I've been an atheist all my life, but I've wished I was part of a religion since I was in highschool, but I've never been able to find a religion that fits what I believe even remotely, and I'm not so pathetic that I'll try to force myself to change what I believe, or fake being a believer in something I'm not.
What should I do? I've even considered trying to create my own religion, but I wouldn't know where to start.
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Worship digits. checked,
You have the spiritual sensibilities of a 5 year old.
There's always quantum spirituality mumbo.
It's at least pseudo-scientific
>tfw religious but your existence is so shit you hope it ends at death
Thanks
Quantum mechanics is mostly garbage as far as I'm concerned..
Look into gnosticism. The divine spark.
>Quantum mechanics is mostly garbage as far as I'm concerned..
Quantum Physics and quantum mechanics are indisputably scientific.
the question is to what extent.
It's retarded.
>Quantum Physics and quantum mechanics are indisputably scientific.
But what has been built with it? If you can't use it to build something, it's meaningless trash with no basis in reality.
this.
and a stupid 5 year old at that
>But what has been built with it? I
Transistors, LEDs, Lasers...
None of those need quantum to be explained.
Kraut education everyone...
The point of a spiritual practice is to assist in achieving your true potential as a self-aware being. Any religion that doesn't make you a better person is not a spiritual religion.
>I'm not so pathetic that I'll try to force myself to change what I believe, or fake being a believer in something I'm not.
Then religion isn't for you, as they are all wrong.
being an atheist isnt about being right about the afterlife, its living a life not bound by religious laws
Of course. Any kind of material science is based on solid state physics, which is based on a quantum mechanical treatment of atoms in a grid. And you can't describe lasers classically, you have to start at least with Bloch spheres (semi-clasically) or directly go to quantum field theories.
Not to mention the explanation of atomic structure, which lead to our modern understanding of the periodic table and chemical bonding. Or particle interactions which is what medical accelerators that treat cancer are built on.
Faggots.
pope-blower everyone
Believe in these digits
>imblying being a skeleton isn't fucking radical
SPIRITPOSTERS GET OUT REEEEEEEEEEE
Religious deism + natural law is pretty great, desu. I find the idea of God inherently reasonable, and the idea of revealed religion to be inherently unreasonable. Borrow Aquinas' thoughts on why non-Christians can be good people, and presto!
My only problem now is trying to find a community to belong to
>The point of a spiritual practice is to assist in achieving your true potential as a self-aware being. Any religion that doesn't make you a better person is not a spiritual religion.
It can also help with communal cohesion, but you're mostly right. It's purpose is largely emotional, that's why the fedora-tipping "debate me" atheists seem so stupid. They don't understand that religion isn't an intellectual pursuit.
But what's stopping someone from creating one that's right?
It's difficult to find other like-minded people under the label "atheist". Not all theists get along either.
Unnecessary convoluted crap mixed with half-truths.
Mine were better
Did you even read the whole picture?
>My only problem now is trying to find a community to belong to
That's the big issue, since I don't live in China.
>Unnecessary convoluted crap mixed with half-truths.
Great shitpost. Just admit you're wrong, sweety ;)
please stop bumping this bullshit thread.
As soon as you brought up the periodic table, it became perfectly clear you have no idea what you're talking about. You're not worth more than a shitpost.
You triggered?
>implying the first test model for QM wasn't the Hydrogen atom
>Implying you don't need QM to explain electron energy levels or chemcial bonding
You literally have no idea what you're talking about.
triggered by whatever point you're trying to make? if you made a point, i'd consider getting triggered, but you sound like a kid based on your rambling incoherent phrasing and limited vocabulary. Is this baby's first existential crisis. In case you're wondering, you have to be 18 to use this board kiddo.
Being an atheist has become so horribly associated with modern science worship. There's no place for atheists who don't believe in any of that Big Bang theory and expanding universe bullshit, which was a half-baked explanation created by a Christian priest and any attempts to refute it are met with hostility.
>You literally have no idea what you're talking about.
Cute.
Was meant in reply to
The other problem: any time I try to discuss religion and being an atheist, it always ends up becoming a scientific debate.
>it always ends up becoming a scientific debate.
Maybe it's because everytime you open your mouth you prove yourself to be scientific illiterate.
you're such a brainlet shitstain, it's really not even worth debating, this is probably the worst thread up at the moment. It's just you, telling Sup Forums how retarded you are.
But what does that have to do with my religious beliefs?
Nothing, but If you spout bullshit (if tangentially) people will comment on it. If you don't want it to devolve into a "scientific debate", don't try to talk about things you obviously have no clue about and stick to your beliefs
You're probably just a christfag who'll call any atheist is a "brainlet" because it makes you feel better.
