How could the "Sonderkommandos" do what they did? I mean, burning your own friends? Helping the nazis? I understand they had to do it in order to survive, but that was WAY too much for any sane person to do.
If I was in the same position, I would probably try to kill at least 1 nazi guard, even if it resulted in me being killed.
The following video shows what I'm talking about:
Other urls found in this thread:
nizkor.org
en.wikipedia.org
quora.com
ushmm.org
avalon.law.yale.edu
matthewsenvironmentalsolutions.com
cremationorburial.org
quora.com
quora.com
jewishvirtuallibrary.org
reddit.com
reddit.com
ihr.org
ihr.org
en.wikipedia.org
goodreads.com
en.wikipedia.org
twitter.com
"basically everyone in the concentration camps followed along. not resisting, just following along to their own death.
random user: I would have resisted! I'm would have been a hero! bla bla...
really?"
-is something I would have said when the holocaust was actually a real thing :^)
The burned bodies were real. Groups of jews were used to do this under Himmler's order.
And most jews didn't know they were to be killed, so very few resistance movements happened.
and you wouldn't have known either
even the people that knew that they were going to die just gone along. just with the hope that if they survive just until tomorrow something/someone might save them
I'm not talking about normal jews, but the ones that helped the nazis to kill their fellow jews, and then burned the bodies. How could you have the strength to do that?
bump
same thing i guess. the sonderkommands were probably just a little bit of extra lifetime with the hope that maybe in a few days the russians liberated the KZ or something
maybe most thought that you didn't get killed at all as long as you do that job. if a lot of people would refuse to do it, it would only be a more attractive thing for the ones that are willing since they know they aren't as easy to replace and therefore have much better chance of surviving
(and your capable of doing a lot of horrible shit if you're:
starving
got tortured
are in general completely desensitized to shit like that, because its going on all around you all day)
Good explanation.
Anyways, if I had to do the things the video I posted showed, I would have probably tried to escape or simply killed myself. Too much for me.
Thanks for your answer.
btw do u actually don't believe in the Holocaust?
>implying the holocaust ever happened
>OHHH MOOOWHY GOOOWADDD ITS ANNUDDA SHOWA!
Argentina YES!
>How could the "Sonderkommandos" do what they did?
You mean lie through their teeth?
>nizkor
How many times does that shitty site have to be debunked?
The holocaust didn't happen but it will for real.
yeah, but i dont think so.
I mean I like to think of myself the same way, but in reality basically everyone would just go along. I mean history has kind of shown it. Yet everyone likes to say: I would have been in the resistance/I would ahve tried to kill Hitler/...
No probably not. Its was an incredible small percentage of people that actually did those things. I can hope, but I probably won't be one of them.
no i think it happened
There you have all your arguments debunked, pair of retards:
en.wikipedia.org
True. I don't know how I would react, but I'm sure I wouldn't be able to live in a place where I'm constantly seeing my friends getting killed and then burned, all the time. At least I would try suicide.
>cover your face they'll see you
Someone explain this?
I think he meant that he should cover his mouth in order to prevent the guards to notice that they were speaking, and probably "conspirating" against them.
>let's start a thread dedicated to asking questions
>wikipedia is a source
>presupposing the truth, then working backwards and using "how dare you disagree" gotchyas like "denier, denier!" is an argument
Sad!
Burden of proof is on you. "But where did the Jews go?"=/=concrete evidence pointing to ONLY mass gassings/cremation, "well here's a euphemistic telegram; we can also dismiss all other queries for proof, just stop at this"=/=mass gassings/cremation, "well, he swears he saw it; also, let's stop right here and not ask any more questions"=/=evidence for mass gassings/cremations within the timeframe/outlining the methodology and showing how it is logically feasible.
???
>Wikipedia is not evidence
>This Youtube video is
>All these scientific articles are not true, they were all paid!!!
>Let's trust this negationist blog!
Retard. Holocaust Denial shouldn't be illegal, because you can't make stupidity illegal.
Oh look its annuda holohoax denial thread.
Signatures of the death orders aren't forged as handwriting is easily traced to its respective owner.
