Hmmm, this is really compelling argument. Really made me think

Hmmm, this is really compelling argument. Really made me think.

How about individual human responsibility? Is that not in our nature?

>Bartering, aristocracy, and Feudalism are somehow better than what we have now

wew lad

plus this same argument could be made for socialism/communism, only those are even younger than communism.

Capitalism** fuck

Also, shouldn't you be trying to find Shia Lacuck?

How does communism handle black markets? The first thing anyone would do under communism is create an underground free market...

An economy based on distributist, syndicalist and corporatist principles is god tier. Prove me wrong!

that would be illegal

If you spread the world's wealth evenly between everyone in the world, in about 4 years or so, you'd have poor people and rich people again.

I couldn't care less about some art project

Sage, there are records of exchange of products that date back to 3-4 Century B.C

Until around 10.000BC we lived like commies because our societies were composed of mostly our kin and very small. You can track reputation just by staying up to date on the gossip and watching others.

From that point onwards, you start getting credit, bartering and money as people start to produce above self-subsistence and form cities. This is capitalism, as there is some notion of private property and private ownership of the means of production, even if property rights are not that well enforced.

So you're saying that the advent of capitalism is contemporaneous with the world improving.

Makes sense.

How does capitalism handle robberies? The first thing anyone would do under capitalism is rob the banks...

Fascist Italy, Nazi Germany?

I can't
Feudal aristocracy numba 1

>distributist, syndicalist and corporatist principles

Those are three contradictory ideas, Mehmet.

Pointless argument, we already have real life examples of how we handle that. You have no answer to the underground market so you came back with a """witty"""" question to a question.

Worthless sand nigger

Fake infographic, the earth is only 6000 years old

>all those years, people didn't engage in trade for their own benefit
really put hair on my pooter

depends how you define capitalism--the purely funancial definiton didn't apply until the time indicated in the chart, but the standard definition (pic related) has applied for a pretty parge portion of human history.

Explain to me, how did the tribal humans decide on food/clothes/weapons.
How did they allocate these resources?
Some people say it was utopian communism, but I doubt it.

Probably the most retarded argument i've ever read on this board. How do you think banks guard against robberies today? The free market works it out. Banks that were robbed of all their money obviously aren't around today, because free market

Implying capitalism isn't defind by private ownership of capital, which prior to guaranteed property rights in th 1600s didn't exist

>that same stupid picture of Bugs Bunny as Stalin
jesus christ it doesn't even apply to your post. Stalin loved ballet, the fag. Speaking if fags, you commies should really find more than 1 reaction image to use.

>people just now created economies millions of years after we became human
rrrrrright gonna call bs.

We also have real life examples of how communist states tackled black markets.

With special investigators, secret police and paid informants.

Like how any country tackles black markets?

>Free exchange of goods for thousands of years
>Not capitalism
Then what was it? Centrally planned?

not the same thing, really. It's much harder to suppress a black market (see: Soviet Union, US' illegal drugs) than to prevent a bank robbery.

there was a time, even, when interest was straight up illegal. it wasn't until the banks started forming that it became a thing.

capitalism is not at all "natural" for humans.

Hey what are old coins? You know like old roman ones? Were they in fact bottle caps?

Amazing your thread made me EVEN MORE RETARDED. I didn't think it was possible but you just genocided my remaining brain cells you selfishcunt

This. Capitalism is all about becoming a better human being by learning how to work hard. Become the best human you can. You can't mature when the government takes care of your entire life for you

I'll post it again just to trigger you

Ballet is a beautiful artform that was perfected by eastern military forces for displays of grace, strength and patriotism.

I can't say the same for the French practise of sucking invading army's cocks and letting them fuck your wife.

How long ago was it that we started trading shit for horses? Is that not fundamental capitalism?

North Korea has a massive black market. Corrupt government officials either look the other way for friends and family or take bribes. Getting "caught" means you did something else to piss off the State and they're now sending you to the labor camp for black market activity they normally overlook.

In this case, it's in the interest of the North Korean government to overlook the black market because it prevents mass starvation.

It doesn't exist now, either then. We're still vassals of the king, we just abstracted away the king.

Don't pay your taxes and see how far the "guarantee" goes.

And look at how much progress has been made in that time since capitalism.

"usury" isn't the same thing as capitalism. Don't commie revisionists (who claim the USSR was state capitalist) say that EVERY trade based economy is capitalist?

