Are any Muslim countries ACTUALLY democracies?

archive.is/osTEM

Turkish voters face two stark choices. They will either say yes to constitutional amendments that would give Erdogan sweeping new powers or no — an act of defiance that would nominally preserve Turkey's battered democracy.

Erdogan's proposed system “has no parallel in the modern world,” wrote Henri Barkey, the director of the Middle East Program at the Woodrow Wilson International Center for Scholars. “It eviscerates the power of both the legislative and judicial branches of the government in favor of the executive, which will be concentrated in the hands of one person.” It would also create new presidential term limits allowing Erdogan to remain in office as late as 2029. If all goes to plan, Erdogan will have governed his nation for more than a quarter of a century when he finally steps down.

Erdogan has made no secret of his desire to reshape the Turkish system. For decades, his supporters argue, Turkey's dysfunctional parliamentary politics were an obstacle to successful governance and led to crises that triggered military coups. In the wake of last year's failed coup attempt, they say there's an even stronger need for a presidency that can withstand plots by unelected officials.

“It became clear to us that a presidential system whereby the president is elected by popular vote forces groups to compromise with one another and nominate a candidate whom the public at large could support to win more than 50 percent of the vote,” wrote Ayse Sozen Usluer, a foreign policy adviser to Erdogan. Right now, there is only one figure who could possibly win that share of the vote: Erdogan himself.

Kuwait, also probably the most Westernized Muslim country

Pakistan

This pic is so hot. The bearded guy in the centre...

there's no such thing as democracy you stupid amerifat. it's just a way to rule slaves without fear of uprising

this is more obvious in 3rd world garbage countries but westerners are more bluepilled about it because they have good economies and lead selfish hedonistic materialistic lives

why is there a referendum in turkey? because they want to turn it into a so called non democratic state so the people would support "democracy bringers" when bombs start dropping

>oy vey goyim! Give me extended presidential powers and a longer term! I promise to step down at the end
>oh whoops! I accidentally used my sweeping new powers to become el presidente for life
>oh well goyim, this is what you voted for right?
$20 says the turks are dumb enough to vote yes.

>implying there is anything wrong with dictatorships
>implying democracy is not a front for the rule of (((financial elites)))

yes but the leader must be a patriot turk, not a georgian jew

turk hivemind is similar to wolves and is most efficient when there is a leader of the pack. the last real leader was ataturk and we've been waiting for a new one ever since

I know that feel.

The hardest part of dictatorship is finding a worthy dictator. Those are qute rare.

retarded kemalists like this guy are worse than muslim akp supporters

This

I lmao at westerners who think they live in democracies.

...

k*rd detected

>Retard about to vote away his freedom.
>Hurr Durr no democracies exist

>vote no
>Erdoroach blames Gulen
>the votes were "hacked"
>he becomes Emperoach of ottoman hive anyway
Screencap this.

my freedom is my god given right, no man or his made up institutions can have a say over it burger. I know your understanding of freedom means having a broad selection of consumer items and meaningless distractions but I see it differently

>Turkish voters face two stark choices. They will either say yes to constitutional amendments that would give Erdogan sweeping new powers or no — an act of defiance that would nominally preserve Turkey's battered democracy.

So democracy isn't about the choice of people now, is it? You are implying it isn't democracy if majority of the people trust and want their president to have all the power.

>let's have a voting to abolish any voting

how's this democratic?
(you), joao

You dont have to be jealous. It will take work roach but you too can taste the sweet air of freedom. And I dont mean trying to immigrate stay where the fuck you are cunt.

>You are implying it isn't democracy if majority of the people trust and want their president to have all the power.
it isn't democracy in this conditions, checks and balances is there for this goddamn reason. to prevent someone to abuse his power.

If the people vote democratically to give a man the power its stops being democracy the moment the vote is count.

there would be no abolition of any voting though, where you got that from?

in this case in turkey checks and balances puts the country into a halt

deal with it, if yes passes its the choice of the majority

if you start a civil war over it youre the most retarded people on earth

every system is corruptible, that's why ataturk said these exact words

>Turkish Youth!

Your first duty is forever to preserve and to defend the turkish Independence and the Turkish Republic.

This is the very foundation of your existence and your future. This foundation is your most precious treasure. In the future, too, there may be malevolent people at home and abroad who will wish to deprive you of this treasure. If some day you are compelled to defend your independence and your republic, you must not tarry to weigh the possibilities and circumstances of the situation before taking up your duty. These possibilities and circumstances may turn out to be extremely unfavourable. The enemies conspiring against your independence and your republic, may have behind them a victory unprecedented in the annals of the world. It may be that, by violence and ruse, all the fortresses of your beloved fatherland may be captured, all its shipyards occupied, all its armies dispersed and every part of the country invaded. And sadder and graver than all these circumstances, those who hold power within the country may be in error, misguided and may even be traitors. Furthermore, they may indentify their personal interests with the political designs of the invaders. The country may be impoverished, ruined and exhausted.

Youth of turkey's future,

Even in such circumstances it is your duty to save the Turkish Independence and Republic.

