Communism General

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Other urls found in this thread:

marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1847/11/prin-com.htm
marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1848/communist-manifesto/
marxists.org/reference/archive/stalin/works/1938/09.htm
marxists.org/archive/marx/works/sw/
marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/sw/
marxists.org/reference/archive/stalin/works/decades-index.htm
marxists.org/reference/archive/mao/selected-works/
marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1884/origin-family/
marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1914/mar/11.htm
youtu.be/cBN-tARHNts
twitter.com/SFWRedditImages

DONT TREAD ON ME
RRRREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

Hello Comrades. This general is for the discussion of Marxism-Leninism, the ideology of revolutionary socialism and communism.

Communism is the next stage of humanity following the capitalist stage.

What exactly is communism according to Marxist-Leninists:

>Communism is a stage of society in which the productive infrastructure is socially owned, and goods are produced not in order to sell for profit, but in order to meet a social need.
>Communism in it's full form is a stateless, classless society that follows the maxim "From each according to their ability, to each according to their need."
>To achieve such a society Marxism-Leninism teaches us that we must replace the capitalist state, which is controlled by the capitalist class, by a socialist state, which is controlled by the working class. Then, a period of class struggle follows in which the capitalist class is liquidated by the working class. When the capitalist class has been completely vanquished, there will be only one class, the working class, and eventually the functions of the state will become indistinguishable from the functions of the society as a whole, and the state as such will 'wither away' as Marx said.
marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1847/11/prin-com.htm
marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1848/communist-manifesto/

ML uses a philosophy called dialectical materialism, see here:
marxists.org/reference/archive/stalin/works/1938/09.htm

It is recommended that you read some of the critical works of Marxism-Leninism so you can make an informed assessment of the ideology.

Resources:
marxists.org/archive/marx/works/sw/
marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/sw/
marxists.org/reference/archive/stalin/works/decades-index.htm
marxists.org/reference/archive/mao/selected-works/
marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1884/origin-family/
marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1914/mar/11.htm

Marxism is the antithesis to nature

Fuck this imma applaud to you with my fucking hands up, I'm not starting my fucking self. You fucking stupid bitch. This stupid fucking justice, our fucking righteous fucking nigger, Alex, is doing this shit. You fucking nigger. I swear to fucking god i'm gonna jumpcut Yo, everybody type in the chat "Alex is a stupid nigger". Just type in the chat "alex is a stupid nigger". Fuck him, fuck him.

No, Marxism is progress away from Feudalism, capitalism and Fascism that have kept us bogged down.

I guess we should just rape and murder as we please also. It's just muh human nature ;^)

Not human nature, nature itself. You admit evolution, yet you deny race

You tried this earlier today and I blew you fuckers out of the water.

Gluttons for punishment the lot of ya.

Wait a second. You're not Spainon.
Uh oh fresh meat.

Marxists don't deny race. NazBol, Strasserists and Juche supporters are welcome in this general.
Rapists and sex offenders and murders must be punished.

I find that Communism likes to pretend that humans will act like automatons

>Marxism
>Leninism
>compatible

The amount of infighting from you guys is laughable.

>To achieve such a society Marxism-Leninism teaches us that we must replace the capitalist state, which is controlled by the capitalist class, by a socialist state, which is controlled by the working class. Then, a period of class struggle follows in which the capitalist class is liquidated by the working class. When the capitalist class has been completely vanquished, there will be only one class, the working class, and eventually the functions of the state will become indistinguishable from the functions of the society as a whole, and the state as such will 'wither away' as Marx said.

Mixing economy with government is a poor idea. You wander from the utopian ideals of socialism and communism and end up with a "cooperative" anarchist system of sorts.
The idea of it is that the economy changes, and society adapts accordingly on its own since the two affect each other but are not the same.
The economy of course shifting from a system where the land owners and industry control the passage of wealth and service rewards to a system where the land owners are considered themselves the employees of the whole and everyone cooperates with and utilizes the land according to function and need.

