Student in my class debates anarchist professor

My English professor was discussing Marxism and essentially said that it's up to you do determine whether or not Marxism is good.

One of the students, who I presume may be a Sup Forums user, challenged the professor's assertions, saying that Marxism is objectively evil. A debate ensued.

The student said that Marxism has led to the deaths of millions. The professor countered the claim by saying that capitalism has led to the deaths of millions. He specifically noted America bombing Japan, the Vietnam war, and Cambodia conflicts.

The student became a stuttering mess. I felt bad for him, but I didn't want to challenge the professor because I didn't want to be graded more harshly for having conflicting view points.

The debate ended with the professor saying that capitalism is essentially on par with Marxism in terms of brutality and morality. He cited that true capitalism allows poor people to die off which is no worse than killing them deliberately because you are systematically killing the poor people under capitalism.

What would you guys have said to this professor?

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>what would you have said
what about an alternative to both?

that my freedom to choose my own path in a free and open society vastly outweighs the rigid constraints of any authoritarian dictatorship. I would rather have a chance to be successful based on my efforts than achieve gibsmedats under marxist ideology.

I feel like citing death is a cheap move, as death happens under all systems, but can all of those deaths be directly attributed to that system?

>NRx

>sexually objectifying white school girls
looks like the Marxist globalist lessons are working fine on you

>comparing fucking up your enemies in war to being ruled over by jews who massacre tens of millions

marxists/anarchists confirmed for retarded

bombing is because of war and politics, not capitalism.

That's exactly what I was thinking. It made me contemplate: are all those 100 million deaths under communism really a repercussion of communism? Was it because of an authoritative dictator like Stalin which resulted in all these deaths and not the ideology itself?

Who the fuck cares about deaths? Seriously it's a retarded metric. What you should care about is the dysgenic breeding that occurs under socialism and marxism. What you should care about is the institutionalization of parasitism on productive classes to redistribute downwards and create an ever-growing, ever stupifying easily controlled lower class at the expense of your more intelligent classes.

Do you think any ideology pol memes about will ever be implemented without the blood of 10's of millions being spilled?

ask your professor if he gets the difference between war and starving your own people for profit

He probably would have said that you can be systemically eradicate by corporate elites.

So the professor didn't actually defend marxism?
He just succumbed to whataboutism?
Sounds like your professor is a fucking idiot.

I was thinking about this too, but then the same argument can be made for communism.

You could also argue that capitalist America was looking to exploit other countries for resources.

That I want freedom. That's the thing the sperates them both. You can make your own little commie communal farm out in the woods but don't get mad if it fails because your not going to force people against there will to work with you.

but the point is we killed foreigners and americans lives were made better. jews killed russians and made their lives worse

Alternative...

For Deutchland?

except communism is about giving the government control to kill you while capitalism is about giving corporations control to kill you.

He'd say that you are advocating your own eradication by allowing the rich elite to exploit you to death.

Yes, he essentially said both systems are flawed.

People dying as a consequence of capitalism has nothing to do with capitalism and everything to do with how retarded they are.

a fucking leaf

All lives matter

That was my professor's point, basically.

The Marxism idea is good but it won't work because humans are jealous, envy someone, crave property, want to be different (better) than others.

How would animals end if they would not pick always the strongest and healthiest but every shitty lion gets to fuck the female lion once

McDonalds can come and kill me?

>not pandering to lazy niggers is the same as deliberately murdering them

This is why I left college.

Liberalism is the inability the think hierarchically.

"Communism and capitalism are merely opposing theories, making each the same, and neither greater than the other." - Liberal

Conservatives draw upon experience and logic to identify the merits of each.

The bombing of Japan was about fascism. The Vietnam war was as much about communism as it was about capitalism. The Cambodia conflict was one in which lunatic commies slaughtered their own people before being invaded by less insane commies.

easiest answer for a marxist tho

But the argument was about Marxism, right?
So they should talk about Marxism, bringing up something else isn't an argument, it's a distraction because he can't defend it.

How can anarchy work if there is no government meaning no organization?

LEFTYPOL DISCORD IS IN TURMOIL .