...
bump.
Buddhism or some shit like that.
THat picture is false lmao
Also you can't bump your own threads, new friend
Says who?
But I don't believe in reincarnation or souls. I also like meat too much.
Then why the fuck do you want to believe in a religion faggot? Every religion in existence has some form of belief in the soul or reincarnation.
That's exactly my problem.
Well, what do you believe?
What? Why are you looking for a belief when you don't believe? You sound extremely insecure m8. You don't need a religion to fit in somewhere.
The universe extends infinitely in every direction and forwards/backwards through time, but is non-repeating like an irrational number. The mind is a function of the brain, with nothing really separating humans from animals except we're more intelligent.
There's no rational reason I can think of as to why. I've just felt a sense of incompleteness.
>I've felt a sense of incompleteness
Find a girlfriend
>like an irrational number
I don't know what that is..
>with nothing really separating humans from animals except we're more intelligent.
I dunno, man. The problem of consciousness arises, there.
anyway...you could reconcile these views with any belief system that doesn't presuppose a creator or creation myth?
Instead of thinking about it as 'making your own religion', think of it as if you're making your own IDEOLOGY.
We ALL have an ideology. It includes our beliefs, our logic, and our morality. So look at the one you have now, and look at the life you live, and about what you'd like to change.
You'll eventually figure it out, but here's some tips. Figure out your values, and ask questions about them. Logic is King, but it depends on a premise. Use the "most true truth" you have and put that as the premise of your belief system. The rest is just a matter of understanding logic and applying it to your life. But a purely rational thought pattern doesn't work, since humans AREN'T purely rational. So you need something basic to serve as a moral compass.
That concept is NAP.
You'll eventually have to deal with harder questions, so make sure you keep challenging your preconceptions. Vet everything about your beliefs even more carefully than you vet your news. And think about ALL possibilities. If something is possible, it's irrational to dismiss it, no matter how 'impossible' it appears to be.
You'll eventually be faced with the question of god. Practically speaking, most people misunderstand the question. "Does god exist" depends heavily on your interpretation of "god" and "exist", so in order to answer it rationally, you need to define those things first.
Eventually you'll realize that God is just a word that you can use like a tool. And you'll suddenly find yourself becoming increasingly theistic to the point where you literally feel like you're going insane because it makes so much sense and yet NO ONE ELSE seems to agree with you.
Except random anons on pol, ofc. Outside validation helps ground you.
If you just focus on self-reflection, logic, and compassion (nap), you will be able to slowly work through all the bullshit lies you've been fed. They say the truth hurts, but the truth is, it doesn't hurt at all. It's the LIES that hurt us.
>I don't know what that is..
Like Pi, or Phi. It doesn't repeat itself in any sort of predictable pattern. If you go out into space, you won't find another planet exactly like earth is now, and finding one that's even close is nearly impossible. Not to say alien life doesn't exist, but the Ayys won't look exactly like humans.
>I dunno, man. The problem of consciousness arises, there.
No it doesn't. It's just an arbitrary degree of brain power. You're dumber when you're half awake because some of your brain is still asleep. It's not much different than being a fully-awake animal with a smaller brain.
>anyway...you could reconcile these views with any belief system that doesn't presuppose a creator or creation myth?
Right, but there's usually something else that ruins it, like buddhism with reincarnation. I don't believe in souls or anything to reincarnate, so meditating to achieve enlightenment or anything like that is completely meaningless. Any religion without a creation myth still tends to have gods. I don't believe there really is anything non-physical like gods or spirits exists. They all rely on stuff like that, unless it's something like Taoism, which is largely a just a bunch of allegories that could easily be misinterpreted.
Rather than listening to Satan trying to form reality yourself inside your own head, try replacing your desire to be part of a religion with a thorough and complete understanding of religion.
Go out of your way to learn about the deep truths embedded within religious systems by reading countless books and articles about esoteric theology.
A big part of why so many people have grown up with no affinity for any particular religion is because religions are being taught by a lot of retards who never sought a rich understanding of their own faith and who never thought critically about what they've learned or tried to reconcile their superstitions with what they know scientifically or logically. They assume that a good believer is one who doesn't ask questions but that prevents strong belief in the first place. A good faith is a challenged one, but a good faith also requires an understanding of the religion's history, its enemies, its predecessors, its teachers, its effects on different cultures, etc.
Learn instead of doing. Then do.
But don't just read the Bible or Quaran or Torah or the Bagavad Gita outright and on your own; find a framework of analysis to learn with that brings the religion into perspective and out of magic fairytale land. I started by learning about the Freemasons first. They have rich, well-developed philosophical systems for using and understanding many different faiths. I also delved a lot into ancient history, especially ancient Egyptian and Babylonian theology.
