Would you support Basic Income as a policy? Even if did, and used it...

Would you support Basic Income as a policy? Even if did, and used it, do you feel like it would kill you or other peoples' motivation to work or achieve? What would be the effects of it?

no
no
Sage

how much? the minimum wage here is $672 per week, that comes to about 35k a year per person. If you give this to every person in this country once over it would cost $875,000,000,000. This is a small country of 25 million people. Our government is currently in debt to the tune of almost half a trillion dollars and rising.

How exactly will this work? Mind you this isnt a one off payment, next year another 875000000000 is going to be needed (assuming my math is correct, can anyone verify) and another 875000000000 the year after. Where does this money come from? What level of tax will you need to generate such revenue? Mind you our government currently collects a total of about 400billion in revenue per year so wed need a doubling of current rates and the assumption of people continuing to work without changing their habits to keep this ship afloat??

These discussion on basic income are all dandy until you ask someone how its to work and it just doesnt make sense, sounds like commie 2.0 electric jigaboo

Yes, if welfare were abolished and it only allowed people to survive as opposed to enjoying a decent life.

i actually support it, but i don't think it should give you more than you need for food so you can live with it but you'd need a job to get luxuries.

yes because i'm unemployed.

They'd be implying AI + automation + taxed businesses.

But you're completely right, won't work, never will work. Most countries are in extreme economic debt due to simply welfare and not having enough high-functioning members of society providing good taxes.

How would it work on a large scale? I think it'd be okay for a small rural nowhere town where there aren't as many people, but I think a city is out of the question.

define luxxuries
there is more then the numbers
it's a form of government control like an extention of jail. anyone jailed now needs to work forever after so more people will be compliant. you don't want to lose your benafits.
this is also an excuse for higher taxxes and more government control on industry

economic suicide.
now fuck off

nothing works in the city.
to many people makes you invisable

>What would be the effects of it?

This is another aspect i dont understand. What exactly will happen to people once they no longer need to hunt to survive? Why would anyone turn up tomorrow to scrub the toilets if they can pay their bills? What reason do i have to clean sewer pipes when i can go eat and watch netflix all day?

>more money
Youd have to be offering a fair amount to lull someone out of such comfort. to offer that amount i imagine your products and service would change to reflect this new cost of doing business wouldnt it? would that just shift the cost of all things up rendering your basic income useless now? Im not a well educated man in this field so i can probably sound a fool right about now but if anyone please could explain this it would be nice

>AI
this seems to be the holy grail onto which this whole thing rests

amen. A government that has the power to give you all you need has the power to take it all away

Basic income would likely be lower than minimum wage or else it would kill any incentive to work. Not only that, but Australia's GDP per capita and median income are higher than that, especially when you account for the lowered number as opposed to minimum wage, so it isn't beyond the realm of possibility to pursue such a policy.
> What tax will need to be collected to generate such revenue
I'm assuming Australia already has welfare government mechanisms, no? You'd likely end up saving money on spending by getting rid of most of the management, middlemen, and testing, etc. by just sticking to one simple and easy to implement basic income.

confiscate the wealth of any amount over one million. problem solved. of course the jooz would holler quite loudly.

UBI is just going to be something the elite will institute to prevent the masses from chimping out and triggering world war 3 so they can eventually have a sustainable ecologically sound techno utopia in a few generations.

this incourages higher spending and lazyness.
jew layer who makes 1 mill a week?
ok, just find a way to spend.
one week of work one week spending it.
just don't open factories.
keep it all liquidable.
don't invest because after it grows to x amount you lose it all.

>do you feel like it would kill you or other peoples' motivation to work or achieve?
That's not a "motivation to work". That's a forcing to work, wage slavery.
It's only for good if basic income removes the need of low-paid, humiliating work

more amazon thickness

>You'd likely end up saving money on spending by getting rid of most of the management, middlemen, and testing, etc. by just sticking to one simple and easy to implement basic income.

We spent 154 billion last year on welfare. Unless the bloated bureaucracy needed to administer 154billion is in the range of another 400 billion how can this work? Even if you cut the amount youre to give in half it is now 450billion, still higher than the entire revenue of the australian government. Even if we cut out things like defence health education etc every cent earnned wont be enough to pay for it

yes.
government control.
not an act of kindness

>give jamal and tyrese basic income
>they spend it on pot and iphones
>their children still go hungry and get no education
>need mo money for dem programz

giving free shit never ever solves anything

> Capped discrete 100% income tax at 1 million autistically and arbitrarily which will greatly discourage and decrease productivity among the wealthiest which injects the rest of the economy with productivity and wealth
> Not using something more sane like a continuous wealth tax or land value tax
> Wonder why everything goes to shit

yes but the price is government control.
you exchange one master (mother nature) for another (government).

Also poor people are usually poor because they're lazy and are terrible with money.

