I'm an agnostic. Is this okay? I just didn't grow up with any religion in my home

I'm an agnostic. Is this okay? I just didn't grow up with any religion in my home.

Is there any actual compelling argument to believe in a god?

Other urls found in this thread:

cse.dmu.ac.uk/~mward/gkc/books/ortho14.txt
web.mnstate.edu/gracyk/courses/web publishing/aquinasFiveWays_ArgumentAnalysis.htm
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irreligion_in_Sweden
discord.gg/3mAQa
faithandheritage.com/2011/01/a-biblical-defense-of-ethno-nationalism/
youtube.com/watch?v=U5hOza8GTqk
twitter.com/AnonBabble

Either you except that God is infinite and created everything, or that the universe is infinite and magically came into existence without any divine intervention or purpose. I find the second less plausible.

>except

This should tell you the level of intellect you're dealing with here.

Cosmological argument.

Look at what happens in societies that abandon God, particularly yours. They turn into tranny-sodomite-HIV-casual sex hellholes.

Sup Forums doesn't want to accept it, but the rise in secularism is directly correlated to our ever expanding moral decay.

...

>muh false dichotomy
christards, are you even trying?

I'm not even saying that I disagree with your "argument." I'm just saying that you must be a illiterate boob, and that typing "except" when you mean "accept" is NOT a typo.

or your argument just sucked

If you are really interested in seeing the merits of believing in God, then I'd advise you read Orthodoxy by G. K. Chesterton. Here is an e-text of it. cse.dmu.ac.uk/~mward/gkc/books/ortho14.txt
When I was interested in becoming religious, it was this book that convinced me.

Why is the universe coming into being "magical"? We just don't know what came before, or what will come after - and probably never will. But you can believe the universe has a starting point, without labeling it "magic".

In other words, you believe the first, and used loaded language for the second choice, to pre-mock anyone who chooses it.

You're a wanna be intellectual fraud.

There's nothing false about it. Either God is infinite and created the universe, or the universe is infinite and came about from no reason or purpose whatsoever.

You then need to believe that the conditions existed such that the universe could come into existence and the argument does not terminate.

Nothing you said there was true? I also find it hard to believe that these things are caused by lack of faith. These things are caused by humans being retards. If you want to live in a religious state then move to the middle East. I prefer our society.

Explain my friend.

Why is the second option deemed "magic", yet the idea of an infinite being with vast incomprehensible power isn't? Both can be considered "magic". Precisely why I'm an agnostic, not an atheist.

Religious posters are just a vocal minority / larpers. Most of Sup Forums and Sup Forums as a whole is atheist.

you realize repeating your assertion is not evidence for said assertion right?
Let's say for sake of argument everything you claimed was true. Good consequences of a belief still have nothing to do with its truth value.

>But you can believe the universe has a starting point
If it had a starting point it was created by something. You can't just have something come out of nothing. The laws of physics show that mass and energy cannot be created or destroyed. Either the universe and everything in it always existed, or Deity existed and created it.
When you pretend every bit of matter and energy went from a state of not existing to a state of existing, and that defies all logic and understanding, there's no better word to describe that spontaneous creation. That's what a magic trick is right? A illusion created by lack of information.

What a useful and insightful contribution to the discussion m'sir! Have a reddit gold for your intellectualism.

So, you can't explain the creation of anything in any logical sense, and then have the audacity to call someone an "intellectual fraud" because they use God as a catch-all compared to MUH BIG BANG AND SHEEIT?

Talk about silliness. Whatever the case may be, something does not sprout from nothing, whatever made us what we are is beyond our comprehension, and fits the bill of a divine creator far more than anything that science has been capable of explaining. Failure to admit this is simply fear of your potential creator because you've lead a shit life and fear reprisal for your actions, but ignorance doesn't buy your salvation, so perhaps it's time to think differently or you may regret "seeing what comes after" once there's no turning back.

I'm trying to rephrase in a way you understand. Because either a God always existed, or all matter and energy in this universe always existed. My point is, either way you have to accept some form of an infinite existence that somehow created everything you can conceive in your mind.

I think you need to work on your reading comprehension, friend. Nowhere did I imply the universe has a starting point. Look at my posts.

Also your argument doesn't hold up, regardless.

