SOCIALISM GENERAL

>What is socialism?
Socialism is the idea of workers having a social ownership over the workplaces. where goods and services are produced according to human need, rather than for profit.

>Why isn't capitalism good enough?
The main problem is that capitalism produces according to profit. It doesn't matter how fucking detrimental it is to society, it will be produced if it makes a profit.


>480,000 deaths per year from tobacco in america
>68% of americans are overweight/obese while the billion dollar fast food industry advertises every place you look
>Over 500,000+ homeless people while we have millions of vacant houses
>Education is being butchered by companies looking to profit, people now go into life-long debt from trying to improve themselves
>Private prisons now give a financial incentive to imprisoning americans.

Capitalism has only been around for ~300 years, do you really think THIS is the end goal?

as a nat soc I can agree that things should be made for the use of the nation and not for profit

lets seize the memes of production comrades

There is a stronger future without capitalism.

Socialism is the key

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Honest question:
If socialism is so good why did they have to build a wall to keep people inside their own country?

>22 empty homes for every homeless person
How is this possible with the rules of supply and demand?

Revolutionary Catalonia did not have to do this, and agricultural yields went up by as much as 50% depending on sources, all the while increasing democracy and liberty for 99% of people

people don't have enough money to buy homes, particularly our generation, i'm 25 now, in europe homes are just ridiculously expensive, idk about America but even junior accountants and things who would be putting mortgages down 20 years aren't thinking about it right now, there is a big boom in renting your home instead of ever buying it

Fuck off retard

I think that a helicopter flight from Pinochet Airlines is in order for you

fuck off fuckass, boot-licking cuck

Has REAL socialism ever been tried before?

Yeah, all I can do is afford renting a house. That being said, I'd still take Capitalism over Socialism any day.

Of course it was, several countries tryed there versions and even succeded.

blame... for what?

0/10 meme

Because....

why tho?

Which countries were they and why are we speaking in past tense?

If this airline flies under capitalism, I probably can't afford it, capitalism is stealing from the american people and hundreds of millions are too poor to fly

Yes, i live in Scotland which with the powers we have (from Westminster) are almost socialist and it sucks.
It's basically a mix of socialism (healthcare, police etc) and capitalism.

A rich (by rich i mean about $1m in assets, i.e. not hard) man buys a home for his family, 12 pidgeon holes for rent to wagecucks, 2 summer homes, inherited 2 homes from parents currently used for storage, 4 apartments mainly for storage

not an argument

Revolutionary Catalonia, Revolutionary Rojava (that is, currently, right now in Kurdistan) Chiapas, the Ukrainian free territories, the Honduran campesino movement, many others.

Real capitalism has been tried all over, we are living in it, you like the way the world is?

hmmmmm

If socialism is so bad why did many socialist countries not have to do this?

There's noting confusing about it. People won't sell unless they get a reasonable return on their investment; housing is an investment and is expected to continuously increase in value. Building to much would crash the key investment category most of the middle class is tied into and depends upon increasing in value so they will lobby to prevent construction of new housing keeping costs high.

revolutionary Rojava and Chiapas are present tense. They have raised the political freedoms of their regions and the living standards. The honduran campesino movement has reclaimed land from drug lords and corrupt government under the threat of constant violence

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>Over 500,000+ homeless people while we have millions of vacant houses

So what's the solution, to just give homeless people free houses?

>giving people health insurance will stop them from being fat

"Economic freedom" is usually a meme-tier measurement.

Go suck your Jewish masters' dicks, you fucking stooge.

>Real capitalism has been tried all over, we are living in it, you like the way the world is?

I certainly don't think I'd have more under socialism.

I can't speak for other countries, but USSR had a socialist society untill 20 party meeting

Stopping fastfood companies from serving the cheapest shit possible on a global scale will help retard.
>Opposing your nation from having good health

Holy fuck you're retarded

>capitalism is stealing
that would be socialism

>airplane flights
a perfect example of how deregulation lowers costs for the consumers and improves quality of life.

>I can't afford $50
kek. how are you posting on this board? don't public libraries block obscene websites?

real capitalism seldom ever has a chance to exist before government fucks it up.