Holocaust denial has always been "4dalulz." As for the true number it might be around 5.8 million instead.
Agreed. The estimated number is between 5 and 6 million.
Holocaust deniers usually deny the Holocaust just because they hate Jews. Personally I don't like Jews, but that doesn't mean I'll deny the goddamm Holocaust.
>Wikipedia is not evidence
No, because Wikipedia is a compilation of sources edited selectively, in alignment with the status quo.
>This Youtube video is
Please quote the post where I linked to a video, please. Otherwise, you are presupposing the conclusion, then working backwards to try and frame me. Similar to your unsubstantiated conspiracy theories of mass gassings/cremations.
>All these scientific articles are not true, they were all paid!!!
Appealing to the authority/source of the claim over the content is not an argument, it is logically fallacious.
>Let's trust this negationist blog!
Please quote the post where I linked to a blogpost, please. Otherwise, you are presupposing the conclusion, then working backwards to try and frame me. Similar to your unsubstantiated conspiracy theories of mass gassings/cremations.
>Holocaust Denial shouldn't be illegal, because you can't make stupidity illegal.
Arguing against the source of the claim over presenting evidence for your assertions is not an argument, it is logically fallacious.
Then present your evidence.
Quick reminder: Burden of proof is on you. "But where did the Jews go?"=/=concrete evidence pointing to ONLY mass gassings/cremation, "well here's a euphemistic telegram; we can also dismiss all other queries for proof, just stop at this"=/=mass gassings/cremation, "well, he swears he saw it; also, let's stop right here and not ask any more questions"=/=evidence for mass gassings/cremations within the timeframe/outlining the methodology and showing how it is logically feasible.
I already showed the evidence. The Wikipedia article debunked all the holocaust deniers arguments. Can you now provide your sources? :)
There you have your "non wikipedia" sources:
quora.com
>War and Remembrance is an American miniseries based on the novel of the same name written by (((Herman Wouk)))
A Jew produced film based on a Jew written book. That wouldn't be biased at all....Right?
It's not like they would lie to us goyim.
Could it be biased? Of course, just like Spielberg's films. Does that mean it didn't happen? No.
Wikipedia is not a source, but I will analyze the claims because the assertion is what matters.
>Mel Mermelstein wrote a letter to the editors of the LA Times and others including The Jerusalem Post. The IHR wrote back, offering him $50,000 for proof that Jews were, in fact, gassed in the gas chambers at Auschwitz. Mermelstein, in turn, submitted a notarized account of his internment at Auschwitz and how he witnessed Nazi guards ushering his mother and two sisters and others towards (as he learned later) gas chamber number five.
I'll remind you again: Burden of proof is on you. "But where did the Jews go?"=/=concrete evidence pointing to ONLY mass gassings/cremation, "well here's a euphemistic telegram; we can also dismiss all other queries for proof, just stop at this"=/=mass gassings/cremation, "well, he swears he saw it; also, let's stop right here and not ask any more questions"=/=evidence for mass gassings/cremations within the timeframe/outlining the methodology and showing how it is logically feasible.
>Holocaust denial is widely viewed as failing to adhere to principles for the treatment of evidence
As opposed to... the Nuremberg trials, the pillar of evidence: avalon.law.yale.edu
The link is more so an outline of the history, not really rebuking the arguments. The sole point (The Holocaust was well documented by the bureaucracy of the Nazi government itself) is, in itself, is dismissing any other queries, asking us to take "mainstream historians" at face value, as if theirs is an objective field.
You need evidence for it, though. For example, start with proof of millions gassed and then cremated. Where is the proof of the millions upon millions of bodies? If they were cremated, by what methodology? If it takes around one hour to cremate a body and a minimum of 1 million BTUs to cremate a body, how, then, could the Third Reich's ovens magically defy the laws of thermodynamics and ignore the limiting factors (fuel consumption, efficiency, BTU requirements for cremation, surface area for the reactions to occur)?
(matthewsenvironmentalsolutions.com
Real or not, I suggest you to research the Wiemar Republic and the history of the Chosen people.
The Culture of Critique is a great book that might help further the red pill.
>Does that mean it didn't happen? No.