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The key is to balance keeping an open mind with not falling for every ridiculous claim made by delusional retards.
Just accept that you aren't smarter than your ancestors and certainly aren't smarter than the 2000+ years of ideological evolution and become a Christian.
There's really nothing better.
>No it doesn't. It's just an arbitrary degree of brain power.
But consciousness developed VERY quickly in the human mind, as far as we can tell. There are some shaky theories about drugs out there that I mostly discount because they're peddled by smelly hippies with agendas, but consciousness seemed to 'arrive' or trigger rather than develop naturally.
>Right, but there's usually something else that ruins it, like buddhism with reincarnation.
This is the same problem faced by alchemists back in the day. They all found that their scientific pursuit made them gains and understanding, but there was nothing they could root it to, to tether them to a basis. They went the deist kind of route, with a "prime mover".
It really depends what you are seeking to gain. If it's community, then lie to yourself about the root cause and enjoy. If it's a tethering point for idealogy, then do the same as the alchemists did. You'll find it's not all that important, however vital it is.
>Instead of thinking about it as 'making your own religion', think of it as if you're making your own IDEOLOGY.
Not really much of a difference.
>That concept is NAP.
>Eventually you'll realize that God is just a word that you can use like a tool. And you'll suddenly find yourself becoming increasingly theistic
I was agreeing with you right up until this point. That may be the problem. I'm an atheist. I've always been an atheist. I know I'm not going to change that and I'm not going to pretend to. I understood the power of the concept of God, before I even discovered Sup Forums.
Islam and Christianity both seem like a blight on the world and I want to eradicate them, not pretend to be Christian just to take out the bigger threat.
Fuck off and die.
>But consciousness developed VERY quickly in the human mind, as far as we can tell.
Are you saying evolution-wise, because that sounds like BS. The African grey parrot for example has roughly the same brainpower as a 4-to-6 year old child. (Or a fully-grown Aborigines)
>There are some shaky theories about drugs out there that I mostly discount because they're peddled by smelly hippies with agendas, but consciousness seemed to 'arrive' or trigger rather than develop naturally.
No, it develops over the course of a person's life. If you've been around small children, you'd understand that they live in a very surreal world similar to being in a dream because they don't have a fully developed brain. Animals aren't much different, but don't have the communication skills needed to make it obvious.
>I know I'm not going to change that and I'm not going to pretend to
Actually, you don't know that. Your entire world could change because of one major experience and you'd realize how foolish you were to be certain it wouldn't.
Just accept it. The Christians went through all of this before. If you think about it, the current culture adopted by the west is just straight up Satanic. That's why it's going to die off, and no new age religion you try to start up will allow it to survive.
The fact that you are shitting on Christianity, the best religion there is, already shows you lack the ability to weigh ideologies enough to found your own religion.
Thanks, but I'm not entirely sure what this is meant to accomplish aside from trying to convert me.
Brainpower is defined as... ?
Having the ability to quickly process information does not make one conscious. Consciousness seems to require at least a somewhat advanced prefrontal cortex which I guarantee the fucking African grey parrot does not have. If brainpower = consciousness, then whales are way more conscious than humans because they can circumnavigate the globe based on dead reckoning alone, but it turns out whales don't have complex written languages, mathematical abstraction, and art and philosophy like humans do. Imagine that.
Dunno if you're still here OP, Terrance McKenna is your guy. Go listen and read his shit
Terence McKenna Meme Movie on the youtube channel We Plants are Happy Plants is a decent start but is books are amazing
Perhaps trying to educate you because you sound like a retard when you say you want to create your own religion. Fuck it, it's your loss then.
>Actually, you don't know that. Your entire world could change because of one major experience and you'd realize how foolish you were to be certain it wouldn't.
Not likely.
>Just accept it. The Christians went through all of this before. If you think about it, the current culture adopted by the west is just straight up Satanic. That's why it's going to die off, and no new age religion you try to start up will allow it to survive.
The current culture is a self-hating one mixed with self-indulgence. The christian answer is to simply try to force everyone to go backwards on everything that's been seen as progress in the advancement of civilization rather than forwards or get wiped out by the muslims. It won't work. Something better than Islam needs to take it's place and it has to do so in a way that looks like progress.
>The fact that you are shitting on Christianity, the best religion there is
I admit it is effective, but it's also wrong.
just be an agnostic theist. Really not that hard
Hurr durr.. I am GOD and must prove my own false premise.
>Brainpower is defined as... ?
