Why did the US overthrow dictators that the US itself put up (Iraq, Libya...)? Was it dissatisfied with the way their policies turned out, or what?
Why did the US overthrow dictators that the US itself put up (Iraq, Libya...)...
Sebastian Foster
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Anthony Russell
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Owen Sanchez
Saddam was needed to hold Iraq's tribes together and harness them as a bulwark against the Iranian Revolution's stated intention of spreading over the Middle East. The world economy would have been destroyed if the oil fields of Saudi Arabia and Kuwait were over run, not to mention Israel was threatened - and they are the number one international lobbying force in the USA by a scary margin.
So Saddam was funded and armed. The USA even gave him chemical weapons - which he used against the Iranians. The Iranians used children as first-wave attackers to clear minefields. It was a brutal war with an insane death toll. Compared to the populations of the nations, it was comparable to the Eastern Front of WWII in intensity.
Afterwards, Saddam thought to reclaim oil fields in Kuwait to which there were ancient claims. Most current lines in the sand were drawn haphazardly by the British and French, and do not observe tribal lines. Tribal loyalties supersede national loyalties in the Middle East. They view themselves first in terms of their tribe, and then their secular group (like Sunni for example), and lastly, as a nation. You see, Saddam made "Iraq" fight Iran because dictators can do that. If Iraq had been a democracy, that would never have happened.
Connor Kelly
Fuck you sand nigger lovers
Bentley Lee
HE GASSED HIS OWN PEOPLE, BRO
HE GASSED THEM
it's all so tiring
Asher Ross
>NATO implements a pro-NATO Govt
>pro-NATO Govt turns out not to be so pro-NATO
>Gets overthrown by NATO
Joseph Nelson
It was a huge mistake
The Middle East needs and morally deserves to be ruled by dictators. It's the only thing that's ever worked for the region.
It is our job to negotiate with these dictators and bomb the shit out of them if they get too uppity.
Democracy and the Middle East are incompatible
Oliver Rivera
It was a huge mistake
The Middle East needs and morally deserves to be ruled by dictators. It's the only thing that's ever worked for the region.
It is our job to negotiate with these dictators and bomb the shit out of them if they get too uppity.
Democracy and the Middle East are incompatible
Robert Green
Saddam had every reason to think that we would not oppose his invasion of Kuwait because he pledged to sell oil to the USA at a set, below market rate. He also didn't think we'd view Kuwait's national sovereignty as being all that important. After all, Kuwait is not Europe. There was every reason to think we'd treat it like an irrelevant African shit fest. Besides, Kuwait was not helpful or friendly to the USA in a more general sense, and Saddam had proved himself a team player.
Even still. Saddam was left in power after the end of the war, because he was the only bulwark against Iran. Iran had been weakened, but it was still a powerful regional player that would make trouble through proxies. We are seeing that now in Yemen and Syria primarily.
Saddam blew it by not playing ball with us after the war. He gassed kurds with the gas we gave him, which made us look like shit. Then his last mistake was threatening to price oil in Euros to cut out our Petro-dollar control of oil prices. Iraq was allowed to go into tail spin. It will take 50 years before Iraq is a regional power again. Same with Egypt (as a sidenote).
Now none of that seems to matter much because fracking has changed the face of global energy. Such is life on this crazy planet.
Noah Howard
Hear! Hear!
Cameron Hill
It's the typical cycle of US imperialism in the post-WWII area.
CIA operations follow the same recurring script. First, American business interests abroad are threatened by a popular or democratically elected leader. The people support their leader because he intends to conduct land reform, strengthen unions, redistribute wealth, nationalize foreign-owned industry, and regulate business to protect workers, consumers and the environment. So, on behalf of American business, and often with their help, the CIA mobilizes the opposition. First it identifies right-wing groups within the country (usually the military), and offers them a deal: "We'll put you in power if you maintain a favorable business climate for us." The Agency then hires, trains and works with them to overthrow the existing government (usually a democracy). It uses every trick in the book: propaganda, stuffed ballot boxes, purchased elections, extortion, blackmail, sexual intrigue, false stories about opponents in the local media, infiltration and disruption of opposing political parties, kidnapping, beating, torture, intimidation, economic sabotage, death squads and even assassination. These efforts culminate in a military coup, which installs a right-wing dictator. The CIA trains the dictator’s security apparatus to crack down on the traditional enemies of big business, using interrogation, torture and murder. The victims are said to be "communists," but almost always they are just peasants, liberals, moderates, labor union leaders, political opponents and advocates of free speech and democracy. Widespread human rights abuses follow.
