"Taxation is theft"

>Taxation is theft
How to argue against this?

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Taxation is the state taking its due for defending you against threats both domestic and foreign.

Tax dollars are the antibodies to social barbarism and anarchy. If you're against taxation, you're categorically in favor of monopoly, rape, murder, and pillage.

>Taxation is the state taking its due for defending you against threats both domestic and foreign.
What if the state is the threat both domestic and foreign? Then what? I mean, let's not pretend the US government isn't the biggest enemy of the American people in the world.

If you don't like it, use your right to form armed militias and overthrow the government.

You can't refute it, the statement is logically sound.

You can argue that it is neccessary, if you like, but you can't deny that it is coercive, i.e. theft unless you create an arbitrary moral distinction between individuals and the state.

If you don't like taxation than don't pay taxes and forfeit all the rights and privileges of a citizen. There you go.

You can't. No one asked to tax me, they just started doing it.

Bootlicker

If it were theft, then politicians could keep it for themselves.

Instead, they are only allowed to spend it on things society wants (except for a modest wage)

Taxation is essentially a massive racket and shit like social security and pensions are a gigantic ponzie scheme. Still better than communism tho.

How naive, politicians give taxpayer money to their friends' businesses and in return once out of office it goes back to them. Case in point Obama's $400000 dollar speaking fees. Scratch my back and I scratch yours.

That's a fact. You can't argue against facts. You'll have to tackle the assumption that theft is always wrong, or attempt to convince the audience that this particular case of theft is judtified and that the alternatives are terrible.

You're an idiot if you try to argue that taxation isn't theft though. Don't fall for that trap. You'll get a D.

What can be said without proof can be dismissed without proof.

Maybe in your country, not in ours.

Jan Peter Balkenende is lucky to get a free drink for giving a speech.
And he lives in an ordinary house, not even detached.

Just because it's theft doesn't automatically make it bad.

A white lie is usually for good whilst lies in general are bad. Tax is just white theft.

Don't argue with idiots. Just cut them off as soon as they display retardation. If our species had done this earlier, we wouldn't be in this mess.

Thinking taxation is theft is independent from accepting taxation as a necessary evil. Most humans are too stupid to think sufficiently long term, thus without taxes they won't fund the necessary components of society.

Taxation is the fee you pay for the government helping maintain and support the society you partake of. If you don't want to pay taxes, you need to leave and not be a part of said society.

Taxation of your money before you even get the chance to touch it or decide what to do with it i.e. direct taxation is theft. There's no way around it.

Cool, 16 million people sure must be hard to manage. Commiefornia alone has twice your population size. Just be happy you get to ride on the coattails of success produced by capitalism. Nobody expects your country to make any significant contributions to the world anyways.

"Yes it is, what are you going to do about it faggot?"

...

>taxation is theft but being in debt for 3/4 of your life and being a slave to corporations is fine
>american logic

In our society, taxes are a necessary evil. They pay for schools, hospitals, roads and public transit, to mention a few services that are dependent on our tax dollars. We grumble whenever we have to pay a tax, but realize that without them our infrastructure, education and health systems would collapse

Generally, those who defend taxes the most are those who pay the least. How about you only get to vote if you're a net contributor to the system. This will create a balance between those who want lower taxes and those who want other people to pay them more welfare.

Oh no, a humorous image macro. Surely my point is now invalid in the face of your superior argument.

In other words, the police and the military.
I'm sure all tax revenue goes into these two budgets only.

>Tax dollars are the antibodies to social barbarism and anarchy.
You're incorrectly framing anarchy as a negative when it clearly is not. Monopoly does not exist in free market capitalism and only flowers with government intervention. You cannot find a historical example of a monopoly under free markets only through government intervention. Rape, murder, and pillaging happen regardless of ideology or form of government or lack of it. Those points aren't relevant.

>implying it's not both for Americans

Social security is a massive scam. The worst thing the regressive left has done is convince people taxes are universally good.

pro-tip, you can't. If anyone attempts to, refer them to pic related.

Good bong post.

>Nobody expects your country to make any significant contributions to the world anyways.

We're in the top 10 of all time contributors to art and science.

We've way more significant that Canada, despite your landmass.

Nah, I just wanted to post that.
sage & run? sage & run.

Anarchy is a temporary state, this goes likewise for anarcho-capitalism. Unless an external force can ensure Ancap society, nothing prevents individuals who accumulated mass amounts of power from establishing their own state. However, you're correct in a way, as a monopoly on force is generally the first attained monopoly and the system ceases to be anarchy when it happens.

You already consented to being taxed.

This was either directly (i.e. being a part of the group that founded a government, which hasn't happened in the West in a long time) or tacitly, by living on the lands of a nation, using government services like roads, hospitals, internet, marketplaces, etc.

Social Security and Medicare are ponzi/pyramid schemes of the highest order. I'd say the worst thing the left has done is convince people government is the solution to the problem at all.

Social contract.

like political philosophy 101 mate.
do lolbertarians read anything outside of Hoppe's memes?

Because you give it away by free will, nobody forces you to live in place where you have to pay taxes.