>Most of Sup Forums and Sup Forums as a whole is atheist

That's some terrible bait.

Most of Sup Forums is agnostic from what I've always seen, it's the faggy atheists who are the most vocal because they simply can't handle the thought of not being their own gods.

The funniest thing is how people so desperate to cling to science can't handle the lack of science to validate their opinion that there is no divine creator. Best of luck with that mindset, it's great for pseudo-intellectual hedonism but not much else.

Deism is the ultimate redpill.

web.mnstate.edu/gracyk/courses/web publishing/aquinasFiveWays_ArgumentAnalysis.htm

" For we must remember that the materialist philosophy
(whether true or not) is certainly much more limiting than any religion.
In one sense, of course, all intelligent ideas are narrow.
They cannot be broader than themselves. A Christian is only
restricted in the same sense that an atheist is restricted.
He cannot think Christianity false and continue to be a Christian;
and the atheist cannot think atheism false and continue to be an atheist.
But as it happens, there is a very special sense in which
materialism has more restrictions than spiritualism.
Mr. McCabe thinks me a slave because I am not allowed to believe
in determinism. I think Mr. McCabe a slave because he is not
allowed to believe in fairies. But if we examine the two vetoes
we shall see that his is really much more of a pure veto than mine.
The Christian is quite free to believe that there is
a considerable amount of settled order and inevitable development
in the universe. But the materialist is not allowed to admit
into his spotless machine the slightest speck of spiritualism
or miracle. Poor Mr. McCabe is not allowed to retain even the
tiniest imp, though it might be hiding in a pimpernel.
The Christian admits that the universe is manifold and even
miscellaneous, just as a sane man knows that he is complex.
The sane man knows that he has a touch of the beast, a touch of
the devil, a touch of the saint, a touch of the citizen. Nay,
the really sane man knows that he has a touch of the madman.
But the materialist's world is quite simple and solid, just as
the madman is quite sure he is sane. The materialist is sure
that history has been simply and solely a chain of causation,
just as the interesting person before mentioned is quite sure
that he is simply and solely a chicken. Materialists and madmen
never have doubts."

it literally is true though. Sweden is almost entirely atheist/agnostic and it is poz central.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irreligion_in_Sweden

>If you want to live in a religious state then move to the middle East

implying all religions are equal. No, the middle east is what happens when you have a desert warlord cult founded on pursuit of worldly vices.

>nothing
>can be known

Agnostic means "without knowledge". Saying nothing can be known is retarded. If Thor and Loki fought in Time Square, then they would definitely be known. 'Nothing can be known' was added to the definition by con artist theologists trying to muddy the waters.

What happened to christcucks?

>first post isnt "I dont know"

You fucked this thread up famalams.

Perhaps you need to, because I never indicated what your positions on the world are. How can I possibly know what you believe?

It's the collective understanding of the universe that seems to indicate there was a point in space/time that we can pinpoint as the creation of this universe.

Agnostic is the best choice. Because if you think about it, at the present moment, we cannot know whether there is a God or not.

>Is there any actual compelling argument to believe in a god?

yeah.
the world around us is pretty crazy and you cant just put a line between what you can accept as possible and what not. youre being biased by default if you do.

AKA "i have no convictions on anything, haha who cares about anything bro, come smoke some weed with me man"

Yeah, it doesn't seem like a very good definition for agnosticism but "nothing can be known" is a big topic in philosophy which goes on about how "truth" is actually subjective or something like that. So that part of the definition might be channeling philosophy for some reason.

You sound like one of those faggots that tell moderates to "pick a side already".

>being this self-absorbed
Me thinking your point is shit does not mean I don't understand it. Maybe the universe didn't always exist, but came into being on its own. or maybe there is something outside the universe that created it i.e. a multiverse or any other random thing you haven't thought of. There is nothing that necessitates one of the two options you mentioned, that is why it's a false dichotomy. Both lawrence krauss and stephen hawkings have presented self-contained models for how the could have been created. Your ignorance and lack of imagination does not mean I have to accept your dichotomy.
>whatever made us what we are is beyond our comprehension
you faggots always do this. you add unsupported necessities to everything because you have no real argument. There's nothing to say it must be beyond our comprehension, there's nothing to say that it must be divine, and there is certainly absolutely nothing that says if that being did exists it would give a shit about you or reprising you for your actions.

