In class learning socialized medicine is the only way for America. Help give arguments to shit on this

In class learning socialized medicine is the only way for America. Help give arguments to shit on this

Other urls found in this thread:

dailywire.com/news/15801/obama-lied-people-died-mortality-rate-increases-john-nolte
youtube.com/watch?v=z9EGGGr5efY
nytimes.com/2017/03/18/opinion/sunday/make-america-singapore.html?_r=0
twitter.com/SFWRedditGifs

Tell him socialized has killed more people in America than it has saved. dailywire.com/news/15801/obama-lied-people-died-mortality-rate-increases-john-nolte

Tell your teacher to destroy her knee and go to a Canadian hospital.

Then she'll see the beauty of Socialized medicine when she's put on a waiting list for 435 days before they can do knee surgery.

While you're waiting over a year to receive a surgery that's vital to your ability to work, Mohammed gets to pass the lines and immediately see a surgeon. Even if he isn't even a citizen.

I'm pretty right leaning on most things but healthcare I suppose I'm a bit of a lefty, seems to work well here in Aus and with 2 quite sick parents I can say honestly without subsidized meds my life would have been a disaster.

You can pay for private surgery in Cananananada and skip the queue if you have cash

She said we wait just ad long as places like Britain lol

BTFO HOW WILL BURGERS RECOVER.

Single payer means bye bye university provided PPO and hello waiting in line for 6 months for a clinical visit with the beaners on state insurance. More people would get public health but our world class private health industry would evaporate. Which is a shame because we're probably about 15 years from curing cancer.

Why are you listening to a woman?

Why do we need socialized medicine if the U.S. is leading the world in medical technology and successful procedures without it?

Tell her that you being required to subsidize the bad decisions of others is repugnant to you.

Take a look at the VA hospitals then tell me how socialized medicine is working out.

Guys I'm getting cancer help

I gave you infromation, OP. It's right here Use it.

move

Remind her that the hammer and sickle are symbols of oppression and instruments of death.

Stop smoking cigarettes and drinking your life away.

With healthcare you can pick up to 2 out 3
>Affortability
>Universality
>Quality

In countries in Europe they have both universality and quality but it is incredibly expensive and is a huge portion of their taxes. They can only pay for it because we are their military and basically pay them to protect them. Once Trump cuts US's NATO and UN budgets to nearly 0 Europe is fucked.

The only way to debate effectively is to debunk the opponents arguments. Which should be easy considering its a socialist program.

Socialism is inherently evil on every front.

Ty

Apparentmy she's saying price control would make it work

Forced subsidization of junk science practitioners is only practiced by fearful jackasses. It has no place in a free society. It's expensive because of profit barriers. With today's technology you should be able to deal with a sore throats for 5 dollars, not 250.

Upvote

...

Life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. That's it and that's it for a reason. You want insurance? Earn it. Can't? You aren't helping America, so fuck off.

thank you kek

> americans and americans circlejerking about how much they love (((free market))) healthcare
oke

Idk what flag you are without Google so fuck off

>They can only pay for it because we are their military and basically pay them to protect them.
yes thanks for stabilising the middle east by carpet bombing it that worked a charm sure had nothing to do with sandniggers flowing into every western country en masse

the US military is there for US interests, trump really is a grade A spindoctor, most of US military involvement in the last 30 years was focused on the ME and it was mostly to protect kikerael and get arab oil thats fucking it

thats clearly a canadian flag m8

Two-tier is god-tier. Reduces waits for the poor while those smart enough to get rich get the fast quality care that they deserve for working so hard/smart.

What the fuck is "socialized healthcare"

Can you for once define the words you are using so we don't get a spooky as fuck thread

The hospitals will freely ask you for 250.

It's what you have cuz you ain't hot spics and spades

Update: she just said fuck the refugees. Wtf is she s Nazi

>wants socialized healthcare
>doesn't want rapefugees
What did she mean by this?

you shouldnt go to a doc because of a sore throat anyways t b h. so long as it's 'just' a sore throat and nothing overly painful / persistent.

it's funny how people will go to a doctor for minor ailments because they feel bad but then they get ball cancer and only visit when it's tennis ball sized stage four metastasising supercancer because they're scared of the diagnosis

what who did i'm confus

how can I tell if I have ball cancer ;_;

My professor

But honestly man our government is zogged to shit. We hate it too

idk but i used to work at an old folks home where we had a guy who always wore lose jogging pants because he had it. scrotum the size of a small handbag. so if you got anything like that down there prolly get that checked

he also had dementia btw and used to constantly pull out his catheder. he was half endearing half fucking terrifying

You can pay to go to America

nah I just have big ass fordyce spots on the ball sack

We have the same thing in Lithuania. The medicine's quality is absolute fucking thrash. If you want to get any help you visit the doctor privately(Even though you're already getting taxed for (((FREE MEDICAL CARE))))

In Canada all 3 are falling apart.
>lack of doctors and surgeons and supplies
>overall quality is down as a result, also some people cant get treated
>second most expensive in the world after America

Death panels by the state that choose who lives and who dies is totally fine desu

good for you and fuck you i just googled that those close ups are quite something

>You can pay for private surgery in Cananananada and skip the queue if you have cash
You're paying a disgustingly high cost.

