Libertarian Left

Could somebody explain to me what the fuck this thing even is? Like seriously, what is it?

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globalresearch.ca/libya-ten-things-about-gaddafi-they-dont-want-you-to-know/5414289
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mutualism_(economic_theory)
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Political ideologies are on a spherical spectrum, not a 2D graph

This is the greatest lie never told

kekd checked and /thread

the further bottom left you get, the more liberal-fantasyland the belief system gets

They believe that private property is coercive and unethical. For instance, they think it's wrong when someone claims to own a piece of land - how could they own it? The only way they could own it is through force, hence their view that it's based on tyranny.

Libertarian Left would be your open border one world libertarians..

Libertarian right would be your Civic Nationalist types.

It's Troskyism

I have a feeling its where the mythical real communism lives.

The one where there isnt supposed to be any governance structure.

So taxation is ok then I guess ?

Property is theft, but there's no laws against theft because there's no government.
Communism!

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No idea. Leftist economic plans cannot be voluntary. Authority is required for a leftist system to actually take place, the most basic ideas of leftism paint a picture of a planned and directed economy.. If being subject to this force is voluntary, there is no system at all.

Left-Libertarian is an oxymoron.

Libertarian left means high social programs, low regulation.

>Fuck the government! Smoke that dank kush brah!
>FUCK THE GOVERNMENT!
>Fuck Tyranny man
>Fuck the military and the police, fascist pigs
>Muh Che Guevara
>Lets live in the woods man, no government brah just weed and growing our own vegetables man
>Bro imagine like no government?
You know those right wingers who hate the government and just want to go into the woods, raise chickens and hunt? Yeah imagine the liberal version of that

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guys iQ test link plzz

so high taxation (therefore big government) but low business regulations? So basically Denmark? Denmark is libertarian left?

Like, we need to share man, to each according to his need.
Sure if you need to relieve some tension you can fuck my girlfriend

"Libertarian" was a term first used by socialists. It cannot be an oxymoron. If anything, the term was used incorrectly by capitalists.

Replace free market with open communities and syndicalised businesses with community organization. IE the right libertarians would replace policemen with rights enforcement agencies but the left libertarians would replace policemen with community policing.

No one sane is pure left or pure right when they're also trying out libertarianism, it's best to be closer to the middle. I'm only slightly left of center, but I'll continue larping just so Sup Forums has someone to argue against.

It's not, Trotsky was actually above the middle point of the authoritarian/libertarian divide but close to the middle point of the left/right divide.

Cosmopolitanism isn't strictly libertarian, you could argue open borders unequally disadvantages locals so it's somewhat authoritarian. Even despite this, open borders is dick waving libertarianism like legalising meth and heroin.

If property is theft, if individuals may not have property, then you're espousing a collectivist instead of Individualistic philosophy and will likely resort to authoritarianism and large states to manage actual stuff.

You're not libertarian.

This is true, but it can be both voluntary and equitable if the people themselves have a culture that promotes this.

I did not know that but then in your eyes, what does it mean to be left, right; libertarian?

your id explains the comtradoction

freedom

One of the biggest things about the libertarian left is that the government SHOULDN'T protect peoples property. That big government enables the rich, and we wouldn't have billionaires that controlled vast amounts of property if the government and society did not enable them.

Much of the criticism of the TPP was libertarian left in nature, with people resisting the idea that governments should enforce that corporations had longer and longer rights to creative works and pharmacuticals, that these things should enter the public domain more quickly.

Read into Henry George, he's a good example of the libertarian left.

Pic related, libertarian left propaganda.

How the fuck is ancom even supposed to work?
There's no laws because lol anarchy.
There's no property because lol communism.
The NAP doesn't work when there's no such thing as property, and that's the foundation of anarchy.
It's like ancom is literally becoming animals who eat each other alive to survive.

Voluntary socialism.

It's not hard to comprehend.

dood weed

I'll translate since you clearly speak a foreign language.

>volunteering for physical removal by free helicopter ride

You should understand that when people say they're on the libertarian left, they mostly mean that in a relative sense.

Only the most insane chucklefucks are actually anarchists, and both ancaps and ancoms are equally insane, because they will get stomped by non-anarchistic societies that can do things like draft people into an army they aren't allowed to leave, in exchange for promising to take all the ancoms/ancaps lands. Any sort of system that proposes to realistically resist this sort of external threat, such as lolbertarianism, generally ends up making ancap/ancom so impure it's not ancap/ancom anymore.

The libertarian left generally wants the government to fuck off and stop giving people so many rights to property. Most of Sup Forums has libertarian left leanings in regards to intellectual property.

so whats red

ancom/ancap can also work on a small scale, they just scale up badly.

There are some small ancap/ancom communities, haven't you guys ever heard of a hippie commune before?

IT'S BETTER TO BE DEAD THAN RED

answer

Of course Ameridumbs recoil at the utterance of the word "socialism" like vampires before a cross.

Socialism isn't necessarily a bad thing. Even America enjoys many of the benefits of socialism.

