Is it wrong to think the EU is a net positive overall?

Just from a utilitarian standpoint, I understand that a lot of the stuff it does or is is garbage, like its sprawling and often inefficient bureacracy, or the red tape and regulations I've heard it overuses and pointlessly throws around and slaps onto everything.

At the same time however, I believe a single trade union and relatively open borders between most of the countries of Europe, which for now at least are mostly filled with good non-terrorist non-idiot populations. Additionally it does incredible work towards scientific funding for large and invaluable projects, like the Human Brain Project, nuclear fusion (ITER), and space travel, among many others. Not only that but Europe is the most peaceful it's ever been, with no major wars in non-former Soviet bloc countries since the end of WWII.

I understand a lot of the bullshit the EU does pisses people off justifiably and is retarded, like its promotion of leftism/liberalism constantly perhaps against the interest of native Europeans, attacking anything Right-Wing, giving Germany too much power, and many other things, but I still believe that the EU is a net benefit to Europe and its separate economies overall. Am I wrong?

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youtu.be/qpUh_ejubyY
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Space_Agency#Budget_appropriation_and_allocation
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>Not only that but Europe is the most peaceful it's ever been, with no major wars in non-former Soviet bloc countries since the end of WWII.
Majority of EU countries are in NATO and have been since before the creation of the EU

In theory, yeah, you're right. The EU started off as a good idea, because it wasn't as intrusive and controlling as it is now. Open borders and free trade between the various European countries - great. But by now, all the idiotic political rubbish has far overwhelmed those original, simple ideas. It isn't worth holding on to those two ethos when you consider all the baggage that comes with it.

Yep it's wrong.
youtu.be/qpUh_ejubyY

Eu provides nothing that a nation state goverment can't give its citizens. It's just pointless

Free trade and opened borders between multiple nation states, a larger collective pooled funding source for science projects, infrastructure, etc.

It's like saying the US could be off as separate independent nations instead of one country, it's technically true but it wouldn't economically work out as well for the states and it wouldn't be funding such massive projects and achieving such monumental things like the Space Program.

The US isn't dealing with countries and identities that are already thousands of years old.

The European Space Agency isn't even part of the EU

No, obviously not, but the ESA does get a large amount of funding directly from the EU.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Space_Agency#Budget_appropriation_and_allocation

you can argue that the euro may not suit every country but the there is nothing wrong with the EU.

it's basically a glorified free trade agreement which is not a bad thing.

German domination of the EU means it has conquered without war, and signing up to the EU is signing up to the Fourth Reich. Germany is at the geographic heart of the EU. It is also at least for the next two decades likely to remain the continent’s largest economy and most populous country.
Ask the Greeks if you think I exaggerate: Germany runs Europe without firing a shot. It forces far weaker partners to stay in a currency zone that is crippling them, and uses its economic muscle to dictate immigration and other key policies.
We have learned our lessons and today we focus on destroying europe again with our influence and economic power.
What did you expect?
A friendly germany? A germany that got no influence anymore? On nothing?
Great products with the stamp "made in germany" are superior to your inferior products.
We hold europe, if germany gets destroyed it will influence all other states around the world. We won this war.
What our soldiers couldn't achieve is what our ruthless economics achieved.
Destroying germany means destroying every other state in europe immediately and others in the longer run.

A small country dictating the borders for others because of trade deals is the most globalist thing on the Planet.

I am of course speaking about Belgium and their politicians. The EU as a trade pact would work better without Belgium and especially if you all forcefully remove Germany.

Except the EU and the ideological foundations and goals it has are directly contradictory to anything a "European Reich" would ever have or want.

Everything you say is correct, but don't try to discuss it here because all you'll get is memed on by salty brits. Or the falseflagging AfD German who posts this pasta in every single pro-EU thread so he can incite people against the EU by posting that trash

> Anonymous (ID: esDAf06b) 04/15/17(Sat)15:25:36 No.121209965 â–¶

(You)
Except the EU and the ideological foundations and goals it has are directly contradictory to anything a "European Reich" would ever have or want.

thats why its the fourth Reich and not the third. We never do things the same if it failed the last time.

no it's not wrong
Sup Forums's group think just believes that whatever they don't like is pushed by jew shills

The problem is the EU greatly exceeded what a trade union is for.
Something meant to encourage business turned into something that runs the whole fucking continent like a business.

Take the "we need workers, thus immigrants" argument
It's a disgusting and purely corporatist approach. It focuses on GDP, on economic growth, etc, just as if it were a corporation.
For a corp it makes lots of sense that from time to time you have to make budget cuts, fire workers and replace them with less skilled workers, just to optimize profits. It's not pretty, but it makes sense
But this applied to a country, means basically "our GDP will grow if we just have more population, and even replace some workers".
The original people don't grow, the institution does.