STRIKE WHILST THE IRON IS HOT
discord.gg/6GykxQ2 - /leftypol/ Discord. A server for open discussion of far-left politics consisting of mostly Communists and Anarchists.


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the point of a government is to defend it's people and try to bring up living conditions. communism the the exact opposite.

people are going to die either way. wouldn't you rather have your government killing foreigners and not your countrymen? isn't communism objectively worse for the people inside the country, while capitalism is worse for people outside the country?

This professor is clearly an uneducated fuckhead equating the actions of governments with "muh capitalism".
True capitalism is non-interventionist, because it's an ideology of mutual agreement and without any regulations. The market will fix issues.

What this faghead described as
>muh capitalism deaths
have been nothing but ideological conflicts (nazis, communists, communists), resulting death and destruction.

You're a fucking pussy OP and you're the reason universities are in the anti intellectual rut they're in

>Debating Marxism in a linear algebra class

THICC

Kids are hoes these days.

You should have gone full powerlevel and called her out on her shit

>False dichotomy

Why can't both capitalism and Marxism be evil?

That's right goy, everyone richer than you is also smarter than you, so don't even bother challenging them.

>I didn't want to challenge the professor because I didn't want to be graded more harshly for having conflicting view points.
You're a coward and not worth responding to.

I'd tell him to check these digits.

Capitalism only has a large death toll only because a super majority of the world is capitalist. Meanwhile there have have been few communist countries and they have the same amount of deaths. Now imagine if most of the world was communist? There probably would be deaths in the billions.

Capitalism has in no way shape of form killed as many as communism. Nations kill for political or resource driven reasons, not for capitalism. We have never once invaded a country because we wanted to force them to buy more Adidas. Marxism has explicitly and intentionally killed hundreds of millions for the for the crime of not being Marxist. People can twist meanings all they want but at the end of the day Marxism is objectively evil. Find me a writing from Adam Smith declaring anyone who refuses to exchange goods and services should be purged.

I don't know much about either system, but if I remember correctly, marxism has expectations of humans that can't be fulfilled, as people tend to seek to advance or rise above their peers in order to feel like they are accomplishing something.

capitalists kill foreigners in wartime, marxists kill their own people in peacetime

Why is a professor that openly espoused Marxism allowed to remain employed at the university?

How many fascist professors do they employ I wonder

>thinking Marxism is anti-capitalism
Capitalism is a form of government practice dominated by the ultra-rich, facilitated by money.

Every country that has adopted Marxism has continued to use money, and continued to have an elite, ultra-rich 1% at the top, centrally-planning the state.

Marx himself even said that Marxism is the natural result of capitalism. Marxism is basically capitalism on steroids, in which the capitalists completely take over the government, moving from being lobbyists to actual legislators and the executive.

The debate is moot.

The problem with a lot of right wingers is that similar to the left, they don't bother to fully back up their beliefs, the exact reason Jontron got destroyed by Destiny.
If you're prepared to debate lefties, you have to prepare yourself by questioning any talking point or counterpoint that you can provide. If you can find a gap in your knowledge, you can be damn sure some lefty eventually will and they WILL use it to make you look like a complete fool.

Leaving aside the war shit, could've gone with "what good has communism done".
Capitalism has objectively lifted millions of people out of abject poverty, and you can site the UN's war on poverty in support of that.

You could maybe argue that communism 'forced' technologically backwards Russia and China into the modern playing field, but then you're arguing that all that did was get them close to a level playing field with the capitalists, so it's not a great argument.

By the way, good luck. Lay low; the time for conservatives to prevail isn't in college, it's in reality.

>communists keep fucking up food production
>Venezuela most recent example
>capitalism is just as bad ok

If you want to know why one is banned and not the other, ask yourself which one was invented and spread by Jews

>teaching a German-Jewish ideology largely associated with Slavs and the Chinese, and has never been attempted in an English-speaking country
>My English professor
Tell that nigger to stay on-subject.

fucking idiot there has never been marxism or communism on this planet. How about you read a book like "Das Kapital".

>What would you guys have said to this professor?

Capitalism has lifted more people out of poverty than communism EVER has.

I would also ask him to explain why the standards of living and life expectancy are all higher in capitalist countries than in communist countries.


