What's wrong with communism?

What's wrong with communism?

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Nothing, except for the fact that it's just Sup Forums's logic turned against itself.

The only reason people love Hitler rather than Stalin isn't because of any virtue, but rather because they've got interests on one side.

The people.

...

It doesn't work

It's modern feudalism.

Basically you take staff from the middle class and give it to the beggars who elected you.

inherent flaws in biological life.

This. How do they determine value and demand?

It's a death cult.

Literally solves problems by killing people.

>dude just let the government distribute all the resources we can trust them lol *starves to death every single time*

Labor hours input for output of product.

>pol doesn't like Stalin
fag I've been a naz-bol for years

What

How long you work on something doesn't determine its value. You can spend all day digging a hole but that doesn't mean someone will pay you for it.

So I can slack off, then claim i spent thousands of hours working to greatly raise the value of what i produce?

Oh wait no you'd solve that with the only way commies know how. By threatening me with gulags and death.

this
now fuck off

You must know.

Fake news

So If i fuck your mom all day I should get paid more than the doctor that only got one patient the whole day? Neat.

Can my hours playing overwatch count as labor? How many streaming views do I need to count as a full time laborer of vydia in your commie society?

Well, it sounds like you would just price fixing the cost of all labor, which would on its own collapse with civilization, so even answering that is redundant.

What's wrong with it is that its collectivistic goal can only be achieved by a centralization of economic power that leaves the people without freedom, that is unstable and easily corruptable and without the absolute consent of the people highly unethical.

That's exactly what it means, dingus. If industry requires that a hole be dug, then my time digging the hole will have value to the production of their goods/services and my time will be awarded proportionally.

As opposed to what, termination of employment? Do the work that you are assigned just like in capitalism. Thieves are thieves and thieves deserve to be punished.

>de-establish all systems and rules of economy and class and structure

>return to the wild and claim everyone needs to work for free and selflessly while being aware that they could be a victim of anther's mishaps at anytime

>call that progress

fucking lefties everytime

It doesn't solve the nigger problem

No body is assigned to work in capitalism you moron. Anyone can choose to by work and fend for themselves if they believe they can.

Capitalism does things by consent, Communism by force

Everyone has a relatively short work week in a communist state, somewhere between 15-30 hours as dictated by the party.

Your labor will be rewarded with produce, as will everyone else. Why do you feel the need to have more resources than everyone else in your community? The surplus of collective labor is enough to sustain everyone and much more

you have no personal liberty and cant own shit

It never works

It sounds good on paper, but it's horrible on practice.

False science behind (labor cost theory).
Authoritarian trap of society building principle (lets give unlimited power to entity with no oversight).

You have no idea what you're talking about. When communists talk about personal property, they talk about roads and factories, not houses and computers.

>Communism
Pick a trade
work within that trade
under authority and regulation of the communist party/union

>Capitalism
pick a trade
work within a trade
under the authority and regulations of a union/capitalist employer and board of investors


Please tell me that capitalists aren't this economically illiterate.. It's no wonder you people are okay with getting fucked in the ass

Atheist. Also not monarchism.

>monarchism

Good goy.

Because there is almost no metric for measuring quality of labour performed.

If i choose to be a inefficient worker, then i will reap the same rewards as those who break their backs for the work. In fact, because of something known as the Pareto Distribution, this is guaranteed to occur, with one square root of the population producing half of the labour.

And how do you make the others work just as hard? Impossible, unless you bring the shadow of the gulag to haunt them. And even then, you mightn't be able to squeeze the same amount of labour out of one man as you can another. So what do you do then? The only way is to drag down those at the top to the level of the lowest common denominator. And as such, progress in all forms in your shitty communist utopia grinds to a halt.

>When communists talk about personal property, they talk about roads and factories, not houses and computers.
Roads and factories = private (or in communism's case mutual/communal/whatever property). Houses and computers would be personal property.

Americans usually think that "no private property" means "no personal property".

And not to mention that in sane versions of communism, the means of production are simply co-owned by the workers, which basically gives them all a share of the "private property" instead of capitalism where only one person owns it, and the others don't own shit.

>Because there is almost no metric for measuring quality of labour performed.

whatthefuckamireading.jpg

Communism is socialism in its purest form. It doesn't work because it is not being balanced by an opposing ideology. So it turns into a purity circlejerk and gulags.
Basically it's not a radical centrist position.

How can you be this pathetic?

And you still fail to understand retard that the amount of time you spent digging the hole doesn't determine its value, that's determined by demand and supply. If every retard with a shovel is out there digging a hole, the price you can demand for your goes down because if the buyer doesn't like the price, they'll go to someone offering it cheaper. You will NEVER be able to determine somethings value by the amount of effort and hours put in because no one will give a fuck if they don't want it

>instead of capitalism where only one person owns it,

Are you really this fucking stupid?

Jordan is doing better than Somalia, North Korea, and Venezuela are.

