MUSLIMS OF Sup Forums, I KNOW YOU EXIST AND I'M CALLING TO YOU

MUSLIMS OF Sup Forums, I KNOW YOU EXIST AND I'M CALLING TO YOU.
Please read the entire thing before posting ITT, otherwise fuck you.

Whenever I try to have a civil discussion with a Muslim about their religion, it always ends in them saying "go read the Quran" or "you don't know what you're talking about because you haven't read the Quran".

I said fuck it, over 3 months, I've read the entire Holy Quran, translated into Roman English by Sunni Sheiks, educated in Saudi Arabia. I even got the Quran I was reading verified by Muslims at my University.

The Quran, was mostly "Follow Allah, verily he knows what is best (for man), and he is surely most gracious, most merciful". I feel like that exact line was repeated atleast 1000 times.

There was good advice in there, and surprisingly, wise views on what an objectively "good" person is.

HOWEVER, the Quran was not without violence, and controversy.

In Surah At TauBah, in the first few verses, it says to "After the holy months (on the Islamic calendar), make your duty, to kill O' Mushrikin (the sinners and disbelievers), seek them and kill them, unless they repent (turn to Islam)".

Now, the Surah does not specify WHO the disbelievers are, which leads me to believe that it means ALL non Muslims, which begs the question; How do you Muslims justify that? What does it mean?

Other urls found in this thread:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kutub_al-Sittah
twitter.com/SFWRedditImages

I guess I'll add now, that if you read between the lines (not literally), you will see how some modern day science, and the Quran correlate, in teachings. However the Quran is discrete about all that, so it took me a while.

It means, one by one, we are conquering your lands, breeding your women and lying about our intentions and you are in the wrong to question this.

From left to right this ink blot looks like a small flaccid penis connected to his sac with an asshole coming out the back.

That's just me though.

having escaped from a muslim nation, i can confirm that quran is shit. islam singlehandedly ruined so many countries what had potential including mine. when is the next crusade?

>MUSLIMS OF Sup Forums,

tl;dr
>sage milo

Are you going to be a faggot and let your prisoner dump island ancestors fuck your mind up, and become just like a goat fucking Isis member, or are you gonna have a discussion?

You have to go back

for a crusade, yes.

What the hell? I've read about 1/2 of the quran. It says the earth is shaped like an egg, and that clouds move in a vaguely similar way to the modern understanding. I also read some other stuff on the other science stuff in it.

By and large, you can chalk this up to happenstance, or the fact that we give people living in 600 AD Mediterranean area too little credit on the science and philosophy they know.

>MUSLIMS OF Sup Forums, I KNOW YOU EXIST AND I'M CALLING TO YOU.
They call themselves "Christians", or "Jews" if they're really comfortable, so try that instead, it will be the same answers.

It says "Allah"
As far as I'm aware, Islam has not been the MAIN cause of most nations collapses. Take Palestine, Syria and Iraq, all Muslim countries, however the conflict was never driven by religion.
Also, how has Islam ruined Canada, I was there last year and it was fine.

> Holy Quran

Imams have made it clear, there is no "HOLY" with the Quran!

LARP detected !

...

I meant stuff like, how their "Fajr" prayer is usually early in the morning, and now medical researchers are discovering that most heart attacks happen during the early hours, and are advising people who are prone to heart attacks to get up early and walk around, Muslims do that anyway.

Or like, with Ramadan, and now scientists saying that fasting is good.
Also I'm pretty sure I read a Hadith where Muhammad said not to eat too much red meat, now we know that it raises cholesterol and shit.
Let em come out of their shells

It's what it said on the front cover you fucking retard
Kek

>MAIN cause of most nations collapses
it doesn't take a conflict for a nation to collapse. if you were to look at muslim countries in general, you would notice a pattern. almost all of them are pretty much closed to change and new ideas, and cannot progress in terms of science and arts. they also tend to be more leaning towards violence, and they pretty much lack all the basic rights such as freedom of speech.
i wasn't talking about canada. i fled TO canada, and it is fine. although, judging by the current policies, i can not say the same thing for its future.

Ah, so it's a heretical, "westernized", Quran?

It's like you're asking to be thrown off a roof...