>He cited that true capitalism allows poor people to die off which is no worse than killing them deliberately because you are systematically killing the poor people under capitalism.

No it's not lel. How the hell does me refusing to give my money to poor people equate to me putting a bullet in the back of someone's head because they don't want to give up their property?

This, and there are communists infiltrators in the education systems, look up "the long march through the institutions"

Communist countries all have a thing where they massacre millions of their own people. Capitalist countries don't do this. They may go to war against an enemy and kill civilians, but they do not kill their own people.

But if you want to look past this little detail, look into how effective and efficient the two economic systems are. Communism literally reduced Russia to cannibalism. Such an economic catastrophe that Eastern Europe has not yet recovered. Millions were fleeing to the West, crawling over barbed wire and broken glass. Even hijacking planes to force them to land in Western countries.

Capitalism meanwhile has cut the poverty rate in China from 80% to 15% in under 30 years. It's raising India out of the mud. It's developed much of South America. It hasn't done much for Africa, admittedly, but this is an impossible task anyway if you're not willing to consider eugenics.

The idea that communism is even in the same weight class as capitalism is retarded

you do realise that its called socialism the first step towards communism or marxism lol

> He cited that true capitalism allows poor people to die off which is no worse than killing them deliberately because you are systematically killing the poor people under capitalism.

You could counter that by telling him to go shoot a homeless man in the head. After all, he's being neglected to die by the cruel capitalist society, what difference does it make if you speed things up. That argument doesn't even support itself.

>Marxism killed millions DOMESTICALLY as a result of their DOMESTIC policies towards food, speech and security
b-b-b-but what about all the people killed in wars?!?

Classic "but they are lynching negroes in America" argument.

Fun facts: there were ~5000 lynchings in the US from 1880 - 1970

Pol Pot ALONE killed 1.5-3 million of his own people from 1974 - 1979.

FUCK OFF COMMIE SCUM

Oh boy it's the "my particular brand of communism has never been tried before" episode again.

Fine true capitalism has never been tried before either. Checkmate.

Not to mention the fact that those "deaths under capitalism" are relatively indirect and spread over many many decades and a multitude of different societies. There are fewer examples of communism and they have only been around a century but they don't let that stop them matching the bodycount. And the means by which this is undertaken is usually pretty direct.

>Marxism is objectively bad
>Capitalist is as bad as -
>Fallacious argument, invalid argument

>Islam is evil
>Christian killed als-
>Fallacious, invalid.

This is the argument of those who don't have arguments.
One evil/good don't interfere necesary with another one. One evil/good don't necesary triggers another counter evil/good.
Your professor is an idiot.

>What would you guys have said to this professor?

"Why is an English professor discussing Politics in class? This has nothing to do with the curriculum"

>America bombing Japan, the Vietnam war
Neither of these were results of capitalism. They were the results of America defending their geopolitical prerogative against powerful rivals (Empire of Japan, Soviet Union). Similar wars would have fought regardless of the ideologies of the two parties.

This.

It's a false equivalence to compare the two as though they are both systems with the same goals.

Communism is to a hospital as capitalism is to a dirt lot. If the hospital is killing people that's bad since it's counter to what the hospital is supposed to do. If people are dying in the dirt lot that sucks but preventing people from dying is not the dirt lots intent.

>actual serious discussion
I'm proud Sup Forums

>allows poor people to die off
Except poverty has rapidly declined under Capitalism on a scale never before seen in history, especially not under any Socialist government.

Capitalism has been the sanpo of wealth creation and the establishment of civilization, period. Socialism is a pathetic and pale imitation of natural economic growth.

Also the comparison of deaths is laughable. Why is it that Somolians starving to death is the fault of US Capitalists and not Venezuelan Socialists? Why is it that people in Zimbabwe living in poverty is the fault of US Capitalists and not Cuban Socialists? I hear Leftists say often that Anarchy is inherently Left-Wing, if so doesn't that make failed states Socialist by definition? Wouldn't that make these collapses THEIR fault and not ours? Look at every country saved from poverty in Africa. How many are Socialist?

