Hello Comrades. This general is for the discussion of Marxism-Leninism, the ideology of revolutionary socialism and communism.
Communism is the next stage of humanity following the capitalist stage.
What exactly is communism according to Marxist-Leninists:
>Communism is a stage of society in which the productive infrastructure is socially owned, and goods are produced not in order to sell for profit, but in order to meet a social need. >Communism in it's full form is a stateless, classless society that follows the maxim "From each according to their ability, to each according to their need." >To achieve such a society Marxism-Leninism teaches us that we must replace the capitalist state, which is controlled by the capitalist class, by a socialist state, which is controlled by the working class. Then, a period of class struggle follows in which the capitalist class is liquidated by the working class. When the capitalist class has been completely vanquished, there will be only one class, the working class, and eventually the functions of the state will become indistinguishable from the functions of the society as a whole, and the state as such will 'wither away' as Marx said. marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1847/11/prin-com.htm marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1848/communist-manifesto/
reminder to sage/shitpost the fuck outta these threads
Julian Rivera
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Evan Gray
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Chase Evans
Lumpenproletariat is a term that was originally coined by Karl Marx to describe the layer of the working class that is unlikely ever to achieve class consciousness and is therefore lost to socially useful production, of no use to the revolutionary struggle, and perhaps even an impediment to the realization of a classless society.
Isaac Jenkins
Communism doesn't work. Period. How many millions of corpes do you commies need as a counter-argumunet? Rationalizing the suffering of individuals for the supposed benefits of a group is essentially immoral and lead to genocide. A group doesn't suffer, the individual suffers.
Gabriel Adams
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Xavier Kelly
Hello gomrades! XDDDD Dis general is for disgussion of margsism-lebonnism, da ideology of revolutionary socialism and gommunism.
Gommunism is da next stage of guckery following real society.
Wat exagtly is gommunism according to gommies:
>Gommunism is a stage of guckery in which the produgtive infrustrugture runs away from gommie country, and no goods are produced and beeple starve. XDDDD >Gommunism in full form is obressive, statist society dat follows maxim "gib gib gib!" :DDDD >To achieve gommunism we must replace broduction with murderous obressive rulers liek me, fug working glass beeple. XDDDD Struggle while I liquidate you all lol. When capitalists run away we win and I kill you all. Eventually the functions of state cease and state becomes murderous and indistinguishable from other gommies. Da state withers away liek da people. gommies.gom/fug/ gommies.gom/starve/
----------------------------------------- Da sdages of gommunism.
>Sdage one Bourgers aren't allowed to vode :DDD but otherwise da system is digtadorshib of gommies. Everything is stole by digtadors and digtadors rule all.
>Sdade two Withering All beeple who aren't digtador glass starve. XDDD Once glass disabears and we steal everything more beeple wither away. Bolice begome unnecessary as beeple are dead lol :DDDDD Central blanning begomes unnecessary begause sgarcity caused starving. Money is all ours.
>Sdage three Gommunism. No beeple. No food. My money. Much benis.
Jace Brown
Capitalism has killed far more than communism.
Cooper Bailey
Fuck off M-L is Stalinism. Take the bookchin pill Yes Stalinism is bad. Your point? You also have to remember that the USSR moved a lot of industry and things from them to the USSR in turn making them poorer
Charles Lopez
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Adam Rogers
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Christopher Garcia
not an argument and this was posted months ago we are from leftypol
Elijah Barnes
posting in /it doesn't work/ general
Henry Price
>State capitalism doesn't work Yeah ik that
Aaron Smith
same shit nigger lover
Connor Collins
Someone post the evil dogger.
Sebastian Morales
Xd le nigger Stop and post arguments instead of autistic screeching
Isaac Turner
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Henry Gonzalez
engaging in arguments is exactly what you want read the fucking post
Julian Myers
>Spanish >Communist
okkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkk
Ayden Walker
Spanish friend stop with the ML threads make them just for the Rad Left in general. No one likes state capitalism
Luis Gray
>Cultural marxism are you retarded my guy?