I guess so, all religious people hate the thought of change though, for fear that it goes against God.
Dubai is pretty nice though, I go there often and see half naked chicks walking around all over.

No, it was translated. I saw another one though and it said the "noble" Quran, they both said the same shit.

well, look at europe. they were able to change and thrive while maintaining a christian majority. can't say the same thing about muslim countries, now can you?
and yes, there are some muslim societies here and there that are doing okay, but it doesn't change the fact that in general, islam had a much worse effect on civilization than christianity ever did. (not defending christianity, i am not a christian)

my gf is a huge protie church goer and even she says that there is nothing good about islam. i hate religion but i especially hate islam, seriously kill yourself u stupid big fucker die

Go read the Quran

This part of surah 9:1-11 refers to treaties and this verse 9:5 specifically to those who break them.

Yeah, but how can you PROVE that Islam is what caused that countries fuck up? Take Africa (the majority of the continent), those boons are not Muslims, most of them aren't anyway, but look at them, fucking filth over there.
And what about Indians, they have a Hindi majority (supposedly the most peaceful religion), and most of India fucking stinks of shit, is without fresh running water, without a proper sewage system...
I don't think it's a religious thing user.

>seriously kill yourself you stupid big fucker die
Did you even read the post you fucking brain dead cunt? I'm not Muslim, I just read the Quran.
Not again
Soooo those living on the holy land then? Those were the only treaties I got

Religion is a factor. But progress for its own sake can be bad. Staying just away from the cutting edge of progress gives you better perspective. Those obsessed with progress will always hate caution. Improving the human condition is more important, which religion does do well. There are examples of Islamic coutries at all levels of development.

Muslim here.

Context must be considered in this situation. Most calls to violence in the Qur'an and hadiths (and yes they do exist) are against the Arab Pagans who persecuted and waged war on the early Muslims of that time. Specific provisions of protection are set out for People of the Book, that is Jews and Christians, who are recognized as completely different than pagans.

If you want to further look at this, check out the historical events afterwards too, the Rashidun Caliphs (closest companions of Muhammad in his lifetime) who were extremely pious and zealous in carrying out Muhammad's teachings sought to provide protection and security for Jews, Christians and even people not of the book like Zoroastrians and other pagans in their empire at the time. Forced conversions by violence, although have happened at times in Islam's early history, were generally rare.

Race has far more implications on economical prosperity than religion does. The Islamic Empires weakened and eventually collapse due to race-mixing with blacks and other groups, leaving behind a permanently tainted mongrel population similar to Latin America or other race-mixed hellholes. The same is happening in the West today.

No, I don't think religion is a factor. It's ONLY just become a factor in Iraq and Syria, because a large portion of the land is controlled by Islamic terrorist groups.

Like with the other guy, how the fuck did Christianity have anything to do with the progress of those countries? It didn't, he's just stating what he thinks happens because it's the easiest answer.

you don't know what you're talking about because you haven't read the Quran

I am not a Muslim but I was raised such so I know what I'm talking about:
"The mushriks" refers not exactly to sinners and disbelievers but those who commit "shirk", a sin in Islam;
>In Islam, shirk (Arabic: شرك širk) is the sin of practicing idolatry or polytheism, i.e. the deification or worship of anyone or anything other than the singular God i.e. Allah. Literally, it means ascribing or the establishment of "partners" placed beside God.
Generally Christians and Jews are not included into "mushriks", Christians can be included more easily though because the trinity concept can be seen as shrik. It all depends on the sect and the muslim himself. It can be easily be read to include all non-muslims except Jews.
Anyway most Muslims would defend this saying that it refers to some particular group of people in Muhammeds time.
In reality the Qoran is chronologically in sync with Muhammeds rise and conquests and the tone of it changes throughout the book. There are also many verses that contradict each other (like what you posted and many peaceful verses). The general acceptance of Islamic sects is to accept the most latest verse if it contradicts.

Yes it was a policy declared during Haj.

I realise times have changed from the 1500 years ago the Quran was first brought to Muhammad, but still.
I have to say though, Islam is made out to be so much worse than it actually is, a lot of the Quran preaches good behaviour among people.