This is the truth: In societies where free trade is legal and economic freedom is high, people do not starve to death unless their governments put them in camps. Capitalism solves 90% of global sustenance problems. We're not far away from the release of the (privately developed) "Golden Rice" project, which would've saved a million children from death by Vitamin A deficiency per year, every year for the last ten years if Leftist cuckolds hadn't deliberately blocked it from distribution because of their creationist-tier retarded fear of genetically modified crops.

How dare anyone compare Capitalism to Marxism. You have exploitation and crony capitalism and all sorts of villainy in our system but Marxism IS villainy. Its very core tenants virtually demand a system of redistribution which MUST be performed violently. Nobody but an absolute fool could deny this at this point.

The professor is correct, it was a mistake for that alt-right baby to try and debate an intelectual.

A fucking FROG

I would say that the bombing of Japan was done by a nation that happen to have been capitalist, it was actually about global supremacy between two powers. Vietmam was a war to defend a capitalist nation from communism. The Khmer Rouge in Cambodia was communist.

Let's hear it from a real intellectual then

youtube.com/watch?v=OlB_xNOAn1c

Just like marx said capitalism is not particularly something bad. Its like the first step we have to take but once we've reached a point there must be revolution towards socialism and later on to communism.

Isn't the idea on its one just amazing? So far is hasn't worked out anywhere. Socialism has shown that men are corrupt. But the idea on its own is something honorable. Total equality, no poor, no rich, just humans. People get what they actually need and focus on work and improvement of our society and not personal ego needs.

Pls guys just think about it. The whole idea is for normal working class people and not money hungry cunts. Its for you, your dad, your mom, your sister, your brother.

It makes me proud to believe that we maybe can reach that point one day.

>What would you guys have said to this professor?

That's not true. Socialism is an ideology that pre-dates Marx by more than a generation.

Or you really think Hitler was trying to bring about Marxism?

how can an anarchist be a professor? Isn't that some kind of authority figure? How dare he grade anyone else as if he was above them

Pretty sure it's about Stalin drinking beer and eating suckling pig without having to work while I die in Finnland and my mother is raped by the NKVD.

Marx was a criminal Jew and he died in agony, and he deserved every second that he spent gnawing on his floorboards in pain.

It's a pipe dream at best. Human nature doesn't allow for that in a world with finite resources.

East Germany vs West Germany. The same people with two different political/economic systems, compare and contrast.

The whole premise of Marxism is human slavery. Lincoln saw slavery as a form of theft, "you work, I eat." Where the common man is expected to "share" the fruits of his labors with others under the threat of force.

The good thing about Christianity is the whole premise is centered around man being inherently flawed. That there is no making a heaven on earth that will allow for perfection, that sort of thing is possible only through the power of God, not by man. Capitalism provides the incentive of the profit in order for people to innivate, streamlining production and offering a product to the lowest cost for the consumer. It's self motivating and yes, it is an only the strong survive idea, but isn't how we are all here in the first place?

To reach the Anarchy you need to brainwa-, sorry, I meant educate the people.

Professor is right, doesn't mean he's an anrachist. Tribalism is the way forward for common folk.

lolk, so what you be saying is that American Imperialism/WWII killed as many foreigners and Commies killed/starved their own people, eventually imploding? Wow, I'm surprised the student didn't call him out on his bullshit. I guess he didn't lurk hard enough. That false dichotomy should've been called out earlier and the professor would've been the one who sound like the stuttering buffoon. Shame on you for not stepping in to his time of need, OP.

your professor is based, you are a cuck and the other student is an autist

Holy shit this is stupid


First Tally up how many died under stalin in 30 years of his reign


Combine that with every war casualty caused by the US in conflict ijn 100 years.

Their is no comparison

Corporations in the United states dont go around committing genocide for personal interest ( for the most part)

Governments do when it serves their interest and they can get away with it. Any system with solely government and no form of ownership leaves no form of individual power. The only power you can wield is whatever the government allots you, which isnt much when they knowingly do not have too.

I would also call mega bullshit on japan, and vietnam. Those are fucking military conflicts caused for geopoltical reasons. Japan was bombed to end a war the USA didnt start and vietnam whether or not you disagree with the reasons for conflict was to stop a domino effect of collapsing countries that could dangerously affect the United States. Its fucking stupid to blame capitalism because the United States did not want communism. Why not blame the North vietnamese invading their southern neighbour with Soviet support.

