When does Human life begin?

Does it begin at conception like Republicans say, or does it begin at birth like the Democrats say? There are important consequences for either view.

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I'm not even totally anti-abortion, but of fucking course it begins with conception.

These cunts trying to explain this fact away are really no different as whenever Sup Forums goes
>women
>human

The murder is legal so who gives a shit either way? The only purpose of this discussion is to protect her sensitive feelings. Why don't you just grow some balls and admit you are making the right decision by killing the baby inside you?

It's not an issue of whether it is alive or not.
It is issue of whether its life matters.

And the answer is that it doesn't.

Wasn't this the whore that literally could not remember how many abortions she's had?

Go to Amazon and get some used copies of US researcher Helen Wambach
She mass hypnotized volunteers. Regressed them. When the results were analysed, many subjects (who may not have believed in past lives prior) claimed they had not 'joined' the body until the last minute. They did not want to experience another life. Some said they didn't join the body until after the birth. The periods varied. Some said they joined the body after two weeks, some said several months and some said they hadn't inhabited their body until two years or more after the birth
Raises a lot of questions doesn't it

Legal personhood should begin when consiousness does.

I put it at about 20 weeks.

Or whenever it becomes viable.

If I punch a pregnant woman in the belly, they can only charge you with assault, the fetus isnt human yet

the most it would be destruction of property

Laci Peterson.

pregnant. killed by husband. husband charged with 2 murders

what do you think about this?, if I induce abortion on a woman before 20 weeks, is it murder? or destruction of property?

>Does it begin at conception like Republicans say, or does it begin at birth like the Democrats say?
Define life.

>There are important consequences for either view.
Wrong. The consequences are not applied to when life begins, but when a protectable human life starts. A protectable human life starts (and ends) when the brain starts (and ends) to work.

When does the brain of a human being start to work, i.e. higher brain functions? Around week 14 to 16. When does it end to work? Pretty much established in medicine and law - when higher brain functions end, the so-called "brain death". A reboot of the brain is impossible, so doctors call people "dead" even though the body can continue to work for weeks, months, maybe even years.

If you want to be consistent with other entities that we regard as "human", it's a human from the moment it forms a nervous system, functioning or not.
Generally speaking, the embryo for all animals looks the same in the beginning. As it develops, it becomes more distinguishable as a member of its species.
A fetus at 4 months is obviously human to anyone who looks at it.

thats a legal fuck up then, you cant view something as human in cases, and as not human in other cases

Not in the USA

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unborn_Victims_of_Violence_Act

"Almost all higher animals start their lives from a single cell, the fertilized ovum (zygote)... The time of fertilization represents the starting point in the life history, or ontogeny, of the individual."
[Carlson, Bruce M. Patten's Foundations of Embryology. 6th edition. New York: McGraw-Hill, 1996, p. 3]

heartbeat is sign of life. so before then it is not alive.

why abortion doesnt fall under this?

Good thread I would rather talk about the violent torture and murder of women by mexican cartel members. Should these people be allowed in the USA?

Lets discuss.

Your physical aspects (height and face) are 100 percent determined by your DNA.

Your personality and intelligence are 50-70 percent determined by your DNA.

Your DNA is 100% determined at conception.

Therefore most of who an individual is is fixed at conception.

That's a person in development, not just a "clump of cells."

On the other hand, any given sperm or egg could end up being one of 8 million individuals, even with the same partner.

After conception, there is only one single, individual, unique person that can result from that.

We're a jewish matriarchy.

yes, but only in liberal cities

Becaues it's convenient for women

Are you a retarded leaf using a proxy? This is some of the dumbest shit I've read in my life.

?

and in this case?

google epigenetics

Life begins when the heart develops

If the heart is stopped we write a death certificate and not before. The head could be missing but if the hearts still beating we don't write it.

Turbine hearts being an exception

It isn't about life.

Human life is just functioning cells with human dna. A kidney donor who dies still has their own litteral life still living years later.

It is about when a person begins.

The notion that at conception or fertilization you have a person is preposterous. Founded upon invented notions of when the soul quickens that has no basis in scripture, nor is able to address the conundrum of organ and blood donations without using Jehovah logic.