You commies sure do have a hard time with basic economic definitions (basic economics, too).

good bantz fags. Maybe now you can move on to having sane worldviews?

wow it looks to me that all of our greatest advancements in technology and mathematics coincide with the invention of capitalism

Capitalism isn't human nature, but it's a system that actually works with human nature rather than against it. Communism will never work because the behaviors that are required for it to work are counter to human nature.

False equivalence. Black markets involve the illegal trade of goods between voluntary parties. Theft involves the illegal seizure of goods against an involuntary party.

Interesting perspective
Lets see the same about equal rights for women and all races.

This is the thing about black markets in really any country.

If black market laws are not being enforced then you know the country is in peril. Because it means that goods are being allowed sold that not even the own government can provide for its people. The black market is necessary.

When times are good and the system is healthy black market laws are strictly enforced once again. It's one of the easiest and most telling vital signs of a countries economic status to spot.

It's not that "capitalism" is in human nature, it's hierarchy that's in human nation. Communism goes completely against that

Yeah, because capitalism emerged during human evolution. Nobody tried to "build capitalism", like they want to "build communism", capitalism emerged because we needed something better than feudalism, so yes, capitalism is in our human nature.

>beautiful art form
bore me to death. Honestly I'd rather listen to a poorly performed Handel's Messiah than sit through a fag display (ballet performance).

fucking this

But the picture isn't true, capitalism in some form or another has most likely existed since coinage was invented. Trade and the desire to accumulate wealth while alive followed soon after the invention of coinage, this is born out by ancient burial sites.

Additionally Rome, Sumeria, and Etrusca all had open trade and had national and city-specific markets. Varna had a wealthy merchant class.

So, in summary; you are a dumbass.

Thats why it would be ... you know ... an UNDERGROUND HIDDEN MARKET

>thou shalt not steal
What is stealing exactly? Explain to me this concept

To be fair, preventing robberies under capitalism is primarily the responsibility of the individual, not the state.

Exactly what incentive do I, as a regular dude living under communism, have to not secretly participate in black markets? The drug war proves just how abysmally bad and inefficient governments are at controlling black markets... just imagine if we expanded the drug war to literally everything. Everything a human could possibly want for any reason becomes it's own mini-drug war.

Correlation =/= causation
They also coincide with the invention of the Air Pump, Champagne, and the Pocket Watch.

So I guess in your eyes that means that a bottle of champagne and an bicycle pump is also responsible for all of mankind's greatest achievements?

>Capitalism is not the voluntary exchange of service or goods for currency/wealth/assets
>Instead, capitalism is our current system where everything is ran by jews trying to screw the poor over while the same jews try to shove communism on us

ishiggydiggy

First of all, nobody says "capitalism is in our human nature." That's word salad and a strawman.
People say "capitalism works because it recognizes and incorporates human nature."

Second, private property and free enterprise have been an essential pillar of human civilization since its inception. Just because capitalism was thoroughly defined in the late 18th century doesn't mean prior forms of it did not exist.
It's ironic since commies love to pretend that hierarchically organized, meritocratic tribal societies are actually somehow communist. You could make the same argument to them about how communism wasn't properly defined until the mid 19th century and now their only convincing argument is wrong in two ways.

Okay a better way he should have put it is. How does capitalism handle black markets?

Because black markets aren't exclusive to communism. And they're both handled in basically the same way.

In a _VERY_ limited sense they are somewhat communistic. Certain things the tribe controls belong to every tribe member in good standing, rather than any one person.

That's the end of the similarities as far as I know.

It's a testament to your own stupidity that you think interest rates are a definitive feature of capitalism or that they can't exist independent from it.

>How does capitalism handle black markets?
There are no black markets under capitalism. "illegal" trade is only defined by the government and nobody else. Without any government regulations nobody will say you what's legal to trade and what's not.

REALLY FIRES UP THE NEURONS DOESNT IT????

a proper capitalist state recognizes that the banning of any good with a substantial black market is to legalize and possibly regulate

we did it with alcohol, we're doing it with weed

Tribes are just extended family units. In some ways, yes, they're like commie communes, except they're organic, and generally quite small and don't value anyone outside their extended family.