This is simply impossible due to the human condition, especially in a scarce world.
This utopia is envisioned for a time that humanity is no longer needing of scarcities, though Marx may have not said that outright.

Do note, the shift from feudalism to industrialism lasted for centuries. From industry to the next step in the progress of society, whatever it may be, could last for the same amount of time depending on how quickly our environment (not talking eco shit I mean conditions and surroundings) changes.

You know, pondering this while typing my views up has made me remember that this is a very complicated matter. And a lot of people like simplifying it. Notably your friends.

We do not say that.

We say that man should think for himself and follow communism instead of lining others' pockets!

It is very clearly implied.

>Juche
LOL

>Rapists and sex offenders and murders must be punished
And who would punish them in a communist society?

Well that's a highly simplistic view of the world.
How old are you?
I don't ask that as an insult/ad hominem you can be honest or lie I don't mind either way.

How the hell can you think for yourself in an authoritarian, collective society and at the same time wanting said society to be effective?

When every man is a member of the government then every man can take it into their own hands.

Greetings cumrags!

That's called Anarchism

How do you think for yourselves now? You join your comrades and look for an option.

So then there becomes a caste of law enforcers. As well as a caste of law makers.
Those who decide what is unhealthy for the whole, and those who expunge those they deem unhealthy for the whole however that may calculate.

You don't belong here.

Anarchists sometimes align themselves with Communist thinkers.

posting this here since my thread killed

>tfw slowly starting to realize 1970-1980s ish Soviet Union was probably the best system in the modern world for a lot of reasons.

The one thing that drove me away from communism is the retarded cuck shit you see from cultural marxist and the dumbass dogma chimpouts from antifa and all other stupid shit between them. But the economic situation of it all, plus Marxes criticism of capitalism, which is reaching its breaking point now, is really getting to me.

Antifa and the like are still obviously bourgeoisie faggots, but on the other hand, the Alt-Right is the same thing, but racist. Thats the only real difference. And I think you guys will come to the same conclusion once you calm down from the purely emotional response to retarded open boarders (caused by international corporations) and start to rationally examine your own personal financial situation, as well as the one of your local community and country as a whole. Maybe this is what Strasserism was, but idk because I never really studied that.

It's not a caste. It's literally every man like bounty hunters. It may be a caste in individual town by town societies but they are treated the same as their community.

>comrades
Alright just stop using that word it makes you look like a LARPer

Autistic minds think alike

I think for myself. Not through the heads of long dead philosophers.

>Anarchists aligning themselves with collectivists
I've seen that. They are highly misguided.
Individualists (or Egoists for you edgy Stirner fans out there) attempting to bring about a society that requires pooling is plain silly.

The bounty hunters are then a class. They possess the role of hunting down the criminals. The criminals are a caste too. Though not elevated but lowered below the others.

>comrades
you mean cumrags

You're trying to steal the Sup Forums aesthetic and culture to be edgy, but don't have the testosterone or intellect to just be nazis.

This is incredibly cringey and you should probably be sown into a sack along with a poisonous snake, a cat and a monkey.

>when commies want to build an organic society, but can even grow organic crops

There is nothing wrong with using historical terms in context.
>I think for myself = I let my money line to pockets of others

I didn't know antifa controlled industry and land.
W-
Actually you know what that's probably true.
90% of Antifa are all rich white kids from the burbs.
Actually that's extremely true come to think of it.

>1970-1980s Soviet Union
>Best system in the modern world

Care to elaborate? I'm actually genuinely curious as to your thought process.

Okay so when I go to my next NatSoc rally we'll all wear armbands and shout" EIN VOLK, EIN REICH, EIN FUHRER," then heil hitler and nobody will think we're a bunch of autists in costume

As I said before, that's a highly simplistic view of the world and I want to know how old you are.

Speaking of lining the pockets of the bourgeois where do you purchase food?
Where do you purchase your clothes?
Where do you work?

