Is taxation theft?

Is taxation theft?

No

Why of course.

Not if you have representation

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Technically it's theft AND assault...

>Implying you have representation

Representation is a lie

Hows that all white ethnostate going?

>Muh representation.

Yes.

Great way to ruin my night. Realizing there are people who DON'T think taxation is theft. Shoot me please.

No because you get something out of it. It's a service.

By giving a section of your annually recieved money to the Government, what you get in exchange is:

-Constant 24/7 protection from Military and Police
-Roadworks, Roadlights, etc.
-A power grid to work with
-Clean water supply
-To a certain degree, Rights.

>ok everyone chip in to buy the pizza
>fuck you im not paying for your damned pizza im buying my own

Lol, taking my money by force and "giving me" something is still fucking theft.

How do I achieve representation?
>live on East side in the outmost outskirts of town
>get property taxed to fund roads and schools and shit that me or my kids won't ever use.

Direct taxation of labor is, yes

>assault
Not yet, goy.

To some extent it is theft. The government takes your money and spends on shit I certainly don't want them to (social security). They also spend it on some things i do (like defense and roads). I just don't know a viable alternative solution that also maintains our nation as the best in the world.

What's with the dolt that thinks rights stem from taxation???

Actually, Social Security is paid for by the individual workers taxes, you are not tapped for a cent to pay for someone elses "benefits". (there's a laughable word)

Yes.

I'm a complete and utter failure by anyone's standards. I'm lazy and unmotivated. I'm not cut out for this life.

I work 2 minimum wage jobs to get by. Yet, somehow, for some reason, I have to pay additional taxes during taxtime. I get nothing back. I pay extra already, and have to pay more, meanwhile spics get paid to live.

Petition the government to address you grievances by either paying for shit you will use or lowering your taxes.

If this fails try to elect different representatives by participating actively in the political process.

If this fails declare independence and prepare for war.

All property is theft -Proudhon

You can refuse a service. You can't refuse taxes. This, by itself, just refute your argument but I think it's important to point to you that income taxes are not used for those topics you listed because they are, in most countries that I know of, derived from vehicle and property taxes.

And you pay for the energy and water separately, you don't get discounts because of your income tax. Also, the very definition of right mean it's free.

Actually that's not true, it's still means tested.

Coercive theft

It works by taking money out of my paycheck and putting it into a "pot" as it will, and then that money is given to seniors right? I don't want to fund that at all.

>goy, I will take x % of your shekels... but it's ok because you can vote for Mr. Goldstein or Mr. Cohen

Yes, and for the same reasons that rent and wage labour are theft.

Am I talking fucking Swahili, there is no "pot" SSI is ALLOCATED BASED ON QUARTERS WORKED.

Don't debate what you don't know

If you don't have direct democracy your vote doesn't matter, in a republic you just get to vote on which puppet to kill you. And in the rare times when they give citizens the chance to vote directly on a law the judges will strike it down if the government doesn't like it.

I put it in quotes because i don't want to overcomplicate the matter. The overall point is my money is going to someone that's not me.

Lol, though I will concede that the Dems pillaged the fund and it is in fact now taken from wherever they want...

Direct democracy is stupid.

depends on whether the child consents

Hey OP, i made this road. What do?

AnCap or dirtnap, simple.

OP should have made it clear that he meant involuntary taxation (i.e. non-consensual)

Please give example of another kind of taxation sir.

It's the price you pay for living in a society of clean water, electrcity, roads, health care, welfare and infrastructure

I like the way you think

Yet you use an AnCap symbol, strange...

pay taxes and you get to live in the country as a citizen and interact with society as such.
as a citizen, you're entitled to government services such as electricity, water, protection through police / state armed forces, etc.
don't pay taxes and you don't deserve citizenship and thus these things

why is this so hard for you people to understand?

>none of these services would exist if it wasn't for my big daddy all-knowing government
I shouldve checked you flag before I wrote this

>he uses the pizza money to pay the interest to the bank on a loan he took out for a earlier pizza, then asks the bank for another loan to pay for the current pizza.

That's the thing
You don't even have the option to refuse technically,
it's like not paying property taxes but still living on the property.

You just can't refuse paying taxes for basically EXISTING in that land, that nation.

It's not theft when you really technically don't have the option to not want it to happen.