>possible

What a useless word. It's "possible" that the Tooth Fairy is real. Are you agnostic about the Tooth Fairy?

It's not "who cares", that's just a lazy way of painting reasonable and rational thought in a negative light. It's anti-intellectual.

"The ordinary man has always
been sane because the ordinary man has always been a mystic.
He has permitted the twilight. He has always had one foot in
earth and the other in fairyland. He has always left himself
free to doubt his gods; but (unlike the agnostic of to-day) free
also to believe in them. He has always cared more for truth
than for consistency. If he saw two truths that seemed to
contradict each other, he would take the two truths and the
contradiction along with them. His spiritual sight is stereoscopic,
like his physical sight: he sees two different pictures at once
and yet sees all the better for that. Thus he has always
believed that there was such a thing as fate, but such a thing
as free will also. Thus he believed that children were indeed
the kingdom of heaven, but nevertheless ought to be obedient to
the kingdom of earth. He admired youth because it was young
and age because it was not. It is exactly this balance of
apparent contradictions that has been the whole buoyancy of the
healthy man. The whole secret of mysticism is this: that man
can understand everything by the help of what he does not
understand. The morbid logician seeks to make everything lucid,
and succeeds in making everything mysterious. The mystic
allows one thing to be mysterious, and everything else becomes lucid. "

Math... and DMT

fake news niggers

discord.gg/3mAQa

join kekistan, fight shills

le atheist cry as much as a christian and breed degeneracy.

why do you le atheist niggers think we'd want to be associated with you?

>part of the definition might be channeling philosophy for some reason

It's channeling bullshit. "Nothing can be known" would be anti-gnostic. A word that doesn't exist because the definition is retarded.

Typical bullshit artist philosopher: Nothing can be known. Now sign up for my philosophy class and listen to me lecture for hours and hours even though I don't know anything.

Well lots of people are crazy idiots that will always be like that, with or without god. Most atheists and agnostic people I've seen are normal and dindu nuffin.

>So, you can't explain the creation of anything in any logical sense
You can't either. It's "the big bang was" or "God was". There's no logical way to argue this.

that's anecdotal though.

on a societal wide scale the pattern is clear.

it's no surprise that as America becomes less Christian, it becomes more open to sodomy, promiscuity, drugs, transgenderism, and any other depraved act.

>argument to believe

The smartest people in the world think that the universe is so complex, that the human brain cannot comprehend its entirety - yet what we can comprehend seems to be a nearly infinite system of systems that all work together in perfect synchronicity even without batteries and politicians. Agnostics just refuse to see past superficialities, and atheists are actually smug anti-theists who cannot conceive of any being greater than themselves.

Agnosticism is untenable because metaphysical knowledge is possible. You gotta pick a side.

Or you could just take the Peterson pill.

>either you except that God is magic and created everything
>or that the universe is infinite and without purpose

Fixed that for you

>most of Sup Forums is agnostic
So I'm right then. Thanks.

>hurr durr can't be moral without religions therefore atheists are hedonists
Great argument.

>I'll call him a neckbeard, that'll show him!
Kek, why are christkikes always so easily baited? What I said in my post was a fact and any newfag a month old has seen a strawpoll link proving that. Did my picture offend your dear jew lord and savior?

In the beginning there were two kind of people

Gnostic or agnostic

Now? Who's even counting......................

True but how can you expect people like me, who haven't been raised christian at all, to ever go (back) to being religious? I'm agnostic myself and I see no reason to believe in any one religion.

Also if you look at it on a societal level, my country is filled with non-religious people yet the whole SJW, transgender etc nonsense really isn't that bad here compared to other countries, for example most parts of the US.

Sorry mate, not a typo. Just typical religiotard ignorance.

no

What doy ou have to lose if you believe in god?
>Have a little doubt but there MIGHT be a being that created the big bang
>On the off chance you are right you get saved
I find more solace in the bible than in my faith

>We live in a universe whose original is currently beyond the scope of our knowledge. Two options: 1. Honestly admit that we don't know just yet. 2. Fabricate thousands of gods, pick one from the thousands, and explain the universe with that particular god. Hmmm....I'm going with option 2.