Total number of neurons and synapses in the brain, also weighted against the brain-to-body mass ratio.
>Consciousness seems to require at least a somewhat advanced prefrontal cortex
No, it just requires enough brainpower to be roughly human. It's an arbitrary definition.
>If brainpower = consciousness, then whales are way more conscious than humans because they can circumnavigate the globe based on dead reckoning alone, but it turns out whales don't have complex written languages, mathematical abstraction, and art and philosophy like humans do. Imagine that.
They have very large neurons (the same reason squirrels are dumber than most birds of the same size) and a large percentage of their brain is fat and veins. Not to mention their brain-to-bodymass ratio is terrible.
>just be an agnostic theist. Really not that hard
That just sounds like quitting.
You put the sage in the name field, you dingus.
>No, it develops over the course of a person's life.
consciousness?
nooo....it improves, but it's there at birth.
And I don't think any other creature on earth has it..
>just be an agnostic theist. Really not that hard
And agnostics tend to just be fence-sitting little bitches afraid to form a strong opinon.
You'd be surprised. The more I've learned, the more I come to christianity for guidance. I just think the bible and the modern conception of christianity is veiled devil worship.
I tend to believe the Catholic Church is the antichrist.
But the ideas are profoundly on-point. It's just deeply misunderstood. Like all the christians that think salvation is all about "accepting jesus christ as your savior". Because, if that's all it takes, I'm mega christian.
I agree with your other points. It's incredibly important to study other religions to challenge your preconceptions.
I just wish people wouldn't bring up "satan" any time I talked about my conception of god. It's sad. Like they can't even see how their own beliefs are turning them away from God. We are the ones creating evil. We are satan, gifted with Judgement. The problem is, judgement that is not with god is false judgement, aka evil.
Adam and eve were sinning by covering themselves. For they were judging that their naked bodies were shameful, even though god had made them perfect. THAT'S what real sin is. False judgement. Are you sure you understand my understanding of god so well that you can judge whether I'm listening to satan?
Do you have any actual proof of that, or is that just something you believe?
What do you consider to be progress?
Orthodoxy will accept anyone my good friend.
>Do you have any actual proof of that, or is that just something you believe?
It's not a personal thing, dude. I'm sorry if i'm sounding flippant, it's just one of the biggest mysteries known to man. I'm suprised you haven't heard of it. There are numerous books on it, some that make philosophical theories, some that theorise from biological and evolutionary perspectives. I always enjoyed the more spiritual aspects of the mystery, but then i'm one of those "magical thinkers" that the current atheistic trends seem to denounce as stupid, so what do I know?
The vast majority of religious books are deliberately written in a way that's open to interpretation. It's a clever little way of trying to get people who disbelieve or have wavering belief to just keep reading into it until they find the interpretation that makes them a believer. Any story can be interpreted to mean nearly anything if you just keep reading it enough times.
This is obviously progress in his eyes.
I don't understand people who are so blind that can't see the correlation between just when the west became secular we also went straight to shit.
Yep, I'm morally ancap, but pragmatically my politics keep changing. I'm libertarian right now, could change.
The issue with god is that there are many different interpretations of it. I believe God = All of Reality, that it is a word that encompasses 'the whole'. You can't disprove my claim without disagreeing with my definition. And since we have no unified, widely agreed-upon definition of god, there's no "right" answer for it.
But you CAN disprove definitions by pointing out inconsistencies. Most theists can't defend their god. I can defend mine so well that even though I grew up as an atheist, in an atheist family, I'm becoming increasingly theistic. And my conception of god actually really helps me challenge my biases and lies. It's a tool, as much as it is a concept to be worshiped.
The problem isn't with the religion. No more then gun violence is cause by guns, or drug abuse caused by a drug. It's just a means through which people justify their shitty beliefs. Abolishing all religion wouldn't change anything. The problem is that many religions put humans above god, through preachers/etc. But they can all lead you to peace and understanding, if the individual uses it wisely.
Not my idea of progress, so much as the progressives ideas of progress. Trying to force people to remain virgins until marriage, don't drink alcohol, dress modestly, basically being as close to being Amish or Muslim as possible will only make them hate you unless that's all they've known their entire lives.
I agree, actually. But I believe all art has a spark of divinity within it. Because WE have a spark of divinity in us. The abyss gazes also :^)
I don't pretend to be Christian, but currently I realize there is a portion of the population that will always be religious. There is a religious ideological war going on in humanity and the two biggest in this war are Christianity and Islam. You have to be fucking blind to not support Christianity over Islam in this war.