No, but the current system is designed to hide exactly how much your wallet is being raped by the government (at least in Canada). 15% sales tax + 25% income tax + a couple grand a year land tax... The list goes on. Add to this the fact that our government subsidized utilities still charge us for everything they can get away with, and you'll understand why Canada is secretly a shit hole... Everyone just thinks they're making a lot of money when the truth is we'd be third world if it wasn't so easy to import goods from and to America. Shit, all it would take is the burgers choosing to buy wood from south america instead of us and you'd put thousands out of work...

This already happened with paper products seeing as they don't need "good" trees to make paper anymore (plus the fact that no noe uses paper anymore, obviously). A as soon as they figure out a way to not need good wood, hundreds of towns will die.

Yup, fooled us all with the meme ball.

Ancap is a great idea until someone clever enough can exploit all the loopholes and turn it into a gubmint

Life is like that bro...

Being a slave and defending your slavery is more stupid.

Indirect is better. It balances the interests of the city people with the interests of suburban and rural retards.

you have to pay taxes to live in the country of the government.
You have to pay taxes to be a citizen so you can subscribe to government provided resources
it's fine if you don't want to pay taxes but you won't be allowed to live in that country if you do so

In it's current form yes.

>Whats the most effective way to immunize someone against corruption?
>Give them everything they could ever want, and make sure they know who gave it to them.
Dictators aren't bad by default, but they can be if they aren't reigned in by an outside force. The church used to play an important role in controlling the kings of old, but now there is nothing left to stand against a governments authority...

Except we all pay separate bills for electricity and water. If you're going to post don't be wrong about the first two things if you don't want to be entirely disregarded.

It's more like extortion which is a mixture of theft with the threat of violence.

Unarguably

Even if I accept your premises, the real world consequences of them are after the fact, not before. If you don't pay taxes, you still live in the country, but now you're being forcefully held against your will in a prison. You don't get deported if you don't pay taxes.

If you don't pay taxes you don't lose your citizenship anywhere in the world, what the fuck are you smoking? If the government was a real and consistent entity that made you sign contract on some age, and if there was zones in the planet where you could live tax free if you wanted, maybe you would be right. But it doesn't exist in this planet.

Hey I'll give you a cup of tea after I take all of your paycheck by force. Technically you get a service for it, so it's not theft right.

By living in the country, using the roads, enjoying the protection of the police, sending your kids to school, etc., you are implicitly agreeing to pay tax.

For some it is consensual. Depends on the person. I'm an AnCap so for me it's non-consensual but for a lot of whites they will do anything big daddy government tells them so for a majority of them it is consensual.

This discussion doesn't matter and lolbertarians and anarcho-caps are still bluepilled useful goys for the Juden to manipulate.

What reality are you living in where the government gives a fuck about either group's interests?

Yes but I am ok with it because I like roads and indoor plumbing. However us lowly working peons are shouldering a lot of the burden while our employers avoid their taxes and hoard billions in offshore accounts. They will be able to helicopter themselves out when shit starts burning down. And they want most of us dead when its all done.

Why do people always use this 'hold a gun to your head and demand your money' metaphor. That's not how it works. If you don't wanna pay tax, don't use public services. Then you'd have a legitimate reason to complain about being taxed.

What's that, you use public services but don't want to pay for them? Well fuck you.

I'm just saying I prefer our Constitutional Republic. Dictators CAN be a force of good. Cincinatus, Washington during the war, even Hitler cared about his people. Stalin, Nero, Caligula or the Grecian Tyrants of old, well they are a different story. They were selfish and evil and to think an entire nation was at the whim of evil.

what is social contract
you pay taxes as a citizen of the country.
The government actively protects and maintains these resources so they can't just let anyone in.
you pay taxes and swear loyalty to support the government, the government rewards you by letting you have access to these resources.
The government isn't just a company trying to make money by selling access to these resources.

So people that criticize zog are "bluepilled useful goys for the Juden to manipulate" but people that defend the government are what?

They do pretend to care. It's how they get the votes and money. It's the peoples job to remind them to do their job. We have forgotten that but it's not too late yet.

I can't charge you for your stay if I kidnap you, regardless of how much it costed to maintain you well feed. Implicit contracts are fine, but the government is not one of them.

You can leave. Nobody is stopping you.
The reason why you get imprisoned is you've stopped paying taxes and are still living in the country. If you moved somewhere else, say, another country, the government wouldn't have power to imprison you there.

You don't have citizenship anywhere in the world by default. It's assumed at birth that you're a citizen since it's assumed you'll pay taxes. If you violate this then you shouldn't get the rights of citizenship.