Physically remove yourself cuck.

red is also socialist scum who volunteered for physical removal by helicopter rides

whats the difference then

Uneducated retard detected.

Not unusual since this is pol but I still urge you to read a book not written by Ayn Rand.

Lower Left = big government with more freedom
Lower Right = less government with more freedom
Upper Left = big government with less freedom
Upper Right = less government with less freedom

It's people who want the government to tell everyone else what to do, but not them.

None. The ones in the bottom are just more utopian.

Why haven't you physically removed yourself yet?

It's basically utopian nonsense that pretends everyone will be voluntary socialists and share property.

But is that even a system of government? Socialism is pretty much defined by the state attempting to control the economy, and it can't be anything but authoritarian because of that.

If the system is voluntary, it's nothing more than a taxpayer-funded club where even paying the tax is optional as an outsider.

Those "benefits of socialism" are the lead weights dragging us into the abyss.

>lmao idc do what u wanna do as long as u dont hurt anyone xD

Police and Military are tax funded, ie socialism. Are you going to complain about that? I guess I would being one of these left libertarian types, but I'd bet you wouldn't.

I'm one on the map. I can only speak for myself, but I'd guess the general consensus is:
If it doesn't harm anyone, you should be able to do it
Taxes should be used to support educational and cultural establishments, as well as political or infrastructural ones
The government should agree with and act upon the scientific consensus
The government should be secular
Criminals, while they should be punished, also need to be rehabilitated if possible
Equality of opportunity and process is necessary
Big corporations should not be allowed to do anything they want, because their ultimate goal is the greatest amount of wealth, nothing else
There's more, but that's about it

>Doesn't want to own recreational nukes

what a cuck

Dude weed + gibmedats

Progressives and commies who pretend they are for freedom.

Easy, this part represents living in a grass hut. Probably in a coastal area. Intil some Roman puts you in chians and forces you to fight to the death.

>One of the biggest things about the libertarian left is that the government SHOULDN'T protect peoples property. That big government enables the rich, and we wouldn't have billionaires that controlled vast amounts of property if the government and society did not enable them.
Do people actually believe this though?

Why haven't you educated yourself yet?

The police and military are not socialist creations at all. Just because some taxes go to some socialist programs does not mean all government programs are socialist.

Yes it's a bit naive.

You have no clue what you're talking about. See

It's basically what early American settlers were and there was a gradual and then snowballed steep decline in general wellness and productivity. With no other choice they swung right and became libertarian right and productivity flourished. The constitution was written with this in mind. As time went on authority grew and to re gain the left side we seen arise of authoritarian left to counter act that there was an authoritarian right but power never relinquishes so the pendulum swang back to the left and has been steadily increasing.

Basically wikipedia, you dont edit articles and they basically "come out of nowhere"

What the fuck?

What do you define as socialism then?

The military is not fucking socialism. The police is not fucking socialism.

Socialism:
a political and economic theory of social organization that advocates that the means of production, distribution, and exchange should be owned or regulated by the community as a whole.
synonyms: leftism, welfarism; More
policy or practice based on the political and economic theory of socialism.
synonyms: leftism, welfarism; More
(in Marxist theory) a transitional social state between the overthrow of capitalism and the realization of communism.

Kill yourself, Mountain Jew.

Sure, I mean, think of it this way.

Billionaires own tons and tons of property and assets and such all over the world. Multinational corporations have insane amounts of assets.

You think you can hold onto all that property without a police force that will drive a billy club into the skulls of people that pirate a movie, resell and undercut offical distribution channels? You think the rich could hold onto as much property as they do without governments going after theives and squatters and vandals and such? You think Warren Buffet would be nearly as rich if all the brands he owned constantly had to fear counterfeiters? You think Microsoft would be nearly as rich if businesses didn't fear repercussions if they used illegal software?

The idea that the government enables the rich is very fundamental to left wing thought, "real communism" was a stateless society, the left constantly perceive the government in bed with things like the military industrial complex.

The anarchist left dreams of tearing down the government that oppresses them and props up the rich and their property against the will of the community, the more authoritarian left dreams of a strong government that will destroy the entrenched power of the rich and the bourgeoisie and give to the proletariat.

How is it not socialism?

It's taxpayer funded (contribution according to ability) and available to all (distribution according to need)

Don't right libertarians want private militias?

Originally "libertarian" meant leftist. Libertarian socialists are those retards who want either anarcho-communism or "market socialism" (i.e. mutualism and similar ideologies)

Socialism involves regulating the economy, production, and distribution of wealth.

Funding the police and military to keep order and protect you from foreign threats is not a socialist concept.

Okay well in that case not a single western country is socialist since the means of production are all privately owned.

Owned OR regulated.

Christ man. Just take the loss and move on there is nothing wrong with admitting you are wrong.

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What are your three axes, then?

>Giving all citizens mutally the benefit of a military and police force to protect them from foreign threats hurting their economy, productivity, and preventing wealth from being redistributed into foreign coffers
>Not having to provide your own protection
>The government pumping up the military with tax dollars to provide more jobs via the military industrial complex and military itself
>Not socialism.