Don't be retarded. In Capitalism, you have the ability to work for yourself or choose who you work for, it doesn't necessarily have to be for a corporation or a union.

> Communism
> Pick a trade
> Sent to Gulags because i chose a line of work the party considered dangerous

> Pick a trade
> Reassigned to farming because the glorious party removed the Kulaks and now we're all starving.
> Sent to Gulags for not working hard enough

> Pick a trade.
> Talk with friends about how differently this job is to other countries.
> Sent to Gulags for propaganda

Gee, it's almost as if commies quash human rights wherever they go...

shitty ideology

You act like there is no other incentive but punishment...

Promotion, prestige, working your way up the party and the admiration of your community are all motivators.

Because the science of communism and the reality of communism don't match up. People like being powerful. And because no one could own anything there was no personal aspiration, so no one worked hard. You were just put on a list and told when your name came up, whenever that was. People met quotas by just fudging the paperwork and the bureaucracy is often so elephantine that nothing's checked, it's the same reason factory managers could get off with shoddy work.

>dig holes all day around my house when there is no rain
>pay me for it
>no i am not gonna clean sewers even if they require cleaning, clean them yourself faggot i prefer digging holes
>no i am not gonna work in rain i have my own schedule
>no i don't to learn no stinking math and education, math lessons hurt my head, i want to be hole digger and you will pay me as much as to that eggheads because "labor hours input"
>no i don't care you don't need these holes
>gibb money

...

>And because no one could own anything
HEY MORON
READ A BOOK
OR AT LEAST A WIKIPEDIA ARTICLE

This is basically what you are saying...

>In a capitalist society, you can GET AWAY WITH OFFERING LESS for the same amount of work because market saturation

How is this fair?

It's not. No one will need a hole dug unless it produces value through product or service. If I need diggers to construct a road, why should they be rewarded any less than those that lay the cement or those that roll it or those that paint it?

They all play an integral role in the production of the road which improves the quality of life for all.

Capitalism exploits desperation.

Capitalism:
>Work on space travel.
>Invent Velcro.
>Make Velcro a commercial product.
>Billions of people use Velcro.
>Autists can finally put shoes on.
>You are rich and your entire lineage lives comfortable lives.

Communism:
>Work on space travel.
>Invent Velcro.
>Show your cobbler friend Velcro to research applications of Velcro technology for glory of great Motherland.
>Secret police find you have shared secret government technology with unapproved outer party member.
>Immediate summary execution.
>Family sent to Gulag.
>Family dies in Gulag.
>Central government decides Velcro is subversive to the revolution.
>Autists are never able to wear shoes without tripping over their own laces.
>Autist that would have discovered cure for cancer trips over his own laces hits his head on a curb.
>Realizes cure for cancer but is now completely paralyzed and cannot communicate.
>Communist government euthanizes autist because he is a drain on the state resources and appears to just be a vegetable.
>Now your mom will die from cancer in her sleep if you don't reply to this post.

>How is this fair?
Why should I care about the fairness of the system?

HAHAHAHAHAH

Mate, look around you. Who really wouldn't are about any of that in comparison to everything that Communism robs from people (Abundance in food, hard earned wealth, personal freedom and liberty?)

I get the impression that communism leads to people only owning the thoughts that are in their head once utopia mode has been achieved. Mind you if you openly speak those thoughts and it is not approved by the party you will be reported and sent to goulag

...

Because you work within the confines of that system. If you collectivize with your people, you can make sure that the rules of that system are more equitable for all, and not "the crown" or a handful of oligarchs.

Why are monarchists such cucks?

It's not just openly thinking the thoughts. Communism leads to people being directly scheduled for summary execution because of the potential for thoughtcrime.

Watch some interviews with Yuri Bezmenov. He defected from the Soviet Union in horror in large part after discovering many of his most talented friends who were extremely passionate communists had been listed for execution, simply because they knew too much. They had studied communism too well and were too intelligent and the communist government knew that even if they were exceptionally loyal today that if they did betray the government then they would be its worst enemies and so it was safer to kill them then to allow the potential for that to happen.

>No one will need a hole dug unless it produces value through product or service.
But hole diggers don't care about your "value". He dug holes in the field where no one gonna build roads (because it close to his house) and now demands his reward because he spent his hours of labor.

This is literally the story of Donbass coalminers.

How is it fair to the cement layers or the painters, whose work might require more knowledge and skill, being paid the same as someone who dug a whole, which almost anyone can do? Your idea of "fairness" doesn't seem "fair" to me

>Promotion
It's a communist society. How can you promote? Everyone gets payed equal right? Why would you want to promote and get a harder job and have to learn a new skill?
>prestige
If you have ever worked a job you would know that this is bullshit. Most people don't care about prestige if it means nothing but a compliment. Nobody is going to work harder or more efficient than some lazy fuck just because they can get a 'Good job!' from their communist overlord. People work for money / wealth, not for a compliment.
>Working your way up the party
This just sounds like corruption. If you work long or hard enough and make enough friends you can get better positions politically? Plus why would you even want that since you get paid equally anyway?
>admiration of your community
That's pretty much prestige and as I said that's not a proper motivation if that endorsement means absolutely nothing.

