Riddle me this, capitalism fags:
If you're against corporate monopolies because the lack of competition artificially drives up prices, why are you for worker monopolies by limiting immigration? The price of labor is too high because there is a lack of competition in the labor market. Yet you're totally fine with that. Seems a little...biased, don't you think?
we need protectionism because worker protection and wage laws are making it unappealing to hire Americans
Why are you new-age commucucks in favor of mass-immigration when it creates competition for your jobs, fills your neighborhoods with criminals, erodes your cultural sovereignty, and decreases the value of labor?
So if we removed worker protection and wage law, you'd be for open borders?
>decreases the value of labor
Congratulations, you're following along. A key requirement of capitalism is competition in markets. So why are you against competition in the labor market?
Well, I'm pro-closed borders for different reasons, but if there were no external threats, sure.
The external threats of importing workers are comparable to the external threats of allowing unregulated businesses to form. An irresponsible new business can hurt a lot of people, like criminals can. I just don't understand the double standard.
I meant angry foreigners with an incompatible culture for the different reason.
Because unlike the imagrants that originally came here looking to put down roots and invest back into the country wile integrating our culture and disregard the backwards ways of their forefathers. NOW they live 20 to a house spending $50 a month on rent and seND %95 of theit post-tax income back to another country.
>are you for worker monopolies by limiting immigration?
Because the companies that are big enough for such hiring practices are generally too big to fall due to anti trust laws and thus, performing poorly due to their new brigade of pajeets is inconsequential.
On a side note, most people are against immigration due to the cultural and criminal downsides that it brings, as well as the burden that it generally is on social security thanks to gibs.
In short, remove certain stupid laws that permit bailouts and what not, destroy the welfare state and then by all means allow properly vetted first world citizens to flood your labour market. The market will fix itself in a few years time. It's still a dumb idea to do this.
Worker monopolies? What the fuck are you talking about? There will never be a lack of workers at the level that most immigrants work: minimum wage. Skilled workers are the only ones that are needed, and they aren't coming from third world countries. We have no incentive to allow mexicans or middle easterners in, since there are plenty of unemployed individuals to work at their level.
we're laborers not owners dipshit. It's almost impossible to become an owner of a successful business these days thanks to giant corporations. We want the price of labor to increase so those greedy jews will pay us more.
We have plenty of unemployed or underemployed people in this country to go around. Most of these illegal immigrants are filling jobs to the point of depressing wages for unskilled labor.
Why would McDonalds raise their wages when they have a nearly unlimited supply of unskilled laborers?
Capitalism works because it drives the best products and the companies that make/serve them to succeed. By artificially keeping labor low or by subsidizing products/failed markets you interrupt the workings of the system which creates these disparities which you are complaining about.
This is not free market, it's not even capitalism. It's corporatism. The government burden of high taxes and over zealous regulations creates an environment where the company has no choice but to take steps that reduce labor costs. If I were a billion dollars, I'd lobby the government to raise taxes on an industry and at the same time invest in the solution to the high cost of doing business. This is not free market. Not free market.
Not free market
>Skilled workers are the only ones that are needed, and they aren't coming from third world countries
lol, what are H1-B visas, alex
Hmm, sounds a lot like "gibsmedat." Your wage should be determined by the natural forces of the free market, not because you can artificially exclude classes of workers.
>depressing wages
Or, deflating wages from the artificial level they were at.
>Why would McDonalds raise their wages when they have a nearly unlimited supply of unskilled laborers?
Wages would be set to the level that attracts the level of people they want to work for them, no more, no less.
So if you could undo corporate regulations, you'd be for unrestricted immigration?
>worker monopolies
what the fuck am i reading...
>The price of labor is too high because there is a lack of competition in the labor market
The price of labour is high because we live in shitty welfare states where you can't sustain a lower income salary because the majority goes to taxes. That + our governments keep telling all school students that they MUST have good high paying jobs, so there forms a mentality where people don't want shity jobs because its socially looked down upon. In addition we have become decadent and whiny, and if we can't earn a wage where we can afford flat screen TVs and Iphones, we elect a new party into government. The reason we "need" immigrants is because democracy makes people insufferable egomaniacs who think they are the greatest gift to mankind.