What exactly happened? As far as I know the story changes pretty often. At one point Auschwitz had a plaque of 4 imllion.
You've already linked that. So the Nazis never denied it; ergo, this means they did it? Such a monstrous claim, but this is the best evidence?
You don't deny your murder and plead the fifth, so you are sent to prison because "well, you didn't deny it!"
Are you familiar with the Fifth Amendment in the Constitution of the United States? That isn't an argument for guilt.
>If I was in the same position, I would probably try to kill at least 1 nazi guard, even if it resulted in me being killed
no you fucking wouldn't. easy to say that when you don't have a gun pointed at your face. the human instinct to survive is the strongest of all. nice to imagine yourself being a fearless martyr but in reality you wouldn't try shit because any sign of resistance or insubordination was met with immediate death. not just for yourself, but for your family, friends and fellow prisoners.
I would rather die on my feet than live on my knees. Jews are naturally subservient if that is their instinct, to allow conquerers to just walk on in. The weak should fear the strong. Islam will conquer your continent if you act like cowards.
>still no response
Great evidence you got there.
>Burden of proof is on you.
Yes its called the courts and trials of Nuremberg for starters. Its your job to prove the signatures wrong, as for guilt on the german operators. You're ignoring the documents which proved the numbers(counts/names/lists/items), and the respective signatures. Again, this is how germans were proven guilty in the courts, testimonies/pictures were not the final proof, nor used as hard evidence. Were the trials biased? Of course, however the signatures and written orders were not forged. Ergo, holocaust did happen.
>Yes its called the courts and trials of Nuremberg for starters.
avalon.law.yale.edu
What a standard of objectivity.
>Its your job to prove the signatures wrong, as for guilt on the german operators. You're ignoring the documents which proved the numbers(counts/names/lists/items), and the respective signatures.
Actually, no. It's your job to link your evidence and provide evidence for your assertion. Essentially, draw it all full circle. I cannot refute Russel's teapot, you need to prove it exists to begin with.
>Again, this is how germans were proven guilty in the courts, testimonies/pictures were not the final proof, nor used as hard evidence.
Glad we agree.
>Were the trials biased? Of course, however the signatures and written orders were not forged
You know, these two things contradict each other. A biased court does not report on evidence that rebukes the claims, it will only report what it wishes to report, as per article 19.
>Ergo, holocaust did happen.
Because there are documents that hint towards a conclusion=/=proof for that conclusion. If there are logical pitfalls or you are incapable of proving the feasibility of your claims, then the assertion is abandoned.
Let's start with an easy one, given the multitude of evidence. I am familiar with the records from Topf indicating their cremation rates, but are they possible/did they actually happen?
If it takes around one hour to cremate a body and a minimum of 1 million BTUs to cremate a body, how, then, could the Third Reich's ovens magically defy the laws of thermodynamics and ignore the limiting factors (fuel consumption, efficiency, BTU requirements for cremation, surface area for the reactions to occur)?
(matthewsenvironmentalsolutions.com
Daily reminder that Argentina is one of the countries with the most jews in the world, so when you see one of these threads started by one of us, its most likely a kike
>Read the other answers in Quora, ffs
Population wordplay. "well, where did the Jews go, then? Obviously, they were all cremated and gassed".
Deportation is now equivalent to mass gassings? Got it.
More appeals to eye-witness. You just proved the existence of God, by the way. Lots of people claim to have seen God=proof of God.
>quora.com
Nobody denies that there is archaeological proof to a degree, because obviously people died. However, this does not prove millions died as per the methodology you put forth. Dead bodies=/=death by cremation/gassing.
>jewishvirtuallibrary.org
>Let's start with an easy one, given the multitude of evidence. I am familiar with the records from Topf indicating their cremation rates, but are they possible/did they actually happen?
If it takes around one hour to cremate a body and a minimum of 1 million BTUs to cremate a body, how, then, could the Third Reich's ovens magically defy the laws of thermodynamics and ignore the limiting factors (fuel consumption, efficiency, BTU requirements for cremation, surface area for the reactions to occur)?