This is just an example, of course there are lots of good policies that helped the EU grow, but it really goes to show how terrible is the corporatist Zeitgeist of the EU.
All countries are ever more run by corporations, lobbies and think tanks. and the EU maximizes EVEN MORE the outreach of those groups, specially stemming form Germany

I'm sad people tend not to see the good things, but honestly, it's no wonder; every single living organism will prefer a life of hardship against curtailing his own survival and reproductive instincts

On top of all that, it's not even lawful immigration
>little to no background checks
>laws not enforced for the poor suffering migrants
>saying all this is a hate crime
>shaming nationalists
and the cherry on top is that all this is never questioned because it's done on the name of virtuous shit like love and tolerance, and the nazis are pure evil.


So yeah, people are just starting to put their survival instincts before "economic growth"
They to hold the reins of their destiny again, on a communal and even national level, say no to an institution that underrepresents them.

To add to that:
Economic meassures and their consequence are complex to understand, but the "migrant quotas" bullshit is a no-brainer:
It showed unequivocably the lesser countries how little control they have over their own destiny

It's literally a "brake the chains" narrative, and it's a cruel irony that lobbies twisted things in such a way that humanists, leftists, freedom fighters, antifascists are rejecting this strive for freedom.

>Ask the Greeks if you think I exaggerate
I don't understand what happened to greece
AFAIK, similar to what happened to us: contract a lot of debnts, make terrible populist investments, go bankrupt. Isn't it their fault?

Here it was a shit neoliberal government in cahoots with the US. The policies here benefited INCREADIBLY foreign companies. We practically privatized state-run companies for pennies, and things weren't run any better.
So really, it was outsiders and corrupt politicians + economic ignorance of the people.

Is it similar with Greece? Here the outsiders didn't give a fuck if we went broke, as long as they could plunder shit in the meantime.
But afaik Germany doesn't want Greece to go bankrupt.

Was germany responsible for the Greek denbts? Or was it their own fault?

did you copy the post?

to reply to someone just click on the post number, and if you were selecting text of their post it will get auto-quoted

see, I'm selecting "Except the EU", and clicking your post:
>Except the EU

You'll like the EU if youre a corporatist capitalist scumbag.

Restrict unregulated EU citizen border crossings, limit soicalist agenda and stop pushing EU laws. Then we will talk.

>did you copy the post?
i dont know what happend there, i wondered too.

>Was germany responsible for the Greek denbts? Or was it their own fault?
Its their own fault but we profit from it thats why they say its our fault.

If the EU wasn't such a fucking leftist project it might have been for good.

lel.

Israel rules us all. When will you accept it ?

Don't be fooled. Before EU we already had a trade union. Most European countries also had open borders with each other, though this is no longer healthy with the massive immigration waves.

EU is poisonous, it takes out our independence and puts it in the hands of undemocratically elected commissars in Brussels. There's a reason why Brexit succeeded. There's a reason why many Europeans are voting for anti-EU parties. If it did work, we wouldn't feel this way. As of right now, it provides nothing beneficial that we didn't have already in the EEC.

The EU, when it started as a trade union and ONLY a trade union, was a good thing. Europe had a good opportunity to recover from WWII. You'll be hard-pressed to find people who were against the trade union on its own.

Then the EU became political, without an actual say-so from the Europeans. Then "EU-citizenship" overrode national citizenship. Nations weren't allowed to bar non-citizens anymore on threat of punishment, meaning it only took one suicidal nation to bring in half the middle East and nobody could stop hem, as well as Eastern Europe massively coming to Western Europe to suppress the working class' wages.

Several years later the Europeans finally got a "Parliament" that could not initiate or repeal legislation, making it a toothless tiger. This "open border" thing could not repealed, as the EU Commission refuses to vote on it.

If it had remained the trade union it started as, then we would've all been better off. It's grown, cancerously, and it's harming member states with every new addition, every new regulation, every new law, using its past self to justify its tyranny today.

The EU is the sharlatan who has started adding cyanide to your medicine, and it forces your hand because your illness gets worse if you stop taking it.

Europe is full of multiple nationalities that have thousands of years of baggage and history. The US doesn't have that baggage.

>Am I wrong?
yes

can we agree that slavery was a net positive for america? sure, it sucked for the slaves but that is more than offset by the enjoyment of a lavish lifestyle by the slaveholders.

this, this so much

Fuck off Frauke

1957-1992 free trade zone for sovereign nations

1992-2017 FEDERAL SOYUZ TAKEN OVER BY LEFTIST COMMISSARS