hell, why is this book even allowed? It's worse than Mein Kampf.

give me your favorite suras and quotes

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dont know about the torah, but there is 2 versions of the bible, the old testament and the new testament, so things have been changed.

to muslims, if you believe in god and muhammad, you are a muslim, and they believe everyone is born a muslim.

well im pretty sure all abrahamic religions claim if you disbelieve you go to hell.

so you are a muslim?

>dont know about the torah, but there is 2 versions of the bible, the old testament and the new testament, so things have been changed.
yes of course things have been changed, but the quran says jews changed the bible to keep others from connecting with god. that's a bit different.

>to muslims, if you believe in god and muhammad, you are a muslim, and they believe everyone is born a muslim.
the quran is the word of god, in the quran abraham says literally to god "i am a muslim"

>well im pretty sure all abrahamic religions claim if you disbelieve you go to hell.
I don't know about what people originally thought, but today no one thinks that and no one (no normal person) takes the bible literally

this is not from the quran, its from hadith, which is man made, which is heresay that people wrote down.

that's quite obvious because the pic says it's not from the quran but from another book, muslim

The Quran says that whenever Muhammad had visions he would have convulsions, foam at the mouth and growl like a camel.
No other prophet had this
And his first wife thought that it was demonic possession.

Explain

I guess he was possessed by a demon or schizophrenic

I am currently not a muslim, i was born one, researched it, and feel its not for me. there is good and bad in it, which is why i left it, i cant believe 100% in Islam, so how can i be a muslim, there are definitely things that are crazy, apparently we are meant to believe in a story with a horse with wings and horns.

Muslims beleive that our god, created the torah, the bible, and the quran but the first two, people didnt follow gods word, so they believe god made the quran as the final form for the whole world.

Yes if you are muslim you believe one day the world will be ruled under shariah law, i do not ever in my life or my family to live under shariah law

yeah i agree taking any religion literally is where you fuck up, all abrahamic religions have good and bad, if you take out the good, then life is chill, if you take it literally your gonna have a bad time.

Just remember, im not a muslim anymore, but my family claim to be, they dont pray, they havent read all of the quran, they drink, but if you asked what religion they are they will say muslim, i feel this is the same for alot of people, they are muslim by name.

dont get me wrong, there are quite a few muslim assholes that want shariah law etc etc, and they need to supressed and killed asap.

that's the right attitude

so the problem i see is that the quran is hostile against other relgions.
the torah is just about pagan folks who progress to a monotheistic religion
the new testament is about jesus story and has some sentences that are anti jews, but it's reasonable
the quran takes the story from the old and new testament, modifies it to a muslim story and says that the other religions are false

you see those brackets, its what the saudi interpretations (most likely saudi) have put.

it will say something like

'dont make friends with disbelievers'

for example

but they will add in brackets (Christians, Jews)

at the end of the day, Islam is a problem, because to understand it you need intepretation, and whose interpretation is the right one?

Maybe ISIS's and those people have the correct one, and the 'peaceful' ones are wrong.

and because of that, if you read it directly, well then.........yeah you gonna do some fucked up shit.

Muslims claim Islam is the final religion for the whole of mankind etc, but it can;t be there are so many inconsistencies, so many things you have to ask someone to explain, that it can't be

you guys are asking me detailed questions, which i am not the best person to answer, i hope someone else could chime in, cause i have some questions myself.

I have honestly never heard of that, I think the most I heard is that angels came down and told muhammad to recite, and apparently he didnt know how to read or write

some of those quotes in the picture are inaccurate depending on the translation
I've got a german translation that's considered to be the most accurate german translation, concerning the quote about making friends it clearly says christians and jews

Jews don't have the hell angle.
Historically, they don't even believe in heaven. They have "sheol" which is just a thin metaphor for oblivion.

"Heaven" as an afterlife is generally believed by jews today, but is not ever explained or described, and it has nothing to do with whether you sinned or disbelieved or not.

This is true to a degree, but when you ask a scholar about a certain verse that says kill disbelievers or don't be friends with disbelievers, they will say:

>'oh its only for that time period during those years'

they will come up with stupid ways to deflect and make an excuse

Yeah its true, if you read the stories about Jesus and Mary and Judas etc its all pretty much the same., the Virgin Mary gave birth to Jesus etc, alot is the same actually.

The only big difference is regarding Jesus, where Christians believe Jesus is God, or Gods son.

Where muslims believe Jesus is a prophet, like Moses, Abraham.

I see, interesting.