If you're living in a first world country there's literally no excuse for not being able to sustain yourself.

No. I would not.
But as I own my house and a nice car I would probably milk that system while consulting for fun (cashies of course).

some problems can't be fixxed, reguardless of how much cash you throw at it

>UBI

Lol you wont be owning that shit for long comrade I'll tell you that

we are coming to sieze the means of shitposting comrad

Doesn't matter. No issue will ever be settled as long as the idea of

>if only we had thrown just $___ more at it and it would've worked

Hangs around. It's why we'll be implementing shit idea after shit idea forever

>What would be the effects of it?

To further subsidize shiftless blacks using the labor of whites.

>give government total control of your income
>it now becomes the sole provider of food clothing and shelter to its whole population

Well gee wizz, what could go wrong

I don't know what would happen.
I would like to find out. It'd be interesting if one state in the USA tried it, for example, and then after 5, 10 years we look at the data and decide if it works or not.
Or, try slightly different basic income programs in a a couple different states (and maybe a state or two with no welfare, social security etc. of any kind)

At least we don't need to think how to create a lot of workplaces out of nothing just for the sake to keep niggers not dying from starvation.

some problems can be solved, if x is under funded.
other problems are just a mess and throwing more money at it won't fixx it.
>education
>american military industrial complex (welfare for american engineers)
>the american auto industry
>niggers

look up the white mouse utopia expirament.
WARNING: an extremely depressing red pill

>what is federalism

I wish your federal government would fuck off back to its small role. The United States was a perfect experiment of different states with different ideas and cultures. You have high tax California losing people while low tax Texas receives them. You have Vermont trying out single payer health carethen scrapping it. All these different states doing their own thing so all others can look over their fence and see what works and what doesn't, what road to travel and which to never go near is what America should be more like.

Kys, commie faggot.

>keep niggers not dying from starvation.

What makes you think that is a good goal?

But that's the thing, lazy poor niggers act like getting out of poverty is some huge difficult feat, when it fucking isn't.

I live in fucking Romania and even here I can't imagine a scenario where I wouldn't be able to provide for myself basic food and shelter. Like unless you're literally living in some African shithole and drinking out of cow's asses sustain yourself is not that hard of a job.

The problem is that for these lazy poor fuckers putting bread on the table isn't enough. They want cars, they want TVs, they want phones and all sorts of other useless shit that is just luxury.

It always makes me fucking rage when I see some faggot smoking cigs and driving a car and hear him say he doesn't have money for rent or to pay his bills.

When I get a sum of money my first thought is always paying for the bare necessities and only after that think if I have any left for luxury spending.

we just need to subsidize abortion for minority women and make it cool and trendy
abortion has killed in america 15 million blacks and counting.

I imagine it would just turn the entire nation into the kind of people who sit about doing fuck all anything on welfare (eg most of Sup Forums)

however since automation is going to steal everyones jobs in the next 10 years everyone will probably be doing that anyway so might as well go full commie so everyone can still buy their daily burgers

>mouse utopia expirament

>one experiment
>never repeated again
>it's fucking mice

Please. It's unrelated

How about people who want to sit around and do nothing pay for it themselves.

have you seen it?

Well we do/did, it's Republicans that want to defund Planned Parenthood which overwhelmingly targest poor minorities.

Prices would rise until basic income provides far less than basic needs.

UBI is wrong because it relies on theft and the threat of violence.

but sven i want to be femanist artist using me mentral blood for smearing republican politicians who oppose abortion as an act of art

wtf? i love femanists now

It needs to be a lot lower than mimimum wage for the simple fact that you work around 40 hours a week while in welfare you don't. The time you spend working means a lot, and parasites in general would like to subsist on bare minimum without doing as little as 1 hour of work.

BBBBBRRRRAAAAAAPPPPPPPP

First they came for the Shitposters, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Shitposter ;^)))

Then they came for the Bantz, and I did not speak out—
Because I just post that shit on Sup Forums

Then they came for me—but I was already dead. Fucking Sydney Funnelwebs.

I'm guess you don't want to meet a pack of hungry niggers in dark night.

The problem is that you can't create many low skilled workplaces from nothing. No workplaces = no money = no education = even more unskilled niggers = even more poverty and crimes. That's an economy deadlock.

at first the came for the racists
so we moved to infinty boards

thats only a problem if you are unarmed.
otherwise it's an excuse

True, really IMO the idea of Basic Income should be used more as a supplement or a type of insurance to be used between jobs rather than just as a substitute for a job and the money that comes from it. People that live off of it should be shamed and the amount of money people should receive from it should be very little, shit compared to a job and possibly not even enough to make it by independently without some other source of revenue coming in.

Do you think everyone is Isaac Newton and by redistributing the wealth full commie style, everyone just starts becoming productive?

