What's wrong with Communism?

It's just workers owning their labor. Why does Sup Forums side with the Bourgeois?

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en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_calculation_problem
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Local_knowledge_problem
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When they, the communists say they wish to seize the means of production, they aren't talking about tools or factorys, they are talking of people, a proletarian doesn't own his labor, it is seized by the party and what ever governing department is tasked with putting it to work. Tldr they seek to enslave you and pay you nothing, you'll be lucky to get bread rations.

>post picture of some of the most brutal human rights violating dictators of all time
>ask what is wrong with communism

Your boss already controls you, might as well share the fruits of the labor

>From each according to his ability
>To each according to their need

We squeeze out all we can out of you
Give you just enough not to die

Commies should be shot

Um no sweetie, that's what capitalism does

My current "boss" has no say of what I do outside of work, why would I want to share the fruits of my labor with people who don't want to work and hate my guts? You Marxists are nothing but liars and con artists of the worst sort, seeking to enrich yourselves at the expense of hard working people. I don't like rich fags but they are far cry better than those who "care".

You already own your labor and you sell it for a wage. The man paying you the wage is banking on a return from the product of your labor. If you were self employed you could own both.

>workers owning their labor
that's still capitalism senpai
society owns their labor in communism

Why do you want to see your countrymen starve for some Bourgeois faggot? Your boss owns you for the majority of your life, you are not free.

>that's capitalism
Employers own your labor in capitalism, the people do not

My two main reasons for my hatred of communism is that it's an inherently violent ideology, where it's own fucking creator advocates a class war, and the countless historical examples of it failing miserably and ending in millions of deaths.

And as a bonus, people will always wanna make more and amount to more as a person than they already do. You can't just stick a person in a factory, giving them the literal bare minimum they need to get by, and never allow them to move up the (nonexistent) pay ladder without expecting them to get a bit disgruntled. So basically you're leaning on the hope that every single person in the country/world (depending on how large a scale communism is taking place on) will magically be content to a life of mundanity and insignificance.

No wonder suicide rates in Russia are so high.

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Social darwinism is human nature.
Deal with it

That's why I believe in stateless communism, the motive to work in a communist society is to help your fellow citizens, something far more fulfilling than the eternal quest for more shekels

to be fair to them, in communism there is no government so It would not be a party just mob rule

It doesn't work as Hayek expanded Mises' argument in his works about the economic calculation/information problem.

You just need to read their works. Communism/socialism is inherently flawed and always will degenerate into authoritarianism (and therefore there will never be real communism) and is a system that will only produce famine as there's no real price system to coordinate the allocation of resources in a society.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_calculation_problem

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Local_knowledge_problem

FUCK OFF COMMIE, BETTER DEAD THAN RED

I have a boss in the "capitalist' system, I will also have a boss in the Marxist Leninist system assuming I am not gulagged or shot for being dissident, my situation doesn't change for the better, I am only acting in my self interest. I like being able to go out and buy a loaf of bread when it suits me, and not waiting for rations, that's assuming it isn't gone by the time I get in line with a bunch of greedy niggers. My country men are only 60% of the population right now, and a 1/3 of those are morons who vote to enslave themselves.

no capitalism ask's you how much you want to give for x in exchange for y, if that results in ur death thats what you chose

both contemporary business arrangements, and co-ops, where workers own the means of production, are capitalism

communism is the abolition of private property. workers would not own their labor. it would belong to the collective and thus be alienated from them. Marxism only results in the heterogenesis of ends

You don't need a price system to allocate resources, people come together and allocate them based on needs

Whats wrong?

>we'll never know
"True" (((communism))) has never been atempted

You didn't even bother to read the argument right?

I've heard them before, they're fallacious

>the motive to work in a communist society is to help your fellow citizens

But even then you're banking on the hope that everybody is good-willed and willing to help their fellow man; And while I wish that were true and if it were I'd go as far as to say that communism would probably be a more valid ideology, it simply isn't. Some people are just greedy cunts, and that fact only becomes exasperated when there's no sort of law that anybody is really obligated to follow, so greedy cunts have full power to go out and be greedy cunts.

And what would be the fallacy?