This is an oversimplification, of course--there is plenty of evidence for trading between individual camps within a tribe ("camp" being my word for 'living together in close proximity' units).

in this case there's a pretty clear and obvious correlation between venture capitalism and all of the world's greatest achievements. Your counterexamples are idiotic: was Champagne the dominant economic system during the time of the world's greatest economic achievements?

>inb4 idk im a stupid commie
no, Champagne is a sparkling white wine

>what was Rome

North Korea.

hot women in form fitting dresses twirling for my amusement?
how is that gay?

Even in the context of black markets, there are illegal goods and there is the illegal sale of legal goods which you lack the rights to legally sale.

Illegal goods are generally handled the same way in Capitalism and Communism.

I'd be curious about Communist examples where someone sells legal goods they lack the rights to legally sale, perhaps exceeding a quota or not being a state-sponsored distributor. I assume it results in Gulag, but that's just an assumption. In Capitalism, it usually means a seizure of your goods and/or a fine for violating intellectual property rights, but no threat of prison.

pretty clear and obvious causation***

So if you had to choose between taking LSD and watching 72 hours of ballet, or being nailed through the hands and feet into a lay-z-boy and listening to me fumble through handel's messiah on a theremin and glass bottle-pipes, you would choose the theremin and glass bottle-pipes?

it's not "art" if you only enjoy it for pornographic purposes

LSD and physical trauma change the comparison, you know that

Rome was far from capitalistic. agrarian and slave based. no central bank. senators often were the ones that gave out private loans.

I never said the choice would be fair. It's like life, completely unfair! Always!

Now choose damn you.

>I'd assume it results in Gulag, but that's just an assumption
kek. obviously it would result in Gulag. Solzhenitsyn was gulag'd merely for writing a letter about his experience fighting fir the USSR complaining about the lack of equipment they provided him.

Slavery and agrarian economies contradict the private ownership and trade of property how exactly?

The financial definition of capitalism is different from the general economic and political one.

>pornographic
nobody is fucking on stage
nobody is naked
and anyway, art can stimulate the desires without being pornographic
you wouldn't call a young woman in a sun dress pornographic, but I'd like to see one none the less

and aren't you frogs supposed to be more open to sex than us prudish Americans anyway?

>black markets ARE capitalism

You know what always frustrates me when socialists come here?

They're always either arrogant jews who go into it expecting you to just do whatever they say, OR, economic illiterates who've never even read a basic econ book.

Sometimes its really bad and they're both jewish and ill-informed.

I said, pornographic purposes. Reread my post

Anyway this is idiotic, you're not going to convince me to like ballet

Like Ballet and admit glorious Russian dancing is best ballet, or go to gulag comrade.

I'm not talking about stealing, I'm talking about governments just liquidating private wealth to finance wars like the French Kings did. The Knights Templar for example were a huge organization, and they fell apart because the French King simply ordained that their shit be taken. When the Dutch pioneered property rights in their law code, they allowed for true private ownership because property could not be so arbitrarily taken. Under them stocks, bonds, etc were invented.

if nobody is naked or fucking, then how is it pornographic?

Except humans were competing with each other the whole time for resources and security, which is what every single organism pretty much does. Which is also one of the foundations of capitalism, the other being consent between traders. So yes competition is human nature, consent just made fair and civil.

you are seriously dense

Hey dude you want some sheep, it'll be a couple shillings.
Sure here you go thanks for the sheep.

You don't need a central bank to trade capital, you need something worth value to someone else to make a trade.

I just saw a documentary that said we had trade and capitalism in Denmark as early bronze age.

The people back then were fascinated by the cheap blue glass they could produce in the south. Same colour as the sky and the flowers, but rare to find otherwise.
We would trade blue glass and bronze weapons for amber which found in the north, and valued as much as gold in the south.

Capitalism is a form of trade, and to trade for things has always been present in human societies. The moment our advanced form of trade (capitalism) fails, we would go back to bartering.

Capitalism was originally a philosophy for thinking about how free markets work. Free markets were always around, they just didn't become an ideal until about then.

>No one voluntarily exchanged goods and services before 1600 ad
retard
>also, quality of life from pre 1700 compared to post 1700
really jingles your jangles if you know what I mean

this desu

>n-not real communism tho

Obviously! Every exchange of goods and services, movement of funds, shipping of goods, etc was managed and adjudicated entirely by either a feudal lord or a centralized government!

Francoist Spain, Mohammed.