Jordan is doing better than Venezuela, North Korea, Somalia, and Cuba.
Monarchism: 4
Communism: 0

You still haven't explained how to determine value and demand.

At least monarchists are open in their power structure beliefs instead of pitting "groups" against each other to morally justify taking what some successful individuals have accumulated in life.

That sounds about right

I explained, you just didn't understand.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Labor_theory_of_value '

Don't you have some prima nocta to give to your liege? Shoo shoo table top player

Accumulation through exploitation..

It brings only misery and suffering since the power is being focused in the hand of one man, see NK for example or Cuba

In a free-market society, capitalists fight for investors and costumers, to sell more products, and thereby more money.
In order to get more costumers, a capitalist has to sell a product or service that is of better quality or lower price than his rivals. If his product is of lower quality or higher price, he wont get nearly as many costumers as his rivals. This competition is benefiting consumer as they get cheaper and higher quality products.
When it comes to wages, it's very similar. For a capitalist to increase his profits he will want to expand his business, which requires workers. The capitalist has to pay his workers more than his rivals, if he doesn't, he wont get any workers and can't expand.

In a communist society, NOTHING of this happens.
Like we see today in countries as my own, poor people are leeching off the work of others. In a communist society, this will be the case, but much worse. There is no insensitive to make more money, cause every one else will just get as much money (or whatever way communists define value) as the people leeching. The only way to fix this is to force leeches to work making the state authoritarian (this is also why ancom will never work).
People in a communist society will also have products of MUCH worse quality, cause why would anyone improve the quality? They gain nothing from it. This is why communists got yugos, and Europeans got audies.

>Everyone gets payed equal right?
....
Jesus fucking Christ you people have to be trolling.

The fact that it could never get past state socialism and blossom into a classless utopia.

Marx incorrectly predicted Capitalism's eventual collapse. He underestimated its adaptive qualities.

You think the people who's wealth is seized are not being exploited or worse?

>when you care so much about equality that you're willing to make everyone equally poor and equally oppressed

you can't implement it without killing innocent people

>Literally solves problems by killing people.

No man, no problem!

Remember all those hundreds of thousands of soldiers sovites shoved into the finnish meatgrinder? Most were Ukrainian.

It's a shit ideology that inevitably leads to mass genocide.

>hey, we're gonna take all your stuff
>no, I won't let you
>welp, he's not innocent anymore. He's a fascist.

>en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Labor_theory_of_value
What was wrong theory and communism stood on false foundation. Result was obvious.

Sometime there's food if you wait in a line for a couple of hours.

Please enlighten us savages

>go to school for a decade to become a doctor
>save a life after 12 hours of grueling surgery
>get paid the same as the EMT-B that brought him in that went to school for 8 weeks because "we both had a share in saving the life

Totally fair and balanced.

does the line have wifi

>education doesn't put you in debt slavery
>the work fulfills you
>As an educated man you can become a community leader in the party

Because it's an ideology founded by ((them))

>This is why communists got yugos, and Europeans got audies.
Fun fact: yugos goods were considered as premium quality in USSR and were highly desirable. Yugo female top-boots were soviet meme of lifetime achievement.

It's an outdated ideology created in a time when actual monarchy's existed and there were well defined classes. It's 2017 not the 1800's for fuck sake, when will these ideological throwbacks get their shit togeather? You may as well be Amish if you like paleoidology's as they actually seem to do well enough and don't periodically genocide their own members

North Korea

Labor theory of value is bullshit because it does not take into account quality of labor. In other words, some people work better than others.

Prima nocta was a myth with no basis in actual history. It was something you accused other countries of doing.

North Korea is a monarchy

Jordan is doing better than them too.

> Ctrl F
>no jews
You disappointed me /lol/

It's a communist monarchy, communism ruins everything it touches.

North Korea is more like a combination of theme park/slave labor camp/religious cult.

Fuck that, I'll just be an EMT-B. I make the same amount of money, get to basically work out while working, get to do exciting medical stuff, and still get the respect of the community.

Also, what is this "become a communist leader" meme? Why don't I just live in a capitalist society where I can become a doctor, make fucking millions, AND become a politician and leader of the community?

The Americans didn't invent it.

Communism will never work as the theory is inherently flawed

Who are you to question king's will? He said communism, communism it is!

>muh stateless society
>muh classless society
>but first you have to socialize the means of production
communists are retards that dont see the plain dissonance in their views

>If industry requires
>Industry
You mean the government right?

Right now value is based of what people are willing to pay for. The industry decides to dig a hole somewhere because people will pay for it. The demand is based of making a profit.

How does a communism society decide what to do. Where does that "industry demand" actually come from since there's no profit?

You Got me!