A moral paradigm shift would occur once the state is abolished, greediness isn't a natural state in human tribes, communism is our true nature

It killed 60000000+ people unlike Hitler

It makes an assumption about human nature that isn't true, human tribes are collectivist inherently, communism is natural

>Click here

fuckin antifa rich millenial bourgeoisie

Seriously, all you do is stare at your phone, can you wiki a history book. Oh, thats right you can do it better.

The slavs and the chinks are too fucking stupid, we can do it better.

kys please

Most workers aren't smart enough to own their labour and must be organized. The organizer (company owner and management) deserves more money for his organizing than you for labour because it yields more results. One day i'll stop labouring and start organizing thus I expect to be earn more, until that time I work for a small business with a boss who took a chance hiring me (previously unemployed neet) and he treats me well in terms of wages. I will always prefer that to state slavery (((communism))).

A complete lack of understanding of human nature and in the end everyone that does communism has an elite class anyways.

why would you lie in the OP?
you clearly understand workers would indeed not actually own the product of their labor

I'm short on rent this month, can you spot me $200?

Hard times, you earn more

Because Sup Forums is overwhelmingly middle class, you dipshit. Fuck, most of the american dipshits who fall for Marxist shit at University are middle class to upper class morons who want to shed that label.

Worker's own their own labor in capitalism. The central committee owns their labor in Communism.

Everybody owns the products of their labor, they just happen to share it

What the actual fuck?

The argument is about prices. If you have only actor in the economy (the state/the community/etc) their prices would not obey to rational laws as there are no incentives to savings, etc. The same can be observed in monopolies in a small scale.

yea, via gun point, with the majority going to the top.

you're smart enough to use a computer
either read a history book
or cut your wrists

Why should the workers receive the use of a factory, the land it's on, and the work of the founder, all for free?

That's not very fair.

It's already so for pretty much any company that the workers receive several times more in salaries than the owner receives. Compare wage expenses with profit margins - wage expenses are usually 2-5+ times higher than profit margins.

And you can already make your own commie group, as a partnership or stock company where you donate a share to each new employee. But you don't want to do that - you don't want a commune for yourself which you have founded and built - you want to force the entire world into a commune. That's sociopathic and I hope you get killed for it.

I'm against the state, their would be no coercion

If for those who are educated lawyers and work 14 hours a day and get taxed more for their hard work does the lawyer own their labour?

I sorta like Proudhon.
Everything else is "meh"
Oh and Bordiga and Gramsci, I guess.

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well for starters it was developed by kikes to benefit kikes at the cost of everyone but kikes. So thats kind of a problem there

That's not how it works.
If you treat everyone as a brother, the meaning of brotherhood becomes nothing because it inherently derives it's meaning from exclusion
If you share everything you make it is in no way "yours"

fuck off with your sophistic bullshit

No it's not, liar. It's FORCING the means of production to be worker owned. It requires force because it's a retarded system.

no coercion, no communism, that simple

have a nice glass of bleach , it will make you understand the situation

The incentive is what the society needs, not everything needs a price tag

But how would such a shift take place? It's seriously difficult to change such a large amount of people's attitudes on something like personal gain vs moral fulfillment. You'd need to pull off some Orwellian-tier propaganda to have so big an effect. And even then, after so many years of capitalism some people might just ignore it.

People want to help each other, it doesn't require force

FUCK OFF COMMIE, BETTER DEAD THAN RED

Once the state is gone and people are free to help one another

>whats wrong with being a slave for the kikes
really activates my almonds

Observed gets.

Commies need to be removed
>so to speak

>falling for the jews want communism meme
wew lad

Small scale competing family based tribal groups is our nature. Yes it involves some elements of "communalism" in the sense that each tribe looks after its own but large scale state centred communism doesn't even begin to replecate this natural state. It's an artifice, bullshit and has gotten more
people killed -liquidated for ideological reasons- than any other system of government. People who support communism should be treated like people who advocate for mass murder, their seed should be wiped from the earth.

Then maybe our population has gotten too large, removing undesirables would help

FUCK OFF COMMIE, BETTER DEAD THAN RED

>What's wrong with history's most murderous death cult?
Gee, I dunno OP.

lol. have you read on marginal utility even?

Do you know why money exists? It is exactly to signal to society what society needs.