(continued)
Lincoln Richardson
>Most current lines in the sand were drawn haphazardly by the British and French, and do not observe tribal lines.
Those lines genuinely make no sense at first glance, and I suspect were intentionally made that way to keep the nations fractured and weak.
Daniel White
kys
Justin Walker
So in conclusion, the USA achieved it's goal of having Saddam in power during the 80's. We got what we wanted. We stopped him in the 90's when he went bad boy, and still kept him in a position that served us. Then we removed him when the situation favored doing that.
We change who we support, because the world is always changing. There are free market forces that are unpredictable, like fracking dropping the price of oil, that completely change the course of nations. The best plan is adaptability.
The USA has put anti-communist leaders in place in Central and South America... and now we don't give a fuck about that (see Venezuela). Why? Because the world changed. Venezuela fucking its own asshole doesn't affect us anymore. That Hugo fatboy wasn't worth a bullet.
All geopolitics is about national self-interest, and it is a wonderful field of study that you should look into. You will have to read books, true. But it is worth it. It is valuable to be able to see things from other country's perspectives. With a little effort you'll quickly see that most political positions are dictated by forces that have nothing to do with the personalities of the leaders, and more to do with geography.
Good luck and good night.
Thomas Turner
>Democracy and the Middle East are incompatible
It COULD work, but basically the only way it would is if each tribal group just fucked off to its own pocket nation and stayed separate from each other.
Zachary Adams
The CIA justifies these actions as part of its war against "communism". But most coups do not involve a real communist threat. "Communism" is anything that goes against business interests, regardless of what the actual political and social structures are. Unlucky nations are targeted for a wide variety of reasons: not only threats to American business interests abroad, but also liberal or even moderate social reforms, political instability, the unwillingness of a leader to carry out Washington’s dictates, and declarations of neutrality in the Cold War. Indeed, nothing has infuriated CIA Directors quite like a nation’s desire to stay out of the Cold War.
The ironic thing about all this intervention is that it frequently fails to achieve American objectives. Often the newly installed dictator grows comfortable with the security apparatus the CIA has built for him. He becomes an expert at running a police state. And because the dictator knows he cannot be overthrown, he becomes independent and defiant of Washington's will. The CIA then finds it cannot overthrow him, because the police and military are under the dictator's control, afraid to cooperate with American spies for fear of torture and execution. The only two options for the U.S at this point are impotence or war. Examples of this "boomerang effect" include the Shah of Iran, General Noriega and Saddam Hussein. The boomerang effect also explains why the CIA has proven highly successful at overthrowing democracies, but a wretched failure at overthrowing dictatorships.
Daniel Reyes
c.f Ukraine
Bentley Powell
This pattern played out in many countries:
Greece: 1947 - President Truman requests military aid to Greece to support right-wing forces fighting communist rebels. For the rest of the Cold War, Washington and the CIA will back notorious Greek leaders with deplorable human rights records.
Italy: 1948 - The CIA corrupts democratic elections in Italy, where Italian communists threaten to win the elections. The CIA buys votes, broadcasts propaganda, threatens and beats up opposition leaders, and infiltrates and disrupts their organizations. It works -- the communists are defeated.
Iran: 1953 - CIA overthrows the democratically elected Mohammed Mossadegh in a military coup, after he threatened to nationalize British oil. The CIA replaces him with a dictator, the Shah of Iran, whose secret police, SAVAK, is as brutal as the Gestapo.