I would say look at Zakir Naik, he is someone alot of muslims kind of see as the good guy that spreads the 'right' message, he has lots of youtube videos, with debates against athiests etc.

But he talks alot of shit IMO, his arguments are stupid, and he uses stupid analogys to weed his way out of questions, but you learn alot how they try to interpret a line from the Quran into something else.

I believe there is a god, i dont believe that this world happened on its own, i dont believe a sperm + egg cell = baby just happened etc etc i believe theres a higher being, but who knows whos God is the right one.

I read the entire thing, it's written by a mentally sick warlord who needs goat fuckers to stop him from sperging

>tfw even Pajeet knows how barbaric Islam is

probably his hindu friends were all killed by muslims

>It says abraham was a muslim and his children were also muslims
>It says jesus was a muslim
I don't think you understand what Muslim means..
>It says abraham and his son built the kaaba in mekka

yeah all biblical stories happen in the south-east of the arabian peninsula.
>And yes it repeatedly says that christians and jews follow the wrong religion and go to hell, why is this book even allowed? It's worse than Mein Kampf.
Well, every religion says the same thing to each other

About that last point, our virtue signaling liberals that rabidly defend your goat fucker faith claim that it, in fact, nowhere says that Christians and Jews practice the wrong faith and will burn in hell. That's his point. Now gas yourself, Abdul.

Of course I believe Christians and Jews have wrong faiths, but there is nothing in the Quran that says kill them because they have different faith.
To you be your Way, and to me mine.

>I don't think you understand what Muslim means..
maybe you enlighten me then, as far as I understand it a muslim is someone who follows the teachings of the quran and accepts mohammed as the last prophet of allah
according to the muslim world I'm a nonmuslim or kuffar

the difference is the following:
christians and jews accept muslims
muslims say christians and jews are unbelievers who follow a false god

the reason jesus and Abraham called Muslims, because anyone who is Monotheist and doesn't "humanize" or make up falsies about him then he is a Muslim.

Quran (2:191-193) - "And kill them wherever you find them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out. And Al-Fitnah [disbelief or unrest] is worse than killing... but if they desist, then lo! Allah is forgiving and merciful. And fight them until there is no more Fitnah [disbelief and worshipping of others along with Allah] and worship is for Allah alone. But if they cease, let there be no transgression except against Az-Zalimun(the polytheists, and wrong-doers, etc.)"


Quoted right from your shit book. Are you people not real Muslims or something? Don't you get send to Jahannam for that? Also, you can preach about how Islam is a peaceful religion, but that's just a load of horse shit. Your divided sects are full of hate and demagogue, and the only "real Muslims" are Wahhabists. After all, they follow the word of your false prophet and messenger to a T. You know what they say, not every Wahhabist is a terrorist - but every terrorist is a Wahhabist.


You people are pretty funny.

What do you mean by accepting? Are you saying that in Christianity or Judaism it's okay to not believe that jesus is the son of god or biblical stories?

I bet if ask your priest he or she will say that muslims who don't believe in jesus will go to hell

>German
>Quran
just nuke them already

YES, just pick a random verse because the Quran's versus are Independent of each other and there is no meaning connecting them....

well, abraham was no monotheist, he was still a pagan
and why does abraham identify himself as a muslim?

care to elaborate on how exactly abraham built the kaaba? that's what allah says in the quran

...

The part about the (((JEWS))) changing the torah is true.
Im not even muslim and i know this.

>I bet if ask your priest he or she will say that muslims who don't believe in jesus will go to hell
no they won't, not in europe

>What do you mean by accepting? Are you saying that in Christianity or Judaism it's okay to not believe that jesus is the son of god or biblical stories?
I don't know about Judaism, but if you are a christian you don't take the bible literally. everyone knows that it's a collection of stories
you probably believe that jesus existed and that he was a good man.
I'm no christian, but it's very likely that jesus really lived

Abraham was a monotheist...
>why does abraham identify himself as a muslim?
because that is a Muslim

>care to elaborate on how exactly abraham built the kaaba? that's what allah says in the quran
He build Kaaba for people to come and worship one god. and to declare this land for his people as well

no we're so cucked that most priests don't believe this, look at our pope

>no they won't, not in europe
uhh well, you are better Muslims than us

also i think the bible is a collection of stories to strengthen our moral and it shouldn't be taken literally, it's like an old schoolbook

My Fave sura is from Ch 33 (The Confederates" verses 36/38: basically Allah has permitted Mo to screw any woman he wants, particularly Zaid, his son-in-laws wife... Way to go, God!

