Why shouldn't I be a leftist?

Why shouldn't I be a leftist?

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Nazis are literally socialists aren't they? "National socialists"

So to you NatSocs - YOU ARE SOCIALISTS. Clearly you see some value in left wing economics then? Since it's literally what you believe in.

The economy of Nazi Germany was like Venezuela today, the difference that Germans have higher IQ and they were stealing from Jews and other countries, so it worked better.

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>Why shouldn't I be a leftist?
because only non-lefties give you the freedom to freely choose what you want to do and how to think.

You're not giving me reasons why we shouldn't fight the rich for better pay, for better working conditions, and to break up their monopolies and cartels which fuck us all over.

NatSocs actually desire these things don't they? Well so do other socialists. Why aren't we fighting for the rich, for the betterment of the working people, Sup Forums?

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because you destroy everything

because you're murderous, weak ideologues who don't give a good god damn about coherence or consistency

Obviously you did absolutely no research on this

moral relativist, authoritarian '''people''' who should be gassed

Authoritarianism on both the left AND the right can lead to oppressive silencing of dissent.

I'm not a Stalinist. But why shouldn't we at least seek left-wing ideals in today's world, because there's so much income inequality, which people of Sup Forums rightly recognise?

Sup Forums blames this on "globalisation" - but really, it is just corporations siphoning off more wealth for themselves, while the rest of us suffer.

Internationalism has been a feature of business for the last few centuries, and I don't think you can stop that. Think about the Slave Trade! Buying slaves from Africa! That's international business! Think about HSBC (one of the UK's largest banks), founded in Hong Kong by a colonial Brit in 1865.

We should fight corporations, we should fight their greed, and we should stand up for US, THE WORKING PEOPLE. If you don't work then you are worthless and you deserve what you get, to be honest (which is nothing).

WORKERS OF THE WORLD, UNITE!

Actually, you should. You're just in time for the beginning of fully automated turbo luxury gommunism.

I'm not saying we should have communism. But I *am* saying that we should fight corporate greed, and we should fight for a better deal for US, THE WORKING PEOPLE.

Why the fuck WOULDN'T we fight corporate greed so that we can build a better life for the 99% of us?

ALL LEFTISTS DESERVE TO BE TORTURED

Because murdering people to have more money is called being a criminal.

Wow that's the biggest lack of argument I've ever seen.

How embarrassing.

>fight the rich for better pay, for better working conditions, and to break up their monopolies
If you think a western factory worker or tradesmen isn't being paid enough or is in poor working conditions you're a fool. Go take a trip to the People's Republic of China, then think about how you may sound like a disconnected cunt. Sure the average western blue collar guy may be somewhat of a fiscal idiot but he isn't scraping by with enough money for a bag of rice and a piece of fish to go home to his heavily censored media in an apartment he shares with 4 other people.

Also, what constitutes a working person? How do we count unskilled or skilled labor? If we put both on the same level then why should a more intensive skill set like a welder or carpenter be paid the same as a burger flipper or retail worker?

>cartels
That would imply your parasitic friends lay off the junk and get their shit together.

Where exactly did I advocate murder? And when did Marx advocate murder? (Although I don't advocate all of his ideas)

All I said was "LEFTIST", I didn't say "COMMUNIST", and I didn't say "STALINIST" (a particularly brutal, authoritarian, oppressive, deadly distortion of communism)

I don't necessarily believe in communism, but I DO think we should fight corporate greed for the benefit of the rest of us.

And it's ironic because THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT THE NAZIS BELIEVED - they believed capitalism has failed (and yes they'd say it was due to the Jews, but let's just call them "financiers"), and therefore state intervention was needed in order to secure a fair economic deal for everybody.

AND THIS IS WHAT MANY ON Sup Forums BELIEVE TOO. Supporting Trump is supporting government intervention to stop the "special interests" from economically screwing the rest of us! The workers of the Rust Belt voted for Trump so that he would stand up against their capitalist employers who wanted to destroy their jobs! THIS IS THE DEFINITION OF LEFTIST ECONOMICS!