And I guess now there are so many westerners living peacefully in Saudi, UAE, etc, and same thing here in the UK and the USA, with Muslims living peacefully here, that the rule to kill, may no longer apply, even though it's in the Quran.

How can they attack Christians if Mohammed said they couldnt? Doesn't that mean that Erdogans declaration of holy war against the cross means he's claiming superiority over Mohammed?

He'll make Caliph, but he'll take all of Islam to hell with him.

He still hasn't until he's read it in Arabic lol.

That's what I gathered from it too, what made you convert btw?
Makes sense

Kill yourselves

Mohammad was a pedophile warlord and wanted you faggots conquer the world but u cant cuz ure a inbred cousin fucking nigger religion

blablabla Islam isn't a violent religion set on world conquest even tho it is tru facts guis

>Muhammad was a pedophile
Common misconception, Aisha was promised to Muhammad when she was 9, but they didn't marry and fuck until she was older (idk how old, I think 16). But yeah, even the kings of England did that back then, so there's really no place to argue.

Ya guis muslim countries are super great, Islam good religion

Fucking your 13 year old cousin and living in fear and submission to people who believe the middle ages got it right is totally way to go

Much good society, very prosper

You should stop, you're not making a good point and you sound like the retarded American you are.
It's funny how you mention Muslims marry cousins, but red neck amerifats do too, whose side you on fag?

12 in the Sahih Bukhari

That's pedophilia my dude

race is no doubt a factor, but not as big as you think it is, compared to religion at least. arguments such as IQ by race ignore so many factors such as nourishment, level of education. nourishment is a key factor in the development of brain. education is a must as all iq tests (even the most basic ones) require a form of algebra or pattern recognition.
another counter argument can be that evolution is a force towards bare minimum, which means if you reach to the point where you are able to survive in an environment well enough, the rate at which you are evolving will be greatly hampered. from that point on, you can only evolve through random genetic mutations, as the filter of natural selection will cease to exist for you unless you change environments. this makes race and genetics a really minor factor, as even the "worst" human race is able to survive through most environments.
for religion: culture is an important factor, and religion is one of the biggest (if not the biggest) factor in culture. a good example is turkey: after WW1 a wave of secularism took over modern turkey and they were a functioning democracy at that period. however, when the religious lead took over, things went backwards for them real quick, resulting in the shithole they are now. nothing about that country changed except the ruling mindset. population stayed the same, their ethnicity and race stayed the same, only the level of islamic influence in politics have changed for turkey. and i think it speaks for itself.

hurr durr america

I get it, you are a faggot and posting on Sup Forums about shit you know nothing about makes your dad's dick a little easier to take each night

>bukhari
You do realise most Hadith had it fucked up, as in, not all "Hadith" came from Mohammed therefor it's not Hadith my man

EVERYBODY BEWARE
WE ARE AT SHIILLCON 1 (or at least 2)

Go home leaf

MUH IQ LOW CUZ NOOTRITION NO EDUCASION

Adult IQ is 75% heritable fag fucker

Go back to your country. We can do without inbred genetic trash in white countriies.

...

>something you know nothing about
Yeah, and you totally sound like a expert the way you're going on. Get back to 7th grade amerifat, or don't because you might get caught up in a school shooting

Chronologically, Aisha was 19. Hadith are allowed to contradict each other. They are valued according to transmission from the time, not necessarily accuracy.

all of the "fasting, getting up early and not eating too much meat" is in the bible too

islam is an attempt and counter to christianity

lol SAHIH Bukhari

The most highly regarded Hadith,

Sunni Muslims view the six major hadith collections as their most important. They are (The order of authenticity varies between the Madhhabs):[5]

Sahih Bukhari, collected by Imam Bukhari (d. 256 AH, 870 CE), includes 7,275 ahadith
Sahih Muslim, collected by Muslim b. al-Hajjaj (d. 261 AH, 875 CE), includes 9,200 ahadith
Sunan Abu Dawood, collected by Abu Dawood (d. 275 AH, 888 CE), includes 4,800 ahadith
Jami al-Tirmidhi, collected by al-Tirmidhi (d. 279 AH, 892 CE), includes 3,956 ahadith
Sunan al-Sughra, collected by al-Nasa'i (d. 303 AH, 915 CE), includes 5,270 ahadith
Either:

Sunan ibn Majah, collected by Ibn Majah (d. 273 AH, 887 CE), over 4,000 ahadith
Muwatta Malik, collected by Imam Malik (d. 179 AH, 795 CE), 1,720 ahadith [6]

The first two, commonly referred to as the Two Sahihs as an indication of their authenticity, contain approximately seven thousand hadiths altogether if repetitions are not counted, according to Ibn Hajar.[7]

Do you Kittub al-Sittah you faggot? Why not take your sister's dick out of your mouth and learn what the fuck you are talking about?