As for some examples of literature on the subject, in case you're interested:
Gerald Edelmann wrote several books on the subject as a matter of neuroscience. Dan Dennett wrote his own book on it with the (typically rather arrogant) title of "consciousness explained". Steven Pinker's "the blank slate" is a good one, too. Or if you want mysticism, there's always Terrance McKenna's work on the subject, but his "stoned ape" theories are a little childish to me.
>The vast majority of religious books are deliberately written in a way that's open to interpretation.
This is just wrong.
Yes, degeneracy is exactly what I was referring to. You can't win by trying to convert degenerates.
>I don't understand people who are so blind that can't see the correlation between just when the west became secular we also went straight to shit.
Correlation does not equal causation. Eastern countries don't have this problem and the Czech seem to be doing pretty well.
>I believe God = All of Reality, that it is a word that encompasses 'the whole'. You can't disprove my claim without disagreeing with my definition.
This is a big issue with me. People love changing definitions so they can mean anything nearly anything they want, and will do so to keep from admitting that they're wrong.
>I just think the bible and the modern conception of christianity is veiled devil worship.
surprised it took you so long considering it's literally a cult based around consistent human sacrifice.
Meaningless tripe.
Some people simply need something to believe in. I'm siding with Christians until Islam is dead, then I will go back to attacking the Christians. I'll keep attacking them now, but not as severely.
Yeah I obviously want a non-religious world too, but Islam must die, then Judaism, then the rest.
Those things are only considered progressive because they were once looked down upon by the Church. They were looked down upon for good reason. You can't create a healthy religion that fits the modern concept of progress, which is essentially just Satanism.
Societal "progress" will eventually result in the end of the society. The only thing that keeps it alive even now is importing healthy people from healthy societies, before ultimately corrupting them as well.
No, it's true. 99% of all religious books are just stories. Stories can be reinterpreted in countless ways. David and Goliath can be interpreted to be about using unconventional solutions to solve problems. I once even wrote a college paper reinterpreting Frankenstein as being entirely about the value of proper planning.
Why not try for all 3 at once?
start here desu. Thank me later.
They aren't "just stories" to the believe who believe in them.
There's literally no other way to interpret ""I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me." than literally.
But I get that it's hard to see that when you've been educated in a post-modernism environment where the text has been completely annihilated of content, and the words on the page are simply what you make of them.
And replace it with what? If you can't even give reverence to what allowed you to advance to this point, you'll pretty much be in the dark as to how society can advance in the future. It's not like it can't be done, but rejection of the allegories responsible is just not a good start.
The morals to the stories ARE usually what you make of them. What is the point of reading the bible in a literal way? You are meant to glean meaning from what's written in it.
>Those things are only considered progressive because they were once looked down upon by the Church. They were looked down upon for good reason.
But those reasons aren't flawless. Opposing sex before marriage made sense because there was no good contraceptives, and trying to ensure every time a couple does have sex, instead of sodomy, that ensured they'd have large families, helping spread Christianity. But good contraceptives exist now. A lot of things exist now that didn't exist before, so religion should change to accommodate that, with future-proofing.
Exactly so that's all they have to know their entire lives, because these same people will become straight up barbarians and animals right when they have had a small taste of the other side.
openbible.info
How has democracy and bringing the majority of the population to have their own opinions brought to the world. People are fundamentally evil and should be treated as such.
>Yes, degeneracy is exactly what I was referring to. You can't win by trying to convert degenerates.
Ok then wipe them off if they refuse to repent, the bible never condones that.
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>Correlation does not equal causation. Eastern countries don't have this problem and the Czech seem to be doing pretty well.
Eastern Europe is also the most religious Europe, and even so I wouldn't say they are doing exactly well. Politically, they are kind of on the right track, but they too have fallen victim to degeneracy. 25-50% Of all pregnancies are aborted in czech slovakia. The two countries in this map that do not have concerning rates are Poland and Portugal, both reputably and statistically very Catholic countries.
Yeah and the moral of the story is to believe in Jesus Christ or you'll go to hell.
It's not like it can be interpreted to mean anything else, which is why people who believe in it actively try to proselytize because they want to save people from hell.
>Information Proves God
Into the trash it goes.
>And replace it with what?
A new one, obviously.
>If you can't even give reverence to what allowed you to advance to this point, you'll pretty much be in the dark as to how society can advance in the future.
Technology is the only thing that can really advance our civilization.
>It's not like it can't be done, but rejection of the allegories responsible is just not a good start.
Allegories can be misinterpreted, either deliberately or accidentally. Stories are good learning tools, but there are others that can do a better job.
western civilization has had terrible times even when it was religious. the era immediately after the fall of the Roman empire comes to mind