>The H-1B is a non-immigrant visa in the United States under the Immigration and Nationality Act, section 101(a)(17)(H). It allows U.S. employers to temporarily employ foreign workers in specialty occupations.
H-1B = specialty occupations
specialty occupations = skilled workers
most immigrants = 3rd world countries
3rd world countries = unskilled workers
most immigrants =/= H-1B
Therefore, we want to limit immigration.
So if you could undo corporate regulations, you'd be for unrestricted immigration?
No, labor isn't the only thing affected by immigration. Culture is important to me. Importing unskilled and uneducated third world populations only expands the welfare state. Diseases that were all but wiped out are making a comeback. I understand the liberal side, that we need to be compassionate, but there comes a point where you have to force self reliance. We could still help, but we help them help themselves. We allow them the export their revolutions.
Automation is coming sooner than later, and a limited workforce will only accelerate that progress.
Fuck migrants. They cause social issues and almost always bring crime.
>worker monopolies
lmao. Do you know what monopoly means? You fucking spic?
You must not be in the tech industry. H-1B visas are a hot political topic in tech because tech is literally flooded with Pajeets from INDIA and PAKISTAN
Because the nation comes before economic interests, and I don't accept the premise that inviting billions of niggers into your country makes economy better.
Because economics is subordinate to culture in the wealth of nations
Next
Do you? If you can't see how nationalism can artificially edge out foreign worker competition in the labor market, and how that is analogous to a monopoly, then I can't help you.
>I want my countrymen to have first dibs
>I'm biased by giving my community and fellow citizens priority
You're fucking right I do, so when I call a plumber or customer support I don't have to fucking watch Kite Runner six times to ask them a question.
>Congratulations, you're following along.
Why are commies so smug when they're so stupid?
''They took our jobs'' is just an excuse to keep white countries white.
No one cares if Paco mows some lawn for 5 bucks an hour. What people care about is the fact that shitskins are getting in and laying their eggs. You can't say that out loud, so people come up with economic and legal arguments.
Your entire premise is false because you've never actually spoken to nationalists. Must be your first time out of the reddit commie bubble.
I'm about to graduate high school. Computer science major after that. Didn't know about H-1B until you mentioned it. Simple google search tells me that it doesn't apply to the immigrants we are trying to limit from entering.
I do. And I'm FOR that.
How is collective bargaining not part of the Free Market ?
I work in the marine industry and the men who come in with the merchant boats make 2$ a day. I make around 300.
>I want my business partners to have first dibs
>I'm biased by giving my business and execs priority
Literally no difference.
Not an argument
>Simple google search tells me that it doesn't apply to the immigrants we are trying to limit from entering.
Then why is Trump cracking down on H-1B visas?
If you're an idiot, what you say almost certainly has no value
When and where is your next antifa rally so I can live stream me bashing your fucking skull in front of your boyfriends
>and how that is analogous to a monopoly, then I can't help you.
You're a retard. A monopoly means there is only one (one) producer. You're saying that not allowing spics into the country means that there's one (ONE) laborer in competition for work?
You're a fucking retard.
What do you expect from a commie
Don't expect him to recognise it though
shut up you're pointing out the logical flaws in OPs ideas
>WORDS I DISAGREE WITH
>You're saying that not allowing spics into the country means that there's one (ONE) laborer in competition for work?
lol wow, holy shit.
A monopoly being one producer does not mean there is one employee at the company. SIMILARLY, a labor market monopoly does not mean there is one worker. I'm not using "monopoly" to mean "one person" you retard. I'm meaning it to mean "one national class of people" ie "Americans." Americans have a monopoly on the labor market in America in that they exclude other nationals from entering the labor market. That's the best I can do to dumb it down for you.