The russians killed 10s of millions of their own people to support the security of their communist state. I honestly would be holding myself back from punching your teacher and walking out.

yeah well maybe we need a crisis for people to change their minds, just like in nazi germany.

>killed as many foreigners AS Commies killed/starved their own people*

Bedtime for me

I do recall America holding Japan at gunpoint to start trade, but we didn't massacre anyone. Other than that, capitalism is more about money making evil schemes, rather than power.

>Say they are for the working class
>Haven't worked a day in their lives
>looks down on the blue collar workers and farmers
>Say they are against the "bourgeois" (property owners)
>Bolsheviks get financial support from millionaire jews Olof Aschberg and Joseph Fels to the point they almost went bankrupt
>The very people they say they are against
>Lenin's cabinet of 1917 was made up almost entirely of jews
>All the rebel leaders of the Free Socialist Republic of Germany in 1918 were jews
>The top 1% had almost total control
>Anyone that disagreed with them are killed or sent to work camps for "re-education"
Why are communist hypocrites?

Exactly

>I'm not marking you on whether you're right or wrong, just showing you how enlightened you've become.

>the profit in order for people to innivate, streamlining production and offering a product to the lowest cost for the consumer. It's self motivating and yes, it is an only the strong survive idea, but isn't how we are


It really isnt, I fucking routinely find down syndrome kids learning basic repetitive trades. Yet somehow blacks are so damn oppressed they cant open a book.

Just think about it, why would everyone be content just living the exact same way? Unless everyone lived like kings people would always want something more.

Socialism and Marxism require total trust and a rejection of biologically-hard wired breeding strategies known as resource hoarding. If you want Marxism to work then you must first recreate the human species. Otherwise it accomplishes precisely what it's framers intended for it to do (steal and concentrate all wealth and power into an elite cabal who rule with an iron fist) while gullible and naive children were led to believe it's the cure for everything.

If I sell you an HIV Popsicle but tell you it's a path to immortality, and 100 million plus people have died after eating my Popsicle while seeking that immortality, logic dictates that eventually you fucking idiots would realize I'm a charlatan and stop buying. Especially because my Popsicle never EVER delivers on my promises.

So it goes with Marxism. But you all keep buying it and eating it up.

The difference is that communism is not only an economic system. It is a political and moral system.

It's Islam for Atheism

>Marxism is an HIVsicle
>"Well EVENTUALLY the dialectic will balance out in a utopia."
I LOVE this metaphor.

Magic, obviously

>marxism is objectively evil
>objectively evil

what a stupid opening, don't do this in real life, overusing the word objectively is a bit of a meme to rile people up, not a way to seriously engage a topic

what you inevitably cause with that phrasing is transforming the conversation into an argument over whether both parties fall on the same side of the post-modern critique of truth

generally mao is cited as proof of communism causing mass deaths, but most americans have such a poor grasp on the situation they jump to the conclusion that mao literally had his people murdered. To your general question about how we would try and reason if the cause of the death is ideology or the authoritarian in charge, the largest group of deaths under Maos regimes were caused by a famine, which people will then argue is proof that centralized planning caused the deaths of millions, however if we consider your point, it is reasonable to suggest that with different planners we would have had a different outcome. Given that we lack repeatable experimentation to make any claim on this matter, it is difficult to judge whether a different ruler using the same system would have had a different outcome.

The best way to tackle these issues is to analyze how the system inherently functions, not how it has been used in practice.

>America bombing Japan, the Vietnam war, and Cambodia conflicts
The professor's answer was kind of retarded.
WW2 had nothing to do with capitalism, and arguably at least the first nuke dropped on Japan was justified in ending the war.
The Vietnam War was mostly just America defending the French colony in Vietnam from the native population.
If I were to respond to this professor, I would counter that it is colonialism, not capitalism, that had caused these deaths. I would also caution a distinction between capitalism and monopolies or corporatism when discussing more reasonable objections to capitalism, such as workplace deaths.