(matthewsenvironmentalsolutions.com
So I guess God and Bigfoot exist, too. I mean, if we are to deliberately downplay the standard of evidence necessary to "well, he saw it, so", then we apply this framework to all assertions.
If you take all the evidence and put it together... Yeah, 99% sure the Holocaust happened. Otherwise it's all a big conspiracy to lie to the whole population, faking all history.
Totally true that this man was a sondercommando, dragging bodies out of the gas chamber for over a year. He drew this photo of what it looked like. He didn't realize that zyklon b would adhere to peoples skin and is lethal when dermanlly contacted
>If you take all the evidence and put it together.
[citation needed]
Reminder: Burden of proof is on you. "But where did the Jews go?"=/=concrete evidence pointing to ONLY mass gassings/cremation, "well here's a euphemistic telegram; we can also dismiss all other queries for proof, just stop at this"=/=mass gassings/cremation, "well, he swears he saw it; also, let's stop right here and not ask any more questions"=/=evidence for mass gassings/cremations within the timeframe/outlining the methodology and showing how it is logically feasible.
>Otherwise it's all a big conspiracy to lie to the whole population, faking all history.
>no evidence automatically equates to some big conspiracy I just accused you of believing
So it's either: Russel's teapot exists, or it exists but everybody is just lying that it doesn't. You know, it could always not exist because it doesn't exist to be proven truthful?
>The actual camp appeared like an untidy slaughterhouse. A pungent smell hung heavily in the air… The further we walked into the site, the stronger the smell of burnt flesh became, and dirty-black ash rained down on us from the heavens, darkening the snow… Innumerable exhausted, wretched figures with shrunken faces and bald heads were standing outside of the barracks. They didn’t know that we were coming. The surprise made many of them faint. A picture that would make everyone wither away who saw it. The misery was horrifying. The ovens [of the crematoria] were still hot and some were still blazing fiercely when we approached… We were standing in a circle, everyone was silent. From the barracks more and more hungry children were emerging, reduced to skeletons and enveloped in rags. Like ants they assembled in large groups, making noise as if they were in a large school yard. With arms extended, they were waiting, begging and screaming for bread. They were whining out of despair and wiping away their tears… Only death reigned here. It smelled of it
A report by Nikolai Politanow, one of the first Red Army soldiers and translator who entered Auschwitz-Birkenau
>Is not a jew
>Actually is a jew
I already gave you all the evidence you need. Can you please tell me what is the problem with it?
- Nuremberg trials
- Photographs
- Testimonies, from both victims and perpetrators
- Documents
- Gas chambers and crematoriums found
What else do you fucking want? I bet Julius Caesar didn't exist for you because "not enough evidence". Same for the people of Canaan, because "there's not enough evidence". Half of history doesn't exist because "not enough evidence" according to you.
All we need to prove he's a jew.
Fuck you kike
Every history book not published by Stormfront. The holocaust wasn't even that long ago. Do you believe in any historical event that you have not personally witnessed?
Nice arguments. I bet you would clearly prove the Holocaust didn't happen in any Historians conference.
>- Nuremberg trials
avalon.law.yale.edu
>- Photographs
Dead bodies=/=death by mass gassings/cremation.
>- Testimonies, from both victims and perpetrators
God exists because I saw it.
>- Documents
Proving what, mass gassings and cremation, as well as their feasibility? Let's make it legal to question it, then.
>- Gas chambers and crematoriums found
We can find a murder weapon, but that does not make it any more murderous.
>What else do you fucking want?
Concrete evidence.
>I bet Julius Caesar didn't exist for you because "not enough evidence".
>Same for the people of Canaan, because "there's not enough evidence". Half of history doesn't exist because "not enough evidence" according to you.
I love this argument. Incapable of producing evidence for your claims and realizing that deliberately weakening the standard for proofs of your claims isn't working, you divert by asserting that by somehow asking for proofs of your claims is equivalent to denying anything that doesn't have necessary evidence for it. Canaan exists because it is a physical place, and we are aware of the bloodline of Caesar, as well as his writings, speeches, and the recordings of his life. But that is not equivalent to asking for proof of your assertions, that millions upon millions were ONLY gassed and cremated. The shootings obviously occurred because there is evidence that is OBJECTIVE for them. It cannot be denied because it OCCURRED.