Any socialist country is a pretty good refutation.
Venezuela is kinda topical.
Also Commies are traitors.

FREE MARKET FUNDAMENTALISM FAILS IN HEALTH CARE - FREE MARKETS REQUIRE INFORMED PARTICIPANTS AND FREEDOM TO SHOP AROUND - BOTH ARE ABSENT FOR THE SICK - HEALTH CARE IS A UTILITY NOT A COMMODITY - WAKE UP CONSERVATARDS

I cut my finger open wiping a wine class at home last year. It bled alot. I knew from previous accidents i would need to go to get it stitched. I put a bn ch of gaize on. Went to the nearest GP and had it fixed within half an hour of it happening. I didnt pay a cent. How much would 5 stitches cost you in the USA? Nothing really holding up surgery lines just basic stupid shit that sends 98% of people to the doctors in the first place? How can you argue against that.

>

IT'S WHAT GOVERNMENT EMPLOYEES LIKE MILITARY AND CONGRESS HAVE

MILITARY IS PURE SOCIALISM, YOU GET PAID SHELTER FOOD MEDICAL AND EDUCATION

I broke my femur and I went through 5 years of therapy, at least 6 MRIs+X-Rays, countless of hours in doctor's office and I paid total of 90 euros during it kek.

Factually incorrect.

My gran broke her hip about a month ago, and she had surgery the next morning.

Cute strawman, though.

whatever happens everyone HAS to admit that american healthcare is completely broken and needs to be fundamentally reworked

oy vey that would be socialism wouldn't want that

>How can you argue against that.
because muh leaders of the free world public education is gommonism *epin picture of trump riding a dinosaur into batte* USA USA 2nd amendment is sacred because its the le constitution but fuck niggers and spics equality is for SJWs look at this bell curve i drew

it's all ideological, never forget these people you're arguing with are made to recite a pledge of allegiance to the state every day in grade school.

socdem style healthcare is simply unfathomable to them

it will be simply unfathomable to finland too in a moment's notice, we have fucked up age demography and high youth unemployment.

>tfw you've spent time in a Soviet hospital

Ask your teacher why she thinks it would be better to pay bribes than to pay fees.

Ask your teacher how she likes having a drunken doctor perform surgery "because it's easter and so he had to celebrate."

Ask her if she likes the idea of having to buy the syringes and disinfectants and medicine privately before you go to the hospital.

Jesus, the medical system in the Soviet and even Post-Soviet world is so bad that it is unfathomable to anyone who hasn't lived there. If I told the stories no-one would believe them.

Most american post ever. Venezuela failed due to fact you can't nationalize something as essential as oil industries without (((US))) intervention and has nothing to do with even having "socialist" healthcare at all.

It's because healthcare in the USA isn't "free" market. It's a heavily regulated and broken system meant either to protect health care incumbents(mostly hospitals) or to be subject to the ideological whims of state and federal legislatures.
A true free market would mean that all costs must be declared up front, and all hospitals must accept any insurance.

>not knowing how to suture a wound

Might as well just shoot yourself when the happening happens.

Cute anecdote though, also nice of you to completely ignore the fact that senior citizens get better benefits in general

we can sustain socialized medicine if we curtail immigration numbers and keep people productive through something resembling national socialism.

Otherwise, socialized healthcare for the sake of making yourself feel better is unsustainable. Market economy drives competition in healthcare, and business models have no obligation to help people. To say otherwise is to begin with a premise that every citizen is valuable and has equal right to healthcare which is an obviously flawed and pretentious one.

lastly medicaid is a social program for the less fortunate. So what more is needed to expand socialized medicine?

You could also make comparisons of outcomes of procedures in our system versus a socialized one. I would bet that ours are better given people fly across the world for procedures in America.

what's your reaction when you see this? >You could also make comparisons of outcomes of procedures in our system versus a socialized one. I would bet that ours are better given people fly across the world for procedures in America.

and the same happens here and in almost any first world country, I highly doubt america has the best healthcare outcomes of any developed nation

the object of socialized anything is control. eventually peoples genetics will be clocked at birth and the pedophile communist elite will en masse clone babies to rape sacrifice and eat.

modern medicine is trash. if you want to know what health is check this guy out: youtube.com/watch?v=z9EGGGr5efY

Sounds like they mastered the free market an-cap health care with freedom lovin individual doctors. No legislation or regulations or government enforcing them. Kind of like black food markets in China.

That its oversimplified, firstly.

US has a population much higher than many of those countries. Averages bring our aggregate quality rating down but the top clinicians are here: for instance a Mayo in Rochester or a John Hopkin's neurosurgeon is the best in the world, though a doc in Iowa may not be which represents the average.

Also expenditures are lower in those countries because they have restrictions on price. Our healthcare payments are more like a barter system - hospitals bill high and insurances cut it down, controlling for price here is always in flux.

OP was looking for arguments, I was positing the possibility that the sheer amount of dollars injected into the competitive healthcare market leads to the highest quality though it isn't accessible by most americans. To make it accessible to most americans is to do what those countries do: make your tax rate approaching 50%.