> If you don't wanna pay tax, don't use public services.
That's not how it works, the government doesn't give you a choice

Actually, its public urination

you're still living in the country and enjoying the byproducts of the government such as the peace and security they created in this geological location through their armed forces or the society the created.

Voting on people and hoping they do your will is better in your eyes than voting on policies yourself? What's wrong with you?

Does it matter? You're telling me you'd be living off the grid without any protection from the state or any access to public services if you didn't have to pay tax?

Everyone's using public services, it doesn't matter if you don't have a choice because no one would choose not to anyway.

Because you are fucking lieing to yourselves like all other lolberts and ancaps, no man is an island. There are sheep and shephards, and if you don't marshal your sheep, others will. The jews defeated all western shepards and are marshalling all the sheep against the rest of us. Individualism will not work, you will be gobbled up by a collective eventually, the question is -Which one will it be?

>-Constant 24/7 protection from Military and Police
>implying
>-Roadworks, Roadlights, etc.
>implying
>-A power grid to work with
30% of my income is easily enough to go off the grid.
>-Clean water supply
>implying
>-To a certain degree, Rights.
Rights are taken, not given.

Does your government not just let in any Muzzie? Do these Muzzies that are now citizens in America swear oaths of loyalty to the government and do they honor these oaths? Why are these Muzzies rewarded access to American resources? In AnCapistan Muzzies would be physically removed.

I already explained how that if it's a direct democracy that minority groups (which farmers are a minority group for example) would get trampled on for the self interests of a majority. Such as it would benefit industrialists to take land from farmers. If the Industrialists promised jobs and such (farmers already have all the help they need) to people and they voted on it, then the farmers would lose land due to the direct democratic vote. Indirect democracy mitagates that heavily.

>Rights are taken, not given.
The notion of natural rights disgusts me. It is absolutely ridiculous, simply absurd.

Yes it is.
all these retards that think the government builds roads or build buildings no you fucking massive retards they don't.
They hire someone to build them instead because the government is useless.

Yes. No. Beats me. Ask the libtards. Yes, and they should be unless they can act like law abiding citizens like everyone else.
Same thing with people who don't pay taxes.
Pay taxes, uphold the government, support the country and you get to enjoy everything that the country can provide you. If you can't then get out.

No AnCap believes there will not be leaders, just no rulers. The ancient Israelites were a Kritarchy, which is technically anarchy and their leaders were judges. The ancient Irish used a system of Tuaths which was technically anarchy and their leaders were called kings but what made it anarchical is that you could choose your king. AnCaps want leaders we just don't want a system where retards vote to determine our leaders.

Yes, and I support it.

not if you consent

You just contradicted yourself.

First
>it's fine if you don't want to pay taxes but you won't be allowed to live in that country if you do so
Then
>he reason why you get imprisoned is you've stopped paying taxes and are still living in the country.

The problem is, following your logic, not paying taxes should get you a deportation, not a prison sentence, since a prison sentence still gets you living in the same country that you allegedly broke the contract.

We're talking about born on the land people. Once you move countries, it's completely different, since in your home country you had no choice. By changing countries you agree to their rules. It's like leaving your home to leave on a mafia-protected land. Before moving you're already agreeing to pay the protection money. It's not the case with the government.

problem with leaders who are elected without elections is that it's extremely for them to become dictators without any checks on their power.
If they're benevolent, that's a great and efficient system but from what we see in history, most of the times that's not the case.

>Which one will it be?
Better to live a day as a lion than 100 years as a sheep. But I'm not sure western sheep have a hundred years.

>No because you get something out of it. It's a service.
I take your bike and hand you a pair of old boots.
You have been serviced. You're welcome.

property is robbery

yes clearly

to me this is the retard test. anyone who says no, especially when its somebody who like politics, is automatically a fucking retard

I understand that mindset but there is nowhere for an AnCap to go. I don't want to change your country I want to build my own where there exists no civilization. It's not something I can just up and do in 5 minutes. I pay taxes and follow the laws while I'm here, but I'm not going to say the American system is intelligent. Any system that allows libtards to be given power isn't a good system.

A group of individuals with their own goals and dreams are stronger than a collective 10x their size.

That's exactly what i'm saying man

not an argument

Alright, what would you have the government do then?
If someone refuses to pay taxes but still benefits from the government systems, how do you force them to pay up?
Well, they would start by just directly taking your stuff by force but if they still refuse to submit, what do you do then?
Ideally, they should have these people tried and executed but that makes for bad public relations so they just imprison them instead.
I would love to hear your idea on how governments should treat people who don't pay taxes.

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