FTFY

*origin

Christcuck will never ever be able to defend their religion with valid arguments because their holy book is contradictory. If you unironically worship the jewish god from the old bible you are 100% a cuck. Jewish people were literally gods chosen people and unless your a kike that means to god you aint fucking shit compared to a kike.

>in old testament basically everyone auto goes to hell
>god decides lul these (((people))) are extra special fuck all you other faggots
>i will lead you to the promised land
>i will kill and smite entire cities full of goyim for you
>they don't even matter to me even though I never gave them the same chances my chosen (((people))) had
Thats literally most of the old testament in a nutshell. Gods (((chosen people))) being given a free ride to heaven, they still fuck up every command given to them, but those dirty goyim who had no extra special favor are smited like rats and cockroaches.

Thats just not true, as an agnostic, I both accept that either we're the result of the chance of this universal explosion/expansion cycle or that "something" set in motion this end result, and if it did we would consider that "god".

>Agnostics just refuse to see past superficialities
Sorry no again. I accept the possibility of a god, even if we need to one day create it. I look past the superficialness of worldly religions though, and refuse their interpretation of what god is and what his rules are.

I live life as if there is a god, while not believing in one, but ever seeking one.

Nice try schlomo
faithandheritage.com/2011/01/a-biblical-defense-of-ethno-nationalism/

If the Jewish people are god's chosen people how come he made them all Jews?

Checkmate

>literally has nothing to do with my argument that god loved jews more than you and thought of you a nothing but a rat to be smited.
christcuck arguments everyone

>Admitting that you don't know everything
>Not trusting the word of the ancient Jews who do

For shame.

>True but how can you expect people like me, who haven't been raised christian at all, to ever go (back) to being religious? I'm agnostic myself and I see no reason to believe in any one religion.

i wasn't raised in a particularly religious household, i found God in other ways.

the problem with first world, capitalist societies is that it creates a soulless consumerist culture. we're brought up with artificial goals of "you've got to go to college, then get married and slave away for the next 40 years before dying shortly after retiring"

it's why so many of our lives seem devoid of meaning. we're brought up with this wagecuck consumerist mindset that leads only to depression and emptiness.

i obviously don't have all the answers, but I would definitely advise you to check out the Bible, and look into some of William Lane Craig's work, he's a Christian philosopher that puts forward lots of compelling reasons for God's existence.

also check out Common Filth. He does podcasts that dissect and examine the societal decay we live in, and how that relates to godlessness.

...

>sends his son to collect his sheep

The god of the old testament is the demiurge and the Jews are his servants on earth. Jesus was divine but he was a messenger from the one true god above all. The church has been corrupted by (((them))) and they have declared all the Gnostic texts heretical and had them nearly destroyed. Its all a con game to keep humans, who have the divine spark, trapped in this material world.

>His disciples said to him, "Is circumcision beneficial or not?"
>He said to them, "If it were beneficial, their father would beget them already circumcised from their mother. Rather, the true circumcision in spirit has become completely profitable."

Israelites aren't jews.

no

Christianity is not just about ""believing in god"", it's also about following a set of principles and literally living your life according to a book. It's a damn good book, sure, and imo the goods far outweigh the bads, but it's a limit regardless. Through Christianity you'll eventually be forced into making a bad choice for the sake of adhering to its principles and you'll be forced to deny facts for the sake of consistency.

Can I get a citation for this?

Cooper looks like a raptor there.

i don't practice any religion you fedora faggot.

>its ok goys god send christ to save you
>nevermind those times where I killed entire cities full of you dirt- I mean dignified people
>and also those times I sent everyone to hell except for my chosen (((people)))
>haha I was just joking around goy- i mean guys

It isn't possible to believe in God unless you humble yourself and stop believing man is god. As for a "compelling" argument, watch this debate:
youtube.com/watch?v=U5hOza8GTqk

>You will eventually sin
>You will have doubt
What do you think faith is? It's having doubt but still having hope. Jesus told us we would all be sinners, even the purist of a heart cannot escape sins.
>Died on the cross for this exact reason
>Built a religion for the very same reason
>Catholicism is the one true Christianity

Well, this is why all religions fail. If humans themselves can produce such influential works of art, which in turn affect the development of an entire generation, and end up with hivemind, then surely god could have written it into our very environment so that at x point all human populations write a "bible" that was so exact they could use it to understand each other like it was a complete translation dictionary.