Intelligent people, truly intelligent people, are INCREDIBLY RARE. You don't stifle these people to support mouthbreathers who can't read if you want civilization to continue existing.

I see you're beginning to blend in...

>next year another 875000000000 is going to be needed (assuming my math is correct, can anyone verify) and another 875000000000 the year after.

Dumb people/r-selected people turn all their resources into children so within a few years of doing this, those costs would start spinning out of control rapidly.

Think about it, did feeding niggers in Africa end hunger there or did it create more niggers?

Universal Basic Income means everything belongs to the state. There is no ownership other than the state's.

Not a very good plan, giving everyone £150 a week would cost roughly double of all social benefits (include state pensions) already existing. Not to mention the fact that some people need more than £150 from the gov. a week to survive so it will cost even more on top of that. The additional taxes needed to pay for this will force people out of low skill jobs, will make getting a job harder and they will get used to not having a job and most likely never work again.

This, you do not feed r-breeders. Biggest mistake as they will focus on procreating as all their needs are met instead of waiting until you have enough resources gathered, in which during those times, people will die due to conditions beyond their control.

Never give 1st world solutions to 3rd world problems as they only result in a far greater dilemma.

>would kill you or other peoples' motivation to work or achieve
pretty much, it would kill major cities and suburbs overnight.
people would move away to cheap cost of leveling areas to be left alone.

There would be no taxes. Everything belongs to the state and gets distributed through the state. No more wages, no more ownership. You are assigned a house, a job and are given an income.

This is without population growth taken into account. If we follow trends from the welfare state expansion or from foreign aid we're going to have the proliferation of huge subsets of society that are going to be raised in a similar manner or worse than those raised by during the initial welfare states destruction of the family unit.

The run on effects this has on the fabric of society are never discussed. The abandonment of children by parents who know the state will provide for them. The lack of work ethic. All these things are on the other side of the absurdly impossible math needed to make this work somehow.

I should have stated earlier that not everybody is going to either apply for Basic Income, or it won't be completely universal and there will be some restrictions attached. People with jobs likely won't be able to collect it, and people below the age of 18 or whatever is selected as the age of adulthood won't. So this drastically reduces the numbers in your calculations accounting for everybody because you aren't paying for literally everybody, just a small subset of the population.

Yeah, it would be completely unsustainable in the long run. It shall only lead to the ruin of society.

now THAT if it's not photoshopped, is a fucking awesome body.

like diamond rareness

if she has ass, that girl will never have to work in her life.

Someone will take care of her

And in the end the communists have slipped through once more but this time under the guise of UBI. They got close with Democratic socialism, it seemed like a real winner but UBI has proven itself to be the one who kicks the door down

UBI is a spook.

Kek

From what I understand of UBI, through the teachings of Alexander Gordon Jahans and left wing autists on yidbook it is just giving everyone X amount of cash a week.
Thats not UBI then, thats a benfit system similar to what we have at the moment. UBI, by definition is giving everyone regardless of employment X amount of cash per week.

So what differentiates this whole thing from unemployment benefits currently going around in most countries? I can't get it when I'm working, you don't give it to kids. You're advocating for UBI and trying to make it work and in the end just returning back to what we have now; ever expanding welfare states that are slowly crippling our nations

Speaking from personal experience, I had a cousin who fell on bad times, but he came from a poor family to begin with. I gave him just enough to get by, but he knew where that money came from, and subsequently felt shame and responsibility that drove him to get out of the slump he was in. It is insanely different when you get money out of an unknown source, because you don't feel anything related to it. Now because most people tend to follow the path of least resistance, this becomes more of a problem, because for them it's essentially free money, while for the society is basically like eating at mcdonalds, you develop fat which makes you unable to do anything, and when you realize you re in shit, it's already too late.

What the fugg

It's a UNIVERSAL basic income. Meaning it's universal. For everyone. To even fund it for a couple of years, you'd need to seize all property from everyone and force everyone to keep working their jobs while forcing the youth to study for jobs without a reward for working hard.

> almost half a trillion
Lol get on my level m8

I wasn't advocating for Universal Basic Income, just Basic Income, I'm not completely well versed in the subject or sure there's a difference but it seems much different from giving everybody money vs. just giving the unemployed money, and it's mostly similar to what we have but we remove the different programs, the different government agencies, most of the bureaucracy, etc. in favor of just one department or so and one payment.
See above, it's similar, but the difference or idea is getting rid of multiple departments and agencies, a lot of the bureaucracy, saving money while still doing the job, etc. by just simply consolidating much of it into one payment that does the job of the rest.

I think he's joking about the eventual take over of private property that will come with an all powerful state that holds life and death in its hands and determines whether it feeds you. The expansion of such a state leading to eventual corruption and abuse of power and why you should never allow a single entity to control such a large aspect of anything let alone people's lives.

It call unemployment and we already have it.