The notion that abortion on demand at the third trimester for any reason other than life/health of the mother, inevitably of stillbirth, or appropriate "euthanasia" of the child whose logic would also apply to terminate after physical birth, is sociopathic. Absent an actual justifiable homicide it is no longer just "her body" and choice.

You need an actual brain with at least rudimentary brain function to even say this is a grey area of whether or not it is homicide.

No mind, no person.

Heartbeat is irrelevant. It is just a supporting organ. The organ that us actually "you" is your brain.

when the heart starts beating, so around 4 weeks

The only answer you need is answered in these following questions:

>1. Would it have been okay with you if your mother aborted you?

>2. If your mom was "irresponsible" or "not financially stable atm" would you be okay with having been aborted?

3. Do you think that because you aren't "able" to defend your own life you should not have a right to it?

The sacrificing of life and morality in exchange for "convenience" is self evident.

the 'life' of every person started long before their parents had sex.

their mother's eggs were already alive and existent when she was in her own mother's womb.

the father's sperm is also alive, and constantly reborn and regenerated and can live outside of the human body for days under the right conditions.

the trail of life started long before their parents were even born, the same recursive process of reproduction, all the way back to the microbial stages of life on our planet, maybe even further back than that.

all life is a sacred extenuation of all other life and abortionists are pragmatic murderers.

Sperms and eggs don't have the full set of human DNA.
The first time the full set of human DNA is assembled is at CONCEPTION.

It's the only logical point to start human life from. Everything else is too vague.

t. scientist

Our entire society is built on the idea that it does.

you mean without the woman's consent? murder at any stage if so. of course would be hard to prove that was your intent, unless you're a fucking moron.

it began a few million years ago with the homo branch and the modern version, homo sapiens sapiens, is thought to be a couple of thousand years old

the whole "beginning of life for an idividual" as you put it is a nonsensical ideology based solely on humans perception of morality and intrinsic value of individuals

the question you want answers to is actually "when should i start giving a fuck about human life" and the short and simple answer is "you can't determine it because it's the answer to a flawed question stemming from a flawed moral system"

if you try to ascribe the moment it becomes valuable to some point there will always be a perfectly valid counterpoint to it since you are using a personal independently developed system of values to analyze a naturally occurring continuous phenomenon

the best you can do in situations like this is think of it in absolutes... it either matters ALWAYS or NEVER

I personally choose never because the whole "god given right to live" followed by the millions of deaths in the name of god never made any sense and no other analysis pointed to the existence of such a right

the amount of mental gymnastics that women pull to convince themselves that murdering their unborn child is not murder never fails to amuse me.

im pro abortion btw, the vast majority of people who get them are the types of people I'd rather have eliminated from the gene pool.

Wrong on death certificate for heart stopping. Death is only considered after brain death. Heart failure is averted numerous times a day.

Doesn't matter.
Abusing abortions as a nother way of contraceptions should only be permitted for non whites

digits say it begins before conception

>The notion that at conception or fertilization you have a person is preposterous.

That's what a person starts as.

Nothing else but that turns into a person, and it never turns into anything else except for a person, and I don't understand why it's preposterous to say that it's not alive and not human and not a distinct entity that is forming itself from biological scratch, like we all did and all do as long as we live, but you say, "oh, it's tiny and it can't drive a car, kill it, kill it, kill it!!!"

I mean fuck, just call it murder and say you're pro-murder and you think murder laws are way too fuckin' strict and just call it what it is, and quit pretending you don't just want to kill all humans because you hate your own life.

Conception
Not that it matters

Life is not important regardless of age

Democrats don't say it begins at birth.
They say it is valid until the end of the second trimester before the brain starts to essentially perceive stimuli.

You are never going to get a good debate if you set the goalposts wherever your bias tells you to.

If a woman can opt out of pregnancy can a man opt out of child support if he wanted the abortion and she didn't?

If a fetus is just a clump of cells is it an abortion any different from taking a shit?

If it's her body her choice does she get to circumcise her newborn son? What about his body his choice?

So many ways to shut down these fucking roastie whores.