>>literally has nothing to do with my argument that god loved jews more than you and thought of you a nothing but a rat to be smited.
Let me repeat what I just said: "christcuck arguments everyone"

Read the secret book of john. It is the christian gnostic tradition creation myth. It is clear, at least to me, that the god of the jews is not the true creator but the demiurge.

I hate kikes as much as the next guy, but the jews were not the chosen people
>Jesus was the key

>magic isn't magic if its god magic

>also check out Common Filth. He does podcasts that dissect and examine the societal decay we live in, and how that relates to godlessness.

Just. dead. wrong.

If you are actually interested in the truth, do some reading on societal health indicators vs religiosity.

>It's magic therefore it doesn't exist
>what is a converse fallacy famalam?

Jews are the sheep that left the flock
>cited in old testament
Jews have and always will be cucks simply because they are kikes

>i wasn't raised in a particularly religious household, i found God in other ways

Well I've never experienced anything that made me think any of the religions I heard of are actually real.

>it's why so many of our lives seem devoid of meaning. we're brought up with this wagecuck consumerist mindset that leads only to depression and emptiness.

I have never seen it like this to be honest. I was never raised to become a wagecuck consumer if I'm honest. People everywhere always told me to do what I enjoy and try to make a living out of that. Might just be me though, considering I've already been down the line of depression and emptiness before that.

>i obviously don't have all the answers, but I would definitely advise you to check out the Bible, and look into some of William Lane Craig's work, he's a Christian philosopher that puts forward lots of compelling reasons for God's existence.

When I was younger I had two christian friends and there was a time I actually tried to believe, I've read parts of the bible, looked up lots of stuff, but even then as a kid I just couldn't believe it. Out of all possible reasons for our existence, a god just doesn't seem like a realistic answer to me.

>Is there any actual compelling argument to believe in a god?

NOPE

>“For you are a holy nation to the Lord your God. The Lord your God has chosen you out of all the nations on the earth, to be His own"
Even if the modern day jews are not the real jews that doesn't invalidate my argument

I was born into a Catholic family, but I didn't accept my faith until recently
I prefer to read the bible because I still have my doubts and I enjoy the philosophies of Jesus

what you guys think about spiritism and allan kardec

> do some reading on societal health indicators vs religiosity.

I have, and that's why I believe what I believe.

FACT: Europe and North America have become less religious over the last century.

also FACT: Moral standards have rapidly decayed - promiscuity/casual sex is the norm now, homosexuality is the norm, drugs are the norm, transgenderism is the norm.

The evidence for Jesus' miracles is very strong once you investigate it

>i need a good argument to make me believe in GOD

bro if you're not looking to believe in God, you won't. you won't ever get something you don't even want

That's not what I said though. I meant that every christian will be put in a place where they'll have to make an ""objectively"" bad decision based off their religion. For example:
>denying evolution
>saying you believe in God even if you'll get shot for saying so
>Noah's ark not being possible

Those are just examples that popped in my head. Obviously if you're religious already then this wouldn't be relevant.

is there even much difference between being agnostic and being atheist?

what would you label somebody that just doesn't care about religion? because i'm not religious but i dont know if that makes me agnostic or atheist ll

brilliant

>Atheism vs Christianity
No fucking shit, atheism is literally just as illogical as religion are you fucking retarded? Agnosticism has no real counter argument or point to prove over. No way to prove god exists and no way to prove he doesn't, so you don't know.

>I believe something because I want to believe it not because I'm presented with evidence

Actually that second one is quite logical. We don't know how long of a time period there was before the formation of the universe. Over time, even a small chance of something unlikely happening will happen.

Nigga please cite these, it makes it easier to research your argument
>Old testament
I will state again, Jesus clarified who God's sheep were
Keep in mind Jesus made many Hebrews convert

Are you sure you're not a leaf?

Nigga
I just stated you can question your faith and disagree with it, its part of F A I T H
Thats like saying you cant be a republican if you believe in Global Warming

Agnostic is a subset of atheist. They both worship the same number of gods. Zero.