>Abraham was a monotheist...
got proof of that?
first of all, abraham is most likely a fictional character
secondly, in the time in which this character lived, there was no monotheism

>He build Kaaba for people to come and worship one god. and to declare this land for his people as well
but it's never mentioned in any other book that he every travelled to that area, no mentioning of that land or the kaaba. the story only appeared with the quran. and as i said above he is most likely a fictional character.
here's more reading on the kaaba
religionresearchinstitute.org/mecca/construction.htm

but why do muslims call us kuffar?

Oh, OK.


Quran (3:56) - "As to those who reject faith, I will punish them with terrible agony in this world and in the Hereafter, nor will they have anyone to help."

Quran (3:151) - "Soon shall We cast terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers, for that they joined companions with Allah, for which He had sent no authority". This speaks directly of polytheists, yet it also includes Christians, since they believe in the Trinity."

Quran (4:89) - "They but wish that ye should reject Faith, as they do, and thus be on the same footing (as they): But take not friends from their ranks until they flee in the way of Allah (From what is forbidden). But if they turn renegades, seize them and slay them wherever ye find them; and (in any case) take no friends or helpers from their ranks."

Quran (61:4) - "Surely Allah loves those who fight in His cause"

Quran (66:9) - "O Prophet! Strive against the disbelievers and the hypocrites, and be stern with them. Hell will be their home, a hapless journey's end."


You and your people have no place in modern western cultures and societies. Go back to your Tattooine-esque countries. I got more verses from everyone's favorite book to shut down your lies about Islam and how peaceful it is.

Not to mention that just this month, there's been well over 130 terrorist attacks committed in the name of Islam. There were 134 Islamic attacks in 22 countries, in which 992 people were killed and 1102 injured. This is just from this month, the 23rd of March, in the year of our Lord 2017. How is your lying propaganda working out for you, Muhammed? Don't you understand Sup Forums doesn't like or want you?

(pic related)

Then you are not the Christians that the Quran is talking about

Don't talk about this shit OP

but obviously muslims, including you believe we are
and you are waging holy war against us, why is that?

islam/koran is such a big pile of bullshit, its beyond belief. yeah you are right op, it should be banned. that would be the right thing to do.

>It says jesus was a muslim
an atheist here. I was a muslim, read the quran multiple times, and no it doesn't say that

our culture und history is christian but not many practice christianity like a christian really should, i define myself as christian tho because it's our culture

>worse than Mein Kampf
that could mean anything

what are you now?

I told you, I was a muslim, and now an atheist. Islam is basically brutality sugar-coated.

man are you stupid?

i asked you to not quot random versus instid pick the whole text of the versus to understand the meaning of the whole thing.

you can't just pick verse number 54 without showing 53, 52, 51, 50... and 55, 56..

>This speaks directly of polytheists, yet it also includes Christians, since they believe in the Trinity."
Don't project your own understanding unless you have good understanding of the Quran and the arabic language.

>looks at flag
>KEK
Saudi Germania when?

Did I forget to say that I'm secretly an atheist? I like my head to be in its place. Those fuckers would probably kill me *sigh*

is it easy as an atheist in iraq? do they accept it?
what did your family say?

ahhh questions answered

maybe because you overthrew over 10 monarchies after during the 20th century. you also popularized this radical views by using them against the USSR during the cold war

Islam is so obvioulsy false, grow up out of your shitty delusions. Its so conceptually weak as a system also.

Also, for all your claims of worshipping only Allah, you worshop Muhamed, a man, much more than any other religion worships a human. Muhamed is literally deified as the morally perfect overman in Islam, except they are not allowed to excplicitly say it.

Muslims criticize Christians for supposedly worshipping a man as a god, when they do it exponentially more.

They worshop muhamed because Allah, is an obscure unclear false god

damn that's wild.

stay safe user

sura 2 verse 136 (130)

Oh, I have a great understanding of your cultures and of your religion. Knowing the enemy is winning half the battle. Secondly, your argument about verses is invalid bub. How are you going to say that calling to murder is fine, as long as there's context to it? The Qu'ran is a big fat mess written by a pedophile manlet in the desert. You now have many more shit-skin manlets following his word and persecuting actions against whoever doesn't believe in their pathetic views and religion.

You're not fooling anyone, Muhammed.

Okay I can read arabic perfectly. I will check it, give me a second?

you still have no argument and now you are insulting me.

okay... bye

dont worry bro, i understand. I mean i live in the UK and i wouldnt openly say to muslims or family member that I dont believe in Islam anymore, my family arent really muslim anyway, but they have a little bit of faith

it would just be very awkward.

but for you in Souria it must be ALOT different.

ok

There's two type of people in the world: those that want more Muslims in any given area and facilitate that process and those that don't.