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kutub_al-Sittah

Idc, even if she was 16, 16 is LEGAL in the uk right now looool

she was 12 when Mohammad raped her

I'm not religious by nature and Islam also sucks as a religion

Well, same God amarite?
Why are you so angry, I can smell your neck flap grease from here

Prove it

Religion - No matter how thin you slice it, it's still baloney.

Niggers I invented islam generals for trolling wtf is this shit

Nigger fight me IRL

I will 360 no scope

Good luck taking that Somali dik in Londonistan

Can't wait for your family t get enriched

I can't ciz she was actually 9

Narrated Hisham's father: Khadija died three years before the Prophet departed to Medina. He stayed there for two years or so and then he married 'Aisha when she was a girl of six years of age, and he consumed that marriage when she was nine years old.
Sahih Bukhari 5:58:236

nice argument. some really nice reasoning here.
i haven't said IQ has nothing to do with race, i just said the influence is minimal. race, no doubt gives an IQ cap, we have no reason to think otherwise. but it is up to environmental factors for you to be able to reach that cap. and the need of education is an argument that you can't simply ignore. IQ tests require educational knowledge, and the test results will not be able to reflect the true racial cap if the person lacks the minimum education level. i would also like to hear your reasoning or nutrition as well.
for africans living in western civilizations: they retain their culture, and that culture sadly does not value science and mathematics as other cultures do, resulting in a lack of activity on those departments during childhood, which are crucial in development.
africans who are adopted by white parents and raised in cultures that value such things show surprisingly high level of IQ. there are many papers on this and i strongly urge you to check it out.

suck me off goatfuckers

Muslims always do the same shit

First they say that islam is the religion of peace. And you point out how violent muslims are.
Then they say that these people aren't real muslims, and don't follow the
quran. Then you point out all the violent parts of the quran.
Then they tell you that you're just cherrypicking and taking things out of context. And so you read the entire piece of shit and come to the same conclusion that the quran is violent as fuck.
Then they tell you that the english translation you read is bad, and you can only truly understand the quran if you read it in arabic

And I'm sure even if I fucking learned arabic to read the authentic version, they'd come up with some other excuse like "oh, well you haven't studied the quran for 20 years and become an imam and know every intricacy, and you actually just don't understand what these passages are actually saying!"

Don't believe your lying eyes, kuffar

kys lmao

>i haven't said IQ has nothing to do with race, i just said the influence is minimal.

So a standard deviation difference between whites and blacks is minimal? gotcha good job leaf

Trudeau needs his nuts tickled by a nice twink such as yourself, y not go help him out?

Australia is true hero of this thread

Most Muslims, including Arabs don't understand the classic arabic that's in the quran

>First they say that islam is the religion of peace.
Only politicians say that. Not one Muslim says that.Get out of your bubble. Islam is fully capable of war. This is smart on their part.

U summed it up so well user! So fuckin true

I feel like u put my thoights into words better than i could

screencap for posterity

Is that why u guys fuck your cousiins and have retard babies?

Oh you sweet summer child. How many muslims do you even have to put up with in Ozland? Where I live, they're fucking everywhere. And believe me, they actually DO shill he "islam is peaceful" shit and hope all the whites are dumb and naive enough to believe them.

True, but a lot of Muslims do say that its a religion of peace, like the Imams at Al Azhar University and other such shit skins

Pic looks like a cock and balls KEK

well, the muslims make up their own god different than the bible's, but they pretend it's the same one.