>Stopping fastfood companies from serving the cheapest shit possible on a global scale will help retard.
you dont even need to take a fraction of penny out of my hard earned paycheck to do that one comrade

Dude I live in Scotland. It is nowhere near socialism. The welfare state is not socialism, socialism is worker control of the means of production. In any case, what part of as much free education as you like isn't good for a country? Compared to getting into at least 9grand a year debt to the jews when you go to uni in England, are you mad son?

what in the hell is "economic freedome"?

another made-up shit?

"Economic un-freedom" isn't necessarily socialism.

>Chiapas
top kek, that's why they're all moving to the US right? to spread the good word of socialism?

triggered that he made a valid point eh?

>when the one notable achievement of your ideology of choice is the prevention of obesity through starvation

the third is the same as the first

>real capitalism seldom ever has a chance to exist before government fucks it up.

So... where has real capitalism existed in your opinion? All the usual Ancap jokes like Somalia and Ancient Ireland or maybe Iceland?

>tfw I'm a fat capitalist pigskin and there's nothing the commies or the starving kids of Africa can do about it

Dude have you seen our NHS?

The privilege of first world countries. Even then it means freedom for the upper class.

>socialism is the answer to fat people
Just let them starve amirite xD

what does that even mean? it measures economic freedom (the extent to which the country is captalist) pretty well.

Capitalism requires a state it inevitably runs on debt (and debt based currency) which can only be enforced by state violently enforcing you to pay debts. In order to upkeep this taxes must be extracted from the workers and so the first social institutions of capitalism are the police and army, we only came to gain the other feautures of the welfare state by mass action

Look at Venezuela, and you will see why. Socialism has, and has always been, a scapegoat for people who have no clue about economics. With bigger populations, Socialism does not work as it relies heavily on state control and power, something the Yanks clearly do not like.

Furthermore, goods become more expensive under Socialism as higher regulations are set, and it just equates to more misery.

This.

>America is a capitalist country
Top kek

Attempting to get a degree for everyone has drastically lowered standards and made the qualifications almost worthless.

Even in STEM the exams of 20 years ago were far more difficult.

die of hear disease you fat degenerate you are a drain on society

It never works because people can be corrupted and in the case of government workers and politicians its not illegal since they own the fucking system.Not to mention it will never be cost-effective or efficient and productivity will always be lower than tjat of capitalism.Its an admirable ideology but it ends there.Now some social policies on a predominantly capitalist system might work:see nordic countries.

Not letting CEO's have all the control? We could be producing somewhat-healthy food, but McDonalds literally serves the cheapest shit they possibly can.

What does this even mean? Are all people on the right this retarded?

1. Somalia isn't capitalist, it has a fucking socialist government that doesn't enforce contracts or property rights.
2. to answer your question, it never has existed and never will because you can't ever really defineproperty rights well legally. That being said, the closest we have today to captalism are Hong Kong and Signapore.

>the extent to which the country is capitalist
Brazil and Russia are both capitalist. Yet on the map they are counted as not completely free. The West is counted as "economically free" but many Western countries have extensive social spending systems and unionization. Does this mean that the only "true capitalist" countries are anarcho-capitalist societies?

Fuck off commies

National socialism user the Marx idea of socialism is pure kike propoganda

there is a difference between consumer debt, and capital debt

The welfare state is fundamentally unsustainable yes, I'm not arguing for a welfare state. Nonetheless, a welfare state is preferable to unrestricted neoliberalism. You will notice the Tories rule has created an uptick in crime, homelessness and drug addiction, three sure signs of societal degeneration. Meanwhile all the supposed jobs they created were fucking deliveroo and wages and not increased with growth or inflation.

I am arguing for anarchist communism, where the NHS would be controlled directly by the population, not through westminister or holy-rood fucking it up and giving the profits to their mates

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>debt
not necessarily. Even the US used to run a budget surplus

>debt based currency
oh here we go again. someone who watched that cringey animated cartoon black man say that fractional reserve banking is evil, when it is essential to a healthy and growing economy

>Somolia is socialist
Holy fuck your retarded.

>he thinks America is a capitalist country

You guys are fucking retarded. Look at the Federal Reserve and the New Deal

The USA is a corporatist welfare state

and yet when every Bam can go to college and study hospitality management or what have you it keeps them from drinking bukkie and smashing vallies and you know its true, you notice how there is far less of those rugged scarred gadgies around the streets these days? Its not the 80's anymore because we have so much free education.

Also the exams don't really matter, the best will still ace them and still be the best, it doesn't drag them down, most of their work is completed individually in establishments specific for their needs

Sup Forums is mainly nationalist socialist (well it better fucking be)

Yeah they just had to genocide all dissenters. Retards.