Die.

kys commies

"Live what you preach" is the bane of Commies

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CHRISTIAN GENERAL FOR YOU ALL

STOP BEING APOSTATES, YOU ONLY HURT YOURSELVES

I absolutely hate this. As soon as you start to reach in and grab them they leave.

Here's a real wake up call for you /leftypol/ lads. Posting threads like these and dumping your prop and stale memes turns people away from your ideas.
That's the secret to Sup Forums and why the JIDF and Reddit invasions never worked.
It's not because we're a "counter culture". It's just we and even newfags can tell when someone's pushing something like there's something wrong with it and it needs to be painted up and piggy-back samefagged and everything else. And we hate ads.

You work alongside your town and community. it is all for one and one for all. Your friends and community make your clothes and make your food. Think of it like the native americans.

>Care to elaborate?

8 hour work day for 5 days a week
pretty much guaranteed employment
classesless society (on paper at least)
highly literate/good education
white collar people forced to harvest crops once a year to drive home this fact
and consumer goods are introduced while the Stalin like pruges were done with

Still was corrupted police state, but it did have its positives. A ~1970s soviet working class family was better off than a modern day western middle class one that slaves away all day. The 8 hour work day is crucial to this since you actually have time to spend with your family vs now when both parents spend pretty much all day every day at work and maybe get 2 hours of family time.

I was gone for four minutes. Calm the fuck down.

But that's really precisely why the USSR fell apart in the 80s. They began to westernize and lose their grip. The balance as far as you stated was fine but it was no longer even close to what it started as.

In fact I dare say at that point they were closer to NSDAP Germany. But NSDAP Germany's officials and military didn't venerate themselves above the general laborers/populace.

Explain to me why Communism is a good idea despite always having lead to the oppression of the people?

>Posting threads like these and dumping your prop and stale memes

Thats literally all stormfags/holocaust deniers/natsoc ect do.

It isn't

/thread

Tribes had leaders and warriors which were venerated and controlled affairs.
You're speaking of a role-ful classed society.

Looks like our shipment of helicopters is a tad too late for latest batch of "intellectuals."

Stop spreading the word of the semites. It is the opium of the masses.

The difference is those aren't forced.
And half the holocaust denial threads are started by people trying to convince everyone human soap and lampshades were a thing.


>stormfags
Welcome aboard /leftypol/. I don't know how long you've been here so far but you're in for some life changing internal struggles.

idk man if the Jews hated Jesus he must've been a chill dude despite his own jewishness

Are you not pious of the words of Lenin and Marx?

Prove the Holocaust to me. Prove that 6 million jews and 5 million non-jews died.

I'd say this isn't the thread for that but fuck it anything goes.

Going to predict a
>JUST GOOGLE IT
response similar to when you corner a flat earther or "Moon landing was filmed" individual.
But they aren't comparable I mean neither of those are taught to the kids from birth as truth.

...

This is the thread for retards so I'm making a retard try to prove something that didn't happen to me.

>inb4 one of them brings up the Paris Commune and contends that it's communist because what has succeeded is mine and what has not is yours

Only 5 million civies died? Im pretty doubtful of that, considering famines.

He's not a retard he's probably 15 years old and confused.
Doesn't help when /leftypol/'s in-house 30+ y/o basement NEETs try to recruit people as young as him and younger with the allure of wealth and solutions to woes.

If Marx, Lenin, any of the others were alive and saw /leftypol/. They'd flip their shit.

Asked for proof, not speculation
11 mil total is the current claim

Official claim is 11 million but I can't give you a solid citation anymore, the USHMM doesn't have that plastered on their front page just "6 million of the people killed were Jewish".

>Hitler didn't venerate himself
>literally forced the entire nation to chant "Heil Hitler" and to die for him in his aggressive wars that would have never happened had Rohm been the leader

That was communism though as it followed the basic communist structure.

>In fact I dare say at that point they were closer to NSDAP Germany.