Guatemala: 1954 - CIA overthrows the democratically elected Jacob Arbenz in a military coup. Arbenz has threatened to nationalize the Rockefeller-owned United Fruit Company, in which CIA Director Allen Dulles also owns stock. Arbenz is replaced with a series of right-wing dictators whose bloodthirsty policies will kill over 100,000 Guatemalans in the next 40 years.
North Vietnam: 1954 - CIA officer Edward Lansdale spends four years trying to overthrow the communist government of North Vietnam, using all the usual dirty tricks. The CIA also attempts to legitimize a tyrannical puppet regime in South Vietnam, headed by Ngo Dinh Diem. These efforts fail to win the hearts and minds of the South Vietnamese because the Diem government is opposed to true democracy, land reform and poverty reduction measures. The CIA’s continuing failure results in escalating American intervention, culminating in the Vietnam War.
Dominic Edwards
I wouldn't discount that idea, it is a sound strategy. But based on what I know about the history of the Middle East in the 1800 and early 1900's... the tribal lines were shifting and blurred that you couldn't have done much intentional good or bad with meaningful certainty. The chaos left by the Ottoman Empire's collapse was just as bad as anything the British or French could have done. And in truth, I honestly believe that the intention was to help restore a sense of order by creating nation states. The colonial mindset was one of paternal benevolence. The powers of Europe wanted to gain, of course, in a capitalist sense of the word, but they also wanted to build. There was a sense that by bring law and order to the heathens, and by placing them within a Nation State, they could mature into something resembling a society. The mindset said that tribalism was the result of chaos, and that order would bring about hegemony. And practically, it was impossible to deal economically with hundreds of tribes, so that order was needed in the 20th century.
Liam Parker
We help out Dictators so long as their interests align with our own more often than not. They are reliable and brutally efficient at advancing our interests when our interests mirror theirs. When the interests of the (((US))) and a foreign dictator converge, they can become rather stubborn thorns in our sides.
Tl;dr we support them if they're useful, until they're no longer useful.
Matthew Gutierrez
Arabs/muslims/browns are horrible.
Both sides suck which means we have to arms both side to make sure neither has full power.
We should let nature takes it course and let them kill each other.
Tyler Peterson
Hungary: 1956 - Radio Free Europe (a CIA propaganda outlet that broadcasted things so blatantly false it was considered illegal to publish transcripts of them in the US) incites Hungary to revolt by broadcasting Khruschev’s Secret Speech, in which he denounced Stalin. It also hints that American aid will help the Hungarians fight. This aid fails to materialize as Hungarians launch a doomed armed revolt, which only invites a major Soviet invasion. The conflict kills 7,000 Soviets and 30,000 Hungarians.
Laos: 1957-73 The CIA carries out approximately one coup per year trying to nullify Laos’ democratic elections. The problem is the Pathet Lao, a leftist group with enough popular support to be a member of any coalition government. In the late 50s, the CIA even creates an "Armee Clandestine" of Asian mercenaries to attack the Pathet Lao. After the CIA’s army suffers numerous defeats, the U.S. starts bombing, dropping more bombs on Laos than all the U.S. bombs dropped in World War II. A quarter of all Laotians will eventually become refugees, many living in caves.
Haiti: 1959 - The U.S. military helps "Papa Doc" Duvalier become dictator of Haiti. He creates his own private police force, the "Tonton Macoutes," who terrorize the population with machetes. They will kill over 100,000 during the Duvalier family reign. The U.S. does not protest their dismal human rights record.
Carson Jackson
>I'm part Cherokee
Big fucking deal with that image, the Cherokee integrated with white society instead of trying to maintain their culture. Other tribes even have a joke about it
>what do you call 40 Cherokees in a room
>a full-blooded
Adrian Allen
1961 was a real motherfucker, we did all this:
The Bay of Pigs — The CIA sends 1,500 Cuban exiles to invade Castro’s Cuba. But "Operation Mongoose" fails, due to poor planning, security and backing. The planners had imagined that the invasion will spark a popular uprising against Castro -– which never happens. A promised American air strike also never occurs. This is the CIA’s first public setback, causing President Kennedy to fire CIA Director Allen Dulles.