It was literally a communist regime
It broke down and now has no authority, because socialism/communism leads to breakdown of rule of law, as we've seen time and again

national*** fml

Name a capitalist country that hasn't been a corporatist welfare state.

Just one.

>Somalia
>socialist
They were allied with the Soviet Union until the 1990s, but definitely aren't a socialist state.

>Be socialist venezuela
>Have to ban bakers from making things that aren't bread
>Lines are still tremendously long
>Doctors are asking patients to bring surgical gloves with them
>Traction pulleys are being counterbalanced by coke bottles
>Socialists prefer this over Big Macs

Reminder that all socialists are common thugs who seek to fulfill their own delusions of unearned prestige.

You have one chance to explain why every socialist country has failed.

Pro-tip: you can't.

it drags down the middle, which divides the elite from the masses even more.
this division creates a defacto aristocracy

But that's the same thing!

>a state steals
to some extent, yes, but it's the only solution to the security problem. A perfectly libertarian state would probably provide protection services and a legal system for less than 10% of GDP anyway, most of which would be collected from the uber-wealthy, which is much different from the 40 to 100+% of GDP that socialism uses. Ever heard of dead weight loss?

>because every society eventually collapses when their bloc of alliances collapses in a worldwide chain reaction
FTFY

>used to
Majority of the time, US has been running deficits.

A privately owned federal Reserve is not required for a healthy economy kiddo, whats their incentive for manufacturing market crashes

A lack of proper policy to preserve economic integrity isn't the fault of capitalism, it's the fault of bad politics

>What does this even mean?
You don't have to tax my income in order to tax fast-food makers

Fuck off shariablue

Socialism is the idea of minorities having the control over a country. Where laws and welfare benefits them rather than the population that represent the majority. In itself socialism is anti-democracy.

Socialism is also based on profits, profits of the Jews, while any goyim should not have any opportunity.

>oh here we go again. someone who watched that cringey animated cartoon black man say that fractional reserve banking is evil, when it is essential to a healthy and growing economy

why are you defending the jews
fractional reserve banking is shit

>healthcare
>obesity

people are fat because of what they eat and not exercising, not because they can't afford to go to the doctor.

sage

This US is already 60% socialist, we certainly do not need any more of it.

there is a difference between consumer loans and capital loans. one of those two is necessary for growth, the other is necessary for division of wealth

>Capitalism has been around for ~300 years
>300 years
>We've been using (((capitalism))) for the last 100 or so anyway

You know when Commies look at failed Commie countries and say "that wasn't real Communism" even though it quite clearly is? Well it's sort of like that except it's literally impossible to have capitalism when you use fiat money hence (((capitalism))).
What's odd though is you almost make the connections on your own

>(((tobacco)))
>(((fast food industry)))
>(((education)))
>(((private prisons)))
>You know who's responsible right? Capitalism

You were so close. I'm not sure if you overlooked it or you deliberately avoided it. It's like when people say

>"user, I've found the truth and it all makes sense! The Balfour Declaration, The Holocaust, Greater Israel, Communism, the USS Liberty, the Lavon Affair, 9/11! There's even more and do you know what it all points at?"
>"(((Surprise))) me"
>"The fucking Illuminati!"

Either educate yourself or leave.

It is a person's choice to not buy healthy food.

McDonalds is very far from the cheapest way to eat.

People know it is bad, but they still buy it. It is their own fault if they can't consume it responsibly.

Short of enforcing a set meal plan for everyone, you aren't going to prevent anyone getting fat.

I went to university in England and the majority are at least upper-middle class with more money than sense.

Is national socialism allowed?

>defending the FED
Kill yourself

Alright I agree with you, on not having holyrood or Westminster run anything, I'm more of ancap than anything else, i just don't see communism or socialism working in our current world, same with NatSoc etc. What we have (in my opinion) is the best we'll have until everyone is ready.

>Real capitalism has been tried all over, we are living in it

Literally kill yourself. It's painful having people this retarded on my island.

>Not letting CEO's have all the control?

But it's their company
Of course they have control

yes, it's failed state government is. Most of it's economy is informal now of course so the economy itself isn't.

I didn't think so, pinkos.

Pic related.
The most common response to this image is "Allende was horrible for Chile!", to which the only response should be " The Nixon administration was horrible for Chile"