Well what you are assuming is that we have a lack of supply in the labor market. This is untrue because we have unemployment.
There will always be unemployment in every economic system where employment is at will. The existence of unemployment is not necessarily evidence of lack of demand for labor.
Presumably he doesn't think we need foreign skilled workers. I haven't seen anything proving otherwise.
>(smug)
Shit post
No, but an increase in the supply of labor will bring the price of labor down. I've drawn a S/D graph so it is easier for you to understand.
I encourage you to study basic economics.
Why would a communist argue for immigration when it decreases the value of labour?
The people who shill for immigration are capitalist business owners.
>Americans have a monopoly on the labor market in America in that they exclude other nationals from entering
That's the fucking point commufag. IT'S OUR FUCKING COUNTRY. We don't want other nationals. That's the entire point.
Because corporations are run by fat cat Jews with mansions and yachts that contribute little to society, whereas the workers are actually productive and should get higher pay.
If you want that labor, move your company. But we will throw a big tariff on you for it for not hiring our countrymen. It is biased. It's even a tad statist, but it's a light socialist policy still allowing for a mostly free market within those boundaries. Pick your poison. This is the trade off for light corporate tax and light regulation, ya dig?
>corporations are run by fat cat Jews with mansions and yachts that contribute little to society
Your logic:
corporations = jobs
corporation owners = no contribution
jobs = no contribution
So... um... you don't want people to have jobs?
>4 posts, no arguments, still following thread
kek
The exact point I've been making is that increasing the supply of labor to deflate the price of labor is not a bad thing.
Congratulations, now you see the hypocrisy from my original post. Why is capitalism good when it increases corporate competition, but not worker competition? You don't really support capitalism, do you?
The price of labour is higher because employers expect higher-quality fork from better educated urban populations. Lack of competition has nothing to do with it, you commie retard. Nearly every job field is more competitive now than it was 20 years ago, something you'd know if you had ever applied for a job.
>The only convincing argument I've seen in the thread
Congrats
>higher-quality fork
They also expect higher quality work btw
No arguments are better than shit 'arguments.'
I'm here to laugh at you and your utter lack of self-awareness, gommie faggot.
Then you should have no problem with open borders, since immigration will have no effect on the high price of labor.
>I'm here to let a commie waste my time
by all means then, stick around lmfao
people aren't a commodity
>(smug)
Again, shit post
Capitalism has nothing to do with immigration. Your argument is invalid. There's plenty of competition within our country already.
>implying immigrants actually get jobs and don't sit about on welfare doing fuck all anything
sage
>Plenty already
That's the type of argument a socialist makes when he's centrally planning. The free market is about letting natural forces work, not saying "there's plenty of competition, no more."
Couldn't you create huge amount of competiton by simply limiting companies from aquring certain sizes, and by having stricter control on companies just buying out other ones before they become competitors, and also have laxer copyright laws so someone can make "better" or just altered versions of other people's products, thus creating competiton by having an "arms race" in which companies attempt to make their product better than all of the others?
Are you suggesting that you would be fine with open borders if there was no welfare? I don't think welfare should exist either.
Competition within americans? im down. other ethnicities are subhuman, don't need or want them.
Yea it does. Non-enforcement means you can pay low and off the books. This a cheaper labor source and thus good for the producer. It's bad for the labor market already here because they can't compete with such low labor costs.
Also why are you all calling this guy a commie? Paying immigrants pennies on the dollar is the most capitalist shit I've heard next to child labor in China.
>Then you should have no problem with open borders, since immigration will have no effect on the high price of labor.