Dominican Republic — The CIA assassinates Rafael Trujillo, a murderous dictator Washington has supported since 1930. Trujillo’s business interests have grown so large (about 60 percent of the economy) that they have begun competing with American business interests.
Ecuador — The CIA-backed military forces the democratically elected President Jose Velasco to resign. Vice President Carlos Arosemana replaces him; the CIA fills the now vacant vice presidency with its own man.
Congo (Zaire) — The CIA assassinates the democratically elected Patrice Lumumba. However, public support for Lumumba’s politics runs so high that the CIA cannot clearly install his opponents in power. Four years of political turmoil follow.
1963:
Dominican Republic — The CIA overthrows the democratically elected Juan Bosch in a military coup. The CIA installs a repressive, right-wing junta.
Ecuador — A CIA-backed military coup overthrows President Arosemana, whose independent (not socialist) policies have become unacceptable to Washington. A military junta assumes command, cancels the 1964 elections, and begins abusing human rights.
Nathaniel Rivera
Gadaffi wasn't put up by the US, as far as I know.
Aiden Allen
Keep in mind that although execution was flawed, the outcome was better than Communism. There is nothing wrong with a country acting in its own best interest, nor should we think that the KGB of the Soviets was not trying to put their own people in these spots. Ngo Dinh Diem was a horrible person (and keep in mind that the CIA killed him eventually)... but what wast he alternative? Blame the fucking South Vietnamese for having him as their best man for the job! And if Vietnam had gone red, what of Cambodia and Laos? What of The Philippines? It is easy for the young to forget that the stated goal of Communism was every last square inch of the world under a Red banner.
Not excuses for the CIA and their fuck ups, but thank God we won user. You and I would not be having this conversation otherwise.
Carson Evans
Brazil: 1964 - A CIA-backed military coup overthrows the democratically elected government of Joao Goulart. The junta that replaces it will, in the next two decades, become one of the most bloodthirsty in history. General Castelo Branco will create Latin America’s first death squads, or bands of secret police who hunt down "communists" for torture, interrogation and murder. Often these "communists" are no more than Branco’s political opponents. Later it is revealed that the CIA trains the death squads.
1965, another big year for the CIA:
Indonesia — The CIA overthrows the democratically elected Sukarno with a military coup. The CIA has been trying to eliminate Sukarno since 1957, using everything from attempted assassination to sexual intrigue, for nothing more than his declaring neutrality in the Cold War. His successor, General Suharto, will massacre between 500,000 to 1 million civilians accused of being "communist." The CIA supplies the names of countless suspects.
Dominican Republic — A popular rebellion breaks out, promising to reinstall Juan Bosch as the country’s elected leader. The revolution is crushed when U.S. Marines land to uphold the military regime by force. The CIA directs everything behind the scenes.
Greece — With the CIA’s backing, the king removes George Papandreous as prime minister. Papandreous has failed to vigorously support U.S. interests in Greece.
Congo (Zaire) — A CIA-backed military coup installs Mobutu Sese Seko as dictator. The hated and repressive Mobutu exploits his desperately poor country for billions.
Greece: 1967 - A CIA-backed military coup overthrows the government two days before the elections. The favorite to win was George Papandreous, the liberal candidate. During the next six years, the "reign of the colonels" — backed by the CIA — will usher in the widespread use of torture and murder against political opponents.
Landon Scott
The problem with Iraq, I think, is given another few decades they could have become a world power. They're Arabs, relatively urbanized, and a shitton of oil. Egypt doesnt have oil, so it didnt get shit all over the way Iraq did.
It's very sad in my eyes. Iraq was probably the best hope for a secular Middle East.
Austin Rogers
True. I mean, it's hard to economically leech off a region if they're too busy killing each other to work the oil fields for you.
Henry Murphy
because its all a big game to keep the masses distracted and never know truths.
Charles Reed
>It is easy for the young to forget that the stated goal of Communism was every last square inch of the world under a Red banner.
That was what American propaganda said. In reality the Soviet Union had no means of acting outside its own limited sphere of influence.
The CIA used "communism" as an excuse to justify intervening in any democratically elected government that wanted to institute land reforms, nationalize industries or kick out US businesses.