>everybody I dislike is stormfront
Not an argument, provide evidence or leave.
>Do you believe in any historical event that you have not personally witnessed?
>asking for evidence=denying all history
Not my fault that, when asked for evidence, the best you can do is accuse me of being from stormfront.
sage
It's because you've already heard all the evidence that it's real. You've gone to school, did you fail before 7th grade or do they not go over ww2 in Canada? Have you read a history book before? There is no point in arguing with you. You'll just post the same misinformative stormfag infographs that always get posted.
>It's because you've already heard all the evidence that it's real.
Not really an argument, this is working backwards. "Evidence was real. How do we know this, well it was real, it happened."
>You've gone to school, did you fail before 7th grade or do they not go over ww2 in Canada? Have you read a history book before?
Let's use the same logic against yourself: have you even read a book or failed third grade? Don't you know the Earth is obviously flat? This is the only proofs I need to provide for my claims. Lots of people say the Earth is flat, and the status quo/mainstream is always correct. We have pictures of circles, so the Earth is flat. Anybody who disagrees with us is "insert pejorative here that adds nothing to the discussion" because the foremost experts have already said what they think, they are the only reasonable being whose source matters over the claim's contents."
People do crazy things for food when they're starving.
It's useless to argue with this retard. He doesn't want to admit that he does not believe in the Holocaust because he simple saw some retarded Youtube video/Stormfront post.
en.wikipedia.org
>Evidence is false BECAUSE I SAY IT.
>YEAH, ALL EVIDENCE SAYS EARTH IS ROUND BUT ILL JUST IGNORE IT AND SAY THE EARTH IS TRIANGULAR BECAUSE I WANT TO. NOW PROVE ME THE EARTH IS ROUND... NO! THAT EVIDENCE DOESN'T COUNT!
Not really an argument,
>There is no point in arguing with you.
No shit
Does your school teach you the earth is flat?
This is Sup Forums leaf, not the best place to form an informative opinion or get your news.
>en.wikipedia.org
So admitting that there is an absence of evidence=presence of evidence?
>Evidence is false BECAUSE I SAY IT.
>YEAH, ALL EVIDENCE SAYS EARTH IS ROUND BUT ILL JUST IGNORE IT AND SAY THE EARTH IS TRIANGULAR BECAUSE I WANT TO. NOW PROVE ME THE EARTH IS ROUND... NO! THAT EVIDENCE DOESN'T COUNT!
Convenient to swap places with me. Reminder: Burden of proof is on you. "But where did the Jews go?"=/=concrete evidence pointing to ONLY mass gassings/cremation, "well here's a euphemistic telegram; we can also dismiss all other queries for proof, just stop at this"=/=mass gassings/cremation, "well, he swears he saw it; also, let's stop right here and not ask any more questions"=/=evidence for mass gassings/cremations within the timeframe/outlining the methodology and showing how it is logically feasible.
Evidence must be proven to be truthful and logically feasible. You link to: As I address here: Is impossible to occur (15 minute cremation rates are impossible).
I'm arguing for your proof that the Earth is round (in the analogy, not literally). You have yet to show your Eratosthenes moment and provide legitimate and objective evidence, but you are acting as if you did.
>This is Sup Forums leaf, not the best place to form an informative opinion or get your news.
I see that you are incapable of providing evidence for your claims. It's okay, though. I'll just wait for evidence, then.
You obviously did not read any of the links I showed you, so I'll try to make it as short as possible:
No body can burn in 15 minutes, but nazis burned A LOT of bodies at the same time. In 6 hours they could easily burn no less than 2000 people (if not more). Do you understand me now?
>he believes in the theory of the holocaust
This is called a "book". I've never actually read this particular one so who knows, maybe you're right and it doesn't mentions any death in ww2. I've seen the documentaries on this one though. If you don't like that one. Just pick one.
>HOW COULD X DO Y?
>HOW IF IT DEFIES ALL LOGIC?
>HOW COULD THIS THING HAPPEN?
Maybe because the holocaust - and all the myths about it -
never happened, you colossal kike.