Not even a little bit. Nazi Germany was literally using slaves in their industry. Unions were banned and replaced with a state run super union which was ruled over by the same bureaucrats who were buddy buddy with the industry owners, and their right to protest or strike was done away with completely. Workers had no voice in the Third Reich and were completely dependent on the state. There was also no personal career path, both do to strict gender roles and a very class based career path set up by the state since birth. If you were poor, you go work in a factory or go be a grunt on the front lines. Are you from a rich family? You go get a good education or become some officer.

So look at your situation now. If you are from a rich family, you probably would have done well under Hitler. But if you arent, then you would have worked your fingers to the bone every day or get drafted to starve and freeze in Stalingrad.

They all willingly did that.
If you didn't like his speech you wouldn't go you idiot. It's like being suspicious that at a trump rally everyone claps

>Think of it like the native americans.
Living like savages in tribes because high social trust can't be maintained in interconnected groups of over a few dozen people.

All communism is based on a romanticized view of human nature.

You have clearly never studied the economics of the Nazis.

Except the ones put into concentration and death camps?

>think of it like the native americans
Native americans killed each other more often than whites killed native americans.

Lol there were no death camps, it was a Soviet lie

I can say the same thing to your gulags

>forced the entire nation to chant "Heil Hitler"
That was a social phenomenon. If it had been Rohm the chant would have been 'heil Rohm'.
He himself only thought himself as and acted as the leader. No imposing. His only personal wealth was amassed due to his book whether you want to believe that or not.

>aggressive wars
Invading Poland set off the defense pact. And the Soviets had promised to invade at the same time to confuse the allies and cause them to not honor it. The Soviets ended up invading 11 days after, and the allies got confused and didn't declare war on the Soviets. Mostly due to the failure of France's defenses.
And don't forget Sealion was canned mostly because the Germans didn't want to occupy Britain. Huge mistake especially before preemptively attacking the USSR but if they were as aggressive as you say they would have wiped Britain out completely.
Probably would have saved them too really.

Right before Stalin died, he was getting ready to gas the kikes. If we can continue his work, I'll flip to commie.

projecting

>11 mil total is the current claim
Did you miss the part where the Jews retracted the 5 million claim, and claimed Simon Wiesanthal made the whole thing up to increase the gentiles' interest in the holocaust? This happened just a couple of months ago.

All the first reports came from the Polish though. Youre so uneducated that you cannot even properly form a revisionist lie

And yet we never hear the end of MUH 6 MILLION do we?

I see three traitors and a gov't that would do anything to get it's country back. Not at all solid evidence.

>That was a social phenomenon. If it had been Rohm the chant would have been 'heil Rohm'.


wrong. It was a deliberate part of Hitlers rule. Its called the "Fuhrer Principle" and it was just a rule that said Hitler was the supreme authority of the party and whatever he says is the law and obey it without question. There was not even the image of unity like in the USSR. Hitler was the most authoritarian ruler in recent times. In fact, he made this rule up precisely because he was scared of the fact that Rohm and the working class brown shirts were starting to side with Strasser of him.

Also claiming Hitler wasnt aggressive, especially in terms of his foreign policy is just ridiculous

>I see three traitors and a gov't that would do anything to get it's country back.

Thats because youre a very stupid person who believes in internet conspiracy theories even after you get told the truth because you lack any cognative ability to find any reason for yourself.

Youre basically an ape trained to have a certain response due purely through emotional manipulation.

>Leadership structure
>communist

That's some highschool tier knowledge. Good thing I have hands to dispel it with.

>Using slaves in their industry
Not even sure where most of that lie comes from. Even people who are anti-Nazi I know don't agree with that.
If you mean how they used their PoWs in industrially deficient towns then THAT's some slavery to mention. But of course then that begs the question as to why they allegedly killed all those PoWs off.

>Unions were nationalized
Same thing as the Russians.

>Bureaucrats that were buddy buddy with industry owners
That's complete BS. The workers were included in the union and the industrialists were treated the same as anyone else.