When will you guys just fess up and admit that you are economic leftists?

get on my lvl fgt

>But I *am* saying that we should fight corporate greed, and we should fight for a better deal for US, THE WORKING PEOPLE.

Shouldn't argue based on this false supposition. Absolutely no one disagrees with you on this.

>implying mental illness is a choice

No. Pic related.

NatSoc rose in response to extreme leftism aka Judeo-Communism. National Socialism embraces and works along side human nature, acknowledging everyone is different but using their individual talents for the greater good of the countrymen.

Judeo-Communism defies human nature treating anyone and everyone as an equal even though that is purely impossible. Theirs no incentive to work hard and creates welfare states that degenerate as we have see in EVERY country it has been tried.

You shouldn't go full retard in any direction. Compromise around what's most practical. Aside from that, here's my 2 cents on commies. I actually like communism, but must admit it's contrary to human nature and pure communism in practice can't work. Human nature needs capitalism to some degree as an outlet for it's greed and predatory impulses. However, the occasional Stalin type leader isn't all bad. He dragged Russia out of the medieval mud and into the Industrial Age in a span of 5 years where it would've taken others 50. But under Soviet communism currency just changes forms from wealth to power and is consolidated in the hands of the few and abused same as under capitalism.

because people are lazy, cheating assholes.

Communism is a perfect system for a different species - one willing to do their fair share of work for fair share of goods, instead of trying to get away with doing as little as possible and grab as much as possible.

You don't argue with commie, you just kill them.

> Higher IQ people tend to be center or center-right in their political views.
Source: Hive Mind: How Your Nation’s IQ Matters So Much More Than Your Own by Garrett Jones.

*tips edge*

>If you think a western factory worker or tradesmen isn't being paid enough or is in poor working conditions you're a fool. Go take a trip to the People's Republic of China...
I agree with everything you said here, but that doesn't mean that there isn't corporate greed in the West - e.g:

1) Facebook / Amazon / Google / Starbucks deliberately avoiding taxes.

2) Zero hours contracts - I don't know if you have them in America, but they are a big talking point here in Britain, basically where you work at a place but don't have any guaranteed hours, so they can tell you "sorry, you're not working this week" whenever they like.

3) Monopolies / cartels - think of the energy industry, or cable companies, or indeed the media, which Sup Forums usually admits is dominated by a few massive conglomerates.

>Also, what constitutes a working person?
Anybody who works. Workers, employees, sole traders, even small business owners. Anybody who isn't in the super wealthy elite.

>How do we count unskilled or skilled labor? If we put both on the same level then why should a more intensive skill set like a welder or carpenter be paid the same as a burger flipper or retail worker?
I'm not saying they should. I never said they should. All I said is that we should fight the rich in our society for a better deal for the rest of us - BECAUSE, in today's world, wealth inequality is rising and rising. Wealth is concentrating in the hands of a privileged few. The cost of living is rising, while wages are stagnating - here in the UK, millennials are the first generation in a very long time that will be POORER than their parents. We need to fight this.

>That would imply your parasitic friends lay off the junk and get their shit together.
Who are my friends? Mate, I am just saying we should use some left-wing economic ideas right now - in fact, Sup Forums already does by embracing the Nazis, whose economic policy was definitely LEFT-WING.

Go babble about "class struggle" in hell pig.

Not an argument.

I'm guessing you're not a very socially integrated person.

False. Corporatists (rich people) would ABSOLUTELY disagree. They would say "But capitalists have worked for everything they have! They are playing by the rules fairly - and you could do exactly the same!"

Of course this ignores the fact that companies like Google and Facebook and Amazon play very UNFAIRLY - they use their big corporate might to hire lots of lawyers and accountants who can find clever tax loopholes, sending their wealth all around the world, which means they pay LOWER tax rates than us working people! (I mean yes, corporate tax is usually lower than income tax anyway, but it's even worse with the offshoring and tax avoidance that these companies do).

Remember, all I said in the OP was "leftist" - I didn't say "communist". I am not advocating communism. I am just advocating that we stand up against corporate greed.