If you pay taxes, you submit to the state.

It's as simple as that.

Fair enough mate

2406 Political authority has the right and duty to regulate the legitimate exercise of the right to ownership for the sake of the common good.

Catechism of the Catholic Church

>If it were theft, then politicians could keep it for themselves.

Naive underage detected. Is it summer already?
Anybody who worked in a public sector in any given country knows that goverments will always find a way to steal your money and people with power will always accept bribes and give away tax dollars.
I worked for public sector in United Kingdom and my europoor third world country. You would think that elites of these two different states act different.
I was staggered to find out how much public money is being stolen or wasted on supporting power groups and lobbists in both countries. The only differences were methods and dissimilarity of power structures.

>protection racket
>extortion

Still theft.

This bong post is the best in the thread, honestly, but I'd argue that distinctive moralities would not negate the very definitionof it, it would still be a matter of "justified theft".

Its a necessary evil to be honest, like several others have mentioned, it maintains the society you live in.

You do not submit to the state the state submits to you. This is true or should be for the USA. The constitution is a set of rules binding federal state and local governments who in turn each have their own on top. These are rules and laws that the government is to abide by. This government does not give it's citizens rights as all citizens have all these rights from birth given under God. What power the government is allowed to have is given by the people with strict guidelines.

You're welcome to attempt to make your own nation at any time.

It also goes to social security and maintaining the government. Why are anarchyfags even alive? Since you're still in high school you should probably be aware you're consuming government dollars constantly but just attending.

Not if you are a cuck who would pay his taxes without threat of force

t. Locke

This is a good post.

There's no escaping using tax dollars for anything in the USA at the moment. It's gone so far towards socialism that all citizens partake in some way. Dire times.

>social security
Ahahah.
You said it.
Cute.

schools and hospitals for illegals and fat retards
and other services for lazy, degenerate useless fuckups

the only thing taxes should be used for are public infrastructure and protective services which should be common among anyone who values the social contract

>Taxation is theft
>How to argue against this?

COLD STEEL

HOT LEAD

((((defend)))) you. You know private militias are a thing, and if you country is worth actually defending the citizens will get together to defend it. Technically that's how the US was supposed to be as well, and if you love the US you would fight to defend it if nessesary right?
What your army is is a Jewish imperialistic force.

Where does this meme came from, besides your very imagination? Everytime some ancap society is mentioned someone try to argue that someone with a great landmass will try and formulate their own kind of government without any proof or evidence at all, you type always say this kind of shit. Not because someone would do it, but because YOU would do it and you project on everyone else. The minority of people want to rule over. Just look at any, fucking any kind of honest voluntary relation. There's no need to pay for a representative, even though you might.

Argue for one thousand years about how we're not prepared for ancap now, which may or may not be valid, but dont project your megalomaniac ways onto everyone else as a way to justify not even trying.

t. cuck that tried to defend his own nation and got his asshole creampied by NATO

I'd be more specific that the Federal Government should not be part of public infrastructure such as roads. We have state/county/city/private roads for a reason. They now use federal tax dollars to push agendas so if Chicago wants some road money they need to let pajeets shit in the street for example. Your public infrastructure should vary according to the wealth of resources generated by your region. Instead we have wealth redistribution from these areas into the coastal cities. Example Illinois it's all about Chicago or New York about NYC etc.

>If you don't like it, use your right to form armed militias and overthrow the government.
It would have to be a nuclear armed militia. If I could just secure a few nukes, then I'd secede or maybe I'd just glass DC for the hell of it.

Just had to pay $154.89 extra on my 2016 tax return. That brings me to a total of nearly $16000 in taxes for 2016.

I feel raped man.

What r you gonna do about it? Call the police?

I was like 7 at the time NATO bombed Serbia but I would have fought yes. Not an argument though, and you actually being proud of funding Jewish imperialism.

Feel bad for the Canadians. Everything is Toronto or Vancouver. Live anywhere else and you're fucked over. Taxes and representation all fucked.

Ask them what road they travelled in order to get to the location of the arguement.

Taxes are theft to pay the interest upon imaginary digits created by international fractional reserve banking (federal reserve, bank of england) to ensure that the prole non-elites never truly own their own lands of wealth.

The US federal income tax is unconstitutional and goes solely to pay off the interest incurred by the traitorous selling of US financial soveireigny in 1913 to a private international corporation. Most of your tax dollars do not go to build roads, they go off to further enshrine your enslavement.

/thread

True. Governments in the West no longer require the people or private entities for money. Instead the people are tax livestock to pay down interest on the ever increasing borrowing nature of governments. You no longer see currencies or money handled privately. Government sets the interest rate and prints the money. This is why governments can ignore the will of the people since they aren't held to any standards such as gold or something limited like bitcoin. The next move is cashless societies so government can increasingly use the tax livestock more harshly to borrow even more money. They will charge a tax on every single little line item in your daily life if it's not done already.