>Right to protest/strike was taken away
Same with the USSR and other countries.

>Workers had no voice and were completely dependent on the state
Personal affairs, all collective bargains were through the union and due to the value of the pay they were awarded there wasn't much contest for the few years the empire existed.

>No personal career path
Unfounded

>strict gender roles
Same with the USSR and others. Gender roles are natural anyway why would you force women to work?

>Class based career path set up by the state since birth
Unfounded as well. Sounds more like what the Soviets would do.

>If you were poor you worked in a factory
If you are poor you live near work that your family has invested in and you take it up and the work is considered poor by millennials 100 years from the day.

>rich family? You get a good education or become some officer

That's hogwash. Officers were chosen in a technocratic manner.
You're describing the 2nd Empire and the Weimar.

You're retarded for thinking the Nazis even had a plan behind salutes. And yes, he was authoritarian and that's a good thing.

Hitler offered disarmament and peace multiple times in the 30's, the UK was the warmonger.

Prisoners, no matter how ridiculous the charge, ended up with labor details exactly like the Soviets fashioned.

>pseudo-economist spouts BS about the German economy the image

Well I've finally found the challenger haven't I?
Don't know why you can't copy paste that stuff though.
>mentions Hjalmar Schacht
Every time.
To be honest with you I've personally never addressed this oldie but I've read addresses to it by others. I need to go find it and give you a short and sweet if possible before the thread dies otherwise I'm a faggot.

>Fuehrer Principle
>people enforce a ritual upon themselves therefore the person the ritual is directed at is responsible
Brand new logical fallacy. Thank you!

>Hitler was the most authoritarian ruler in recent times
This isn't highschool level this is college level vox populi.

>He was scared of Rohm, Strasser, and the brownshirts
Are you perchance one of the "national bolshevists"?

>Claiming Hitler wasn't aggressive, especially in terms of his foreign policy is just ridiculous
Trying to sign an armistice with Britain doesn't sound very aggressive to me. What kind of tyrannical warmongerer reaches for peace and fights until his capital is conquered to the last breath in the same life?

Dirt >>>> Islamist >>>>> Commies

>You believe internet conspiracy theories
>I know the TRUTH
>You lack cognitive ability
>You're an ape
>Emotional logic

Sounds like someone who believes the holocaust.
Do tell me how NASA is covering up the GIANT DEATHSTAR THAT HAS KILLED 1,000,000 CAMBODIANS WITH MICROWAVES and that not believing it is appealing to emotional arguments in an illogical manner.

I'm borderline-sociopathic.

Adolf Hitler

Seven Nation Army

youtu.be/cBN-tARHNts

>after the war Polish government in exile claims they received transmissions by a PoW over radio (to resistance in Poland of course) that the Germans were killing prisoners
>Germans somehow never knew they had a radio
>Witold claimed he hid the radio and set it up in the bunks while the Germans weren't looking

Yeah, I'm the one falling for emotional appeals and not using cognitive skills.

>Report has specific amounts of people killed that don't match with other accounts
Not saying it isn't possible to fudge nor generalize numbers during recon but there are people who've drawn aliens. Doesn't mean I believe in aliens because I've seen the drawings.

Haven't read up on Gerstein, allow me some leave.

>>Germans somehow never knew they had a radio

How is this part of the story so impracticable to you that it negates the entire thing? Yeah, the underground army had illegal radios as well as guns, thats the whole point of them being an underground resistance force.

You really are grasping at straws in order to justify your illogical internet conspiracy theory based mainly on your poor education.

In the barracks of the heavily guarded labor oops I mean death camp.

Disproving fantastical conspiracy theories isn't grasping at straws.
>you're poorly educated
I had the same education as you. Unless you're rich and went to college for specialization.

Appeal to authority. You're implying that because you've falsely assumed he's "uneducated" that his views are invalid

I didn't put sage in the options field, come at me cunts

sage makes it so your post doesn't bump the thread jackass.

I know what sage does :^)