Thomas Perez
Uruguay: 1969 - The notorious CIA torturer Dan Mitrione arrives in Uruguay, a country torn with political strife. Whereas right-wing forces previously used torture only as a last resort, Mitrione convinces them to use it as a routine, widespread practice. The torture techniques he teaches to the death squads rival the Nazis’. He eventually becomes so feared that revolutionaries will kidnap and murder him a year later.
Cambodia: 1970 - The CIA overthrows Prince Sahounek, who is highly popular among Cambodians for keeping them out of the Vietnam War. He is replaced by CIA puppet Lon Nol, who immediately throws Cambodian troops into battle. This unpopular move strengthens once minor opposition parties like the Khmer Rouge, which achieves power in 1975 and massacres millions of its own people.
Bolivia: 1971 - After half a decade of CIA-inspired political turmoil, a CIA-backed military coup overthrows the leftist President Juan Torres. In the next two years, dictator Hugo Banzer will have over 2,000 political opponents arrested without trial, then tortured, raped and executed.
Chile: 1973 - The CIA overthrows and assassinates Salvador Allende, Latin America’s first democratically elected socialist leader. The problems begin when Allende nationalizes American-owned firms in Chile. The CIA replaces Allende with General Augusto Pinochet, who will torture and murder thousands of his own countrymen in a crackdown on labor leaders and the political left.
Nolan Peterson
Angola: 1975 - Eager to demonstrate American military resolve after defeat in Vietnam, Kissinger launches a CIA-backed war in Angola. Contrary to Kissinger’s assertions, Angola is a country of little strategic importance and not seriously threatened by communism. The CIA backs the brutal leader of UNITAS, Jonas Savimbi. This polarizes Angolan politics and drives his opponents into the arms of Cuba and the Soviet Union for survival. Congress will cut off funds in 1976, but the CIA runs the war off the books until 1984, when funding is legalized again. This entirely pointless war kills over 300,000 Angolans.
1979:
Iran — The CIA fails to predict the fall of the Shah of Iran, a longtime CIA puppet, and the rise of Muslim fundamentalists who are furious at the CIA’s backing of SAVAK, the Shah’s bloodthirsty secret police. In revenge, the Muslims take 52 Americans hostage in the U.S. embassy in Tehran.
Afghanistan — The Soviets invade Afghanistan. The CIA immediately begins supplying arms to any faction willing to fight the occupying Soviets. Such indiscriminate arming means that when the Soviets leave Afghanistan, civil war will erupt. Also, fanatical Muslim extremists now possess state-of-the-art weaponry. One of these is Sheik Abdel Rahman, who will become involved in the World Trade Center bombing in New York.
El Salvador — An idealistic group of young military officers, repulsed by the massacre of the poor, overthrows the right-wing government. However, the U.S. compels the inexperienced officers to include many of the old guard in key positions in their new government. Soon, things are back to "normal" — the military government is repressing and killing poor civilian protesters. Many of the young military and civilian reformers, finding themselves powerless, resign in disgust.
Luis Morgan
Please keep making informative posts on the CIA. Also, any links to good websites or books? This is good stuff. Im copying this info down.
Luke Campbell
El Salvador: 1980 - The Archbishop of San Salvador, Oscar Romero, pleads with President Carter "Christian to Christian" to stop aiding the military government slaughtering his people. Carter refuses. Shortly afterwards, right-wing leader Roberto D’Aubuisson has Romero shot through the heart while saying Mass. The country soon dissolves into civil war, with the peasants in the hills fighting against the military government. The CIA and U.S. Armed Forces supply the government with overwhelming military and intelligence superiority. CIA-trained death squads roam the countryside, committing atrocities like that of El Mazote in 1982, where they massacre between 700 and 1000 men, women and children. By 1992, some 63,000 Salvadorans will be killed.