I would define "leftist" economics as "that which believes intervention by the state is needed in the economy, in order to redistribute wealth and/or make the economy fairer for everybody".

I would define "rightist" (if that's a word) economics as "that which believes intervention by the state into the economy is not needed, nor desirable, and the market should be allowed to operate with the lowest possible government intervention, since this is the most desirable circumstance".

Not an argument.

>le ebic porky meme

Kill yourself

>NatSoc rose in response to extreme leftism aka Judeo-Communism.
Haha, no. It arose from the exact OPPOSITE - free-reign capitalism, which allowed the Jews to lend money at high interest rates, thus benefitting themselves at the expense of others. THAT'S what national socialism opposed.

I like that picture though. Yes abolishing all private property would be pretty stupid.

Yeah I do think full retard in either direction is stupid. But I was just thinking how Sup Forums's general ideas - or at least those of Trump, and also Le Pen, whom Sup Forums seems to embrace - are that the government needs to intervene in the economy. That corporations are fucking us all over. And I believe that's true, and I want to fight for a better redistribution of wealth in this way, but let's admit it, those are leftist economic ideas.

>But under Soviet communism currency just changes forms from wealth to power and is consolidated in the hands of the few and abused same as under capitalism.
Very very true, of course.

I'm not advocating communism. I'm advocating that the working people of the Western world rise up to fight against the wealthy elite who are accumulating more and more wealth (see pic related).

>he's too stupid to be able to defend his position with rational argument
Lol.

Look at pic related - people on the right are objecting to this right now, but in doing so, they're actually endorsing leftist economic ideas.

>they're too stupid to defend their positions with arguments

It's okay, we can't all be clever.

> leftists
> clever

Maybe you should be. But consider carefully what it is that you actually want.

Do you want to avoid exploitation by international oligarchs who want to brutalize you for cheap labor?

Do you want to overthrow the tyranny of rich bankers and corrupt capitalists who rule over you and your people?

Good! So do I. But here are some more questions.
Do you want to abolish all property rights?
Do you want to abolish the family?
Do you want to abolish every concept of your race and nation?
Do you want to abolish private ownership entirely?

Or do you just want a more fair world, where the working man enjoys more of the benefits of his labor, and where your culture, your people, and your race are preserved by a functional, happy, peaceful society?

If the former, then yes, become a Leftist. Become a Marxist, or a Stalinist, or a Leninist. But if you want the latter, if you want to have BOTH a fairer world for workers and an end to international exploitation, AND your people, your race and your culture preserved, the right to someday own your own business, a comfy corner store or a fabricating shop or a shoe store, then you, my friend, are a National Socialist. You do not desire hard socialism, but you also do not desire market fundamentalism. Both are failed ideologies and we can see that clearly in history and today.

Aim for the golden mean, the best of both worlds. A synthesis of community, empathy, and nationalism. Aim for a system that respects individual property rights while also recognizing that those rights are afforded to you by your kinsmen, your countrymen, the blood of your blood, and so, you owe it to your fellow man to help them when they are down.

National Socialism is the only system which perfectly blends these ideas. It is the only system which has ever successfully stoop up to the big banks, the big international oligarchs. Join us. You have nothing to lose but your chains, and nothing to save but your people.

Not an argument.

youtube.com/watch?v=V7HPbjsYYGg

>Do you want to avoid exploitation by international oligarchs who want to brutalize you for cheap labor?
Yes
>Do you want to overthrow the tyranny of rich bankers and corrupt capitalists who rule over you and your people?
Yes
>Do you want to abolish all property rights?
No
>Do you want to abolish the family?
No
>Do you want to abolish every concept of your race and nation?
No
>Do you want to abolish private ownership entirely?
No

>then you, my friend, are a National Socialist
No I'm not, because I don't think we should persecute all Jews for the actions of some of them, just like I don't think we should persecute all whites for the actions of some of them.

>You do not desire hard socialism, but you also do not desire market fundamentalism
You're right, I reject both, but I reject NatSoc too.

>your countrymen
My countrymen are of many different races, but Sup Forums throws a hissy fit at this idea.