Probably. While the Quran technically allows you to marry cousins, it is not encouraged. Inbreeding is inhereted from tribal culture not Islamic. The bible allows it too.

you cant categorize the tests by just black and white. there are too many factors. do you know what a controlled environment is? the thing that is crucial for making experiments and drawing scientific conclusions? well, in this case it is simply impossible. i encourage you to check the studies done on the IQ's of non-white individuals raised in an western culture. it is the closest we are ever going to get to a controlled environment.
vice versa: abandon a white baby to a poor couple in ethiopia, wait for 30 years, and put him through and IQ test, see how well he does.
can you understand this simple concept?

¿denbts to islum!

¡hola sharia!

ay ay eee!

Well, Islam is capable of peace, but also capable of war. To say it is pacifist religion is definately a lie, but I dont see anyone saying this. It is a bit of a strawman. The Quran is not a pacifist scripture, this is obvious.

sage grows in optional fields

kys

I'm a hijabi lmao. I'm like dumb as fuck about the religion though, it's not that big a part of my life. If I was white I'm sure I'd be a flaky ~spiritual but not religious~ girl instead of a flaky hijabi

As a Muslim, I do not encourage violence against non-believers. Most close friends would say I'm almost close to a non-believer. Most of my beliefs were ingrained while I was growing up and raised by grandparents, and they were who taught me right and wrong. I later found out that my grandfather was a "Muslim"; he never practiced nor preached it.

That being said, people give me weird looks when I have said I was Muslim in the past, so now I say I'm from the Middle East. Not sure if that's any worse or better...

This is a muslim trick to make us think islam is ok...it's not bad as all religions are inherently good but it's not our team and as the wise man said in American history X...NOT WELCOME

Okay m8 what do you wnat?

You read the Quran and found some things you don't like (So What) it's not like you will change how Muslims think, every religious scripture of the time has something like that it's just how things were back then, sure you have your isis and al-qaedas that take those religious scripture to the extreme but they are still a minority within us, and yeah there are those extremist sympathizers that will say bullshit like "gays are not humans", and they may not be much of minority as the extremist but they are mostly harmless.

You may ask yourself "Why do Muslims have more extremist then other religions?"

I tell you to look at the bigger picture and see how much suffering the Muslim world has endured, and then think for yourself.

I can't spake speak for all Muslims but i know in the end, they just want to live out their lives normally, So don't think too much into it.

you are right. i've tried explaining that on this board, but i just get replied to by KKK members with very erroneous graphs from 1995

is that a picture of a muslim transgender

2 tits, balls on the chin, and a muslim beard on the top

suffering? you people have been terrorizing the middle east since muhammad. do you really believe israel is yours? give me a break. let me guess, the crusades was just a terrorist plot by bigoted catholics?

Muhammad is a pig fucker also goats.. Also he is a false god

Deus Vult

Also saged

funny how it is, Sup Forums has always been autistic, but it used to change and develop. now if you say anything against the norm, the thread devolves mindless screeching.

Maybe you should nuke us then.

Having read the whole thing, what are your thoughts on Taqiyya? Do you believe that western muslims take advantage of taqiyya to defend their faith?

i sure do hahahahaha.

Thats a good point, its impossible to separate people by race...i mean how could you even tell black and white people apart?

Its not like the black white IQ gap has been studied for over 50 years or anything, if that were the case, it would be hard to declare it doesn't exist! LOL

I like this point too

>If you give a white kid to starvinf ethiopeans he will have low IQ

That proves there is no black white IQ gap

Sure the APA disagrees, sure the editors of Intelligence disagree

Sure the Army, Public Schools, The College Board, and the NIH disagree

But its still true cuz I'm a Leaf on Sup Forums!

Also, twin studies don;t exist, the Minnesota Transracial adoption Study doesn;t exist

You should consider suicide, Allah wills it, i have the Hadith to back it up

Also, tits or GTFO

same, I'll go back to India in a heartbeat if we get there by retaking Pakistan

Do you believe Mohammad was the model of a perfect man and whatever he did cannot be forbidden?

If not, you are not a Muslim

If so, you are lower than an animal

don't say no bullshit that you've been suffering and facing persecution lmao.

Explain what? Bull shit?

All IQ studies control for enviroment

Obviously if SES or Nutrition were to blame for Black/White IQ gap then the gap wouldn't hld constant at all income levels, but it does faggot

Take that dick out of your ears and put it back in your mothers ass where it belongs