The first group is the enemy, the second isn't.

I know which group you fall into.

You water muddying piece of fucking garbage.

BUT CAN WE ALL AGREE THAT ISLAM NEEDS REFORMATION?

you don't have a decent understanding of the religion if you don't know that all the prophets are considered Muslims

damn with my filter, I thought it was Syria flag

yes, but I wouldn't call it a reformation...

islam needs to be banned

>Don't project your own understanding unless you have good understanding of the Quran and the arabic language.

Does that apply to the non arabic speaking believer also or just to the people who hate Islam?

I don't even know why the fuck you're trying to talk to us. You're a piece of shit.

I don't know it of the top of my head but it's the one where it says I can fuck little girls. I'm down with that.

No. Muslims need to be systematically expelled from non Muslim countries. It doesn't matter what they do in their own little sandbox.

(2:136) Say: “We believe in Allah, and in what has been revealed to us and to Abraham, Ishmael, Isaac, Jacob and the descendants (of Jacob) and in what was given to Moses and Jesus and in what the other Prophets received from their Lord. We make no distinction between any of them,136 and we are those who submit to Allah.”

Well, maybe you misunderstood something. In the islamic philosophy of religion it says that Islam is the final form of the previous religions, so for example each of those including jesus had a separated religion but he was mainly worshiping the same god - allah, but it wasn't stated clearly that he was a muslim.

Tell me if something didn't make sense.

P.S sorry for my bad english.

Cause that has already happened but it made the region even more violent

I never knew that...so Abraham and Jesus are considered (early) Muslims? Although I do know that the resurrection of Christ is not accepted.

What other figures are considered prophets? Is Noah a prophet? Moses? Thanks

what would you call it then? and why not?

yes noah and moses are considered muslims and prophets

Look little boy, I don't know how old are you, but I was a faithful muslim for 20 years, not gonna even bother with you.

user they are made to mug up the Koran almost 90 percent of them don't understand Arabic

Why did you respond then? Lmao

I've got the german translation and it's translated to "and truly, we are all muslims"
for me this sounds like all those he named before (abraham ismael ... moses and jesus) are muslims

a renaissance

I am Hindu it's just that I know Arabic and I have read the Koran

instead of copy pasting a picture, make your own argument

Islam is nigger-tier religion, and being born into a Muslim family is a curse I wouldn't wish on my worst enemy.

t. ex-Muslim

If you want, I'd literal-translate that part from arabic to english. but that's exactly what that al-ayaa' says

lmao faggot , literally all of this is true

All the Jewish and Christian prophetic line is coopted by the Muslim because of the obvious advantages in converting retards from Christianity and Judaism.

When did that happen?

You need to read with a tafsir. Muhammad said that Abraham was a Muslim in the since that he committed the act of Islam, that is, submission to god. It was an attempt at demonstrating that the religion put froward by Muhammad was an extension of the Judaic tradition.
Your chances of comprehending the Quran without a tafsir are as good as Jose of an eight years old comprehending Dante's inferno.

KILL all MUSLIM

Get fucked asshole.

What I just produced is called evidence. It's something you use to support a thesis. Like the thesis that the Koran declares all non Muslims to be disgusting animal that deserve to have the skin melted off their faces.

t. shitty larper with autism

Muhammad even admitted to "accidentally" bring revelation from Satan (which were later removed from the Qur'an), these are the infamous Satanic verses where Mohammad approved the seeking of counsel of the pagan gods (Al-Lat, Al-Manat, and al-Uzza) which were called the "elevated cranes".

Explain how a book that was edited by goat fuckers is the ultimate religion

I am pretty sure the literal defintion for muslim to the world muslim is:

THE ONE WHO SUBMITS TO THE WILL OF GOD.

In this definition all prophets, and when everyone is born, through almighty god is born a muslim

thats why when people 'convert' back to Islam, Muslims dont use the word convert, but the word 'revert', as you have come back to Islam from whichever religion you followed from your culture or parents.

lets say its up for interpretation
but if the quran says abrahams god was allah and the bible says jesus is a descendant of abraham and they share the same god (which they - historically - don't) then it's reasonable to assume the quran meant jesus was also a muslim

Quite a few? Isn't sharia generally the law practiced in a lot of majority muslim countries?

The wahabism movement

You already spammed this in like 5 other threads,stop being so edgy.

>What I just produced is called evidence. It's something you use to support a thesis.

Still you keep insulting me and provide no argument. you need therapy