> and he he

Would it be possible for taxes to not be mandatory so people only pay for the things they approve of? I think that would stop a lot of drama, e.g. religious people wouldn't have to pay for abortions if they don't want to, services would lose money if they're not doing a good job and have motivation to improve rather than just ask for more free shekels, people could directly choose to fund their local issues they care about rather than hoping some bureaucrat notices, interventionist wars would be impossible to fund, ect. Or would a government literally not fit the definition of a government if there wasn't mandatory taxation?

This isn't necessary if you keep taxes for a Federal Government used mostly for Defense Trade and Borders. The rest is handled via sales and property taxes locally. You're city county or state (USA) would be who you petition for your specific needs and ideals for your area. It's broken down into smaller and smaller areas. Cities and unincorporated areas even have HOA's which are another further consolidation of the will of like minded people.

Its a good idea in theory but having someone trustworthy going over every persons taxes and sorting where the money goes would be hard to control and take a long time

Taxes are licence to make profit.

Should've been /thread right here

>morals are arbitrary
eyy I see you picked up the point of view of cultural marxist

That's my point, anything worth mentioning that your country did was all pre-socialism. You've had centuries to get your shit together and this is the best you could come up. It only took Canada a few decades to overtake you economically, technologically, militarily, really in anything you could think of. We even do socialism better than you.

IT's also one of the few reasons we are still left alive (albeit in a severely unhealthy state) due to the cancerous need for GDP/economic "Growth" but it's all a rigged game for the governments anyway, as I'm sur ethey know, as the growth only feeds the interest. There is more money owed in debt in the world than there is money.

This is how you enforce perpetual slavery, and those that are too blind to see it are pitiful.

That would be ideal imho.

I envisioned a system where you literally tick a box where you want your money to go, so you'd probably end up with no one ticking the box for bomb Syria, half the people ticking the box for welfare and everyone ticking the box for fix the potholes already.

im a libertarian but i do think some form of taxing is necessary

Your very image betrays your argument.
The whole point of anarcho-capitalism is that there IS no "handshake", there IS no "sure", the state violates your agency as a human being by not allowing you the choice of opting out

Society is like a drug in the sense that it will solve 99 problems but gives you 100 new ones. Much like addicts, we focus on the 99 solutions it brings and not the new problems. besides, whatever problems we may have, more society will just fix it, right?

To think 100 years ago income taxe didn't even exist in my country and now it seems it is its only reason to exist. More and more taxes every year accompanied by a slew of new edicts and laws. (((progress))), supposedly.

Anybody who says taxation isn't theft is on the same level as a crackhead. Scared shitless of being sober and facing reality.

Muh social contract

don't because it isn't

Also arguing with the retards/trolls who think it is is a waste of time.

Its a necessary evil that needs to be done to prevent greater evil. Libertardians have no right to moralize when they are ok with people starving to death.

Taxation without representation is theft. If you have representation it's a necessary part of living in a civilized nation.

Not claiming our representation is good... it's actually shit which is why this attitude has become so popular. We're not being robbed, we're being ripped off.... subtle but important distinction.

hey. What is wrong with corporate lobbys extracting money from their potential rivals and giving it to their target demographics? It's not like this will veer the economy and society off to becoming a mindless quest to attain their products rather than seeking broader concept of economy.

...

Alleen omdat we in nederland 52% inkomen belasting betalen zodat we de immigranten en de staatswerkers kunnen blijven betalen betekend niet dat je moet gaan lopen kankeren op de VS als zij wel ff normaal nadenken dat die onzin moet ophouden.

Ja belasting is nodig maar niet in de hoeveelheden in nederland zeker niet zodat klere laaiers lekker op hun aars kunnen zitten en van een uitkering de hele dag lopen blowen. Daar betalen de hardwerkende nlers voor

It's a bit like rent. Don't like it? Move out.

>
>Taxation is the fee you pay for the government helping maintain and support the society you partake of. If you don't want to pay taxes, you need to leave and not be a part of said society.

Christ... Fee implies everyone pays. We all know half the population contributes nothing.

>Eating is murder

don't bring this up with a vegan.

hate this too, as a Libertarian even

a better phrase would be "taxation is ultimately obtained through coercion" but that doesn't quite have the same ring to it

if taxation is theft, driving on public roads is extortion

Or you could just try to be happy and not so hung up on this.

When you have nothing how can you contribute?

>Christ... Fee implies everyone pays. We all know half the population contributes nothing.

Fee also implies a voluntary transaction. Taxation is literally extortion by definition.

You're obliged to put society before everything, even yourself. If you refuse, you do not deserve to breathe. That's the truth.

>the only thing taxes should be used for
We all have different ideas what this should be. Corporate welfare is $200 BILLION a year.

I don't want my taxes giving corporate welfare to oil and gas companies that gouge us.
thinkprogress.org/big-oils-banner-year-higher-prices-record-profits-less-oil-d337b2dcf58c

>We all know half the population contributes nothing.
Half the population doesn't earn enough income. Income tax has a floor - a minimum threshold that excludes the basic cost of living (standard deduction).

Even so, those working people who you believe "pay nothing" pay payroll taxes (Social Security Medicare) and gasoline taxes to drive to work and all kinds of other federal taxes.