Jaxon Adams
>stop engaging in polite intelligent discussion REEEEEEEEEEEEE >implying I'm from reddit
Ian Sullivan
I don't care where you are from your goal is the fucking same
Colton Kelly
>ITT idiots who, even if successful, will only end up butchering each other and all of humanity over pointless semantic differences.
The best part about not being retarded (ie, a filthy Bolshevik) is that the rest of us will get to sit back and watch as you morons kill each other off.
Has never worked. Will never work.
Please kill yourselves and save the rest of the planet the effort.
If you haven't noticed, EVERYONE despises you.
Chase Fisher
This Adorno and the Frankfurt school wrote about Cultural Marxism. Cultural Marxism was about how capitalism destroyed culture and replaced it with consumerist """"culture""""" not whatever pol thinks it is
Alexander Bell
>Has never worked. >Will never work. How so? >Marxist Leninism is the only form of socialism stop
Mason Wilson
t.Lumpenprol You refuse to even educate yourself on what leftism is
Dominic Cooper
you refuse to educate yourself
Brayden Hernandez
Maybe all of you communists can save up enough money and start your own little heaven on earth together...wait you don't have the money do you? Oh and you want to take it from someone else. Yea this is why it's not gonna happen. Keep dreaming commies.
Carson Clark
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Grayson Perez
how so? I'm very open to different opinions and I read alot So it's alright if corporations steal from you but if you try to take it back it's bad?
Robert Ross
Daily reminder that Soviet union was established by Zionists (aka Church of Satan)
Elijah Mitchell
Your ideology has failed everywhere in history. Rot in hell.
Justin Brown
Shitpost incoming >[a / b / c / d / e / f / g / gif / h / hr / k / m / o / p / r / s / t / u / v / vg / vr / w / wg] [i / ic] [r9k] [s4s] [vip] [cm / hm / lgbt / y] [3 / aco / adv / an / asp / biz / cgl / ck / co / diy / fa / fit / gd / hc / his / int / jp / lit / mlp / mu / n / news / out / po / pol / qst / sci / soc / sp / tg / toy / trv / tv / vp / wsg / wsr / x] [Edit][Settings] [Home] >Sup Forums >Sup Forums - Politically Incorrect >[Post a Reply] >10/04/16 New board for Sup Forums Pass users: /vip/ - Very Important Posts >06/20/16 New Sup Forums Banner Contest with a chance to win a Sup Forums Pass! See the contest page for details. >05/08/16 Janitor acceptance emails will be sent out over the coming weeks. Make sure to check your spam box! >[Hide] [Show All] >[Return] [Catalog] [Bottom] >35 / 13 / 15 / 4 >[Update] [Auto] 1 >File: 1481244074852.png (174 KB, 1010x1010) >174 KB >Communism general Anonymous (ID: 21AocZja) 03/25/17(Sat)13:59:04 No.118250889▶
Joshua Brooks
This is a very retarded argument. This is cherrypicked and you have no proof how? No one seems to be able to say how it has failed
Elijah Nelson
Why don't you guys get employed instead of spouting philosophy that has no bearing on reality?.
Aaron Lewis
>I read a lot yeah a lot of commie literature
Ian Murphy
How does it have no bearing on reality?No I've read cappie lit and I've debated with cappies stop assuming
Logan Bennett
Laughed loud at class
Luis Hernandez
>stop assuming I read a lot of commie literature sure
Noah Martinez
Because you live in a world that will never in your lifetime conform to what you want, so instead of trying to force your worldview onto society, it's a lot healthier and a lot more fulfilling to let society's norms mold you.
Oliver Jackson
>No one seems to be able to say how it has failed Well I guess that depends on your definition of success. If you're looking for longevity communism failed. If you're looking for prosperity communism failed. If you're looking for equality communism did okay I guess.
Brayden Barnes
>McGas I'm a socialist and I laughed so hard at this the people in the next room over heard.
Jaxson Jenkins
what we say is if you want to start your own commune do it yourserves, just let ppl who want to work for corporations or save money and invest by voluntary agreements do it, bcs is not your bussiness. If ppls see how cool is your communist heaven ppl will follow you.
