Is taxation good?

Is taxation theft or does the money actually go to something good?

You like driving on roads?

Absolutely necessary; as long as it is within reason and proportionate.

Governments need funding, and it's sort of like each country is like living in a "club." Some clubs are better than others and cost more to be apart of them. It incentivizes economic growth and helps your country become more prosperous to conduct fiscal and/or monetary policy (I won't pick sides)

I imagine roads are inexpensive compared to the other things used from tax money.

But how do we know the money is being used properly?

How does the money going to "something good" not make it theft?

Because if there were no taxes, how do you maintain roads?

If I notice that a homeless man doesn't have any shoes, and then steal all the money from his cup, and use it to buy him some shoes, am I actually a good person, or a thief? I bet he was more concerned with getting food than shoes and will call you a theif.

You maintain them by stealing money from citizens paychecks obviously, but it's still theft. Doesn't matter what you spend the money on if you take it without consent.

The homeless man doesn't have to pay much in taxes though because he is so poor.

It may be theft but it goes to good things right?

>may be

No, it is theft, no maybe about it. You take something without consent, you're a theif, plain and simple.

>but it goes to good things right?
Does it though? My government taxes the shit out of me and they sure spend a fuck ton of money on some pretty questionably "good" things. None of this happens with my consent, but my tax dollars are used to bomb children and prosecute people for smoking plants anyway.

Do we have to start measuring how much of the money gets used for good versus bad before we can make a decision here or can we just accept that it's wrong to take things from people without asking?

Someone steals $10k from you. Then the next day you found out the thief bought you a car and left in front of your house.

Does it mean that it was not theft just because you were still partly benefited?

The thing about this analogy is that the government doesn't buy cars for people. Taxes go to helping it's population and defending it's population.

Could you tell me what questionable things the government spends our money on?

It's called an analogy. My central question is, if you 'benefit' from being stolen, does it mean that it was not theft, or that such theft is justified?

How about when the EPA "cleaned up" an old mine by dumping contaminated water into a tributary of the Colorado river and then tried to force all the towns to accept federal funding for water treatment facilities?

Can you tell me the good things? A pretty significant portion of our budget is spent on secret things. How can anyone make any decisions about the rightness or wrongness of those?


Nevermind the fact that again, no one consents to their wages being taken and it is very obviously theft. But hey, it's okay to steal if you do something I like with it.

It benefits society

So does eugenics.

No wonder Trump has ripped the EPA a new one. Nothing is perfect either but what can we do without taxes? How do we keep our borders safe and our cities clean?

Stealing is the answer. I get it. Something has to be done so that's the thing that's done.

Doesn't make it not stealing. Doesn't mean stealing is always bad either right?

I definitely have a problem with my money being taken without my consent to be used for things like new bombs or sending people to jail for victimless crimes. But I also like driving on roads.

If there were some sort of system that actually allowed citizens to decide what their tax dollars were spent on, you could call that a form of consent. Sounds really complicated and inefficient though.

Does it?

>government regulates the whole economy; you could say "it's for our best interest", but how is it possible that government knows what's best for a country of 320 million people (in your case)?
>governments love war; not so much here in hueland because we barely have any money, but the US apparently loves financing terrorist groups to defeat other terrorist groups which were hired to defeat other terrorist groups which were hired to defeat other terrorist groups(...)
>governments promote all sort of social discord; whether it's by giving 'minority' groups free stuff and positive discrimination, or making people trust their government more than their fellow countrymen, which lower solidarity amongst the population
>governments steal through taxes (aka this whole thread)
And then they give you some ""free"" stuff (that you paid for) that comes at the cost of financing their wrongdoings. It's the most evil scheme ever thought of.

And that's just utilitarianism; that's just the cause and the effects of government, in this post I haven't even touched the subject of morality. If your wife cheated on you by fucking her boss (something immoral), but that means she gets some extra money on her paycheck (supposed benefit), does it mean she did good?

It actually sounds like taxation should be on the county or state level. All taxes can be funneled toward something the state thinks is best.

If all the money goes into one pool you will inevitably end up with people's money being spent on things they disagree with. Maybe each agency that needs federal funding can rely on donations from citizens that actually care about those things.

>no one cares about roads
They'll start caring when after the first year all the roads go to shit, right?

It's a good idea on paper. I wonder how it would work irl though.

I like certain taxes like tariffs and VAT on luxury goods but dislike other taxes like income tax.

Also cars have ruined our cities so I have a saying, "tax cars not people!"

Taxation is necessary to have a running and functional government to provide certain services to the people. Services like a police force, fire department, military, infrastructure, etc. Those are all good things we need that a government should provide. Taxes is only bad when the government poorly manages it or spends it retardedly or gives it away in money transfer schemes and the gov has to tax at higher rates. But niggers keep voting for that shit so it the people's fault when it's allowed to get retardedly high.

Almost definitely no one would donate to anything and the entire infrastructure would crumble. Taxation is a neat issue. Activates my fucking almonds. Seems like it's wrong, but it's right.

There's too much of a free rider problem when it comes to people caring about roads and donating.
>"Why would I specifically donate toward that when other people will? I mean they're bound to care, right?"
At that point there's no reason to not tax for new roads because there's no reason to just let our infrastructure suffer. That'd be pointless.

I agree it's ridiculous, but it solves the moral issue.

If having your money taken from you at gunpoint isn't theft then I don't know what is

Maybe when the roads go to shit a group of Free Americans™ can bad together and collect compulsory payments toward road maintenance
They could call it a road levy, or duty, or tariff

The possibilities are limitless, really

>can band together and collect compulsory payments toward road maintenance

A good description of government

Wait a minute, are you trying to trick me? This sounds oddly like tax collection.

uhh... so taxation?

It's good for white nations (>90%).

Some are aight like gas tax to pay for roads. Military spending is out of fucking control though. We spend so much on our military and haven't won a war since Vietnam. The ones that were "victories" did not improve our countries standing in the least.

well considering ~75% of Americans posting on this board learned to read and write in a public school, I'd say we still can't say for sure, lol

Jesus Christ really? Do parents really not care about their child that much?

Fuck right off with the "Discretionary" chart. This is the real budget break down.

Discretionary = what liberals consider optional.

Whites transferring wealth to blacks, Hispanics, Arab Refugees, and nonwhite countries accounts for more than 50% of all US spending even when you subtract the whites receiving government benefits and account for who we owe debt interest to.

I for one, am sick of being s slave for brown people.

holy shit!
I've been working in the wrong field. Clearly military is a world all its own.

Wait wait wait. What's this? For bakas please. They both seem like the Federal Budget but the numbers are all different.

If you have to tax people to pay for something it means they don't want it, at least not at that price.

And since it's the will of the populace the democratic politician claims to be doing, a problem arises and you realize that democracy is a coercive scam that destroys freedom.

Unless you believe in an abstraction called "the economy" that must be cared for like the class hermit crab and that tax cuts sometimes don't "work," in which case nice job swallowing that big ol' bluepill.