>your people
You mean dumbfuck white people who want to fuck me over? Hm, no thanks.

Economic situation unites people more than race does.

>Economic situation unites people more than race does.
This is objectively false, and you know for a fact that it is false. The great failure of Marxism in fact is that its assumptions about class consciousness are clearly, transparently, and empirically incorrect. Nation and Race are FAR better indicators of loyalty than economic status. Otherwise, why would poor Americans shoot poor Iraqis for their country? This has been true since the beginning of time.

But, that is fine. You need not accept my olive branch. You can continue attempting whatever creationist-tier nonsense you've been trying. Good luck convincing those Communists to let you keep private property and your culture, though, and enjoy slaving beneath the lash of your Jewish overlords.

I fucking love Peterson, I watch him loads and I think he's absolutely amazing.

I'm not saying equity, or Marxism, my friend. I am purely saying that normal people should rise up and fight against corporate greed.

The thing that made me think this was the fact that all these "New Right" parties actually have pretty left-wing economic ideas - Le Pen, Trump, etc. They believe in government intervention, in order to penalise big corporations, and redistribute wealth.

>This is objectively false
Haha no it isn't. There's no way you could """prove""" that one is more important than the other.

I do agree with some of this race realism stuff that I see - I do think that ethnic groups obviously naturally congregate together. Wanting to entirely separate the races, though, is autistic - not to mention impossible; just as impossible as "equality" and Marxism.

>le joooooos xD
Lol :D

It is clearly false. The class revolution didn't happen, Nigel, and it is never going to happen. You yourself are perfectly aware that people regularly vote "against their economic interests" because to them their culture and race is more important.

If this weren't true, why isn't every country Socialist? If Class consciousness is real, where is it? Show it to me. Show it to me on a map or on a graph.

And no, it isn't impossible. There's nothing impossible about it, it would require legislation and that would be it. If you agree that people want it naturally, why would they resist it when it comes? And as I have already said, ethnic identity is CLEARLY more powerful than class identity. The evidence for that is manifest everywhere.

You're making up reasons to argue with me, but I don't think you want to. I think you agree with me, but are frightened of the implications. If I am right, then National Socialism is the truth. It is the answer. That's a big plunge, Nigel, and I understand your hesitation, but look at the facts. Class consciousness simply isn't real. The only time these revolutions ever occur is when the people are literally starving to death and embroiled in war, when the only lifeline they can see is the Marxist noose. Better to risk hanging than be assured drowning.

Why let it go that far? Why not join the side that assures you a future? Why continue to spurn us, Nigel? What's the problem? Are you denying that the Jew has an inordinate role in this multicultural disaster? Don't worry, the holocaust didn't happen. We would simply deport those Jews who do not desire to assimilate to the host culture. They have their own National Socialist state already, it is called Israel.

youtube.com/watch?v=y3qkf3bajd4

>Why shouldn't I be a leftist?
That's like asking an NFL team why it would be better to lose the Superbowl.

>le joos
But surely le meany richz are real

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We can fight against coporations when they are the biggest threats to the common working people. Right now its the globalists who want to destroy the cultures of these very same working people so that they no longer have anything to identify with so they can unite against them.

The corporations and the governments are in bed together. Reduce the power of the government and you reduce the power of corporations.

Go ahead and be a faggot if you want. Now fuck off.

>workers of the world unite
>fat fuck who didn't work a day in his life
Why are commieboos so fucking retarded?

> I'm advocating that the working people of the Western world rise up to fight against the wealthy elite who are accumulating more and more wealth

Why do you think we go on about the jews so much? They are the disproportionately the wealthy elite. Why do you think the libertarians hate the government? Its a tool for the jews and the wealthy elite? Why do muslims hate america? Its a tool for Israeli foreign policy.

> Blame the rich jews in the american government

Fight for worker right doesn't means that you are or should be a left winger. Right wing ideologies like national socialism and fascism did good things for the rights of the working class and made states without corporate corruption. Marxist-Leninist states are like the globalist-neoliberal states, the first one said to the people that they are gonna give you equality while the second ones say that the will bring democracy and freedom, but i reality this is just demagogue bullshit, and in both cases you are not more than a slave of an ideal, a useful idiot who is gonna die for the interest of people who doesn't care about you, the workers or any other people.