You realize I'm a Canadian, right? Canadian capitalism =/= American capitalism. We face different geopolitical issues. For example, last year, we imported 25,000 "Syrian" refugees (economic migrants from Algeria). The majority of them are still being put up in hotels because due to our standards of education, they cannot find jobs in Ontario. How do these immigrants help our economy? How will importing more of them help our economy? In addition, importing people with values that differ greatly from our own hurts the social capital of a country. People like you who generalize the effects of economic policy without realizing the overarching connections to socio-politics fail to realize the harm they're doing to their own counties. In other words, you're the reason cancerous ideologies like Islam and Cultural Marxism leak into the West and undermine modes of democracy.
it has nothing to do with the economy. it has everything to do with what immigrants bring with them.
The theory is that if you remove patent protections and those types of laws, companies will not invest in new expensive ventures with low success rates (ie, pharmaceuticals) because they'll never coup the costs of failing all those other times unless they have a government-granted monopoly through patents.
The other regulations you mentioned don't sound very free market. You'd be forcing people/corporations to not buy or grow. Better to just make it easy as possible to enter a market, and break up legitimate monopolies once they form.
I am bias in favour of the white man.
Are you retarded? There is no labor monopolies you idiot, by building factory in US you are bound to hire US citizens, if you don't want to hire US citizens you are free to build factory in different country and pay import taxes for selling your product in US.
And they bring cheap labor. I don't see how that's two different things?
If the only thing stopping your weak society is saying "you people can't breed near me," then it deserves to be destroyed. Either develop some other protections or you're going to crumble in a matter of time anyways.
*stopping your weak society from dying
Sometimes it's easier to create new products than improve old ones, so even without strict copyright laws, economy will thrive.
If you limit the size of corporations, you can essentially free up spots for other companies to rise. Surely this would boot economy?
>If you limit the size of corporations, you can essentially free up spots for other companies to rise.
Yes but it's basically corporate egalitarianism. Some companies, like people, are better than others, and will do better. Why punish them by saying they can't achieve more? It's only when they begin cheating via monopoly should they be punished.
Cheap labor means cheap products, but we already have a plethora of cheap production sources overseas. I'm okay with them out-competing us in the "shitty McDonald's toys" area of production. Pay workers just a bit more and have higher quality products and you can raise the price of products, making more or at least offsetting losses by prioritizing quality over quantity. Plus you have the added, non-economic bonus of an artistic Renaissance.
immigration does NOT mean more production. This isn't the fucking 1900s anymore. We have automation that is more efficient and replaces a lot of shitty manual labor jobs.
God fucking damn get with the times
We have already more than enough people to function around automated jobs, WE DON'T NEED MORE.
>implying the authentic Canadians weren't bred out by the Chinese two decades ago
sirry fat american, rittre does he know
It's not as if they can't achieve great sums of money while limited, it just makes sure that no one company in particular has complete control over one section in economy.
Can I bring ideologies into this and say what I am? I want to rub it in everyone's faces. I like that kinda thing.
Now we run into where politics and economics meet.
You can't have political boundaries without having economic boundaries. If you try having one without the other you eventually create the idiotic clusterfuck we're all trying to cope with today.
You can't have monopolies in the US, dumbass
Wait you honestly think that the downfall of america is going to be a lack of immigration? You sir are misguided. As long as we have the large number of unemployed americans looking for jobs, we won't need immigration. Not to mention the menial tasks that most immigrants do can be automated.
Um, no they don't. They get paid the same minimum wage as the people whose jobs they are taking. The only significant things they are bringing with them are crime and drugs. (Those things are significantly BAD, not GOOD, in case you can't figure that out.)
you really diont have idea how shit works in political economies. When you are producing products of any kind, the MNC, or multi-national corporations, are looking for places where they can obtain the best price, but at the same time, the quality of education must be decent enough for the MNC to decide to invest there. What you dont grasp is the USA has plenty of decent workers to supply the demand of the MNCs without raising too much the value of their products. The other issue is the excessive taxation in the USA for companies who want to invest in the country. Also, if the companies start to come back, the government gets more money by taxing people than companies, so giving the MNCs tax breaks is ideal to promote investments. Wages will increase, and the economy will flourish again.
>H1Bs
>skilled
LOL, tell me another.