You will find the strength you need in your noble blood.

>ever trusting ((youth))

they have absolutely no responsibilities, they have no knowledge, they reject every bit of knowledge that huts their liberal sensibilities

i would never trust a ((youth)) with anything

>in this case in turkey checks and balances puts the country into a halt
no, that's not how it works. are you seeing how trump got shoved by a mere judge? that's checks and balances. are they got into a halt?
we failed him man. he would have spitted on our faces.

And so? Isn't it up to the people? They want it. The majority wants it. And nobody is abolishing voting rights.

And you people make it sound like democracy doesn't leave anyone choice. People have to accept it. What if people of a country do not want democracy?

>And so? Isn't it up to the people?
no it is not. institutions are there to stop tyrants, even the people want the tyrant. because common people are uneducated, don't know the political factions' differences and only votes for their short term interest.

fuck the people.

and that puts the country into a halt

its completely useless and harms the country

trump just wanted to do logical things, put a ban on muslims, put up a wall, so on and so forth, but a liberal bitch is not allowing him


ataturk believed in the most racist ideas there was at the time, if you make the ((youth)) today follow what ataturk followed, they will say "icky racist"

even with you being "educated", you still cant see that all the political parties all have natos interest at heart to begin with

your education is useless

you have no other choice, the young is the future. that's why the family is the most important building block of a nation and that's exactly why kikes are attacking at it

take it easy, it's not over. he said all of these will happen and it did (including ar*b spring). now we will see what happens next

>Are any Muslim countries ACTUALLY democracies?
Well, there is sweden

the ((youth)) in china didnt hesitate kill their relatives in the name of the revolution

i do not trust youth because theyre so easy to manipulate

>institutions are there to stop tyrants
And who is going to put check and balances on these institutions? If they have the power to force their say despite the voices of the majority, aren't they themselves tyrants then?

>fuck the people
Not sure what Ataturk would say to that.

The fact is that democracy isn't compatible with Islam at all. And a Muslim majority country like Turkey, with their history, is never going to be ok with a western secular product that is democracy.

>ataturk believed in the most racist ideas there was at the time
he was a nationalist, not a racist. two different things.
>and that puts the country into a halt its completely useless and harms the country
nope.
>trump just wanted to do logical things,
>put a ban on muslims
can't do that in a democracy
>put up a wall
and give river to the mexico? ok.
>so on and so forth, but a liberal bitch is not allowing him
not liberals, but the men and women who hold high the constitution.
interest for the country, not for their benefit.
>And who is going to put check and balances on these institutions?
the founders, which they did.
>If they have the power to force their say despite the voices of the majority, aren't they themselves tyrants then?
>be people
>want to give away your democratic rights
>institutions say no you can't, that's yours forever
>hurr durr you are tyrants.
come on man.

>Not sure what Ataturk would say to that.
he didn't see what we saw.
>And a Muslim majority country like Turkey, with their history, is never going to be ok with a western secular product that is democracy
fuck the muslims. we are the other half of the country. they have to deal with it.

you are a liberal bitch, ataturk would call you a faggot

>>fuck the people
>Not sure what Ataturk would say to that.
He secularised and reformed the country against the people's will.
Democracy is useless when the media is monopolised and the people uneducated.
I doubt most Turks actually know what they're voting for.

>kemalist
>liberal
learn your shit.

>I doubt most Turks actually know what they're voting for.
they don't, and erdoğan tries to make sure that they don't learn.

The people in a democracy need a constitutional defense mechanism to prevent abuse of the system. To prevent tyranny of the majority you need a strong constitution that prevents certain things like the ability of the mob to vote their rights away

you have pretty much written a liberal plea in your post

Democracy was a mistake.

>my freedom
>mudslim
>literally means submissive
Kek.

plato was right

You mean like the VMRO suppressing the formation of a new government?

are you using liberal in an american sense?

ataturk supported democracy based on turkish nationalism but only after people were educated properly. he was poisoned by kikes and his traitor friend transformed the country into a democratic state prematurely

ataturk brought a education system which transformed uneducated peasants into well educated good citizens. banned islam in state matters. he even changed call to prayer to turkish. he changed "allahu akbar" to "tanri uludur". the word tanri comes from tengri. he changed the language to real turkish, cleaning up most of the ar*bic words and shit

kikes reverted all of this after killing him so we end up with an uneducated trash population and shitty traitor enabling government system

this. but inönü was never a traitor.

>Democracy is useless when the media is monopolised and the people uneducated.
Isn't world media and education monopolized by the United Nations? Does that mean that all the democracies, this order of the world we have accepted after WW2 useless?

>I doubt most Turks actually know what they're voting for.
Do you realize how big of a problem that is? In a system which claims to be for the people and all the similar bullshit, people are blind, deaf and dumb. Its a huge farce then. A great deception.

So democracy is a system which believes in the rule of the majority with the underlying assumption that the majority are fools who needs to be protected. Right? Nothing can be more hypocritical and unjust than that.