Okay, let's start with basics: so you're into your little anarchist/marxist paradise. People produce stuff, so they need to trade stuff between them, because some people will produce a little bit more of say tobacco and others will produce corn. They're more efficient each doing their own stuff, and you'd agree it's a little more smart that the person who produces tobacco keep producing tobacco and the person who produces corn keeps producing corn right? So they eventually will need to trade, and that will set a price, say 3 units of corn per tobacco. Eventually as you add more people to this system you start noticing a pattern: it's hard to find others to trade stuff with because not everyone wants corn or tobacco or whatever they're producing. So you agree on a certain exchange mean that everyone agrees to use in order to have a fair signal of prices across the economy. Hello, there's money and there's price tags to stuff.

Even in a socialized economy you'd agree people need to trade right? Otherwise they'll starve to death because no one is autossuficcient.

It doesn't need to be even paper money or gold coins. Tobacco was used as money by amerindian societies if i'm not mistaken.

No we don't need to trade, we wouldn't produce a surplus because production would be based on need

>That's why I believe in stateless communism
Do believe in faeries too comrade cumguzzler?

>Not realising it was jews who created communism
wew lad

Statist communism isn't real comunism

>Comerade Cumguzzler
>Tovarisch Cumguzzler

top kek

Can we assign the next antifa to be spotted one of these?

>Even in a socialized economy you'd agree people need to trade right? Otherwise they'll starve to death because no one is autossuficcient.

Here's the reality bitch: they need to trade even if they only produce what is necessary because not everyone can produce everything. It has nothing to do with surplus.

Once they start trading you start having prices.

Communism is the only possible future for humanity, is societal harmony against self-annihilation that capitalism is inducing.

It wouldn't be trade it would be charity, no prices needed

this

Marxists have a history of killing middle class and academics. Liberalism and Identity Politics and anathema to Marxism.

Middle class leftists are really retarded. They will be the first to go to the gulag. Oh well, they deserve it.

Okay, whatever. You're dumb.

I didn't realize communism gave me the ability to see the future. But then why did your comrades fail so miserably on such a massive scale almost 30 years ago?

>Be billionaire bank tycoon.
>Buy up risky investments like irresponsible people's mortgages
>Risky investements fail
>OhNoes.jpg
>Sarcasm.png
>MFW firm gets bailed out with public funds
>Too big to fail
>Socialism is bad, but only for poor people.
>No consequences for irresponsible investments
>No consequences for crashing economy
>No consequences for putting millions out of work
>MOAR.tif

It's not a free market. The ultra rich and the ultra rich firms use their profits to rig the game in their favor.

Not a communist.
Not looking for a revolution.
Just looking for a fair game.

bc pol is class-cucked and doesnt want to take liberate people they think are lesser then them (there fellow proletariat)

I think memes like this are a psyop.

Everything here is a work of fiction.

Why don't you faggot commies make out?

They believed in a state

>It's just workers owning their labor
That's the problem
>lets abolish property
>except for when it benefits us, then it belongs to us by """"Rights"""""

Communism removes desirables in favour of shit tier people. Fuck look at the people our welfare gibs produce now, actual communism is even worse as it actively liquidates the productive and creative individuals. Fuck communism it's never the answer.

Because communism only applies to people who are not in the communist party. Everyone in the party just becomes the new Bourgeois, lies about how wonderful things are, and things essentially remain the same.

So, no, I am not giving the wealth from one group to another group of people, just to be fucked over under the guise of equality.

I have no problem with inequality, as long as there is still opportunity. And that includes the opportunity to fail.

Progress is a meme.

You really are a good consumer.

What is it like being an utter retard believing in pie in the sky horseshit?

not an argument

when you want to control the means but the Dictator controls you.

FUCK OFF COMMIE, BETTER DEAD THAN RED

>arguing with retards
Gave up on arguing with you cultists years ago. Have some fellow commies made good instead.

There is nothing wrong with that. Capitalism even allows for it. They are called Entrepreneurs and even Venture Capitalists and for some reason pinkos hate them.

>tfw when someone assumes you think it wasnt real socialism

Human governments, if communism was done by machines that have no egoism it would be perfect.

Forget pic.

Isn't funny how the workers end up getting fucked over in every communist revolution while a very tiny and violent minority watch over them with a gun saying "we liberated you, now start planting corn, comrade!"

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Read "Human Action" by Mises. That'll sort it out for you.

most people already were 'planting corn' you just feel bad bc we made the rich start doing it too

That's the plan