Wyatt James
>stop reading books Sup Forums confirmed for retards >Because you live in a world that will never in your lifetime conform to what you want, Because you live in a world that will never in your lifetime conform to what you want >implying capitalism won't fall due to the ecological problems, social and economic problems and contradictions it has Except most countries that became ""communist"" like the ussr and china were shitholes and never had capitalism before so they couldn't have socialism. Therefore they had to go back to capitalism therefore never had socialism or communism before. Plus they had to fight against imperialists
>If you're looking for prosperity communism failed See Yugoslavia and Catalonia for example
Michael James
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Austin Robinson
I welcome any communist discussion here, my opinion is however that USSR was indeed socialist.
"Soviet socialism, particularly following the introduction of the first five-year plan under Stalin in the late 1920s, introduced a new and non-capitalist mode of extraction of a surplus. This is somewhat obscured by the fact that workers were still paid ruble wages, and that money continued in use as a unit of account in the planned industries, but the social content of these ‘monetary forms’ changed drastically. Under Soviet planning, the division between the necessary and surplus portions of the social product was the result of political decisions.
For the most part, goods and labour were physically allocated to enterprises by the planning authorities, who would always ensure that the enterprises had enough money to ‘pay for’ the real goods allocated to them. If an enterprise made monetary ‘losses’, and therefore had to have its money balances topped up with ‘subsidies’, that was no matter. On the other hand, possession of money as such was no guarantee of being able to get hold of real goods. By the same token, the resources going into production of consumer goods were centrally allocated. Suppose the workers won higher ruble wages: by itself this would achieve nothing, since the flow of production of consumer goods was not responsive to the monetary amount of consumer spending. Higher wages would simply mean higher prices or shortages in the shops. " - Towards a New Socialism
Brody Lee
>Everytime one of these generals is up
Xavier Nguyen
>what we say is if you want to start your own commune >If ppls see how cool is your communist heaven ppl will follow you. And that's what we want to do but imperialists won't let us and demonize it because they say that the bureaucracy of China and the USSR and their followers are communists when they aren't.
Gabriel Nelson
Here's a fatal flaw in Communism:
Anyone who doesn't like it either eventually consents or is killed. I have a fuck load of guns and you will never have my consent. Come and take it, commie.
Oliver Foster
Did the workers have the means of production democratically? No Was there hierarchy? Yes Not socialism
Isaiah Rogers
Except in every revolution including the bourgeoise ones that happened to remove feudalism killed people. Get your head out of your ass with your utopian bullshit
Noah Price
Then you respect the NAP I guess ^-^
John Morgan
Again, what you're saying has no basis in the life we're living in the west. The system isn't going to fall within your lifetime and trying to make it fall is just doing your movement more harm than good by making common people hate you.
Just accept your place in life and try to make it better instead of bringing everyone else down to your sad, unfulfilled level.
Dylan Hernandez
>Except most countries that became ""communist"" like the ussr and china were shitholes and never had capitalism before so they couldn't have socialism That seems like a massive cop-out but okay.
>Therefore they had to go back to capitalism They haven't achieved capitalism until recently.
>Plus they had to fight against imperialists Well the Soviet Union was imperialist, so they don't have an excuse for doing so poorly
>See Yugoslavia and Catalonia for example Both failed states that no longer exist. Are you agreeing with me here?
Wyatt Morgan
>living in a 1st world country >has intetnet >wants communism Care to explain me why the fuck? Communism was relevant when workers were working 24/7 with no payment, if you have internet then how the fuck do you starve?
Jordan James
The term Cultural Marxism came from Hitler. His bitter ass hated that modernism was making its way into the art culture of Germany, so he denounced Max Ernst and Max Beckmann's art as "cultural bolshevism" trying to draw parallels between their work and the art movements that happened in Russia before 1917.
Look up Hitlers exhibition of degenerate art. Expressionism pissed him off so much that he had a huge shame show of modern expressionist paintings AT THE SAME TIME as HIS work was on display at the Great German Art Exhibition.
The degenerate art exhibition had about 20,000 people a DAY visiting. Nobody gave two shits about Hitler's traditionalism.