You described Amerikkka.... 2 bs choices not really democracy

Well VMRO is suppressing the formation of a new government like you said, but they barely got 3 more seats in parliament so its not mob power. What i meant was that the people (mob) of a country cant have absolute power to change key elements of the system if the vote for that democratically, and if their desired changes are contrary to the constitution. Constitutional obedience needs to be put before democracy and mob rule.

It is literally tyranny of the majority.

This. Majority of the people are too busy earning their daily livelihood and taking care of their families to know about all aspects and dynamics of mechanisms that run human society. In a system like democracy, where they have a "choice" and their opinion counts, they are easily manipulated. And that is why the election process is such a circus show of propaganda, campaigns, gambling, evil alliance, investments, trading etc.

Christianity gives people "choice" and that is why it is evil. The only solution is to submit to the will of Allah. The only one God. That is natural and aligns with the laws that run the universal system. That is why there is no choice than to submit the world to Islam and Sharia.

Germany, France, GB, Sweden, you bigot

Yes. Plato was right democracy is very easily manipulated into mob rule. A strong county is only one with a strong rule of law free of the mob mentality of a foolish majority, and this rule of law is just basic constitutionalism. Nothing hypocritical about that.

So what's so different about this system compared to what the US has?

Do Sweden and Germany count?

>covered in some sort of liquid
>their pants are too

are they going to holocaust themselves?

The story of the macedonian elections is a bit more complicated than that. Its basically one party(VMRO) that has infiltrated every goverment institution it the past 9 years they were in power, and is now using that power to try to stay in power. In the latest election they performed the worst yet, barely winning by 3 seats in parliament and still not having a majority. Its not a simple case of mob rule

erdoğan is based af deal with it kikelord

Turkey once, but not anymore. Besides that democracy in an ethical understanding of the values it represents - maybe Jordan.

its turkish heterosexual oil wrestling

very not gay sport

Except Switzerland, there are no democracies in the West. Read James Burnham's Managerial Revolution or Paul Gottfried on the same topic

I meant more as the majority of Macedonians are still not Albanian so they can use their clout to suppress the Albanian parties in the country.

>merican democracy
>outcome will be same who matter you elect as it proves today
>questioning elite pedos and government false flags made you commit suicide by 2 bullets from back of head
>questioning holocaust equal wanting to nuke entire planet
>shalom aleichem

>kikes reverted all of this after killing him
What?

The short answer: NO.
They're all Homo-ocracies!!!

Westernised=degenerate

And for that Dubai is the place to be.

More online order hooker than London.

Well Albanian parties have been in every government for a long time in independent Macedonia and its always the majority Albanian party forming a new government with the majority Macedonian party so i cant see how Albanian parties are suppressed. And this isn't mandated by law, but its an unwritten tradition

Democracy isn't real is most countries, exception being places like Poland and Hungary.

However Assad is probably the most western friendly leader. Syria was a nice country before the rebellion.

democracy is a meme

Kuwait? BAHAHAHAHA. If only you knew you retard.

You do realize a llocal Kuwaiti can literally murder, torture and rape any of the million foreign migrant workers in their country and get away with it? There is no rule of law in Kuwait. The rule is the guy with most wasta (connections) gets it all.

I knew a US Marine who told me one of his friends who was in Kuwait got into an argument with a local about some stupid shit, and he was found a few weeks later in a sewer with his balls cut off. It was labelled a suicide.

There was a case where a Kuwaiti soldier murdered and THEN raped the corpse of his maid / slave, and he got away with it.

Kuwaitis can murder, torture, starve, rape their migrant population and you call that Westernized. They are dirty, filthy uncouth savages. Honestly, it brings a tear to my eye knowing Saddam Hussein could have owned and humiliated that vile, disgusting country. Kuwait is the property of Iraq. UK/US should never ever have aided this vile, disgusting country. Their fake parliamentary democracy is a complete joke, just like all democracies in Islamic countries. Parliament only works in cultures where the principles of the enlightenment are known and absorbed by the population. That certanily doesn't existed in a filthy, stinking desert shithole known as Kuwait, where the population are a bunch of perverted rapists who think they can molest and rape any uncovered women because they believe it is their right to do so if a woman "seduces" them.

Honestly I'm so mad that you called Kuwait Westernized. They are not civilized, they are barely human, let alone Westernized.

As if it isn't the same in literally every other country. Your country was the origin of the "deep state" meme (NATO stay behind networks / Ergenekon), it exists in every country. And while most democracies are usually subverted or at least constrained by the permanent bureaucratic class, there do exist small examples of successful democracies, like direct democracy in the cantons of Glarus or Appenzell Innerhoden in Switzerland. Of course, like any human system they can be subverted and corrupted and I do agree that most systems tend towards oligarchy in the end. With the existence of any secret societies or organizations which infiltrate the institutions of society, you will always end up with an oligarchy where a powerful group sets, or at least constrains, the options available to the public.

I was thinking... holy shit, a smart Paki and then you chimped out at the end, as usual. Always the fucking same.

im not denying all is same shit in different color

>your very purpose is to protect Turkey
What a sad life!