Iran/Contra Begins: 1981 - The CIA begins selling arms to Iran at high prices, using the profits to arm the Contras fighting the Sandinista government in Nicaragua. President Reagan vows that the Sandinistas will be "pressured" until "they say ‘uncle.’" The CIA’s Freedom Fighter’s Manual disbursed to the Contras includes instruction on economic sabotage, propaganda, extortion, bribery, blackmail, interrogation, torture, murder and political assassination.
Honduras: 1983 - The CIA gives Honduran military officers the Human Resource Exploitation Training Manual – 1983, which teaches how to torture people. Honduras’ notorious "Battalion 316" then uses these techniques, with the CIA’s full knowledge, on thousands of leftist dissidents. At least 184 are murdered.
Eugene Hasenfus: 1986 - Nicaragua shoots down a C-123 transport plane carrying military supplies to the Contras. The lone survivor, Eugene Hasenfus, turns out to be a CIA employee, as are the two dead pilots. The airplane belongs to Southern Air Transport, a CIA front. The incident makes a mockery of President Reagan’s claims that the CIA is not illegally arming the Contras.
Isaac Watson
>Was it dissatisfied with the way their policies turned out
yes.
Oliver Gutierrez
A good book to start with is Killing Hope: U.S. Military and CIA Interventions since World War II. What I'm posting right now is basically a summary of that book. www.globalresearch.ca/ is good, so is nsarchive.gwu.edu
Wyatt Price
Panama: 1989 - The U.S. invades Panama to overthrow a dictator of its own making, General Manuel Noriega. Noriega has been on the CIA’s payroll since 1966, and has been transporting drugs with the CIA’s knowledge since 1972. By the late 80s, Noriega’s growing independence and intransigence have angered Washington… so out he goes.
Haiti: 1990 - Competing against 10 comparatively wealthy candidates, leftist priest Jean-Bertrand Aristide captures 68 percent of the vote. After only eight months in power, however, the CIA-backed military deposes him. More military dictators brutalize the country, as thousands of Haitian refugees escape the turmoil in barely seaworthy boats. As popular opinion calls for Aristide’s return, the CIA begins a disinformation campaign painting the courageous priest as mentally unstable.
The Gulf War: 1991 - The U.S. liberates Kuwait from Iraq. But Iraq’s dictator, Saddam Hussein, is another creature of the CIA. With U.S. encouragement, Hussein invaded Iran in 1980. During this costly eight-year war, the CIA built up Hussein’s forces with sophisticated arms, intelligence, training and financial backing. This cemented Hussein’s power at home, allowing him to crush the many internal rebellions that erupted from time to time, sometimes with poison gas. It also gave him all the military might he needed to conduct further adventurism — in Kuwait, for example.
Haiti: 1993 - The chaos in Haiti grows so bad that President Clinton has no choice but to remove the Haitian military dictator, Raoul Cedras, on threat of U.S. invasion. The U.S. occupiers do not arrest Haiti’s military leaders for crimes against humanity, but instead ensure their safety and rich retirements. Aristide is returned to power only after being forced to accept an agenda favorable to the country’s ruling class.
Caleb Morgan
The Fall of the Soviet Union — The CIA fails to predict this most important event of the Cold War. This suggests that it has been so busy undermining governments that it hasn’t been doing its primary job: gathering and analyzing information. The fall of the Soviet Union also robs the CIA of its reason for existence: fighting communism. This leads some to accuse the CIA of intentionally failing to predict the downfall of the Soviet Union. Curiously, the intelligence community’s budget is not significantly reduced after the demise of communism.
Economic Espionage — In the years following the end of the Cold War, the CIA is increasingly used for economic espionage. This involves stealing the technological secrets of competing foreign companies and giving them to American ones. Given the CIA’s clear preference for dirty tricks over mere information gathering, the possibility of serious criminal behavior is very great indeed.
Jonathan Jackson
Ask David Icke. He explains why in some of his videos on youtube
Caleb Mitchell
Here's a good cache of the CIA's own documents:
cia.gov
Here's a few on cover ops.
Ethan Hall
Oh and lets not forget the US/CIA is responsible for radical Islam controlling the middle east. The US decided the secular Arab nationalists were a greater threat to US business interests than the radical Islamists, so we supported radical Islam instead.