>you are like little babby
>watch dis
>DEBNT

So what you're saying is simply streamline the current welfare system and remove have the bureaucracy? You're on the wrong end of the wrong thread if that is the case lol.

It's already hard to live off of minimum wage, anything far below that is just not really feasible as a living wage.

See , why have unemployment and multiple programs if we could just simply consolidate them and reduce administrative and bureaucratic overhead?

I support it.
Nowadays europeans are being replaced with other races that work for less and accept living in poorer condition than we do, especially blue collar workers, but also certain white collar ones (programming being one of the primary examples).

People that are against it probably think that human need the fear of poverty to achieve and progress in the field.
This a big lie, and only those that never leave their room would think in such a way.
Nowadays youth does not care that engineers make more money than liberal arts student and they decide to pursue that (poor) career choice anyways simply because they like it.

At the same time people who love science pursue a career in a scientific field anyway without worrying of the difficulties, some people are just born to be smarter (in certain fields) than others.

Mind you, a basic income would not work without severe change in our government administration.
For it to work you need to stop any other form of welfare, even those that we give to handicapped people, to gain enough money.

At the same time people on basic income need to be willing to do ANY job the government needs them to do, refusal to do so would mean losing the benefits.

At the same time the ones under basic income will be obliged to pursue education or to learn a job, refusal to comply would mean the losing of the benefits.

People also say that they don't want to get taxed and that's a reasonable point.
At the same though having a basic income as the only form of welfare would actually save us money.

People that think that poor people have no right to live a "livable" life with basic rights should also understand that according to their logic poor people have no duty to not kill them, torture them, rape their wives and daughters, and burn their dogs.

If you say that this is a dog eats dog world then be man enough to accept everything that comes with it.

I am of the idea that we should help each other to live in a better world

Correct, most people will go on the path of least resistance. When the path of least resistance drives you to a respectable job and healthy marriage, you have a healthy society. That is why before you could get easy sex only if you get married and earn your living through honest work, that didn't require much risk. Nowadays for cheap sex just go to a club, you get raped in divorce courts and honest work is outsourced.

Basic income sure, it's called joining the military and dying for the Jews.

We already have that then. That is still just a benefit system, not UBI. If you want to argue for a stronger benefit system, do not keep saying UBI.

It's not even that, if you're a black guy who wants to get out of poverty you basically have to cut off all ties with the people you know. If a nog sees another nog succeeding they try to pull him back down to there level. They would all rather each other live in complete poverty than have a few succeed.

because unemployment screws seasonal workers

So Stalinist Communism effectively is what you're suggesting. You should read the Gulag Archipelago.

What is the long term alternative? AI and automation will cripple the workforce. Sure you could tell all those people losing their jobs to go fuck themselves but with unemployment skyrocketing there will be more debt and society will stop working.

In Ontario, we'll have a pilot guaranteed basic income within three cities/areas throughout the province by the fall or winter. The payments will be $1300 per month for ordinary recipients and $1800 per month for the disabled. Amounts will decrease once a certain threshold of employment income is earned.

We'll see how this unfolds. I see no reasonable solution to the problem of automation and displacement, along with permanent unemployability, to a basic income.

Basic income is a meme. Another concept to give free money to the masses so they can mindlessly consume and be distracted from the fact that (((they))) have already acquired and concerntrated all the wealth in their hands, don't fall for the basic income jew.

No. It makes no sense.

No worky, no eaty. This isn't a mean policy, it's a smart policy.

But, I don't know how the economy is going to react to the levels of automation that we're expecting in the future. That could be a real disrupter.

THIS

>I see no reasonable solution to the problem of automation and displacement, along with permanent unemployability, to a basic income.

How about NOT funding dumb people who can't possibly survive in a high IQ society at the cost of people who have high IQs and high productivity.

Do you know how a computer works? Do you think it's a good idea to tax computer companies out of existence so we all get to make our own from scrap?

Liberal commie pipe dream of retarded redditors

>save us money

Could you quickly choose a small amount, an amount you think would be a nice tiny starting point for UBI. The multiply it by your population to determine how much it would cost you this year. Then after that if you would be so kind as to pull up your current welfare spending amounts (or last years) so we can compare?

While you're there you could prob even just take a quick peek at your governments total revenue

>At the same time people on basic income need to be willing to do ANY job the government needs them to do, refusal to do so would mean losing the benefits.

Wow this sounds wonderful, I wonder where this is going, maybe the Dutch bro in the thread can explain

sauce

As a neet im all for it.

Ive tried wageslavery and it sucked. The only people who like working are anomalies or those who were fortunate enough to get into a career they genuinely like.

As jobs become increasingly harder to get, government has to pick one, population control or UBI.

I'm halfway through, from your posts I had a feeling you knew the road to which this all leads. it's quite sad to see so many people advocate for the road to such a future