The left is right that the military is the right wing approved jobs program, it's in the category of things they like, and socialism is in the category of things they dislike.

You know a big part of the reason Hitler loved military spending so much is that nobody had a job. Give people jobs making military equipment, give people jobs in the army, have those people revitalize the economy with their newfound money, while providing economic value by conquering foreign lands with untold riches. Pretty good socialist jobs program the national socialists came up with desu.

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In that case every country on the world is socialist. Which is it?

Every country in the world is socialist. Socialism is a pretty popular idea.

If that's the case then maybe socialism isn't so bad after all.

DUDE WEED LMAO

The military still has to pay private companies for weapons and technology. If they seized the private production of both, then they would be socialist.

dudeweedlamo

I think you mean a torus

But they use taxpayers' money to buy those weapons.

The police and military are not typically considered socialist since they provide an actual service that everyone benefits from equally. The vast majority also consider them necessary in maintaining a political/economic system, both inside and outside a country.

this is actually an exceptional thread, leaf friend, i have wondered this question very many times. this is the square that i really struggle to label in any objective terms. these people are retarded and really need to convert to the purple master race.

Leftist economic policies with libertarian social policies and civil liberties.

Nice meme.
Libertarianism was originally socialist.

Yes, but the means of production are still private and relatively unregulated.

Just because my thumb is a finger doesn't mean all my fingers are thumbs.

That's the kind of detailed answer I wish there was more of on Sup Forums, have a schooner on me mate.

No, taxes are illegal.
In soviet russia - you tax government,.

Under socialism people at large own all land collectively, so profits from natural resources are redistributed to the people. Kind of like how Alaskan citizens get a stipend from oil, except with lumber, ore, water, electricity, and so on. You can't extract profit from land, only from peoples work, so the surplus profit from extracting it goes back to the nation instead of the CEOs of corporations in America.

That's how it works/ed in Libya, Syria, Venezuela, Cuba, and so on until the US Oil Elite stage a coup, and obviously that's also why they staged the coup.

>globalresearch.ca/libya-ten-things-about-gaddafi-they-dont-want-you-to-know/5414289

>b-but nothings free

yeah no shit thats why we take it from the greedy corporations and give it back to YOU, the PEOPLE

hahahaha le epicccccccc hahahahaha lolololol ecks dee dee dee!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

>hahaha cuck cuck cuck le lololol XDDDDD!!!!! im le so le funny le lolol cuck!!!!

>sphere
>not a cube
Get on my level volumelet

>monarchy is socialism because the king collects taxes
this is how dumb you are

Governments totally will seize private property related to war during wartime. It's just an inefficient thing to do during peacetime.

Still uses taxpayer money

Really I'm just being difficult, it's not literally socialist, but military spending has a hilarious amount of parallels to socialism. I would also argue neoliberals like Clinton aren't socialist at heart, although social democrats like Bernie are, but Clinton gets called socialist all the time.

"Socialism" is about as abused a word as "fascism" and tends to be used rather loosely.

Sup Forums and burgers in particular have a pretty meme understanding of socialism, but it's one thing to acknowledge every country is socialist, another to think that the current levels of socialism are beneficial.

You sound like a cuck imo

>not a single country is socialist
yes
because SOCIALISM IS IMPOSSIBLE

And yet you probably think food stamps and universal healthcare are socialist...

If you live in Australia and England, like many Sup Forums users do, we enjoy either Medicare or the NHS.

At least when we're sick or injured, the state actually helps us out, instead of slamming us with rediculous fees like in 'Murica.

At the end of the day, those are socialist systems.

Like imagine you're a libertarian and you're going to university and you're smoking a lot of pot so you've become a little susceptible to all the lefties around you; but you're not stupid enough to actually trust the government and believe that socialism could work. Then lower left is where you end up.

I spent a year there around 2006 back when I was an undergrad, then years of liberal bullshit pushed me further and further to the right.

accurate

>2k17
>not using a 4 dimensional tesseract to represent your ideology

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But a large government is necessary to provide alot of social programs. And social programs are really easily exploited.

No anti capitalist and anti government. Workers control the means of production. There are different types of left libertarianism; mutualism for example en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mutualism_(economic_theory)

OP, this is very much like dark matter or dark energy. It doesn't exist. Much like the agencies such as CIA and NSA want you to believe that freedom and personal responsibility that the country was founded on, can co-exist. In truth, there really can be no freedom as the liberals encroach on our freedoms and rights as humans. You have to choose. Do you want freedom? Do you want lies, corruption, and deceit? You can't have it both ways. Currently, those who would erode your freedoms are busy trying to inundate the "free" media with stories of Trump being tied to foreign interests. In truth, they are using their immense powers to control politics. This was the worst fears of our founding fathers and the very reason why they went to great lengths to prevent this from every happening. The American public has become lazy, afraid, and is willing to "let someone else fix it". There is no such thing as "Libertarian Left". Freedom requires good men and personal responsibility.