That's some of the dumbest crap I've heard. People have heart transplants; if they have no heart, are they dead? No!

You are simply preventing someone's right to life and a future like ours.

who cares when """life""" begins

all that matters is when a human is old enough to choose their gender which is around 15-24 months old

This

Life exists upon the first cells of the human, but at that point it isn't human life, but a cluster of living cells

Digits confirm. I'd hate for my gf to get an abortion but goddamn I love how many blacks get em

thats not true, they say its ok to kill it after its born because they wouldnt survive on their own

Bump

>If a woman can opt out of pregnancy can a man opt out of child support if he wanted the abortion and she didn't?
he can opt out by not dropping is load in her

>If a fetus is just a clump of cells is it an abortion any different from taking a shit?
nope

>If it's her body her choice does she get to circumcise her newborn son? What about his body his choice?
parents make many medical decisions for their kids.

>No mind, no person.
TOO VAGUE. When does the mind form? Because it sure as hell isn't at birth. MAYBE 2 years old.

LIFE BEGINS AT CONCEPTION.

you are a retard

the very first definite and unique organism emerges at conception. at conception, most of your personality is determined, your IQ, your looks, and even your probable cause of death.

To say with a straight face that this is not the most objective definition of when a unique life form starts is absurd

I'm pro-abortion - Wouldn't want one but understand in some circumstances and pre 12 weeks
And I wouldn't even argue conception is the beginning of human life as being absurd. What the fuck is she on about??

if you think the cell produced after conception is comparable to skin cells you are a fucking idiot.

t. Bill Nye

babies don't breathe in the womb

Whenever self awareness begins...
That's what sets us apart from other animals.

Am I wrong in this reasoning?

>sperm fertilizes an egg, forms a zygote
>zygote has a unique genome which neither the mother or father has, making it a separate living being
>the genome is unique and is human

therefore it's a living human.

it doesn't FUCKING MATTER

body autonomy means I can evict whatever parasite I want from my body. Fuck you and fuck both sides of this stupid fuck off debate.

i curse everyone who posted in this thread for anything short of 100% body autonomy a very long and painful run of throat cancer.

there is no reply to fix this curse. suck dicks.

>ban / deprive of state financing abortion
>huge amount of blacks arrive since most abortions are from them

>allow abortion
>have to pay for it

Which is Sup Forums's choice?

It's not a human, it's a zygote

Neither. The true red pill is at about 6 months of age.

Infanticide was a legitimate method of birth control for most of human history. Babies don't have souls.

Life liberty and the pursuit of happiness faggot. Why do you think its still an issue, and they have to label it "womens rights" to keep propagating it. The whole movement is based on a lie and can come swinging in the opposite direction at any time when it collapses.

Birth begins at conception.
These women that killed their babies need to repent.

>zygote
zygote is a diploid cell resulting from the fertilization of an egg by a sperm

in other words, it has the 48 human chromosomes to make it a human and from there it starts to replicate

Good points. Don't cum in sluts if you don't want to deal with babies, obviously. Comparing abortion and circucision, I believe in medical emergencies they can be necessary to save life or prevent harm.

if blacks stop murdering their kids maybe their women wouldn't be such whores. then maybe they will think twice about who to fuck. then maybe she can wait until she finds someone that wants to stick with a good job. then maybe her children will have a father. then maybe the kids wouldnt turn to gangs for paternal figures. then maybe the nigglets might be actual productive members of society

When you decide to keep the baby or not.

lol roastie with multiple abortions spotted.

Their ghosts are haunting you just ask /x/.

The cut off point is necessarily arbitrary.

The notion that human life begins at birth is absurd. Clearly, life doesn't begin until 18.

Thanks doc

then that would mean you could kill them even after birth

>parasite
I support abortion but you are also a parasite.

No it's not. Human life begins at conception.

you are trying waaaaaay to hard
bait is supposed to be subtle

>maybe niggers will spontaneously stop being subhumans

Nah man.

...

>womens feeling dictate whether its murder or not
Yeah, you should go back to plebbit you fucking cancerous shit

Is that what your leaders really think? I see a lot of virtue signaling in congress all for the sake of keeping their seats. Their views are not really translated into action and it's easy to know they are full of shit when their own compatriots are treated like shit or they condone the killing of people abroad.