>Keyboard

Yo not are a NEET...right user?

Change "the jews" to "an ethnicity"

>The class revolution didn't happen
So you don't know what happened in Europe in 1848?
You don't know what happened in Russia in 1917?
You don't know what happened in China in 1945?

>If this weren't true, why isn't every country Socialist?
I've told you a billion times I'm not necessarily advocating socialism.

I bet the stats for far-rightists are incredibly similar, and like I keep saying, POINT OUT WHERE THE FUCK I HAVE ADVOCATED "FAR-LEFT" IDEAS

Sup Forums IS ALREADY ECONOMICALLY LEFTIST

Sup Forums SAYS WE NEED GOVERNMENT INTERVENTION TO STOP THE SPECIAL INTERESTS, AND TO STOP ECONOMIC GLOBALISATION FROM SCREWING THE COMMON MAN

Sup Forums IS ECONOMICALLY LEFTIST BUT IS TOO STUPID TO RECOGNISE IT

>being that dumb
Yes, NatSoc were Leftists, but pre-war Leftists. The kind that loves his people and don't want immigration.
No harm in that.

Can you have real arguments besides hatred? Like economics argument?

>Haha, no. It arose from the exact OPPOSITE - free-reign capitalism, which allowed the Jews to lend money at high interest rates, thus benefitting themselves at the expense of others. THAT'S what national socialism opposed.


It quite literally arose from both what you said and Judeo-Communism. He burnt down the ReichStagg and blamed it on the communists. Not to mention the Spartacists we're jewish communists as well.

You had jewish communists in the east genociding russian christians and tossing them into gulags and you also had parasitic jews from within that bought up everything while they were economically fucked.

because you won't move to a socialist state, go away

Show us that you really mean it and move

>Right now its the globalists who want to destroy the cultures of these very same working people so that they no longer have anything to identify with so they can unite against them.
Who is destroying your culture? You can have whatever culture you like.

By all means oppose immigration if you want (and if you think that's destroying your culture). I don't object to that.

>The corporations and the governments are in bed together. Reduce the power of the government and you reduce the power of corporations.
Well, because the current governments are full of neolibs and neocons, who believe in laissez faire economics.

Sup Forums supports Le Pen and Trump and they believe in interventionist leftist economics. Trump has outlined massive spending plans, like publicly-funded infrastructure. That's pretty leftist.

>has no argument
Hahahaha.

fuck off you all you dumb Sup Forumslacks have no knowledge about marxist theory
Idealism is pure cancer.
Racial/Sexual Identity is pure cancer on this world.

If capitalism so good, then why ghetto and homeless people are common?
Capitalism is only good to distribute wealth extreme uneven. It's not a magic pill.

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1- ask the east europeans waht they think about communism.
2- ask a Venezuelan what they think about socialism
3 - take your conclusions that marx ideas can work on the paper, but it does not holds when its tried to be implanted in real life.

do what you want idc just don't tell me what to do

Fucking Marxist piglet.

>Why shouldn't I be a leftist?
>POINT OUT WHERE THE FUCK I HAVE ADVOCATED "FAR-LEFT" IDEAS

>Sup Forums IS ALREADY ECONOMICALLY LEFTIST
No. Sup Forums have fascists, NatSocs, reactionaries and libertarians. How a right-wing libertarian can be economically leftist?

>dumb Sup Forumslacks have no knowledge about marxist theory

Go be retard somewhere else. Why is it that people who hate Marxism seem to understand it more than people who preach it?

Astounding correlation.

>"Why do people who have no knowledge about marxism act like they know it better than people who actually have read marx?
It's called the Dunnig-Kruger effect: Stupid people do not have the required skills to realize how stupid they are.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning–Kruger_effect
This is true for about 90% of you braindead Sup Forumslacks

Where can I find this test?

politicalcompass.org/test/