>Muhh those books are not evidence because I said so...
-Average Holocaust denier
Here's your debunking debunked
>No body can burn in 15 minutes, but nazis burned A LOT of bodies at the same time. In 6 hours they could easily burn no less than 2000 people (if not more). Do you understand me now?
According to the source: According to calculations by the German authorities, 1,440 corpses could be burned in this crematorium every 24 hours.
That's 60 bodies per hour. Spread among 6 ovens, that's 10 bodies per oven per hour.
I ask again: proofs?
>No body can burn in 15 minutes
>but nazis burned A LOT of bodies at the same time.
>In 6 hours they could easily burn no less than 2000 people (if not more)
>what is a rate
Specifically which passage proves that millions upon millions were gassed and cremated again? Which chapter, please.
You are very stupid. They didn't put 1 people at the time at the ovens, but fill them with as many people as they could. They also burned them in open pits.
???
Are you looking for a bed time story or are you just trolling?
I was a translator at the front. Our forces had taken half of Poland. At New Years we reached Krakow. I interrogated German and Italian officers there, because I knew Italian and Polish besides Russian. I’ve learnt that from my mother and during school. We then got the order to push beyond the town and into the concentration camp Auschwitz. When our tanks reached the front gates of the KZ [KZ = Konzentrationslager; German for concentration camp] early on the 27th of january 1945, the guards had already caught wind and had fled. Only some remained, others had died by their own hands.
Nobody resisted. The front gate of the camp was locked. Our tank broke through. One truck after the other, full of soldiers, drove onto the camp site. Our soliders disembarked, disarmed the remaining guards of the camp and arrested them.
So we drove up to the extermination camp Birkenau.
Knowing the Red Army was closing in, the SS gave the boilermen (?) [people operating the ovens] the order, to throw the prisoners, who were already emaciated to the point of looking like skeleton, into the crematorium alive. They wanted to get rid of the sick and weakened to cover up their tracks as fast as possible.
The boilermen looked surprised to see us officers and soldiers. They were strong people, mostly Kapos [prisoners forced to work in the camps]. They greeted us with shy smiles on their faces, a mix of happiness and fear. Like on command, they threw away their poker. With us, they talked freely. Angry words about Hitler were spoken. I still remember an old boilermen stammer “Thank you”. “Thank you, friend. May I call you [the Russians] friends?”. ....
>recount of seeing a Sonderkommando
One of them, a Ukrainian, I asked: “Why did you do that?” and pointed towards the ovens. Without blinking he replied: “They didn’t ask if I wanted to. No, I didn’t want to. But better be the guy working the oven, then be the one burning. That’s why I did it.” I was speechless, could just shake my head. “Why aren’t the other ovens burning? There’s no smoke coming up the chimney”, I asked the guy. “Deconstructed”, he said.
Caught in our own thoughts, everyone just stood around. Nobody cared about the burning ovens. “Stop this. Out! All of you!”, the commanding officer Sergejew shouted. Outside, he was shaking and said with a stuttering voice: “How can this be in the midst of the 20th century! I can’t comprehend this. If there’d be a god, maybe he could explain how this all came to be.”
We visited the barracks and couldn’t believe our own eyes. Naked and groaning people, hardly looking like humans, were laying on straw bags. I touched one of the people laying there. He didn’t move. He wasn’t alive anymore.
I seriously believe that guy is trolling. He can't seriously be that stupid.
How long does it take to cremate one body in an oven with finite space and limited efficiency/energy output. Now put in one more body, and another.
>Are you looking for a bed time story or are you just trolling?
No, looking for evidence.
>I was a translator at the front. Our forces had taken half of Poland. At New Years we reached Krakow. I interrogated German and Italian officers there, because I knew Italian and Polish besides Russian. I’ve learnt that from my mother and during school.
Replace everything with God and you just proved that God exists because of eye-witness testimony. Appealing to the status quo just because they are populous doesn't make claims "more true".
They didn't. They Lied. Probably some form of survivor's guilt or something. No doubt it was a traumatic experience for these rats but nobody was gassed and they sure didn't drag 1000 bodies a day 200 meters with a cane.