This is public education funds at work folks.

Burgers can't even tell a zygote from a a skin cell.

zygote is a diploid cell resulting from the fertilization of an egg by a sperm

It is distinctly human and meets all biological classifications for life. Therefore Human Life.

Why? Epigenetics only acts on existing genetic code.

At what point the blue starts?

Well yes, that is "life"

But is it a person? Is terminating it a homicide?

>using logic that litterally implicates masturbation as a sort of personal holocaust.

The air is thin for you on top of that high horse.

1. I would not exist and thus no concept of me ever was in order to regret this.

2. See 1

3. Depends if "I" existed yet. The zygote that became me did at one point. But when?

No that isn't how declaring death works nor is the heartbeat a person. Heart transplants are a thing.

The heartbeat is just an indirect litmus test. If someone's heart stopped beating for long enough, and wasn't breathing for long enough, their brain would have died from oxygen deprivation.

And before that it was a sperm and egg. We can go full black science man and trace the very atoms of my being to stars that died billions of years ago.

But something else has to make it distinct as a persom as opposed to merely human organic processes.

Yes its alive but its not a person yet. The fact that it likely will be a person if not prevented is just circular. I wasn't me yet but I will be eventually therefore I am already me?

>too vague

I didn't say it was dowm to the second.

There is a grey area and reasonable prudence puts the dividing line at the begining of that grey area until we learn more about the mind.

Before any brain activity, no person.
Some activity, could be a person.
What is enough? I don't know.

Not an argument.

The premise of "It will be a person eventually so might as well treat it like one now" is not self justifying.

Hair isn't okay to cut because it wont eventually become a person. It is oksy because at that moment it isn't a person.

The stretch to say conception is a person because it technically has human dna is more like Bill Nyes stretch claim that sex is a spectrum becayse TrysomnyX isnt XY or XX.

A zygote is a parasite, a fetus is a human.

>he can opt out by not dropping is load in her

By this same logic a woman can opt out by not spreading her fucking legs.

It'd say it undeniably starts when the baby is able to survive outside of the womb. The tech level of a society can change that because of advances in technology and science allowing more and more earlier born babies to survive. However societies' views of when a life begins has varied over time. Some primitive folks thought it was only after a few weeks that a baby was truly a human bean, some felt it started at conception. It's a "Social construct" or whatever the buzzword is but so is human rights and a lot of other things we value.

So maybe change his point to be "when a baby can be brain dead is when it is dead?"

Also remember everyone that abortion is why, along with gang violence and drugs, that our black population has remained almost perfectly constant.

We'd have SIXTEEN MILLION more blacks if not for abortion.

Abortions happen all the time in nature. Not enough food? Some of the herd is stillborn or aborted. No source of water? Abortion.

Its the same shit for people %90 of the time. Not enough money, would have to work two jobs and be a shitty single mother anyhow. I'd rather the street run with abortion fluid than them be born to single mothers anyhow.

>Says it's a good thread
>Decides to make a completely unrelated sub thread

Holy Fuck, if that king sized mole gets any bigger it'll eat her entire face !
REEEEEEEEE

>all humans start out as parasites
we all have a debt to pay

lol do you have any lateral reasoning ability?

Can a baby survive on its own without the parents?

It's 100% a parasite. It can't even stand up, has no teeth, and is designed to CRY to alert that it needs HELP from OTHERS.

Simple answer: it begins at the earliest recorded primature birth on record, and changes to reflect that.

You make an excellent point, too often the reason why a woman wants an abortion isn't brought up.

...

Two wrongs don't make a right even when they cancel out.

If you want less blacks just deport them.

abortions are immoral.

sterilization is the answer. any woman who gets even 1 abortion? sterilize her during the abortion procedure and the father(if he can be found)

abortion should be illegal, but it should be an option for legit rape victims or a child that has a very low % of actually living from some weird disease.

pic related is why it should be illegal. you decided to have sex, got pregnant and want to kill a perfectly fine child just because you don't want to take responsibility? yeah fuck you, you deserve the 18 years of slaving.