I don't see our culture accepting that, nor should we. Its a liberal meme to do so and thus pretentious to assume we should all support one another when the fabric of the country is "look out for yourself"

Don't really understand this post

I showed that americans spend more PUBLIC money per capita than we do it britain on healthcare but now for some reason america would only be able to have the same results with a 50% tax?

Guess what, you're already spending enough tax money to have public healthcare but you're being jewed out of it by your government and corporations

that's because you're a retard.

we spend more PUBLIC money because the hospitals set the price and the PUBLIC pays that price.

Other countries control costs because the price is NOT SET BY THE HOSPITAL, but BY THE STATE thus preventing the whole scheme of BARGAINING in THEiR FaVoR.

SO wHeN People talk about SOCIALIZED MEDICINE WHAT THEY'rE Really Talking aBOUT is PRICE CONTROL by STATE CONTROLS

So your system is shit, almost every other developed nation follows a better system, you know it's shit and yet you still defend it

hmm...yes very good

PURE IDEOLOGY

THere4 SOCIAL MEDICINE IS A MEME Because Taxing AND SPENDING MORE does NOT fix the UNDERLYING ISSUE. YOU CUNT.

So two ways to control cost:
Set prices for procedures and slow the industry's growth

Or stop state insurance for poor people

Private insurance. That's what's NOT Included in the analysis. Keeps personal cost lower. If you haven't figured it out, I favor the second option. Stopping state insurance because they don't game the hospitals.

Dude wtf is wrong with America, it's the same with schools which cost like 2 or 3 times as much as they do in most other western countries.

You can't win an argument with these people based solely on efficiency or economics, because they generally think that they have the moral high ground. Even if something is inefficient or otherwise sub-optimal, at least, they will say, it's 'fair' or 'just'.

So, you have to attack the moral foundations of their position.

If your instructor is advocating the position that healthcare is a 'right', then attack the foundations of that position.

Rights reflect the autonomy of the individual, and are not granted by the state or by any other individual -- nor can they be taken away by the state or any other individual. An entitlement may be granted by the state, and may just as easily be taken away.

An individual has no innate right to the services of a medical practitioner, nor any innate right to taxpayer subsidization of those services -- saying otherwise means that an individual has the right to ultimately coerce the medical practitioner or taxpayer into compliance, thereby violating their autonomy.

Therefore, socialized healthcare is a form of entitlement, but healthcare is not a right.

---

If, on the off chance that your instructor is actually arguing an economic position, you should investigate the split between discretionary and mandatory federal spending.

Healthcare, as it already exists, accounts for the lion's share of our federal budget. The oft-cited idea that the military accounts for the greatest proportion of the federal budget is misleading - it's the highest portion of the discretionary budget, but is dwarfed by healthcare spending in the mandatory budget.

We simply cannot afford to socialize this without either raising taxes to a crippling degree or going into absurd levels of debt.

Adopting a model after the fashion of Norway is not an option, either. Look up Norway's 'sovereign wealth fund' and how it relates to Norway's GDP and oil production. A proportionally-sized fund for the US would be around $45 trillion.

Private schools+ private higher ed fucked up US education system so hard.

How did private schools fuck it up, if costs are extremely high for private schools then competing schools can come in and lower the price. Shit like this is usually caused by too much government intervention either because of mismanaged public schools or too much laws. Or, as I believe the case is alot of times in America, the immensely powerful Teachers Unions that America has.

I think the main problem between America and Europe is that we're only 62% white now and our population size is 320 million. Hate to population size plus multiculturalism would never works.

We have socialized medicine in the US. It's called the Veterans Health Administration.
The VA has done a great job of showing America exactly how the government would run single payer healthcare. It's not good.

Dude yeah and Medicare and Medicaid, were already halfway there to socialized healthcare. Then people complain want more government. Lol. And hospitals can't refuse to give someone care even if they can't pay and that falls upon us who actually pay hence why it's so expensive. Also a big reason why Europe can have nice healthcare is cuz they have free military and they buy all their shit from the US for such a cheaper price. They live off our misfortune.

>Need surgery
>Wait list too long
Oh fug, too bad there aren't other countries you could go to and get quality medical care for a cheap price

Here you go OP:

Socialized medicine has the same problems as other forms of socialism.

>It's a centralized command and control system that requires huge administrative costs.
>There's no incentive for patients to seek efficiency. If you're not directly paying, why bother to shop around?
>There's no incentive to doctors / providers to seek efficiency. Want to develop a new and better drug or procedure? It's a big risk with no reward.
>If there's a free market available alongside a socialized medicine market, the best doctors leave for it.

The best idea that I've seen so far is the Singapore model.

>Government pays for "catastrophic" insurance, so you won't go bankrupt from hospital expenses.
>Everything else is as close to "free market" as possible -- paid out-of-pocket or from a personal (HSA-like) account.

nytimes.com/2017/03/18/opinion/sunday/make-america-singapore.html?_r=0

Healthcare spending in total is ~5% of GDP in Singapore. It's about 10% in European countries and %15 in the USA.