"Cultural Marxism" is literally Hitler citing deviant Marxist ideology as the reason people didn't like his stupid fucking art.
How funny is that shit??
(Pic related. Hitlers art. Looks like something that should be in a bed and breakfast in Maine.)
Jacob White
" In very general terms this switch to a planned system, where the the division of necessary and surplus product is the result of deliberate social decision, is entirely in line with what Marx had hoped for. Only Marx had imagined this ‘social decision’ as being radically democratic, so that the production of the surplus would have an intrinsic legitimacy. The people, having made the decision to devote so much of their combined labour to net investment and the support of non-producers, would then willingly implement their own decision. For reasons both external and internal, Soviet society at the time of the introduction of economic planning was far from democratic.
How, then, could the workers be induced or compelled to implement the plan (which, although it was (which, although it was supposedly formulated in their interests, was certainly not of their making)?"
Ian Gutierrez
>Nobody gave two shits about Hitler's traditionalism.
But somehow Germany was the most ultra-nationalist country in the world at the time?
Leo Gonzalez
How does one enforce the NAP without violence? Just asking as someone who isn't an ancap >The system isn't going to fall within your lifetime and trying to make it fall is just doing your movement more harm than good by making common people hate you. Maybe not but that doesn't mean I can't educate people about it That seems like a massive cop-out but okay. how? >They haven't achieved capitalism until recently. But that's untrue the USSR was state CAPITALIST the USSR wasn't feudalist >Well the Soviet Union was imperialist, so they don't have an excuse for doing so poorly Yes but I was talking about socialists/communists in general having to fight against imperialists >Both failed states that no longer exist. Are you agreeing with me here? No I'm talking about how they were succesful and improved peoples lives but were ruined by imperialists You still haven't answered my questions >How, then, could the workers be induced or compelled to implement the plan Because if they don't work they won't have any money to buy foods and other goods they need
Brayden Green
I don't think you read my post properly.
Come and take it, commie scum.
Nicholas Nguyen
Starting from the question of how the extraction of a surplus product was possible in a planned but undemocratic system, the cult of Stalin’s personality appears not as a mere ‘aberration’, but as an integral feature of the system. Stalin: at once the inspirational leader, making up in determination and grit for what he lacked in eloquence and capable of promoting a sense of participation in a great historic endeavour, and the stern and utterly ruthless liquidator of any who failed so to participate (and many others besides).
The Stalin cult, with both its populist and its terrible aspects, was central to the Soviet mode of extraction of a surplus product.
Wyatt Bailey
>implying capitalism wont fail due to ecological.. Commies became ecologist now? >economic It didnt happen yet, but it did happen in communist countries >social ? >contradictions Such as?
Jayden Barnes
see
Cooper Bell
Stupid fucking commie nigger can't you even post right
Jackson Rivera
post yfw you realize all of these communists are being funded by big buisiness.
Grayson Gomez
Didn't read anything in this thread. Can someone who read it redistribute their knowledge to me?
Jaxon Baker
>be commie >explode
Julian Smith
All rad leftists are pro gun. How can you revolt without weapons? We are also pro gun after the revolution so the proles can protect against dictators such as Stalin Stop copypasting and answer my what I said >Commies became ecologist now? Since when weren't they? >It didnt happen yet, but it did happen in communist countries 2008 financial crisis, the Great Depression etc >? Because racism and sexism is inherent to capitalism >Such as? the falling rate of profit, the crises that happen etc you can look up more online. Basically read Marx nibba
David Ross
>But somehow Germany was the most ultra-nationalist country in the world at the time?
The two aren't mutually exclusive.
Kayden Howard
>be commie >get shot
Ryder Bennett
>be commie >1973
Hudson Edwards
>big business funds people against them How does this work?
>business funds socialists >socialists advocate for bigger government >government becomes bigger >business buys politicians >politicians pass laws that eliminate competition >business becomes a monopoly >profit
Gavin Peterson
You still aren't addressing my point. I don't give a fuck what you are saying.
Come and fucking take it, commie piece of shit. You will never have my support and that means either I am at eternal war with your totalitarian regime. I have guns, you already binned your knife. I will ventilate the shit out of anyone who knocks at my door seeking to take my personal property, goods, or means of production.
That is the fatal flaw in your shitty ideology. You do not have my consent and I am more armed than you.
Parker Russell
9/11
Gavin Turner
There so much theories between ancaps (and minarchists). The most utopìan ancaps think that ppl wont attack each others for mutual profit. But I disagree. I believe in ptivate defense companies (mercenaries lol) that has the same function as an army. But I also think the way to the "Ancapia" goes through a Minimun State wich provides Defense and National Security
Juan Cruz
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Blake Cooper
You forget the many other non Jewish people who had their children stolen >socialists advocate for bigger government Except they don't >business buys politicians >politicians pass laws that eliminate competition >business becomes a monopoly >profit So what we have now? You forgot the part where socialists want to shoot the big business >Communism is totalitarian Doesn't have to be though... it's meant to be democratic off yourself you cringy fuck
Grayson Anderson
>Since when they werent China dies off and it was preety commie >great depression Well it did have failures but at least america isnt a poor shithole >racism Sending religious people to gulags is preety racist >read marx He was relevant in days of worker's oppression not anymore
Blake Russell
>>big business funds people against them >How does this work?
Because communism gives control of all national property to the ruling party, which the buisinesses are in a position to take over due to their massive wealth before the "Change"
It happens every time.
And the SJW's who pushed for communism are all rounded up, lined up against the wall, and shot for knowing too much about their tactics.
Jose Powell
>But I disagree. I believe in ptivate defense companies (mercenaries lol) that has the same function as an army. But what if a larger business that makes more profit can hire more mercenaries and can effectively force you to do things against your will or take over? >it happens every time Um no sweetie x >Because communism gives control of all national property to the ruling party, which the buisinesses are in a position to take over due to their massive wealth before the "Change" Communists want decentralization though
Lincoln Lewis
from the same book:
"(1) Soviet society was indeed socialist. (2) This society had many undesirable and problematic features. (3) The problems of Soviet society were in part related to the extremely difficult historical circumstances in which the Bolsheviks set about trying to build socialism, but that is not all: important policy mistakes were made (just as possible in a socialist society as in capitalism), and furthermore the problems of Soviet socialism in part reflect serious weaknesses in classical Marxism itself. (4) The failure of the Soviet system is therefore by no means irrelevant to Marxian socialism. We must reflect carefully on the lessons to be learned from this failure. (5) Nonetheless, unlike those who delight in proclaiming the complete historic rout of Marxism, we believe that a different type of socialism—still recognizably Marxian, yet substantially reformulated—is possible. The Soviet Union was socialist, but other forms of Marxian socialism are possible. (6) This claim can be sustained only by spelling out in much more detail than hitherto both the sorts of economic mechanisms and the forms of political constitution which socialists consider both desirable and feasible."
Bentley Carter
>communism is democratic Thats why lenin abolished democracy lel
Wyatt Lopez
>You forgot the part where socialists want to shoot the big business I'm sure that will work out great for you like it has every other time.
Xavier Jones
>D-downvoted!!!!
Grayson Russell
Is all you can do copy and paste? >implying the workers can't run it themselves >Thats why lenin abolished democracy lel It was meant to be but Lenin was in a position where he couldn't give what he promised because of the material conditions of Russia. Russia was at the time a feudalist country with little capitalism so the state had to adopt state capitalism. Even Lenin knew that they couldn't have socialism because they had no capitalism before so he wanted to organize the country into coops as you can see here marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1923/jan/06.htm marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1923/jan/23.htm
Benjamin Price
>Doesn't have to be though... it's meant to be democratic off yourself you cringy fuck I DON'T FUCKING CARE
COME AND TAKE IT YOU COMMIE FUCKER
You still are not addressing my point. You will never have my consent. I will kill anyone who tries to impose their commie shit upon me. So either the meme of "100 billion trillion died in Communism" is true, or you will fuck off and not impose your commie shit on me. Take your pick.
